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New Zealand Aviation Thread #110  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12594 times:
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Welcome to the 110th Edition of the New Zealand Aviation Thread. In thread #109 New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 109 (by cchan Jan 25 2012 in Civil Aviation) we learnt and discussed:

- NZ and India ops
- A320 -OJK returning
- NZs ‘Rockstar’ CEO announces he is leaving
- NZ returning to Bali
- JQ quits the CHC-BNE market
- Ex QF B734 ZK-JTG being painted in Alliance colours

204 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 2683 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 12417 times:

I missed the last thread but the news of Bali was interesting. I hope the 767s stick aorund after the 787 delivery for those low-yielding routes. Though it is kind of remarkable that Bali will be NZ's only southeast Asian destination. I wonder if Manila is on the radar - the VFR traffic could justify it, maybe.

The last thread also mentioned the recent collapse in the satisfaction rates for Jetstar on New Zealand domestic. Reliability must surely be the reason, but I've noticed things seem to be improving a little of late (all flights on time, actually lifting off etc).

I used Jetstar for a WLG-ZQN return a few weeks back. Jam packed aircraft both times which makes me think that NZ has really missed a trick here. They've been operating a one daily ATR flight for a while now but the fares have been horrendous.

So has JQ stimulated the market with its fares or is this latent demand that NZ was simply ignoring because of its monopoly position (which, really, is saying the same thing twice)? And if it works on WLG-ZQN, would a one daily on other regional routes do likewise for JQ? AKL-NSN? AKL-PMR? WLG-HLZ? CHC-IVC? even AKL-IVC? I think all have merit for once or twice dailies, even for A320-sized aircraft, as the lower fares seem to really pull the punters in. It would shake things up for NZ on regional flights, which, I think they've taken advantage of for a little too long now.

If JQ can get its reliability right, I think they could change the doemstic market considerably if they think outside the box a little.

[Edited 2012-02-13 14:48:06]

User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4874 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 12392 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 1):
on other regional routes do likewise for JQ? AKL-NSN?

Is the NSN runway long enough?


User currently offlineTravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12338 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 1):
If JQ can get its reliability right,

I am happy to go on record and say the it is a myth that JQ is unrelaible. I've flown over 90 sectors on them now, currently twice weekly between AKL and WLG at Monday and Friday peak times. They've won my business as Air NZ is twice the price if not more. By using JQ instead full service airlines, my savings to date on both domestic and international flights are over $15,000.

The only punctuality issue that I have is that they usually arrive 5-10mins early. Indeed this Monday I was 20 mins early on a WLG-AKL!

True, I have had one day this when I was delayed 5 hours due to an aircraft experiencing mechanical difficulties, and its moments like these that give JQ a bad name. I simply paid for lounge access in WLG and worked remotely thanks to WLG's free WIFI. Other than that I have only had 4 flights when I have been more than 15 mins late. Therefore my experience of JQ punctuality is that I'm on time 94.4%.

I believe that JQ gets disproportionately bad rap in the press. Its not half as bad as people make out.



What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
User currently offlinenz2 From New Zealand, joined Aug 2007, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 12327 times:

- If you book on AR, you travel on AR. Their tickets are not widely transferable/endorsable to other carriers. Which means if your flight is delayed to South America by 12/24/47/72+ hours you're stuck waiting until your aircraft is fixed/swapped for the next one. At least if LA has big problems they can reroute via SYD to QF EZE/SCL, or via LAX on QF, then LA south. I'm not saying it often happens with LA, but there are usually options, whereas AR have none. LA fly daily whereas AR fly 3 times week, sometimes four a week, during high season. This is usually worth paying the extra cash to go on LA.


Thanks Areorobnz, cheers


User currently offlinejoelyboy911 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12248 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 1):
AKL-NSN? AKL-PMR? WLG-HLZ? CHC-IVC?

I think some of these routes would be doable. Certainly my local pet AKL-PMR, and that's based on the same principles you mentioned on the ZQN route.

Naturally it would force NZ to consider cutting frequencies but I think JQ could establish a presence with one or two flights per day, on those routes, however it would require more aircraft and the flights would probably need to be timed in the mornings and evenings which might result in poor utilisation. The ability to boost the demand is there, and the brand is already well-known across New Zealand.

However, the expense of having to have staff on the ground at the new ports would be a factor. You also have to remember that those airports would have to reopen their security screening departments. PMR has one, from the days when international flights by Freedom were flying from there, but they have no staff, and I don't even know if the equipment is all still there to be honest.

I don't know who would be responsible for funding this, but given the airport is trying to court international flights back, presumably they have a plan for it. It wouldn't be cheap though, directly or indirectly, the burden will fall to the user. I think it's the major impediment to JQ opening new routes with their present fleet.



Flown: NZ, NY, SJ, QF, UA, AC, EI, BE, TP, AF
User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 2683 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12233 times:

Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 3):
I am happy to go on record and say the it is a myth that JQ is unrelaible.

And I'm happy to state otherwise.

I have flown on Jetstar on New Zealand domestic on eleven domestic return trips (tallying up one ways) in the past nine months, making 22 flights. Of those, five never left the ground, meaning a ruined weekend away, making an additional four flights redundant (the other one was usable because the replacement Jetstar flight could get me there in reasonable time).

In anyone's book, that's a pretty high rate of outright failure. The only reason I persisted with them was the constant provision of travel vouchers in compensation for cancelled services. My work trialled using them but their constant delays and further cancellations meant that reliability became too much of an issue.

Jetstar also pad out their timetables substantially to increase the chance of being "on time". Five minutes here and there, fine, but it can get frustrating when they pad by up to 20 minutes and you're left lingering at the airport. It's also pretty disingenuous.

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 5):
However, the expense of having to have staff on the ground at the new ports would be a factor.

Probably one of the two key cost issues, but I'm pretty sure the local cities would open their arms to them. The other being aircraft availability, as you pointed out.

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 5):
Naturally it would force NZ to consider cutting frequencies

not sure about that. Maybe, but you'd likely see larger aircraft, lower fares.

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 5):
probably need to be timed in the mornings and evenings

Not sure about that either. Some of the routes aren't likely to have a huge business demand so mid morning/arvo flights could be a goer. And in some cases the fares could be sufficiently low enough for people to accept an overnight stay. that really is how expensive NZ can be on regional flights.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12218 times:
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Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 3):
I am happy to go on record and say the it is a myth that JQ is unrelaible.

I think that most of the time they are fine... however, it seems that when things go wrong ( as they will at any airline from time to time) their recovery is very poor.

A friend of mine in CHC used to constantly sing their praises and about 14 months ago she actually berated me for booking NZ and paying 'too much' when I went down to visit her (in fact I booked my itinerary ages out and got a very inexpensive fare) .

Shortly after that she had major problems with 3 Jetstar itineraries in 3 months. In all 3 cases the initial problems could have happened to any airline, but Jetstar dropped the ball on the recovery. She has not purchased another ticket on Jetstar since then.

I hope that your run of problem free Jetstar flights continues... but the proof of reliability ( for me at least) with an airline is in how they handle you when a problem does happen.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently onlineMr AirNZ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2002, 851 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12183 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 7):
Shortly after that she had major problems with 3 Jetstar itineraries in 3 months. In all 3 cases the initial problems could have happened to any airline, but Jetstar dropped the ball on the recovery. She has not purchased another ticket on Jetstar since then.

You've hit on something here bigger than some may realise.

Studies have shown that a positive service recovery experience that passengers/consumers believe was handled well will increase loyalty to a brand more so than just a continous run of good and trouble free experiences. When things go wrong, someone needs to pick up the pieces quickly. Businesses that have empowered staff and processes in place for a wide variety of events generally perform better. Companies that use contractors often perform badly in such a situation simply because staff often have very limited powers (not saying this appliess in the JQ case necessarily, talking more in a general sense).


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 2683 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12176 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 7):
but the proof of reliability ( for me at least) with an airline is in how they handle you when a problem does happen.

I agree. and it wuld explain the substantial drop in satisfaction with Jetstar in the survey reported in the last thread. I can't see any other variables that have changed. If anything, they've expanded their schedules and the fares are fairly constant. Though I have noticed they've upped their baseline AKL-WLG fare from $59 to $69. Hmmmm.


User currently onlinebyronicle6 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12179 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 1):
even AKL-IVC?

Im baffled as to why neither NZ or JQ fly AKL-IVC non-stop. At current, the earliest a business traveller from IVC can be in Auckland is at 10.00am, and the latest they can depart is 5.00pm. ZQN has 5 daily (4 NZ, 1 JQ) and DUD has 4 daily (3 NZ, 1 JQ) non-stop from AKL. And whilst Invercargill is not the tourist hub of Queenstown, or have the population of Dunedin, a 1x daily flight that is timed for business travellers especially would be much welcomed im sure, requiring an overnight for the aircraft at IVC.

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 1):
I used Jetstar for a WLG-ZQN return a few weeks back. Jam packed aircraft both times which makes me think that NZ has really missed a trick here. They've been operating a one daily ATR flight for a while now but the fares have been horrendous.

Glad JQ have jumped in here, as you said prices were horrendous. Am i right in saying that JQ have more capacity over NZ on this route? The only domestic route that JQ has more capacity than NZ?

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 1):
And if it works on WLG-ZQN, would a one daily on other regional routes do likewise for JQ? AKL-NSN? AKL-PMR? WLG-HLZ? CHC-IVC? even AKL-IVC?

You can add ROT-CHC to that list aswell. ROT along with HLZ both have security screening already in place. NZ is also boosting capacity on this route to 733 in the 2012/13 summer season. Qantas used to fly this route, but dropped it when domestic operations switched to JQ.

Im also more than happy to fly JQ and have never been more than 5-10 mins late, with most flights being on - time or early. To be honest ive had more issues with NZ in terms of on-time performance


User currently offlinezkncj From New Zealand, joined Nov 2005, 491 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12163 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 1):
I used Jetstar for a WLG-ZQN return a few weeks back. Jam packed aircraft both times which makes me think that NZ has really missed a trick here. They've been operating a one daily ATR flight for a while now but the fares have been horrendous.

Don't forget that this route is still in the 'Honey Moon' stage, just because the flight was packed didn't doesn't mean it made a profitt. Most of the passengers likely paid $29 for there intro sale fare.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 2683 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12109 times:

Quoting zkncj (Reply 11):
Don't forget that this route is still in the 'Honey Moon' stage, just because the flight was packed didn't doesn't mean it made a profitt. Most of the passengers likely paid $29 for there intro sale fare.

That's true. But it just goes to show what lower fares can do to stimulate a market. I work with people in our WLG office who own cribs ( ) down in Wanaka and are jumping at the chance to fly down more often. Where once there was a two-three times yearly visit, they've already booked five-six visits. Pretty good going.

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 8):
Studies have shown that a positive service recovery experience that passengers/consumers believe was handled well will increase loyalty to a brand more so than just a continous run of good and trouble free experiences. When things go wrong, someone needs to pick up the pieces quickly.

Absolutely. And JQ fails miserably, in my experience. The cancellation is not advertised beforehand, (eg. the flight across the ditch was severely delayed, meaning the flight to AKL was cancelled, meaning the retrn WLG-AKL was nixed) so you turn up to the airport thinking hunky dory when it aint, and hasn't been for several hours, there is never anyone who has the authority to make a call on things or provide definitive, accurate information, and I've yet to see JQ deliver clear, simple instruction on what to do next.

Let's hope they learn. PacBlue never seemed to have this sort of chaotic approach. But oddly, JetConnect did. Hmmmm.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6407 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12085 times:

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 10):
Im baffled as to why neither NZ or JQ fly AKL-IVC non-stop. At current, the earliest a business traveller from IVC can be in Auckland is at 10.00am, and the latest they can depart is 5.00pm. ZQN has 5 daily (4 NZ, 1 JQ) and DUD has 4 daily (3 NZ, 1 JQ) non-stop from AKL. And whilst Invercargill is not the tourist hub of Queenstown, or have the population of Dunedin, a 1x daily flight that is timed for business travellers especially would be much welcomed im sure, requiring an overnight for the aircraft at IVC.

I doubt there'd be enough demand for a 733.. So what other aircraft would you put on this flight which is currently in NZ's fleet or orderbook?

Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 3):
I've flown over 90 sectors on them now, currently twice weekly between AKL and WLG at Monday and Friday peak times.

I take it you don't have many sectors involving ZQN in there?



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11892 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 1):
I hope the 767s stick aorund after the 787 delivery for those low-yielding routes.

Agree. The 763s are also very useful on some Pacific Islands routes where a 789 would be a bit of a waste.


User currently offlineTravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11839 times:

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 13):
I take it you don't have many sectors involving ZQN in there?

Sadly, no.  But the aircraft I've been flying on, or departing from the gates next to mine, have nearly always operated through ZQN that same day, so I'd have noticed any flow on effects of service disruption.

Here is a link to JQ's on time performance for those who are interested.
http://www.jetstar.com/nz/en/what-we-offer/our-performance

It looks OK, apart from the July/August troubles due to snow. That said I am curious as it neither lists international punctuality nor does it give the level of cancellations. I note that in June 82% of the flights were on time, but didn't their planes spend half the month on the ground due to ash?

However, as other's posts have reminded me, airline reliability is more than punctuality.



What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11812 times:

Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 15):
Here is a link to JQ's on time performance for those who are interested.
http://www.jetstar.com/nz/en/what-we...mance

Does this include flights that are summarily cancelled? My issue with JQ has been two flights that were cancelled and my itinerary changed not to suit me, the paying customer, and with the options to go with NZ at that close to departure time being cost prohibitive.

And I really dislike the surly attitude I've experienced from their ground-staff at check-in.

Having said the above, I really applaud them for starting WLG-ZQN.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11796 times:

New routes for NZ question/thought regarding India and Singapore: with the airline in the past saying it will go back to SIN on arrival of the 787 and also having said it will be looking at India, would it not make more sense for the airline to return to SIN when AI joins Star Alliance? This way the airline can codeshare with AI on flights from SIN to AMD, BLR, BOM, CCU, COK, DEL, HYD, MAA etc. Plus, with TG on flights to BKK, CNX, HKT etc. There's be far less risk in trying to put all India eggs in one airport's basket plus make the SIN return far more viable and attractive.

Thoughts?



come visit the south pacific
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11781 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 9):
upped their baseline AKL-WLG fare from $59 to $69. Hmmmm.

For me now thanks to the stand by fares, if I know I've got to be somewhere at a certain time or got to fly during peak hour then I'll book the fare in advance but if I'm able to arrive at any time I'll try the stand by fares for cheaper then the base fare

Quoting byronicle6 (Reply 10):
You can add ROT-CHC

Maybe also WLG-ROT in peak season with an E190 or B733

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 12):
Let's hope they learn. PacBlue never seemed to have this sort of chaotic approach. But oddly, JetConnect did.

Yip JQ are keeping the Qantas Group reputation alive here!


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7167 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11761 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 17):
Thoughts?

I think your idea would have been successful with a properly specced 763 and also had NZ stayed with the 788.

The only way SIN will return for the time being is if they operate via SIN to India - already touted as a no go "one stopper" at least for the next 11 months...( ) although there will be a new CEO I'm not convinced the apple will fall hugely far from the tree..

I think SIN as a destination like it used to be is a long way down on the NZ list these days, between 3K & SQ the whole market that NZ would be able to chase and occupy is sown up, with any remaining opportunity mopped up by QF/MH.
I personally like your thinking, but their opportunity to re-inject themselves into the SIN market has gone ever since they rolled over and gave up on the destination overnight. From daily 763 to 5x 772s a week to 0x with no thought to re-invest in the 763 fleet until it was too late. First the aircraft was right, but the product was wrong, then the product on SIN was finally right when the 772 arrived, but the aircraft was wrong- hence the 772 service lasted all of about 4 months before they cut it and used the aircraft to fly PVG/YVR..

The relatively minor cost to fit the BP/PE/Y products on the 763 could have made Singapore viable instead of wasting the 772 there (which of course would have been useful elsewhere) but now there is 3K and an opportunity wasted. Since the current CEO started ZK-NCE,ZK-NCF, ZK-NCN,ZK-NCO were all retired from NZ operation. Even if 4 had been kept in the current configuration (or even higher density) for shorthaul, and the other 4 for longhaul, NZs ability to 'right-size' a flight and also operate to destinations with wildly different yields/clientele requirements would have dramatically increased.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11751 times:

Quoting aerokiwi (Reply 6):
that really is how expensive NZ can be on regional flights.

The cost of regional flights in NZL is a regular refrain. Out of interest, I did a comparison with similar Canadian flights (1 hour), using comparable fare buckets (second lowest bucket, with similar restrictions on changes, etc.) at similar times (morning outbound, late afternoon return).

April 10, 2012

AKL-NPE-AKL
NZ $434 ($CDN 372)

YYZ/AC $431 ($NZ 518)
PD $369 ($NZ 443)
WS $403 ($NZ 484)

So despite NZ having a monopoly on AKL-NPE, and YYZ being highly competitive (hourly flights by AC and WS, 2 hourly by WS), the fares are very comparable in each country's own dollar.

[Edited 2012-02-14 05:36:59]

[Edited 2012-02-14 05:37:23]

[Edited 2012-02-14 05:38:36]


Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11740 times:

[Trying again, as the edit function keeps on deleting parts of my post]

The cost of regional flights in NZL is a regular refrain. Out of interest, I did a comparison with similar Canadian flights (1 hour), using comparable fare buckets (second lowest bucket, with similar restrictions on changes, etc.) at similar times (morning outbound, late afternoon return).

April 10, 2012

AKL-NPE-AKL
NZ $434 ($CDN 372)

YOW-YYZ/YTZ - YOW
YYZ/AC $431 ($NZ 518)
PD $369 ($NZ 443)
WS $403 ($NZ 484)

So despite NZ having a monopoly on AKL-NPE, and YOW-YYZ being highly competitive (hourly flights by AC and PD, 2 hourly by WS), the fares are very comparable in each country's own dollar.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlinenascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 276 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 11705 times:

Has anyone looked at Air NZ options should Air Tahuti Nui fold. Rumor is that TN are losing money daily and may only last another month.
Air NZ could step in and operate the following with 767-300ER aircraft
AKL-PPT-LAX x 3 weekly
SYD-PPT x 3 weekly
AKL-PPT-South America (GRU/GIG or SCL) x 3 weekly
It may mean Air NZ have to source additional 767 capacity until the 787's come on line

I am not sure how much traffic TN carries to CDG ex PPT but this could be left to AF. The 2 x weekly PPT-NRT market could be rerouted via AKL to connect with the AKL-NRT service.
Currently all SYD-PPT passengers are connected via AKL. Air NZ could fill that market with the PPT-SYD non-stop similar to what they have done with the RAR-SYD service.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 11687 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Fyfe departure may be earlier - http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...8546/Fyfe-departure-may-be-earlier

An interesting part:

An industry insider said Air New Zealand could lose the chairman, chief financial officer Rob McDonald and long-serving deputy chief executive Norm Thompson in quick succession.

McDonald and Thompson have both told the board they will not apply for the top job.


User currently offlineaerokiwi From New Zealand, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 2683 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 11574 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 21):
So despite NZ having a monopoly on AKL-NPE, and YOW-YYZ being highly competitive (hourly flights by AC and PD, 2 hourly by WS), the fares are very comparable in each country's own dollar.

Though I think Canada has relatively higher taxes, no? And if you compare it to average income per capita/some kind of price parity measure that accounts for local labour costs etc (PPP?), I'm fairly certain you'll come out with a differrent result. Simply comparing in relative currencies doesn't really provide a full picture - you need to 'Big Mac Index' it.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 18):
For me now thanks to the stand by fares,

So you've used these? How has it worked out? Is it first in first served? I've only become aware of the standby concept recently. I saw a Twitter feed from NZ to customers' enquiries as to whether there are seats available that day - seems a good idea to clear excess stock. Though don't ask me how Twitter works  
Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 15):
Here is a link to JQ's on time performance for those who are interested.

Yeah, but it helps with the timetable padding they have, eg. for some reason, JQ's A320s fly 5 minutes slower than NZ's 733s and A320s between AKL and WLG. Convenient.


25 Kaiarahi : It's admittedly a rough and ready comparison, and I'm certainly not an economist.
26 koruman : It's difficult to know whether the French Polynesian government would allow TN to fail. Air NZ could easily resume AKL-PPT-LAX, but I think it's the
27 777ER : No, I havn't used stand by yet, but several friends have and yes its first in/first served. Your status also seems to help. I'm considering doing an
28 agent99nzboi : With regards to NZ on the WLG-ZQN flights. I feel that it's not a route that needs to be flown direct, NZ maintains its frequency between the 2 centre
29 byronicle6 : I didnt think Stand By fares accrued status points. I used Stand by for CHC-DUD and CHC-AKL in July & August last year and wasnt able to get any
30 Unclekoru : It's meant to be quite a seasonal route. It has been flown with the 733 or twice daily AT7 flights during peak seasons in previous years. I'll be int
31 Unclekoru : Completely agree, and this is where Jetstar let themselves down. They won't even give you a refund if they cancel will they? Just a booking credit?
32 aerokiwi : I'm not sure that's even remotely true. The package tourist run from ZQN to ROT goes via CHC just fine. Having used the NZ WLG-ZQN service a handful
33 aerokiwi : Which seasons? Winter only? Nope. Summer only? Nope. Sure maybe a lull in Spring/Autumn, but ZQN and the surrounding area is increasingly a year-roun
34 kiwiandrew : You can always push back on that. From my understanding it is illegal under the Consumer Guarantees Act for them to refuse to provide a refund since
35 aerokiwi : On the multiple times JQ have cancelled on me, they've given me a full refund and a $100 credit. Though they have stopped giving the credit in Aussie
36 alangirvan : A few once daily flights on those sectors you have mentioned would certainly stir things up a bit. They would probably not bother AirNZ very much. If
37 agent99nzboi : Hmm, no there is definitely a majority of pax that are tourist orientated, and it becomes clear when (if you were lucky to fly on a fine day) the ATR
38 777ER : Could NZ delay the retirement of an owned B733 and operate the extra B733 on one of those routes? The question then turns to, would NZ keep the extra
39 777ER : Just read the T&Cs for stand by fares and here it is 9) Standby Fares are not eligible to accrue Airpoints Dollars™, Status Points or credit to
40 Post contains links 777ER : Is QFs AKL-LAX service being chopped at todays rumored announcement? QF - More Cuts Announced Tomorrow? (by SexyAdonis Feb 15 2012 in Civil Aviation)
41 cchan : Unlikely because of security check requirements at HLZ and PMR.
42 Kaiarahi : Maybe I have a simple mind, but I'm trying to understand why it's cheaper to fly LAX-SFO-AKL return than LAX-AKL return. According to the NZ website,
43 Unclekoru : Yes busy in Summer and Winter with the additional capacity in these seasons, the flight only runs once a week during a significant period of Autumn.
44 cchan : Different fare class?
45 joelyboy911 : I had a similar thought. AKL-PMR-CHC was once a common routing, if I recall correctly. I believe it was flown by Ansett and NZ, and possibly Origin P
46 aerokiwi : Based on existing fares. Lower them a bit and whammo, you've got the locals interested. And come to think of it, yes of course they're tourist orient
47 agent99nzboi : Yeah absolutely, both airports claim to not be viable enough to offer alcohol in their Koru lounges, so don't imagine AvSec will be in any hurry to i
48 QF175 : Per the advice from QF to the ASX, Auckland to Los Angeles will be suspended from May 2012.[Edited 2012-02-15 15:15:29]
49 aerorobnz : It's likely a mixture of older 744 product type and availability of lower fare basis due (slightly) lower SFO loads for PE
50 Roseflyer : That would be interesting timing on LAX-PPT-LAX. I am assuming that would involve a daylight flight either LAX-PPT or PPT-LAX which is not how NZ ope
51 cchan : Perhaps a good incentive for NZ to take up some of their 77W options? Any news re the long haul review?
52 Zkpilot : NZ must be loving this!!! No doubt Tango OrangeStar will start flying the route at some stage.
53 Post contains links and images aerorobnz : http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10785934 Well That's great news. That means AKL won't be quite so tight on gates
54 aerokiwi : Um, or terrible news depending on how you look at it. NZ is going to hike fares now, absolutely no doubt there. This bodes ill for passengers. The NZ
55 aerorobnz : The AIAL should stay well clear, and let things happen by themselves. They need to focus on building enough gates to cope with current/future demand
56 HLZCPH : I've read on a different site that B733 SJE is now stored. Does anyone know of its future? Hopefully not spare parts like NGF!
57 NZ1 : SJE is not stored. It is currently undergoing its end of lease check in CHC. The next operator takes delivery mid March. NZ1
58 Post contains links Unclekoru : I guess not. Approx 8 flights per day now to CHC (depends on the day of the week though), approx half with ATR, half with the Q300. The IVC-CHC-IVC s
59 Post contains images zkojq : Does anyone know the date ZK-NBT will leave for its next operator? I figure it might be worth going to the airport to see her leave for the last time.
60 aerokiwi : I stand corrected. Wow that's a massive boost.
61 NZ1 : NBT was withdrawn from service today. After minor work it will remain parked in AKL before being flown to the desert in the USA for long term storage.
62 Kaiarahi : That was my first reaction too, but I forgot to include that SFO-AKL-SFO is the same price as LAX-AKL-LAX. So (PE fares on the same dates): LAX-AKL-L
63 777ER : HLZ has Avsec secuirty, just not sure how that could work in terms of getting pax from the international side to domestic On several of my CHC-WLG fl
64 Post contains links 777ER : Air NZ plans more flights after Qantas cuts service - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/auckland-c...cle.cfm?l_id=164&objectid=10785950 Today the airline
65 RAGAZZO777 : I'm sure that ANZ already flies AKL-RAR-LAX.
66 NZ107 : If it was true that DL was looking to start AKL services, now would be a prime opportunity to jump on the AKL-LAX bandwagon. I'd have to think that th
67 HLZCPH : So, these two go with a complete cabin arrangement?
68 nascarnut : 30 Apr is start up of 346. Also 22Apr currently TG is planning to operate 773 for 1 day only Effective Jun 11 TG will bring back the Saturday service
69 deconz : They don't seem to be selling the F cabin, which is a shame. Not much F on offer ex AKL these days!
70 sunrisevalley : This is the opportunity for NZ to jump in with a third U.S destination , ideally one that would allow passengers to make it to East Coast and Central
71 777ER : Wouldn't ORD be a better fit with the big UA/AC present there. Star at ORD also seems to be big for European connections
72 cchan : TG seems to change equipment rather frequently. Have they worked out which is the best type for AKL-BKK? They were using 346 a few years ago and then
73 sunrisevalley : Westbound is about 7600NM ESAD good for a 77L , but a one stop for anything in NZ's fleet. I raised the question a few weeks ago that when NZ had the
74 Post contains links macilree : The Minister of Transport has just announced that New Zealand has negotiated new air services arrangements with Japan.
75 MillwallSean : Lets hope the A346 stays. I used to love it and when they downgraded it to the 777 I switched airline. The A346 is a passengers dream. So quiet. The
76 HLZCPH : Yes, I can vouch for that. The A346 is a nice ride.
77 777ER : Same plane service to LAX and ORD would be better and enable two birds to be killed with one stone. Would only add around 1-2 hours to the total trav
78 byronicle6 : 60 Seats in J on the A346 seems like too much! Will be a struggle for TG to sell all these
79 gasman : I'm with MillwallSean on this one. Although the 777 experience isn't exactly awful, I can't think of a widebody I would want to fly on less. It is no
80 Kiwinlondon : QF ceasing AKL - LAX opens the door for EK or DL. Great way for SkyTeam (KE and DL) or EK to offer round the world fare. UA/US/AA might also consider
81 alangirvan : If you are talking about noisy planes - from outside the airport fence, I found that the little Mitsubishi Mu-2 seems to make more noise for its size
82 cchan : If my understanding is correct, that was the main reason why TG switched from 346 to 772 last time.
83 777ER : The passenger experience depends on the airline, not the aircraft itself. I find NZs domestic A320s nice in terms of passenger experience (due to NZs
84 aerorobnz : The loudest aircraft bar none that I have ever heard is a Lear 23. I could barely see it but the noise was epic... Possibly the only way for AKL to g
85 cchan : Did TG operate M11 non-stop BKK-AKL? My impression is that the M11 was on BKK-BNE-AKL alongside a 743/744 BKK-SYD-AKL.
86 gasman : I think we're talking about interior noise. Don't like that. When inside the tube, I want serenity. And the 777 seems loud inside. Exterior noise, on
87 NZ6 : You could keep a 767 and pay for the pilots to remain type rates, engineering spares, crew training, heavey maintenance costs for low yielding routes
88 Kaiarahi : *A suspended AI's application 6 months ago, as AI could not meet the conditions for entry after several years of trying.
89 Post contains links macilree : There is an interesting article in the February 2012 edition of Orient Aviation about Rob Fyfe and Air New Zealand.
90 aerokiwi : Probably not, but airports, thrilled with the potential for substantial additional business, might. I'm not sure how you could argue they didn't, but
91 NZ6 : Would an airport pay the set up cost when JQ may just say in 4 months, if the route it's not working leaving them airport with large costs and no use
92 gasman : Agree, the existence of QF certainly didn't keep fares down. They existed in a cosy duopoly and one never got the impression that it was a route that
93 byronicle6 : QF will start contacting affected passengers from Monday onwards and those affected passengers will be re-routed via SYD MEL or BNE.
94 aerorobnz : That is correct. I wonder if we will not return to a triangular route again at some point.
95 aerokiwi : AKL-WLG base fares went from $49 all-inclusive to $69 within a year, a nominal 40 per cent increase. And on the Tasman they aren't supposed to reduce
96 deconz : and with checked baggage now costing $ 10 more the base has in fact gone up to $ 79!!!
97 aerokiwi : Good point, though that only came into effect late in 2011. Still, proves just what competition can do. Also of note was that NZ kept saying that dom
98 mariner : I think $79 is a bargain. I couldn't drive to Wellington for that. I can't imagine that airlines can make much of a return-on-investment with those f
99 PA515 : Air NZ's intentions for the 789 have changed from 763 replacement to using it on new routes to ORD, GRU, BOM and existing routes to YVR and recently
100 gasman : I think approximately $1700 return was the cheapest we've ever seen on the AKL-LAX route. Not bad, but hardly "bargain basement" - you can often fly
101 xiaotung : So we are likely to see fares from Australia via AKL to LAX/SFO a lot cheaper than AKL-LAX/SFO.
102 cchan : Some years ago, flying NZ from SYD via AKL to HKG is cheaper than buying a AKL-HKG ticket, so I won't be surprised.
103 kiwiandrew : To the best of my knowledge it never ran as a triangular route, it went through BNE in both directions, didn't it?
104 Ben175 : I've just booked NZ PER-AKL-HNL, and I've never flown NZ before so could somebody give me a rundown on the J product offered on the 763 and 772?
105 gasman : The 763 features "recliner" type seats (which don't go flat) in a 2-2-2 configuration. Avoid the front row as the bulkhead severely limits legroom. I
106 Ben175 : Thanks very much! I am really looking forward to trying out NZ.
107 A330NZ : I just saw something on the international arrivals page in the AKL website that confused me It says that at 06:45 tomorrow morning there is an arrival
108 haggis73 : The "AO" flight number that you would have seen on the arrivals screen will be a flight that will be handled by "Air Centre One", one of the FBO at A
109 cchan : Has the plan to retire the 763 between 2014 and 2016 changed?
110 NZ6 : $49 tickets are below cost. If you call that competition then good for you I call it Russian roulette, at some point an airline will say they can no
111 TravellerPlus : TG has always had lower pricing than most others in the market. Their fare levels will genuinely appeal to both the business and the premium economy
112 aerorobnz : The aircraft was longtime AKL resident N18WZ.
113 gasman : Yes - which is why I'm flying them to CDG in a couple of month's time. However I'm not sure the J product is quite on a par, and I'm starting to regr
114 aerokiwi : Keep your sights low and you'll reap just rewards. Moribund European airports have bounced back with a little investment. Granted, the comparison isn
115 Post contains links xiaotung : http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...-as-jetstar-grows-all-around-68423 The article mentions (The reduction will benefit Air New Zealand, now the so
116 gasman : Then it is equally without basis to claim that QF's presence HAS kept fares down. All we can do is look at comparable routes and fares - that's the o
117 PA515 : Looks like it. The 2011 Financial Report says eight 789's are due between 2014 and 2016, previously late 2013 to Sep 2016. Five are due in FY 2014, n
118 aerorobnz : I'm not convinced by JQ starting AKL-LAX. I have heard from some relatively reliable sources that they have already looked it before and decided not t
119 ZK-NBT : It did operate for the first few months of the non stop service July-October 2005, then 346s till March 2008 daily then 772s which have been between
120 aerokiwi : I disagree. There's a fairly sizable body of evidence that competition, even a duopoly, can have a marked effect on pricing. Flipside, the same goes
121 sunrisevalley : I note that you do not mention ORD. I assume you are referring to a service from IAH. As I said in Post 70 why wouldnt NZ make a pre-emptive strike a
122 Kaiarahi : I doubt it - why take mutiple aircraft off a more profitable route. DL doesn't have a west coast hub (it closed LAX in the mid-90s) and all of it's r
123 koruman : People need to give up their fantasies about Air NZ exerting itself on Trans-Pacific routes from Australia. It's not going to happen until CEO Fyfe mo
124 aerorobnz : Yes the cheaper they can get any 77Ls the better, noone else will buy them on the second hand market once they have taken delivery until Fed Ex or an
125 sunrisevalley : Correct, as I have said before I have been playing around with PIANO-X and the 789. Looking at westbound ORD-AKL, the 77L with a 44t payload will bur
126 nzrich : Yes and no PMR was screwed as the 733 was retired from international and replaced by an A320 so too much capacity . No airline will keep an aircraft
127 TravellerPlus : I'm opening this up for debate as I have not flown the new NZ 77W product. Simply looking at the stats, a JQ A330 features marginally wider seats in Y
128 Post contains links PA515 : Can you say where in South America? I tried googling and found nothing, so assume this was via one of your unofficial sources. However, I found this
129 aerorobnz : If the 77L is a bit 'niche' for NZ then the 77W in an 'lower premium/higher density asia/developing market' configuration is the aircraft for South A
130 texan : But even that is only for a short amount of time. The CARs allow for greater than 240 EDTO as long as the airline has been operating the airframe/eng
131 aerokiwi : Oh I agree. The 737 was/is the perfect LCC plane for trans-Tasman, especially for generating a market in the first place that can later be served by
132 sunrisevalley : This constant refrain from NZ on the shortfall in 789 performance puzzles me. My question is what were they expecting to get? So far as I can see loo
133 PA515 : And if GRU-AKL at 12,045 kms is 'non-viable' with a 789, then ORD-AKL at 13,171 kms and AKL-BOM at 12,303 kms won't be viable either, unless for GRU-
134 texan : Under 240 EDTO the route would have to be flown well to the north of the great circle route. Under 180 EDTO it is much worse and PPT is almost on the
135 sunrisevalley : True. The floating of the AKL-PPT-GRU idea makes me wonder if the issue is a reluctance of NZ of operate at EDTO 330 with a twin. They have gone as f
136 Kaiarahi : Why the lower yield config for YVR. J on the 772 is usually full or close to, and U is often wait-listed (despite being a much inferior product).
137 sunrisevalley : There is a standard method of quoting reserve fuel. Extra maybe added if there are possible weather issues at the alternate. This was a common practi
138 texan : It could be. The other thing to consider is that only the 77W can do 240 EDTO right now. So they'd still have to wait for a little while before apply
139 DavidByrne : From Radio New Zealand International
140 aerorobnz : interesting, might one suggest that it is still cheaper than running an airline like FJ/TN and that is exactly what the governments of French Polynes
141 cchan : Since the non-stop SYD-RAR flights started, I have seen a lot more Aussies in RAR, the Cook Islands government should be more than happy to pay.
142 joelyboy911 : Does the schedule allow passengers to easily connect SYD-RAR-LAX? That would surely help pay for the flight, and given QF's withdrawal from AKL-LAX,
143 PA515 : SYD-RAR Sat 2115/0705 Sat, RAR-LAX Sat 2315/1145 Sun (18 hrs) LAX-RAR Sun 2315/0605 Mon, RAR-SYD Fri 1630/2005 Sat (4 days 10hrs) Reasonable stopover
144 cchan : It is generally faster and easier for SYD-LAX passengers to go via AKL, unless one intend to take some time off in RAR, I would assume relatively few
145 joelyboy911 : But wouldn't be so bad if it actually routed SYD-RAR-LAX-RAR-SYD. This might just be infeasible with the current fleet arrangements, but I guess it w
146 ZKOJH : with QF pulling off the LAX route would one say that extra flights from NZ would be operated by the 744 again? and would bring back back the 003/004 n
147 A330NZ : Fingers crossed! I believe it would be the right size aircraft to free up 77E's refitting, or starting new routes
148 cchan : IMHO, as long as the Cook Islands government is willing to underwrite these flights, NZ would be reluctant to extend these services, and NZ may not b
149 gasman : I would love it to be - but no, NZ have decided (as have virtually all the world's airlines) that the 744 is insufficiently efficient (I hate to say
150 aerorobnz : I think they would rather send an extra 744 to YVR and use the 772 from that flight to operate to LAX.
151 Kaiarahi : That makes sense from my experience of YVR loads - but it does risk pissing off PE pax who get the 772 rather than the 77W.
152 sunrisevalley : The 789 never had the range of the 77L. It reaches its MZFW at ~5000nm whereas the 77L is at about 7500nm. Don't gripe about the 10 abreast 77W, we j
153 gasman : Jaysus. I presume in 3-3-3 config? I think I'd actually prefer that to the 3-4-3 77W - which is most certainly gripeable also. I'm 45, 6 foot 3 and 8
154 Post contains images gemuser : Gees, who with??? (So I can make sure I avoid them ) It'd be a toss up! Gemuser
155 jasewgtn : From Stuff.co.nz A Pacific Blue plane flying to Wellington was diverted to Christchurch and declared an emergency landing overnight. Flight DJ68 was i
156 gasman : Similar seating density. But for any given density, fewer actual seats in a line is always preferable - ergo, the A332 wins. Just. ( assuming equal p
157 aerorobnz : At a guess Air Transat, which has 31.0" pitch 16.5" width on their 332 in 3-3-3 configuration. By comparison the NZ 77W 32.0"- 33.0" pitch 17.1" widt
158 aerohottie : I agree it is faster to route via Auckland, but a more compromising schedule through RAR doesn't actually look too bad... SYD-RAR 2115-0700 RAR-LAX 0
159 alangirvan : Well, the original Compass I A300-600s flying around Australia, were 9abreast, which was not too bad on short sectors. They were used on SYD-PER, MEL-
160 cchan : This could only work, in terms of bringing tourists to the Cook Islands, if the SYD-RAR flights run twice a week, otherwise many of the passengers st
161 koruman : Firstly, Air Australia didn't go bust by selling too few seats, but because they had no cash and couldn't earn cash from their aircraft anywhere near
162 Post contains images sunrisevalley : Correct. We paid $140 extra to get the bulk head seats which put our fare at about $Can 820 some $300 less than AC/BA to LHR. For me , the 16.5" seat
163 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Air NZ long-haul passenger numbers fall in January; shares drop'' Air New Zealand, whose chief executive Rob Fyfe will leave at the end of the year,
164 byronicle6 : Is there any further information on the new AKL-DPS route? like schedules etc? As tickets for the route are meant to be going on sale from tomorrow
165 NZ1 : AKL-DPS schedule is as follows: 245 76W _2___6_ 19-Jun-12 29-Sep-12 AKL DPS 2350 0520+1 24/0/206 245 76W _2___6_ 2-Oct-12 13-Oct-12 AKL DPS 2350 0420+
166 ZKOJH : well nothing on the NZ site yet, not even a booking page for Bali, all we know is that it will be a 763 A/c and offer the S2S product, likely to have
167 kiwiandrew : Certainly can't fault them for efficient utilisation of the aircraft with those timings though fairly ugly arrival times in DPS.
168 777ER : Really simple way to cover NZs back is to simply put a small note beside the booking class like what they did before the 77Ws were operating all LAX
169 byronicle6 : Wasn't expecting the red-eye to be ex-AKL. The 1925 AKL arrival means that WLG & CHC are the only domestic connections able to be made same day.
170 aerorobnz : No,I would think these flights would be in addition to either NZ2/NZ6 and instead of going to YVR,be used as something like an NZ4 departure 3 x a we
171 cchan : It makes sense for budget holiday makers not needing to spend an extra night on accommodation in DPS.
172 sunrisevalley : But can they get into their rooms with an 0525 arrival?
173 TravellerPlus : Prices up there now. Starting at $549 each way for seat only, business is $1599 each way. Given the timings, the seats to suit model seems sensible.
174 Post contains images mariner : I'd be one. mariner
175 cchan : They can dump their luggage at the accommodation and go out for the morning until it is check-in time. Most accommodation will store luggage for cust
176 DavidByrne : Don't know if this has been mentioned before, but I note that NZ's AKL-YVR goes up to 5x weekly next summer from 12 Dec (Daily ex MoTu), and it's stil
177 Kaiarahi : So for my next trip to NZL (29/03 - 13/04), YYZ-LAX-SFO-AKL (return) is $500 cheaper in PE than YYZ-LAX-AKL or YYZ-SFO-AKL. Go figure!
178 PA515 : This is a bit weird. The times are about an hour earlier than a four aircraft 763 schedule permits and in conflict with the 03 Feb 'Media Release' wh
179 gemuser : Weird, but not that uncommon. For my Sept trip to th USA, SYD-SFO-LAX-SYD was about $400 cheaper than SYD-SFO-SYD (on UA) & about $280 cheaper th
180 sunrisevalley : Did you craft this yourself or do you have a sharp travel agent?
181 aerorobnz : In conflict?? why?? it WILL depart on the 20th... --->
182 Kaiarahi : Myself. The trick is to look at the NZ U.S. website, then book separate YYZ (in my case YOW) - LAX/SFO tickets on AC, and SFO/LAX-AKL tickets on NZ.
183 texan : From the CAA: Texan
184 kiwiandrew : so, now we know what the other new destination is.... Sunshine Coast/Maroochydore. Interesting. Grrr! Tried to stick a link in, but it isn't letting m
185 Post contains links ZKOJH : Whats with the ''Seasonal Routes'' ??!! is that really going to help bring back money to make 115 million by 2015?? 2 new routes neither of them any g
186 Post contains links ZKOJH : done some digging on where this airport is and came across this bit of information r.e the runway, ''Runway 18/36 is sufficient for A320-200 and B737-
187 nascarnut : Details of new AKL-MCY flights are as follows: Tuesday NZ769 AKL ETD 1000 MCY ETA 1155 NZ768 MCY ETD 1255 AKL ETA 1810 Sunday NZ769 AKL ETD 0630 MCY E
188 Goodbye : MCY is my local airport (we live under the approach path), this is quite exciting news!
189 Post contains images mariner : I like it. I've often wondered why it isn't served from NZ. mariner
190 koruman : Terrific: I first suggested that around 100 NZ Aviation Threads ago!
191 koruman : Truly desperate stuff! Consider the following: AKL-DPS: distance 6743 km, 763, return Business fare = $3198 AKL-HNL: distance = 7063 km, 763, cheapes
192 sunrisevalley : Looking at the A320 load/range tables and the runway takeoff chart for ISA plus 15C there doesn't appear to be any problems . The 5896ft. runway at M
193 mercure1 : Excuse me, I enjoy reading your comments, but why do you feel or believe NZ is focusing or chase business traffic in such markets ? Seems to me the f
194 mariner : I know I'm wasting my time even responding, but HNL is a mature route and DPS isn't. It is not at all unusual for the airlines I follow to offer intr
195 koruman : That's fine if you operate an all-economy A320 or 737 on a short-haul leisure route like Australia-DPS. As for AKL-HNL, I haven't seen a vacant seat
196 mariner : "Probably" being the key word. I'd like some evidence of that. Many of the American posters here would probably claim that Hawaii is "low-yielding" t
197 PA515 : Looks like Tuesday 19th June to me. Have I missed something? PA515
198 koruman : I'm starting to come to the conclusion that Air NZ should operate a sub-fleet of aircraft as a very high-density long-haul aircraft with one or two r
199 byronicle6 : It was originally stated when the route was first announced on 3rd Feb, that the inaugural flight was to be on the 20th June
200 PA515 : Exactly, and what I said in Post 178. Air NZ's 787's will be in a 'leisure' configuration commencing with China / Japan. PA515
201 mariner : They're not all cram 'em in, Koruman. Apple Vacations uses Alaska Airlines for ORD-PVR in a standard Alaska configuration and AeroMexico for ORD-CZM.
202 koruman : I haven't known of any such arrangements outbound from Australia or New Zealand in recent years, and certainly not for a long-haul route like Aucklan
203 Post contains links and images mariner : I don't know why it is "brave." I think it is a sensible business decision to test a popular market at relatively little cost. But Air Australia had
204 Post contains links cchan : Thank you for your contribution in this thread, please continue the discussion in New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 111 (by cchan Feb 23 2012 in Civil
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