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Should BA Buy A340's & A330's.  
User currently offlineMonarch From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 362 posts, RR: 6
Posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

I think British Airways should start to buy A340s & A330s to use as long/medium haul flights. I am also getting fed up of seeing B747s all the time, maybe time for a change?

What do you think!

 Smile



94 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3779 times:

They have one of the largest fleets of B777s in service so there is absolutely no chance for any A340.
Maybe the A330-200 is a future option for thin long haul routes and dense European routes where the ageing B763s fly today.

Regards
Udo


User currently offlineFlyVS007 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 186 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

Didn't BA just recently place a substantial order for Airbus aircraft? (A320's @ Farnborough a couple of years back?)

On the whole though they're trying to streamline their fleet as far as possible, so I don't think they would want to suddenly diversify.

As for your comment about 747's...I don't like BA much but I am so happy that they operate (is it the largest?) such a large fleet of 747's - they're beautiful airliners and still "the King of the jungle."


User currently offlineYOERI1970 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2001, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3705 times:

I don't get this question actually.
Why should they change something that's satisfactory ?
And besides.....their longhaul (747, 777) boeingfleet is relatively young, so why should they change ?


User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3663 times:

... to offer us spotters something new, perhaps?  Wink/being sarcastic

Nah, just kidding, sorry!

Gerardo



dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
User currently offlineFlyTriStar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3639 times:

There is no chance of British Airways acquiring Airbus A340s, as they already operate one of the largest Boeing 777 fleets in the world. In any case, the airline's widebody fleet is still relatively young, with Boeing 747-400s (the -200Bs will be gone soon), 777s and 767s...

FlyTriStar



User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5090 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3620 times:

There is no chance that BA will buy A340/330 as they have already a large fleet of 747/767/777. Beside BA is trying to simplify it's fleet so I don't think that they'll buy any Airbus widebody they're more likely to buy more A320/319/321.





Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8142 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3589 times:

I can definitely see the A330 as this WOULD simplify the fleet, it has after all the same cockpit and handling characteristics as the Airbus shorthaul fleet. In the past BA have benefited from the common type-rating shared by the 757/767 but their 757 fleet is the oldest in the world and half their 757s have just been sold to DHL. When the 757 has been replaced by A320s and A321s the 767s will be old and ready to be replaced as well, and the logical aircraft will be the A330, the best thing Airbus have produced.

On longhaul they will stick to the 777 and 747, although perhaps dispose of the initial GE powered 777s as later 777s have been Rollers.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3421 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

cedar jet: you bring up good points, but doesn't the 757 have significantly more range than the a321?


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineAirbus Lover From Malaysia, joined Apr 2000, 3248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3568 times:

I agree that the A321 has inferior range compared to B757 but the capacity is just about the same. I would suggest that the range to be increased again to some extra 600nm(?) and become A321-300 to increase it chance to replace the aging B757s. The A319 and A320 will remain unchanged unless otherwise requested by customers or fuel tanks to be added?

just my thoughts


User currently offlineMac100 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3534 times:

Why should they change to A330/A340s? Their 777s are marvelous much more spacious and comfortable than the A330s and A340s that I have flown (SR and LH).

User currently offlineFlight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3402 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3535 times:

BA is commited to a longhaul fleet of Boeing aircraft (aka no airbus). They are not going to order these planes just because you are sick of seing their 744's.

User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39906 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3530 times:

It would be nice to see British Airways A340 but they already bought a bunch of 777  Sad
There 747-200s aren't that old are they?
I'd rather see the A340 replace the 767 or 777.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3512 times:

Hi !!!

BA need`s no A 330 or A 340 because they have the Boeing 777 and the 767.

Greetings from Germany

Patrick


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13229 posts, RR: 77
Reply 14, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

No chance of A340's, though I'd personally like to see some A340-500's for long thin routes.
The B767 fleet is in decline, some have already been leased to Qantas, the rest, and the QA ones when the lease expires, could well end up being converted to tankers for RAF use.
Only the few E4 ETOPS B757's will be retained. There could be an outside chance of some A330's in the future, but for now they are going to stick with Boeing for long-haul, Airbus for short-haul.
The B747-236's and some -436's are being replaced by B777's.
A friend and fellow BA employee has a very impressive model of an A340-300 in the previous BA colours, no doubt made as part of the sales pitch by Airbus 10 years ago for the L1011/DC-10 replacements which the B777 won.


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8142 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3481 times:

Actually the A330 would be short haul. BA would lose a tonne of money flying the 777 shorthaul, it's just too much aircraft for the job. There are plenty of short haul routes BA need widebodies, such as Manchester, Brussels, Paris, Edinburgh (occasionally 747, true story), Rome, Athens, Nice, Cyprus et al.

Agreed above that the 767s are fading, some to Qantas, some for tanker trials in the US. So they'll need a replacement. And it's pretty useless to replace a worn out fleet with new but identical aircraft. Is this progress? Especially when a more up to date and efficient aircraft is available (A330).

Finally, the A321's lesser range would suit BA as their 757 fleet doesn't stray very far - mostly shuttle and northern Europe. The longest 757 sectors at BA are to Helsinki or Athens, except for the occasional on-again-off-again trans-Atlantic stuff from the UK regions. The less over-powered A321 would be perfect for London to Frankfurt, Zurich, Madrid etc.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineKing767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3441 times:

"Agreed above that the 767s are fading, some to Qantas, some for tanker trials in the US. So they'll need a replacement. And it's pretty useless to replace a worn out fleet with new but identical aircraft. Is this progress? Especially when a more up to date and efficient aircraft is available (A330)."

What..............?

-Tom


User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3427 times:

The A330 really isn't intended for short haul routes either. When Airbus proposed the A330-500, they received a cold reception from the airlines. Turns out the aircraft was too heavy for short haul routes. If the A330-500 (a shorter A330-200) is too heavy, then I would assume the A330-200/300 would also be to heavy.


"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineEg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1837 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

Yes Tom, the 767 is not as up to date as the A330.

Cf an aircraft designed in the 70s with one designed in the 80s-90s.

A330 - cheaper to run, more cargo, more range, more passengers - more sales.


User currently offlineYoungDon From United States of America, joined May 2001, 414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

The A330-200 is not short range, and the A330-300 is far too big to replace the 767's in my opinion. This will probably be what they get though, to replace the 76's.

User currently offlineAviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1489 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3389 times:

Cedarjet : You are right about BA's likelihood to lose a tonne of money if the B772s are operated on short-haul routes.

However, B777s have been operated very profitably on short-haul intra-Asian routes by many Asian airlines, including SIA and MAS on the 50-minute SIN-KUL route.

And it is a hugely popular aircraft with many who have flown it and noted its spaciousness (unless of course if you fly on TG's B772s which feature 10 abreast seating in Economy Class).

Its cargo carrying capability has also been instrumental in improving the airline's bottom line.

So on specific routes, it is possible for the B777s to operate profitably. SIA has ordered the B777-200 as the replacement for the A310-300s.



User currently offlineAussie_ From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1766 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3362 times:

It'd be great to see them, but I agree with everyone else saying that it isn't likely. The 777 suits them perfectly.

User currently offlineMb339 From Italy, joined Jun 2001, 238 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3365 times:

BA should buy Boeing because BA is the largest customer of Boeing in Europe.

User currently offlineKing767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3337 times:

"Yes Tom, the 767 is not as up to date as the A330."

With the exception of the FBW control system, I see no other reason why the A330 is more "advanced" than the 767. And anyway, new designs like the CRJ for example are still using conventional flight control systems.

"Cf an aircraft designed in the 70s with one designed in the 80s-90s."

I hate to break it to you, but the A330 has it's roots stuck in the 1970s just like the 767, don't you remember the A300?

"A330 - cheaper to run, more cargo, more range, more passengers - more sales."

Cheaper to run? Do you have figures to prove that? Actually I have seen otherwise, with the 767 offering lower overall operating cost's. Yes, the A330 offers more cargo space, but naturally, the 767 carries less, being a smaller plane, and with that offers a more passanger pleasing 2-3-2 arrangement. Yes, the A330 offers more range but not by a huge amount. Heres some figures:

767-200ER:6,670nm
767-300ER: 6,115nm
767-400ER: 5,635nm

A330-200:6,400nm
A330-300:5,500nm

As you can see, the 767-200ER has greater max range than the A332, and the 767-400ER has greater range than the A333, with the 767-300ER not far behind the A332 in terms of range.

Passangers:

767-400ER:245 (3 class)

A330-200:256 (3 class)

Capacity is very close if you ask me. And tell me, is the 747-100 more advanced than the A320 because it holds a larger capacity?

Sales:

767 (From 1981): 835

A330 (From 1992): 193

Your last statement there makes no sense with these figures. I suggest you look at monthly deliverys, and you might find Boeing spitting out just a bit more 767s than Airbus is A330s. But who knows, that could change at anytime.

-Tom



User currently offlineEddy Cheuk From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2001, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3331 times:

Personally, I love Boeing rather than Airbus. But I think the Boeing 757s of British Airways seem getting old, and now is the time for their retirement. Goodbye Boeing 757s, let Airbus A330s continue your great jobs for British Airways!!!

25 Modesto2 : Without getting too detailed, they got 767, 777, 747. What else do they need? A330/A340? Don't think so!!!
26 Boeing747-400 : Ok, this is what the Airbus fans are saying: They have one of the largest fleets of B777s in service so there is absolutely no chance for any A340. Ma
27 David_itl : Boeing 747-400 From a BA press release dated 15th April, 1998: In a further refinement to its longhaul fleet plans, the airline has replaced orders fo
28 Richardw : BA will avoid the A340 to negate comparison with Virgin's A340 services.
29 Boeing747-400 : David_itl, I'm talking about the existing fleet, and not order cancelations. If they cancelled 744 orders and changed them to 777, that is just a chan
30 Oldelwood : What is the big deal about A-320' A-330' or A340'S I have been on all three with BA and Iberia.They are all nice planes but I still like B-737' 767' a
31 Eg777er : I have very accurate figures from Gulf Air with direct operating cost comparisons between the 767-3P6 and the A330-243. The A330 comes up as cheaper t
32 Udo : I agree with Eg777er, their B767 fleet IS ageing, if you believe it or not. The oldest examples will reach 13 years soon, so don't tell me the planes
33 RayChuang : As for BA's future widebody orders, I think they could order the A330-200, primarily for long, thin routes where the 777-200ER is overkill (e.g., rout
34 M27 : I believe Eg777er and Udo have determined that there is no need for BA, or for that matter, any airline to ever order a Boeing aircraft again, what wi
35 M27 : Correction to my post! It should have read,"What with their superior fuel burn, and fbw technology that makes Airbus so efficient, it would be stupid
36 Eg777er : If you believe that, you're wrong. I have nothing against Boeing or its products. My favourite aircraft is the Boeing 777 - it's comfortable, has a gr
37 Mac100 : I agree with Eg777er. I am not sure, however, whether I agree about comfort in coach. My experiences with A330 are limited to a "once and never again"
38 TEDSKI : If BA orders the FBW A330-200/300 with I assume RR Trent 700 series engines instead of the 767-400, there could be a future possibility that they may
39 King767 : "The A330 comes up as cheaper to run in almost every route sector, apart from short hops such as BAH-DXB, BAH-AUH and of course BAH-DOH." I find this
40 Boeing747-400 : King767, exellent post! I couldn't have said it better! Eg777er wrote: I have nothing against Boeing or its products. Excuse me? You seem to have ever
41 Post contains images King767 : "their B767 fleet IS ageing, if you believe it or not. The oldest examples will reach 13 years soon, so don't tell me the planes are young. And what b
42 CX747 : We've got a pretty good discussion going on here! BA & the 767-300ER: First off, I have to say that I don't think British Airways will be retiring the
43 DELL_dude : Well stated CX747 you spoke the truth, and anyone who would doubt you is a fool. DELL_dude
44 Post contains images Flight152 : BA buying the A340 and A330 is the winner of my flying pig award!
45 DatamanA340 : The biggest problem of 335 is its too long wingspan. No carrier would prefer this plane wider than 747 classics for short-hauls. Thus, 330 for 767 rep
46 Post contains images Eg777er : (Again) I have nothing against Boeing. However, I do have something against ignorant, blinkered, fanatical Airbus/Boeing supporters. King767, I would
47 CX747 : I have to say, that this is one of the better discussions we have had hear in a long time. Old: Here is my first question. Is the 747-400 old? Many on
48 CX747 : I have to say, that this is one of the better discussions we have had hear in a long time. Old: Here is my first question. Is the 747-400 old? Many on
49 CX747 : Sorry about the double post on the last one, damn browser. Anyway. Another fact that was brought up, is the one about the A330 outselling the 767. Tha
50 Boeing747-400 : Eg777er, (Again) I have nothing against Boeing. However, I do have something against ignorant, blinkered, fanatical Airbus/Boeing supporters. Well, yo
51 Post contains images King767 : "With regards to the 'age' of the A330 vs the A300, please name me just one system that has been carried over from the A300. One. (Apart from the engi
52 Post contains links and images Klaus : CX747: As for newness of it, and some claims that Airbus invented it, how about it was first used in the Apollo series space vehicles? Not that this w
53 Eg777er : I have the issue of Boeing's customer magazine 'Aero' here in front of me which discusses the improvements to the 767. In terms of cockpit there is th
54 Udo : King767, you call me narrow-minded while you even praise your 767 more than I do the A330? Sorry, but somebody sitting in a glass house shouldn't thro
55 Udo : First of all, I'd like to express my respect to CX747 for his post, one of the very few here which wasn't cramped with blind fanatism, such as King767
56 Shankly : Been following this debate for a few days. Generally very good, although seems like the original post was a bit of a "spotters" wish as opposed to hav
57 Sunnyzsz : Working for BA I don’t think they will buy the Airbus A330 in the near future. And as for the A340, as much as I love it NO WAY! I think these d
58 Post contains images King767 : "you call me narrow-minded while you even praise your 767 more than I do the A330? Sorry, but somebody sitting in a glass house shouldn't throw around
59 King767 : "I have the issue of Boeing's customer magazine 'Aero' here in front of me which discusses the improvements to the 767. In terms of cockpit there is t
60 Boeing747-400 : Eg777er, I have the issue of Boeing's customer magazine 'Aero' here in front of me which discusses the improvements to the 767. In terms of cockpit th
61 The Coachman : Eg777er, I'd like to ask you why you say that if 2 daily 777 flights can't be supported, then why can 1 777 flight and 1 A330 flight daily be any diff
62 Eg777er : Coachman, I'm talking about a 1 daily 777 and 1 daily A330-200, not 300. There is a significant difference. The 777 in BA-Gulf config seats 232 - 17 F
63 VirginFlyer : I think there is something else that hasnt been noticed in this issue. And thats what Qantas, 25% owned by BA, and cooperting heavily with them, are d
64 BruneiAir : Aer lingus also uses the A330 (If BA does get to buy a part of it, but then again maybe BA will want them to get 777s as well)
65 Boeing747-400 : Eg777er, Boeing747-400 - you want figures? Orders since 20 Mar 97 (DL's 1st 764 order): A330-200: 118 B767-400: 47 Hardly successful. It's been explai
66 Eg777er : If the 764 is not supposed to be a hot-seller, than that can equally apply to the A330-200. It has been documented that Airbus concieved the A330-200
67 Post contains images Da fwog : The AC issue with the 763s.. there's no reason an airline can't operate 767s AND A330s, and although the tendency these days is for common types, ther
68 CX747 : I guess, that I am going to say the same thing that Coachman said. I don't see the major difference in BA operating the 777-200 to the Middle East rat
69 Boeing747-400 : Eg777er, If the 764 is not supposed to be a hot-seller, than that can equally apply to the A330-200. It has been documented that Airbus concieved the
70 Post contains images Juul : "But with the 764, it's a little slower, and you've got to give it time" Are you actually trying to tell us that Boeing is satisfied with how the 764
71 Boeing747-400 : Juul, "But with the 764, it's a little slower, and you've got to give it time" Are you actually trying to tell us that Boeing is satisfied with how th
72 Post contains images L.1011 : Udo is right.The A340?no way with that many(Ithink 45) 772s around. As for the A330, with BA still perferring Boeing over Airbus, I'd say the 764 is
73 Oldelwood : I think all these facts and nuts and bolts are a bunch of BS! you guy's keep throwing delta into the picture. Fact is delta serves more pax than any c
74 Post contains images Juul : Boeing 747-400 wrote: "There are many potential customers for the 764, but they are also potential customers for the A332. And looking at the way comp
75 Boeing747-400 : Juul, Not sure what it is you want me to back up. Are you talking about the fact that potential 764 customers are also potential A332 customers? I thi
76 Eg777er : "The 764 just did come out. It has only been for sale for months, and it already has numorous orders, so it isn't doing as bad as you think. And no, m
77 Juul : To convince you once and for all, I went through my collection of Flight international magazines (I have almost all issues which came out in the last
78 CX747 : Okay, guys one last time. The 767-400ER was NOT intended to be a hot seller. Would Boeing like to see more sales? YES, but they aren't going to cry a
79 Post contains images Juul : "The 767-400ER was NOT intended to be a hot seller. " So now you're saying you know the situation and what the aircraft was meant to do better than Bo
80 Jiml1126 : BA's rule: Wide-bodies goes to Boeing. Narrow-bodies goes to Airbus.
81 Juul : "BA's rule: Wide-bodies goes to Boeing. Narrow-bodies goes to Airbus." LOL!! If only life were that simple.
82 Post contains images Heavymetal : A thread like this starts and the AvsB crowd charge in about stats, economics, flight performance and gee it would look so much better in that livery.
83 CX747 : First off, don't mix what I said with what others said. First off, let me repeat myself so you can understand what I am saying. Boeing decided to go f
84 Boeing747-400 : Hey, They don't seem to get it do they? I tried telling them that too. Just don't even bother responding to their useless posts.
85 CX747 : Thanks for the advice, but I guess I love discussions! As for my math, 130-60 is 70. I forgot to to tell you that 10 of the A330 orders were for the n
86 Boeing747-400 : I and King767 were in this for awhile, but I can only take so much nonsense in a discussion. I don't respond to the discussion anymore because it's no
87 Donder10 : CX747 you don't seem to have a clue mate.
88 Eg777er : "Eg777er, Juul, and Udo are too focussed and obsessed with one company, therefore, they are not realistic about the industry. Oh yes. Of course. Someo
89 Spectre242 : BA will in my view end up getting A380s for use on long, ultra high capacity routes, but this is the only airbus widebody aircraft I think they will p
90 Jwenting : SC could in time replace the 767 on long flights. On short hops, maybe 737-900s?
91 Post contains images Juul : "I and King767 were in this for awhile, but I can only take so much nonsense in a discussion. I don't respond to the discussion anymore because it's n
92 CX747 : I would have to agree with you that at the time of its launch, Boeing did expect some gravy to come with this program. No business likes to have its p
93 747_pilot85 : I think that NO WAY should BA ever start to buy 340 and 330's. They are doing sooo well with what they have already (747-400s and 777s). Since they ar
94 Post contains images Juul : CX747, Well, I guess we agree then That should about settle this little war then Time to lay down the weapons Greetings
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