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Rumor: DL FA Seniority Agreement Finalized  
User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7927 times:
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Today the Seniority Integration Committee reached an agreement clearing the final hurdle needed for integration. Key points:
Date of Hire
Date of Birth for same-day hires(RedTail methodology)
Competitive seniority for bidding(Company x-fers won't retain seniority for bidding
No loss of seniority for LOD
No loss of seniority for maternity leave
DAL base-bumping rules

[Edited 2012-02-10 13:33:24]


Made from jets!
64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedl747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7683 times:

Do longer a rumor. It is already live on DeltaNet.

User currently offlinebhmdiversion From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7633 times:

From DLNet:

Date: February 10, 2012
To: All U.S.-based Delta flight attendants
From: Joanne Smith, Senior Vice President, In-Flight Service
Subject: Single flight attendant seniority list achieved



It is with tremendous pride I share with you the news that our pre-merger seniority integration committees and the company have reached agreement on a single seniority list. The consensual agreement was signed this morning. This is an historical day, and it is the FINAL step we needed to fly together on May 1.

I offer my sincere congratulations to the individuals on each of our committees. They spent untold hours, sleepless nights and poured their hearts into a single list they could be proud of, and one that was fair and equitable to the over 20,000 Delta flight attendants they represented in the process. When they concluded you could feel the joy and excitement in the room as committee members congratulated one another.

The written agreement will be posted later today, but outlines a date of hire methodology for integrating the lists including a training date adjustment where applicable for pre-merger Delta flight attendants to align with the pre-merger Northwest policy. The list also incorporates a methodology for “breaking ties” in classes where birth date order could not be used without re-ordering the list. The conditions of the agreement are typical of conditions normally found in seniority integration. The committees will spend the next few days preparing the list for posting and final verification by you later this month. For complete details, please read the signed agreement. Look for further communication from the seniority committees in the coming week.

It is indeed a happy day and the coming together of our pre-merger flight attendant SICs with this consensual agreement is symbolic of the teamwork, collegiality and respect for one another that Delta is known for. We will not just fly together, but will be BETTER TOGETHER as well.

Joanne


User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7414 posts, RR: 50
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7311 times:
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Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 2):
The list also incorporates a methodology for “breaking ties” in classes where birth date order could not be used without re-ordering the list. The conditions of the agreement are typical of conditions normally found in seniority integration.

So now PMDL FAs in classes where the lottery was drawn, will they be rearranged according to birthday?



Made from jets!
User currently offlineJackbr From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7301 times:

So, does this mean DL and PMNW crew will fly together?

User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7225 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Thread starter):
Date of Birth for same-day hires(RedTail methodology)
Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 3):
So now PMDL FAs in classes where the lottery was drawn, will they be rearranged according to birthday?

When I was hired, I was given first choice of start times and days off since I was the oldest in the class. Even when listing for flights.....same seniority date?...Older employee boards first. It's nothing new at Delta and has nothing to do with Red Tails.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinecmb320 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 414 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7205 times:

Quoting Jackbr (Reply 4):
So, does this mean DL and PMNW crew will fly together?

Yes, our first month of flying together is May.


User currently offlineFURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 803 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6824 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 5):
Older employee boards first. It's nothing new at Delta and has nothing to do with Red Tails.

Pretty sure that's not the case. At ACS bidding is indeed done by whomever is older if two employees have the same seniority date. But when it comes to non-revving, if two people have the same pass eligibility date, then its whomever checks in first.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12254 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6769 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 7):
Pretty sure that's not the case. At ACS bidding is indeed done by whomever is older if two employees have the same seniority date. But when it comes to non-revving, if two people have the same pass eligibility date, then its whomever checks in first.

Older employees just tend to have higher seniority  



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6707 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Thread starter):
Date of Birth for same-day hires(RedTail methodology)

Also DL methodology......it was that way when I hired on in '71.....sure it's the same, today.

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 7):
But when it comes to non-revving, if two people have the same pass eligibility date, then its whomever checks in first.

I think you're correct..........I think the birthdate only comes into play when bidding shifts or vacations.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinerojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2466 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6538 times:

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 7):
Pretty sure that's not the case. At ACS bidding is indeed done by whomever is older if two employees have the same seniority date. But when it comes to non-revving, if two people have the same pass eligibility date, then its whomever checks in first.

Gotta love AA's NonRev policy... A new employee can bump a 35 year seniority FA when NonReving!!! I don't understand why other airlines keep doing it by seniority?


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

Quoting rojo (Reply 10):
Gotta love AA's NonRev policy... A new employee can bump a 35 year seniority FA when NonReving!!! I don't understand why other airlines keep doing it by seniority?

So, in your mind, those that have been there longer, don't deserve to board first? The problem with doing it by check-in time is that there are so many different ways to check-in, now, that anyone could check-in before you......hell, on DL, you can do it from home, 24 hours in advance. With all these methods, hardly seems fair to do it by check-in time.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1095 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6348 times:

Quoting rojo (Reply 10):

Maybe because if you have been with the company longer ,you should be able to board before someone who hasn't. Ever thought of that ??


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12254 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6197 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

As much as low seniority sucks when nonrevving, I still prefer that system. At least you can look forward to when you start gaining seniority and don't have to worry about getting bumped (as much).


911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlinethrufru From Marshall Islands, joined Feb 2009, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6170 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 11):
So, in your mind, those that have been there longer, don't deserve to board first? The problem with doing it by check-in time is that there are so many different ways to check-in, now, that anyone could check-in before you......hell, on DL, you can do it from home, 24 hours in advance. With all these methods, hardly seems fair to do it by check-in time.

In my career so far, I've had benefits on both Delta and American, and I can easily say that I prefer the AA method of boarding for non-rev travel, though maybe some type of compromise between seniority and check in time could be worked out. My biggest problem with seniority based listing for non-rev travel is not being bumped by a 35 year employee, but being bumped by their spouse and/or children (variations of this have happened to me countless times).

The good thing about listing based on check-in time is that everyone has the same options available to them, and AA's time window opens 4 hours prior.

Seniority accounts for so many perks and priviledges already, from bidding to vacation, to not being on reserve. It's kind of nice when an airline gives one benefit to all of it's employees equally.

Before this devolves into a discussion/debate on the merits of non-rev travel, I'd like to extend my congratulations to the F/A's of Delta for getting this matter settled.


User currently offlinerojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2466 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6159 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 11):
So, in your mind, those that have been there longer, don't deserve to board first? The problem with doing it by check-in time is that there are so many different ways to check-in, now, that anyone could check-in before you......hell, on DL, you can do it from home, 24 hours in advance. With all these methods, hardly seems fair to do it by check-in time.

Everybody deserves the chance to board first and the best way to do it is by check in time. Seniority has brought the airline industry to where it is today... just because someone has been working for 35 years does not mean they own the company and they can have the privilege of arriving to the gate 30 minutes before departure and be on top of the list.

Quoting etops1 (Reply 12):

Maybe because if you have been with the company longer ,you should be able to board before someone who hasn't. Ever thought of that ??

Why? Give me one good reason? It is totally unfair to do it by seniority in my opinion... we are all employees and we all contribute to the company the same way = by working hard!!


User currently offlinecrj200faguy From United States of America, joined May 2007, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5823 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 11):
So, in your mind, those that have been there longer, don't deserve to board first? The problem with doing it by check-in time is that there are so many different ways to check-in, now, that anyone could check-in before you......hell, on DL, you can do it from home, 24 hours in advance. With all these methods, hardly seems fair to do it by check-in time.

What people don't realize is that we all need to go behind Mayor even on our own aircraft as active employees because if it weren't for him chucking bags on the wright flyer we wouldn't have a company to work for.

Retirees and Parents belong after active employees.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5813 times:

Quoting thrufru (Reply 14):
but being bumped by their spouse and/or children

A coworker once joked that his 2 year old would board before me and I reminded him that if there were only one seat left, I would board before him or his 2 year old.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12254 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5605 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 16):
What people don't realize is that we all need to go behind Mayor even on our own aircraft as active employees because if it weren't for him chucking bags on the wright flyer we wouldn't have a company to work for.

Aren't you guys S3 on your own planes anymore?

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 16):
Retirees and Parents belong after active employees.

Agree, as well as children (unless accompanied by the employee)

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 17):
I reminded him that if there were only one seat left, I would board before him or his 2 year old.

  


However, this thread is about DL F/As finally flying together



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlinecrj200faguy From United States of America, joined May 2007, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5563 times:

We are S3 but children are S3 as well. I love getting beat out on my own plane by some kid who wasn't born before the date they are traveling on.

User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2383 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5497 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 11):
So, in your mind, those that have been there longer, don't deserve to board first?

Correct. Why should you? You out bid those junior to you, and in doing so hold the better trips/shifts. Why should you also get to get on a plane before me? It's called entitlement!

Quoting etops1 (Reply 12):
Maybe because if you have been with the company longer ,you should be able to board before someone who hasn't. Ever thought of that ??

Yes I have, and I think it's the most entitled and arrogant thing to do.

Quoting thrufru (Reply 14):
In my career so far, I've had benefits on both Delta and American, and I can easily say that I prefer the AA method of boarding for non-rev travel

Hear, hear! And now you can check in 24 hours before departure.



"The low fares airline."
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5304 times:

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 16):
What people don't realize is that we all need to go behind Mayor even on our own aircraft as active employees because if it weren't for him chucking bags on the wright flyer we wouldn't have a company to work for.

HEY, I'm not THAT old.
 

BTW, what YOU need to realize is that ALL of you, board before me or my wife.

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 16):

Retirees and Parents belong after active employees.

I agree on the parents, but on the Retirees, if they don't want to give us some sort of priority, how about 1 or 2, just S3 passes a year.....that doesn't hurt anyone. Now, I know that active employees have to get back to work, yada, yada......but just because I'm retired doesn't mean I like to spend all day in an airport, any more than you do.
Just since I retired, almost immediately, it was like night and day trying to nonrev on an S3B compared to an S3, there's that much difference.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 20):
Correct. Why should you? You out bid those junior to you, and in doing so hold the better trips/shifts. Why should you also get to get on a plane before me? It's called entitlement!

There are very few rewards for working longer..........why take away the few that those with seniority do have?

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 20):
Yes I have, and I think it's the most entitled and arrogant thing to do.

One wonders if you would be singing the same song if you were in that position.
 
Quoting AA767400 (Reply 20):
Hear, hear! And now you can check in 24 hours before departure.

Same on DL.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12254 posts, RR: 35
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5233 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 19):
We are S3 but children are S3 as well. I love getting beat out on my own plane by some kid who wasn't born before the date they are traveling on.

Well, that makes more sense (not that I agree). I quoted you talking about old farts like Mayor  
Quoting mayor (Reply 21):
Just since I retired, almost immediately, it was like night and day trying to nonrev on an S3B compared to an S3, there's that much difference.

DCI employees are S3C on anything except their own carrier, so you'd beat them on everything but OO/EV and the DCI employee's own carrier



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 22):
DCI employees are S3C on anything except their own carrier, so you'd beat them on everything but OO/EV and the DCI employee's own carrier

Them and S-4s are about the only ones behind me........now there's probably another 30,000 employees that are ahead of us, either S-2/S-3 or "one great airline" passes.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 22):
old farts like Mayor

Not by age, but by smell



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5115 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 23):
Them and S-4s are about the only ones behind me........now there's probably another 30,000 employees that are ahead of us, either S-2/S-3 or "one great airline" passes.



To be fair, you wouldn't have even seen the guys using their one great team passes because they are positive space and would be confirmed on the flight. Only different now is you can standby for a first/business class upgrade so they would appear on the airport standby list as a PSUP being confirmed in coach.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 22):
DCI employees are S3C on anything except their own carrier, so you'd beat them on everything but OO/EV and the DCI employee's own carrier



SkyWest made a pretty big stink with Delta about the passes. Now, they're the only carrier where we (DL employees) are S3C on the DCI carrier's metal. So, if you're flying LAS-LAX, you will be S3C while OO/EV employees will be S3. Now say you're flying ATL-GSP on Pinnacle, Pinnacle and DL employees fly as S3.



What gets measured gets done.
25 mayor : Yes, but they are non-revs and go before me.......I guess I sound like I'm griping too much.....maybe I was spoiled when I was active, but I had no i
26 VHSMM : And people wonder why airlines are going broke...
27 Post contains images workhorse : Oh, reading this, I just realized that it wasn't the case yet! For some reason, I was sure that former NW and DL crews were already flying together.
28 RyanairGuru : Pilots have been integrated for years The crews have been cross-trained (eg NW onto the 737 and DL onto the A320) but the two groups cannot fly toget
29 jetjack74 : Yes they've been all PMNW flying those routes. With the exception of DTW, all PMNW international domicles remaithe purely PMNW, same with the PMDL si
30 workhorse : Thank you, that's interesting. I asked because there was an FA with an impressively good level in French on my last flight from MSP to CDG, and I was
31 KaiGywer : Well, his trip may have been MSP-CDG-CVG-CDG-MSP for example. I don't know if that's a "valid" trip pairing or not, but it could explain it. (Not tha
32 Post contains images mayor : But they're not.....at least on this side of the pond, with the exception of AA. Look up DL's, UA's, US' financial performance over the past couple o
33 Post contains images jetjack74 : For a short time, PMDL FAs "may" have flown MSP-CDG at one time(I seem to recall they did initially when it went to a 767), but not since 2009. And t
34 nwaesc : FWIW, ties were sorted by alphabetical order at NW. Ha! Okay, that's funny. As for the rest of it? You guys can have it; there's a reason I rarely no
35 AA767400 : This is a job, not a career. Why should you be treated better because you've been here longer? Oh that's right, because you feel entitled. Of course
36 FlyASAGuy2005 : They go before everyone Mayor! LOL. They are positive space. Something funny but if you book positive space and there are no seats available for assi
37 PGNCS : I bet. I wonder how much seniority you could have had in either system? Because they earned the right by being there for years and you haven't. Given
38 AA767400 : Well, that's great that you're generalizing my age group, and myself personally. Shocked to believe that I should ride before someone else? What you'
39 Post contains images mayor : Not all of us were F/As, so, no reserve. For some of us, it was a career. I guess it depends on what department you were in. I'd say, if I stuck arou
40 darksnowynight : Hmmm... My company does that too. Until I took that job, I'd never seen it before. Seems like a pretty fair way to go. There is, but it's more even t
41 quiet1 : Just out of curiosity, is anything in your workgroup governed by senioirty, like bidding schedules or vacations? Why?
42 TOMMY767 : PMNW I know do the EWR-AMS routing. Now that the seniority agreement has been finalized, I'm sure this means PMDL NYC crews can operate it as well.
43 rojo : Unless you own the company (and I mean enough voting shares that will give you a majority stake to control decision making) you are not entitled to a
44 crj200faguy : I don't think most people begrudge active employees going ahead of them who have worked here a long time. It's people like Mayor who "don't have time
45 mayor : Well, that's the typical response I expect to get anymore in regards to respect for your elders, no matter the subject. Would it REALLY hurt you if I
46 crj200faguy : I don't begrudge you 1-2 s3s a year. as long as you would agree to take s3cr priority the rest of the time. I won't be in your position because I dont
47 Super80DFW : Being a non-revenue traveler on AA, I've become partial to the way they handle the standby list. I wouldn't be against AA changing this system to a se
48 mayor : It wasn't seniority issues that held things up between the DL & NW F/As......it was representation and they had to vote and then the AFA filed a
49 ASFlyer : Every "major" airline has NOT been in bankruptcy. Unless, of course, you only consider DL/NW, UA/CO and US to be "major". AS, WN and B6 have all done
50 ASFlyer : Who are YOU to say whether being a Flight Attendant is a career or not? Airlines market them as careers when they recruit for FA's so apparently they
51 milesrich : What is it with these people who think that length of service means nothing. Good companies treat their employees well so they will stay, rather than
52 Type-Rated : Remember a few years ago when WN had that offer to 10 year & plus employees? They said it right out. Something like "thank you for your service, b
53 Post contains images AA767400 : Because he's "earned" the right to do so. I would. If it's not broken, don't fix it. You seem to have a paranoia about this. Your generalization abou
54 Super80DFW : Oh I definitely don't think it's broken! Like I said I've become partial to the way AA handles the priority list. I must say though, the way AA and E
55 mayor : I'm sure I'm not the only DL retiree (or any for that matter) that feels this way. And yet, there are those on here that want to change DL's system,
56 FlyASAGuy2005 : I actually don't think its too much to ask for. Have you ever considered writing a letter?
57 jetjack74 : Well, they can and we can as well, just not together. We on the PMNW side are just now getting a taste for PMDL folks scheduling works. THe NW bases
58 nwaesc : I'm sure you're not, and bet most active employees feel the same way. Senioirty rules. The end. This idea that someone should just come on in and jum
59 KaiGywer : Don't you get S2 days? I have seen S2B as a priority on a flight before, I figured it was a retired S2 day...I might be wrong though
60 b727fa : Ok, BACK to the FA Seniority agreement! @JetJack, no, there is no re-ordering of the pre-merger lists.
61 b727fa : Oh, and regarding the FA job was never meant to be a career, "Well, it IS Blanch, it IS!" (With apologies to Bette Davis.)
62 mayor : Yes, I have and got the usual "We're not planning to do any changes to the pass rules at this time". Unfortunately, you are.........the BEST we get a
63 Post contains images NWAROOSTER : This forum is way off base. It is about the combining of two different groups of flight attendants into one combined group of employees. They should b
64 mayor : Unless things have changed since 2005, the tie breaker is birthdate, as it was when I hired on in 1971.
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