764 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 650 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3714 times:
Well, the 767 isn`t really that old. But I guess that a next generation, just like with the 737 is very likely. In fact if they can get a new 767 generation to match the design of the 777 and allow the same flight deck flexibility as they have now with 757/767 , that might be a really good idea. In the long run the airlines will need an airliner with the size of the 767 and (at least) its range.
FlyTriStar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3694 times:
The Boeing 767-400ER program is not going all too well. They have only received orders from Delta (21), Continental (26) and Kenya Airways (3). Delta and Continental are rapidly taking delivery of the aircraft, so when these are all delivered, what will Boeing do? They have recomended the aircraft as possible replacements for older 767s, but many airlines which want to replace the 767 are opting for the A330-200...
So looking at the current situation, I don't think another deriative would be developed. Anyway, a larger aircraft than the 767-400 would be almost identical to the 777.
777gk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (13 years 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3652 times:
Expect an order for more 767s from CO sometime in the near future as we begin expansion from IAH and to cover Micronesia ops. I could also see a substantial order from DL at some point, but then again the 764s have met Delta's need as a replacement for the TriStar and they could go and say they do not need any more. What you have to understand is that Boeing didn't gamble its life on the 767-400 project, it is just a low-risk progression to expand the scope of the 767 program. The current orders (47 since, correct me if I am wrong, Kenya Airways cancelled their orders) represent enough to pay for the development and flight testing, so in Boeing's eyes, this project was a success. In a lot of areas, the 764 is identical to the new 763s and 762s Boeing is putting out, and they all use the same production equipment, which saves a lot and can make or break a program. Believe me, the 767-400 is a success, and an aircraft doesn't have to sell 1000 examples to be considered one.
DeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8946 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (13 years 11 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3630 times:
I still see American and United ordering the 764 in the near future. Both are substantial 767 operators and I think that the plane could fit into their fleets well. I also feel Delta might be ordering more and be placing some possibly on high-density trans-Atlantic ops.
DeltaOwnsAll From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (13 years 11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3618 times:
I think that the 764 was a great idea...a mini version of the ever successful 777. Its surprising that it hasn't been more widely accepted, anyone know how much more it costs than the 763 or 762? Anyone know what DL will be ordering to replace their MD-11s?
DeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (13 years 11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3600 times:
I also feel Delta might be ordering more and be
placing some possibly on high-density trans-Atlantic ops.
That's what the 777 is for. I think the next substantial order, and in fact the only one we're going to see from Delta for awhile, will be for a substantial number of 777s and maybe a small follow-up order of 764s. The 764 will pretty much be a domestic bird at DL.
It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
Hi_flyer From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 11 months 4 days ago) and read 3582 times:
Any future development of the 767 line is questionable, especially if Boeing goes ahead with production of its 767-sized "Sonic Cruiser." That program is sure to eat up a lot of investment, and I can't imagine Boeing would spend a lot on both programs simultaneously. While NG versions with updated avionics, engines, and the like are a definite possibility, further stretching or shrinking the current 767 size range would begin to interfere with other a/c in Boeing's product line.
BluebellyA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (13 years 11 months 4 days ago) and read 3561 times:
I would have preferred seeing the 777-100LR over a 767-400, actually. It would surely be the range-winner over the 345. Boeing should at least give the 764 the larger engines (Trent 500s?). The CF6s look awfully small on the 764 (they look small on the 763). Just my sense of aesthetics, I guess.
SAA-SAL From Belgium, joined Nov 2000, 356 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (13 years 11 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3508 times:
Talking about programs that aren't doing that well in terms of numbers sold so far:
There's not one day that passes without me wondering if there isn't excess offer on the market. Particularly worrying are the A340-500/600 and B777-200/300LRs that need very high developpement costs.
Sinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1677 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (13 years 11 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3487 times:
I think that the 767 is going to to be a strong line for quiet some time. In military service as the 767-TT (Tanker-Transport)
The USAF is starting to look for a replacement for the KC-135 and the E-3. but this contract will not happen for about 8 to 10. This contract could be for as many as 300 aircraft runing untill 2020.
There could be a market for up to 50 767-TT's with the RAF,RAAF,Norway,and Italy.
Italy is working with Boeing to work out the detals of the 767-TT
Italy has contracted with the US Aircraft Industry to bring us fine aircraft such as (KC-135, KC-10, KC-130, and the Navy's KA-6B and KS-3A.
Mark_D. From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 1447 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (13 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3455 times:
Things happen so quick, very few people even a year ago were talking about an economic downturn, especially in big-ticket civil aviation market.
So it's kinda sad that the 'cruising' days (no pun intended) for the industry are no longer the case at the moment, and it's time for a bit of wondering, even crystal-ball consulting
And in that kind of market climate yeah, it would be remiss to assume sales of 500 or something like, as proof of 'success'. Maybe have to be happy with just a few hundred, here or there, for the time being anyway.
And maybe even all those expected big CO, DL and UA orders get put off, perhaps even for a few years, until more money rolls in to pay for 'em or the existing 76 fleet needs upgrading, whichever comes first.
Crosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2621 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (13 years 11 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3453 times:
Hasn't the B767-400ERX been shelved?
Kenya Airways, the only customer for the aircraft are now investigating other options which in a nutshell are either to convert the orders to the B767-300ER (which they already operate) or order the A330-200 (unlikely)
The B767-400ER does not have the range to fly Nairobi-Europe nonstop, and is of no interest to Kenya Airways.
It would appear that the B767-400ERX would be the model to breathe some life into the B767 programme and stimulate new sales, while at the same time providing more effective competition with the A330-200. However, Boeing have shown no interest in continuing the programme, and due to "slowing developement" of the B767-400ERX they will now be unable to meet the Kenya Airways deliveries.
This would appear to cast at least some dounbt over the future developement of the B767 programme. Time will tell....
King767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (13 years 11 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3449 times:
Yes, the 764ERX (LR) program has been shelved with the announcement of the SC. Kenya Airways has transfered it's 764LR orders to 763ER orders instead, and I doubt they will purchase any more widebody aircraft. Two 763ERs from Boeing have already been delivered.
The distance between Nairobi and London is 3,674nm, well within the 764ERs 5,622nm range. But I guess Kenya still wanted more and went ahead with the 763ER.
"This would appear to cast at least some dounbt over the future developement of the B767 programme. Time will tell...."
YoungDon From United States of America, joined May 2001, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (13 years 11 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3424 times:
I don't think that we will see any more development of either the 757 or the 767, unless the long-range 757-100 would be built, which I think has about a 1% chance of happening. I think 767-400 orders will pick up when AA needs an A300 replacement, but I definitely don't see orders topping maybe 200 at the most. The others will probably come to existing 767/777 operators who want a replacement for their A300's and DC10's.