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New UAL Aircraft Order?  
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4780 posts, RR: 19
Posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 33070 times:

There are persistent rumours of a significant new Aircraft order comprising narrow and widebodys



Management is not letting any details out.



Any one have any info ?


The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
165 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTinosky From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 33042 times:

C-Series would be nice... dont think it will happen though.

Tinosky,


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8499 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 33039 times:
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Smisek is a Boeing guy, I would bet on Seattle unless Airbus is just giving them away.

User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9817 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 32912 times:

I would expect a very thorough analysis and sales campaign between the 737MAX and A320NEO is going on. For the interim, they are settled on the 737NG as they have about 20 737-900ERs scheduled for delivery this year.

What happens with the new fleet is up to Boeing and Airbus marketing teams. I could see it going either way. The airline works with both the A320 and 737NG. I think the best product on the best terms to fit their needs will win.

I really hope this doesn't turn into a flame war A vs B. CO had a strong history with Boeing and yes their former CEO is in charge, but the airline's management is a combination of both. The board is also a combination of both. The former UA showed an interest in finding the best product for their needs and was equally willing to go to both Boeing or Airbus. I would assume the same is still true, because I don't think a combined board, executive and management team is going to go away from logical plan of buying what their analysis shows as best for the company regardless of manufacturer towards what many bias supporters of one side of the other may think is best for them.

This is a really tough one to predict as it easily could go either way. Price, availability, operation costs, maintenance support, and other factors all play a role.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineDornier328JET From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32733 times:

I honestly would expect a split order. Unless this is a small order, my money would be on UA taking both the NEO and the MAX.

User currently offlinefleabyte From Brazil, joined Jan 2010, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32499 times:

I hear that UA/CAL have shifted some 737-800 to domestic and many ex TED A320 to Latin America, that is ominous for Boeing.

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20336 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32464 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
Smisek is a Boeing guy, I would bet on Seattle unless Airbus is just giving them away.

I thought that they just ordered a bunch of planes from both companies.

Smisek is not a dictator, he's a CEO. He has a lot of say, but it's not just his whim.

Frankly, if the order is large, neither A nor B will have the production capacity to fill it all, given the size of the new monstrosit...er...airline   so they will have to split the order. By the time you are ordering, say, 100 A320's, the advantages of economy of scale go rapidly diminish as the order goes to 200, 300, etc. It makes much more sense to split a fleet of, say, 300 aircraft than to split a fleet of 30.


User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5209 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32300 times:

Quoting fleabyte (Reply 5):
I hear that UA/CAL have shifted some 737-800 to domestic and many ex TED A320 to Latin America, that is ominous for Boeing.

Where do you see that - here in Houston its still 737 South...and in the forseeable future unless you see something on the schedules that we don't?



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32269 times:

Smiseck is a beancounting lawyer. Means he has no allegiance to anyone, thing or standard and will argue any point if the money's right.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26147 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32221 times:

Its actually no secret – prior to the merger United publically stated it was in the process of defining a narrow body order to replace the 757 fleet, and early Airbii.

With the imminent merger the review was put on hold, but picked back up late last year as manufacturers defined their new products.

So yes, there will certainly be an order forthcoming – now a larger one for the combined UACH.

Additionally prior to the merger – UA was also even looking at large props, so I would not be surprised for the carrier to wade into other forms of equipment as well potentially.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32189 times:

They need a lot :

1. A320 replacement (at this point, probably Max or Neo)
2. More 787s to replace 767s and to expand.
3. True 744 replacement (the 359 is far from that). A350-1000 is bare minimum for that.
4. Long-term solution to high capacity domestic flights.
5. Maybe something to replace to 762 (but nothing really suitable out there)


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32159 times:

Now the happy surprise would be a 777NG or 748 or A380 order thrown in the mix. I don't think 787s and A359s are going to cut it long term to replace all aircraft.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21582 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 32124 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 10):
5. Maybe something to replace to 762 (but nothing really suitable out there)

788s will do that. No other options.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1888 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 31947 times:
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788's replace 762's and there are only eight in the fleet now and will be gone soon.

UA has stated repeatedly the 359's are straight up replacements for the 744's. I don't know why folks keep theorizing otherwise when he's stated and restated that fact a number of times.

They'll likely split the order on the narrow bodies and be in the neighborhood of 200 frames with a flex mix of 73Max and 32NEO's. Given they are in the process of renovating their current Airbus fleet, expect the frames to be delivered starting in six or so years time. The CO 738's are relatively new and they are still taking 739ER's through this year or 2013.

For additional wide bodies, things get interesting. They have tons of 787's on order with options which could be a mix of any of the 787 variants. UA could be a launch customer for the 777MAX but given they are trying to tamp down capacity, its likely too big for what they want given their stated intention to take the 359's. The 388 is too big and I tend to doubt they'd be in the market for the 330. That leaves them doing the 777Max or increasing their orders on the 787 or 359.

I'd love to see them take the 748 and I'm sure Boeing would give them a terrific price but UA is trending away from quad jets.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 31793 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 13):
UA has stated repeatedly the 359's are straight up replacements for the 744's. I don't know why folks keep theorizing otherwise when he's stated and restated that fact a number of times.

Because replacing 744 with something 25% smaller is just leaving money on the table.

Not theorizing but hoping they'd do something more sensible.


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 31622 times:
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Quoting fleabyte (Reply 5):
I hear that UA/CAL have shifted some 737-800 to domestic and many ex TED A320 to Latin America, that is ominous for Boeing.

Are you thinking of the PMUA flights from LAX/SFO-MEX/SJD/PVR/CUN which are flown with A319/A320s? These are the only routes south of the border I know of that are flown with Airbus equipment (perhaps ORD/IAD-MEX/CUN/SJD?). I think we'll see these PMUA flights become 73Gs for commonality with PMCO's large existence in Mexico and Central America.

I think we'll see 739ERs continue to replace the older 757 girls on domestic, trans/midcon flying. Another order for more 788/789s to replace the older 763ERs as well as add new markets requiring more range but lower capacity.

Is the A319 a better perfoming a/c over the 737(G)? For the most part, we know the 73H has better performance over the A320s (on transcons at least).

I'd still like to see UA order the 77W to replace those senior 744s, but do know what has been conveyed in regards to the A359.


User currently offlineSplitterz From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 31172 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 15):
Are you thinking of the PMUA flights from LAX/SFO-MEX/SJD/PVR/CUN which are flown with A319/A320s? These are the only routes south of the border I know of that are flown with Airbus equipment (perhaps ORD/IAD-MEX/CUN/SJD?). I think we'll see these PMUA flights become 73Gs for commonality with PMCO's large existence in Mexico and Central America.

The now run EWR-SXM daily I believe on an A320.


User currently offlineBigB From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 615 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 31120 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 14):
Because replacing 744 with something 25% smaller is just leaving money on the table.

Not theorizing but hoping they'd do something more sensible.

You know this how?



ETSN Baber, USN
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9817 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 31048 times:

There are 16 a320s that are equipped for overwater flights and specifically for the Caribbean. The fact that they have a smaller F cabin makes perfect sense for them to be used there and put the 738s with live tv and more F seats on domestic routes. It says nothing about a future order.

I also don't know why people think smisek is so pro Boeing. He was CEO for five months prior to the merger. He has a legal and finicial background so i don't know where people get the idea that he is pro Boeing other than the fact Bethune was and hand picked smisek to be general counsel.

[Edited 2012-02-09 20:55:55]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently onlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 30372 times:

The CEOof Delta brought up a good point about why he's holding onto frames he has now and is squeezing every ounce of life out of them before he has to order more. What caught my attention was his comment about the VLA segment. I believe CO will adopt the same philosophy and go more towards twins, as far as widebodies are concerned.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=htt...AFQjCNEcyuWLcJQpx_DQ4Cd1KWNf7eSj3A


User currently onlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 30361 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 2):
Smisek is a Boeing guy, I would bet on Seattle unless Airbus is just giving them away.

He works for United, doesn't he?

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 8):
Smiseck is a beancounting lawyer. Means he has no allegiance to anyone, thing or standard and will argue any point if the money's right.

I hope you are right!  



SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4780 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 30017 times:

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 19):


The CEOof Delta brought up a good point about why he's holding onto frames he has now and is squeezing every ounce of life out of them before he has to order more. What caught my attention was his comment about the VLA segment. I believe CO will adopt the same philosophy and go more towards twins, as far as widebodies are concerned.

AA made a similar gamble by holding on to hundreds of MD80's far too long and that didn't work out too well.


While US airlines can't be replacing Airframes like SIA, they need to balance very carefully getting their money's worth out of an Aircraft while keeping ahead of ever increasing fuel prices with efficient new models.



A true VLA replacement for the B744 is still in the cards for UAL.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinewindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2334 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 28560 times:

Quoting fleabyte (Reply 5):
ominous for Boeing.

What do you mean by this?



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 27714 times:

Rumours. They'll say anything anyone wants them to, and Lord knows there are a lot of wanters on this site.

IF they are making an order, then I'd see the following.

A320NEO and 737MAX split order for NBs. Nothing smaller than A320/738 size.

777NG for widebody. Not to replace the A359s but to supplement them. 77W-size the perfect fit for their T/P ops, A359 the perfect fit for the widebody T/A stuff. Room to change where suitable. A359/77WNG the ideal pairing I think.

748i / A388 not a cat in hell's chance.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineSchweigend From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 637 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 27616 times:

Quoting fleabyte (Reply 5):
I hear that UA/CAL have shifted some 737-800 to domestic and many ex TED A320 to Latin America, that is ominous for Boeing.
Quoting windshear (Reply 22):
What do you mean by this?

I think he means that, while CO used to be all-Boeing, the new UA entity could re-up part of its narrowbody fleet with Airbus planes, now that they're discovering how good Airbus products are...ominous for Boeing, who now must compete harder for UA's business.

Let's see how the A321NEO and the 739MAX match up in the real world. UA obviously will need something to replace the 757, whether its the 739 or the 321. This will be a real contest. given how UA uses its 757s across the Atlantic.

Cloud-cuckoo talk now, I'd love to see UA order a dozen new 767-322ERs.


25 na : If UA wouldnt order 748I or A380 soon or in coming years, it would be a sign of surrender, a sign that the US airline industry doesnt belong to the to
26 columba : Agreed, airlines from all over the world Asia, Australia, Africa and Europe fly to the US using VLAs so US airlines should be able to fill them as we
27 CHRISBA777ER : No - thats nonsense. Sorry. It just means that they have crunched the numbers and found that low-CASM big twins make more sense for the frequency-dri
28 CHRISBA777ER : Nonsense. Only the MEG carriers buy planes to "keep up with the Joneses" - UAL doesnt have to keep up with anyone. They are massively strong at their
29 na : Didnt you understand? I said new 777s make no sense if you have ordered 787s (for the smaller part of the 777 market niche) and A350s (for the niche
30 Post contains images Daysleeper : I’d have thought they would do similar to AA, but given that they already have the 739 as a 752 replacement I’m not so sure. So with that in mind
31 PM : Utter nonsense. In the 1990s when I lived in Switzerland and my wife worked for Swissair an SR 747 pilot at a party told me that no airline without 7
32 JoeCanuck : Dead right. Airlines buy what will make them the most money...period. They really don't care what some consider their rankings to be. The PR folks mi
33 CHRISBA777ER : UACO have ordered 788s and A359s - new 77Ws or 77WNGs make a lot of sense as neither of the aforementioned aiframes are anything like as large or cap
34 Post contains images mikey72 : I want to see big shiny 748i's in UA livery. AA livery. DL livery..hell any American carrier. Fat chance. I would be amazed if the first American orde
35 Post contains images AAIL86 : US Airways, then??????
36 Candid76 : A big split narrowbody order along the lines of American is the most likely outcome in my view. Two reasons in particular, firstly there are plenty of
37 idlewildchild : Considering the US economy, UA being Chicago based and the politics of the day, we can be certain that they'll be strong political pressures to, at th
38 mogandoCI : Please list major global carriers who replaced 744s *directly* with planes smaller than 77W/346 and not going through financial hardship.
39 mikey72 : Yeah them too.
40 KC135TopBoom : Just how good are those A-32Xs? We don't know how UA compares the B-737NGs to the A-32Xs. The Airbus airplanes are older than most of the Boeing airp
41 mogandoCI : 350 seats is probably a low-J config ... the A359 is approx size of the 772, so a realistic configuration (say 40-50J) would bring the seat count clo
42 kgaiflyer : Whether that's true or not, United is not a privately-owned airline. Therefore, this will not be a one-man decision.
43 scouseflyer : Sorry to be a pedant but as I understand in the 1990s CO and NW both ordered the A340 but both orders were cancelled before delivery. Some others hav
44 Post contains links and images kgaiflyer : True. And Houston was once an Airbus townView Large View MediumPhoto © George W. Hamlin
45 STT757 : 14 787-9s, plus options.
46 Post contains images United1 : I think the 788 might be a little large to replace the 752s...while UA does use them on some trunk routes where the 788 could take over for them the
47 Stitch : On a few routes a few weeks or months out of the year, that is true. But for the rest of the time, you're either flying with empty seats or your disc
48 STT757 : I would love to see an order for additional Q400s, with the First class cabins and E+ they offer a nice product, and are competitive with RJs in term
49 mogandoCI : Isn't that an artificial bump in 359 numbers by chopping F and trimming J ? Is UA flying that many empty seats around? Anecdotally, SFO-HKG pricing i
50 Stitch : UA have not given a breakdown by class. But if they do reduce First Class and Business Class seating ratios, that would be because they can't sell th
51 KC135TopBoom : Thank you
52 mogandoCI : If that's the case then UA is about to abandon F service on their future flagship plane ? They can trim it and make it only 8F but I think it's still
53 Daysleeper : While I agree that the type of aircraft an airline operates doesn’t dictate it’s standing, I don’t entirely agree with the “Frequency” or
54 B6WNQX : Just thinking out loud... So many people think that they have to order something to replace the B744 with the same amount of seats. Now don't get me w
55 Stitch : UA have stated the will maintain a true and separate First Class product on certain core international routes (I figure at minimum it will be LHR, NR
56 mogandoCI : Don't forget ZRH, PEK, PVG, SIN, GRU. ICN/SYD is marginal relative to UA's network.
57 kgaiflyer : Surprisingly, many don't. For instance, New York is about the same distance from San Francisco as London is from Tehran. So if I live in San Francisc
58 kgaiflyer : I just did a quick-and-dirty check of the departure stats for Heathrow over on Wikipedia. In 2010, of the 30 biggest departure destinations from Heat
59 Roseflyer : Actually the 777s are not a legitimate object for a replacement order now. When the 787 & A350 order was made, options were taken out on both for
60 YULWinterSkies : 1. yes. 2. yes 3. see below 4. 787 + A320NEO combined is probably just fine 5. 787, and 6. the ex-UA 772 aren't getting younger, unless you already i
61 Post contains images cmf : Hmm, why would it be a surrender? From my comfy chair it looks like a different business plan. Careful there. VLAs are cheaper per seat. If you have
62 Daysleeper : As I said in my admittedly crude example, ignoring transit passengers, if there are 10,000 people in London wanting to go to New York, and 10,000 wan
63 mogandoCI : They can also achieve that wtih A350-1000 or 777NG. Compared to most Asian airlines, UA is not exactly in any position to command higher fares anyway
64 ER757 : Interesting reading. I really thought DL was a shoo-in to order 748's but the CEO was quite clear that isn't the case. Never thought the A380 was a p
65 pnwtraveler : A US airlines main concern is its current customers and the US market. If you read the Delta article way above in the thread you would see North Amer
66 cmf : How does this provide any insight to the viability of VLA?
67 SonomaFlyer : The economics on VLA break on the concentration of passengers to a particular hub. UA is not suited to the 388 or the 748 because they have eight dif
68 Post contains images united787 : Welcome to my very respected - respected user list I know you will have some people counter argue and say: well BA has LHR and MAD if you include IB;
69 kgaiflyer : From reply #67 "The economics on VLA break on the concentration of passengers to a particular hub. UA is not suited to the 388 or the 748 because the
70 GSPflyer : I really hope to see a 748i or at least 77W order. I am sure if AA has the need for a 77W, UA could fill one. I get the point you are trying to make,
71 cmf : Hang on there. Without passenger numbers there is no way to say if they should send an A380 every hour or a C182 once a day. I'm not saying that usin
72 fun2fly : We can debate the VLA's for US carriers all we want. No one here has the numbers. PAX vote: 5X LHR>EWR on 752's is better than 2x 388 as noted in o
73 davs5032 : The above responses have shifted heavily towards the wide-body portion of the fleet, so for the sake of jump-starting the narrow-body side of the conv
74 ML86 : Airbus has been marketing the A380 to UA and DL because the operating costs are slightly lower than the 744s, so austensibly any airline operating the
75 Post contains images Tdan : FIFY Airline 101. If NYC had one airport that was slot constrained, then we might see VLAs at US carriers. Completely unnecessary from US hub and spo
76 SonomaFlyer : I might be mistaken but I take from your reply that you are looking at the VLA issue from the opposite side of the equation. BA is a textbook example
77 CO787EWR : So we all agree that UA won't be getting anything larger then a 77W in the near future?
78 cmf : Copying a post and making it bold doesn't change that the conclusion had no relation to the facts presented. For the most part I buy that argument. I
79 fpetrutiu : I don't see a need for any VLA's for UA. There aren't many routes that can handle that capacity. I guess you could kill an EWR flight and route people
80 SonomaFlyer : I think we have to look at the U.S. airline industry as a whole. With price pressures and fuel costs, airlines are doing what they can to control cap
81 cmf : You should tell EK and BA. Not to mention that most frequency routes rarely use the smallest models. Finally we are using the right metrics. A 10 - 2
82 SonomaFlyer : These are the examples of VLA appropriate airlines: 1. One mega hub which; 2. Funnels all traffic and; 3. Piles those folks onto more VLAs to go on t
83 KC135TopBoom : What makes you think the A-350 will be the flagship of any airline, much less for UA?
84 ghifty : I'm compelled to believe that Smisek's gentlemen's agreement has its' perks. Sure, he might be willing to sleep with Airbus or Boeing. But he's alrea
85 Cerecl : Another factor pre-merger could be how willing Airbus was to act as a bargaining chip to get Boeing to lower their price. If Airbus believed it did n
86 cmf : They use VLA on high frequency routes, i.e. frequency and VLA do mix. They do have a different route structure but that means nothing. What matters i
87 Post contains links boilerla : What's funny is that this thread (as usual) as devolved into a 747 vs A380 flame war. But the original poster's topic, which has been substantiated pu
88 dbo861 : When you say "the scope issue is resolved" are you saying the C-Series would be operated by an Express carrier?
89 davs5032 : There wouldn't be a "scope issue" would there? If they did order the C-series, it would likely replace their A319/735/73G fleet with CS300's having t
90 boilerla : UA has no 100 seat jet, but right now may not have a pressing need for one, because UA's scope clause allows 70 seat planes to be flown by Express car
91 boilerla : They could, but I don't see them replacing the A319/73Gs with a CS order simply because there's not that many of them in the fleet, and it'd be a new
92 kiwiandrew : Actually, in OP's post he refers to both narrow and widebody aircraft. Although, I admit, everything else that I had heard/read suggested that UA is
93 UA772IAD : Since we are talking about W/B aircraft here, which will be purchased primarily for international operations, I think it is worth mentioning that the
94 BOACCunard : There are no PMCO domestic 752s.
95 flyhossd : There's nothing in either the current UA or CO pilot contract preventing U.C.H. from ordering and operating these airplanes. The "Scope" provisions s
96 Stitch : Even if each hub or international gateway has a single daily frequency to an overseas destination, that is still multiple total frequencies per day b
97 SonomaFlyer : I think this was my point better stated against new VLA's for UA. Looking at many of UA's "big" international destinations (LHR, FRA, NRT, HKG for ex
98 dfambro : This is less true than you think. I'm based on Boston and fly UA to multiple Asian destinations regularly. I've connected through ORD, SFO, and LAX,
99 avi8 : What about an order to replace their regional aircraft? Those old CRJ's (not all of them) and the ERJ's have a maximum of 10 years left. I know UA isn
100 boilerla : Oops, meant "757" (their 753s). They're fairly new but considering the tail end of the deliveries will be in 2020, anything is possible by then, espe
101 Post contains images planesntrains : I think the context of the statement made was that UA doesn't "need" to order a VLA as a way of proving they are a good airline. They have a business
102 UALWN : People seem to forget that VLAs are not good because they carry a lot of people: they are good because they do it cheaply. UA/CO may send 6 752s a day
103 planesntrains : Why do you say that "people seem to forget..."? Just because they have the cheapest CASM doesn't mean they make money. Or are you saying that's not t
104 IslandRob : I don't think it's a matter of forgetting. It's just that some people don't fully accept your premise. If I'm standing at a bus stop, I'd rather have
105 ghifty : I didn't mean to imply that Airbus wouldn't/hasn't put in a competitive bid. It'd be stupid for either the new UA, or Airbus, to plainly ignore each
106 SonomaFlyer : Using your EWR example, going from six flights to two may be able to do it cheaply on a CASM basis however: 1. They would need to lease out or sell t
107 Cerecl : Oh, it was me who implied that Airbus might not have brought their best deal to the table in the past. A bit like Ryanair's situation but maybe not a
108 ghifty : +1. I think this is why we have yet to see any US airline order VLAs. Yes, the US has a big population.. but it's spread out over 50 states which mak
109 Post contains images cmf : If those are all the parameters sure. But what if we add a few more parameters. Let's say work end at 16:30 and you have 500 people coming out at tha
110 SonomaFlyer : Another factor to consider (which was addressed in the thread talking about AF and LH) is the fact that it might be cheaper to maintain fully deprecia
111 JoeCanuck : Your 500 example assumes that all 500 want to go to the same place. If you opt for a vla, instead of smaller aircraft, what you lose is versatility.
112 nycdave : I think it'd be a bit shortsighted for the new UA to rule out widebodies in the near future. When the economy rebounds, they're going to want to add c
113 JoeCanuck : Nobody said they would never order wide bodies...just that they are focusing on narrow bodies first. Including 767's, 747's and 777's, they have over
114 UALWN : You may prefer that, but the bus company may prefer the opposite. And depending on whether we are talking about a bus to travel across town or a bus
115 cmf : Which is in line with the original scenario with one bus every 10 minutes. In reality there are multiple locations. And people come from multiple loc
116 planesntrains : Probably because it's like stating the obvious. It's pretty much accepted that the more seats you have, the lower your CASM. Were that all that matte
117 UALWN : It is not all that matters, but it is something that matters... a lot. I agree. But many airlines have indeed banged on Airbus door for the 380. Amon
118 fun2fly : Not too much mention of Cargo in this conversation. I'm not sure what UA's cargo plan is, but it does play a role in a/c selection.
119 RDH3E : UCH owns pretty much the entire ExpressJet fleet. That all came from s-CO. UA didn't own any planes flown by its partners.
120 boilerla : Look at the the airlines you named. Almost all of them have a single large hub...DBX, DOH, SIN, SYD, LHR, FRA, etc. It's very easy to see why they ar
121 UALWN : The LH group flies TATL from FRA, MUC, DUS, ZRH, GVA, VIE, and soon BRU and, I'd guess, BER.
122 CO787EWR : But only LH has ordered the A380.
123 SonomaFlyer : Some of those are more focus cities than hubs (i.e. DUS, GVA). FRA is the LH main hub with MUC a smaller hub. VIE and ZRH are hubs for subsidiaries s
124 CALTECH : Hoping that is will be all from one manufacturer, narrowbodies and/ or widebodies. Having a mix of both in a new order will makes things even more com
125 UALWN : Only LH? Out of which? I would agree. But so is CLE, for instance, for TATL purposes, or even LAX, which has flights to a grand total of one TATL des
126 CO787EWR : The LH Group.
127 UALWN : OK. My point is that even with a multiple hub/gateway strategy, the A380 has found its way into the LH Group.
128 planesntrains : Which I think is pretty obvious to most in this discussion, and is likely why no one "forgot it" but rather felt it didn't need to be pointed out. Ok
129 UALWN : Of course. But can we also accept that UA might find out that the A380 (or the 748) could be a valuable addition to its fleet?
130 STT757 : I'm curious as to why, shorter segments from IAH?
131 staralliance85 : Smisek has stated that the A350 and the 787 will be suffiient enough for the fleet. But if they were to make an order I feel that the 77W would be gre
132 planesntrains : Of course. I think the point is that UA has previously stated that the 350 and 787 would cover their needs. Needs change, of course, but if we're jus
133 CALTECH : Could be. Central and South American destinations ? Will try to find out more. This was inevitable, the United fleet will be positioned where it can
134 SonomaFlyer : IAH to Latin America for example are shorter segments. They are likely right sizing the fleet assignments based on load trends. Given the -800's and t
135 Roseflyer : UA had 16 A320s equipped for overwater operations. They did not need a fleet that large with the few destinations requiring overwater airplanes from
136 SonomaFlyer : Thanks for that info Rose, it makes basing those a/c at IAH a no brainer given the routes from IAH which transit the Gulf of Mexico. However, I'd ass
137 nycdave : Here's why a VLA belongs in UA's future fleet (acknowledging that for the immediate future, they do have two dozen 744's going) When the economy rebou
138 flyhossd : I've heard a few (former) CO pilots state the reason they heard for the switch is that the Airbus' have better cargo capacity than the 737NGs, so it
139 DualQual : All the NG 737s (700/800/900/900ER) are overwater equipped and ETOPs rated. The popular theory about the busses coming to IAH and replacing the 737 s
140 SonomaFlyer : While I agree increasing frequencies from EWR won't work given slot constraints, I didn't think SFO had slot constraints yet.
141 planesntrains : That's entirely possible. However, if they need additional connection capacity transpacific, they can add frequencies from LAX too. If they need addi
142 boilerla : SFO may get slot constraints this summer. Having said that... [checkmark] this. UA doesn't have to add a VLA out of SFO if they want more capacity. F
143 kgaiflyer : The people in the UA main office might feel more comfortable making such a decision when (1) the unit price can be negotiated and (2) when airlines l
144 mogandoCI : They already have IAD cornered. I suspect they might push more TATL at ORD in order to reach critical mass such that instead of a duopoly, AA would b
145 Post contains images RDH3E : They announced this as a 735/A319. Not an RJ. The rest of your post is spot on!
146 UALWN : Well, maybe UA should look instead at EK's, SQ's, LH's 380's excellent dispatch-reliability...
147 ytz : My utterly insane idea: Narrowbody: A 15-year agreement for 300 739/73M9 with Boeing taking back all 73Gs and 738s. Alternatively, a similarly huge or
148 Roseflyer : SFO is contrained for domestic operations in the Asia departure bank. Most of their constraints are gate limited. However with T2 opening up, T3 has
149 n471wn : The whole airport is runway constrained and a new runway is needed in the worst way----SFO will languish unitl this happens
150 jfk777 : UA should be the first US airline with 777-300ER but the last to go bankrupt AA will be the first US airline with 777-300ER's.
151 SonomaFlyer : How do you see SFO languishing? They have non-stops to every continent save Africa and have room to add new international service right now. Technolo
152 n471wn : Because of the inadequate and too close together runways----it has been in all the papers!! Constant delays and even a new Dutch carrier (TUI or some
153 Roseflyer : SFO has problems when the ceilings are below 3,000ft becaues they cannot have simultaneous approaches because the runways are too close. The result i
154 Post contains links SonomaFlyer : I'm definitely aware of the runway placement and its effect on operations. I was taking issue with the notion that SFO is languishing as the traffic
155 n471wn : And that is a shame----San Francisco politics will forever keep SFO from being a world class airport and all of us who follow aviation here in the Ba
156 Roseflyer : I'm not sure I really believe that. The flow control can get pretty bad, but it is very predictable. It matches exactly with UA's 9-10am arrival bank
157 n471wn : Good point---I had forgotten that fact!!
158 ikramerica : You'd think SFO could at least convert taxiway L to a runway, then shift 1R over and re-stripe old 1R as new taxiway L with the centerline off center.
159 United1 : I don't think that would give them enough clearance...doesn't is have to be 700' center line to center line for simultaneous ILS approaches....it may
160 DocLightning : It's very true. The fact that any weather immediately causes 3 hour delays because the runways are 50 feet too close is a real problem. Once that can
161 ytz : Is it really that far off when you consider the A350 program delays? Boeing may have the 787-10 into service by 2016. As for range and payload. Do th
162 Roseflyer : For a program that is not yet launched, 2016 is a relatively sporty date to see deliveries. I don't see that happening. Other than SEA-NRT and HNL-NR
163 Cerecl : I really don't get the fixation on cancelling A350 order. 787-10 has not even been launched yet. Who is to say it won't be delayed? A certain advantag
164 ytz : I can't speak for others, but personally, I thought shifting to the 787-10 might just let them simplify their entire widebody fleet to one type. Ther
165 Cerecl : Firstly, an 787 WB fleet does not solve the 747 replacement issue so UA will need to go shopping again for 77W/NG/748i/A380. If this is the case, why
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