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AA F/A Launches Petition Drive To Replace Mgmt  
User currently offlinetpac From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 40 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8212 times:

The "sAAve American Airlines" petition at http://www.change.org/petitions/saave-american-airlines is seeking 250,000 signatures calling on U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Sean Lane to replace the carrier's top management.

What do you think about this effort?

[Edited 2012-02-17 19:28:24]

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1038 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8132 times:

There are some guys in PHX who would love the Job  

User currently offlinecaliboy78 From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8133 times:

I think is funny that the one F/A who kept posting those youtube videos is the one that is doing this.... afraid to loose your job then stop doing those things just because you have a union that makes it almost imposible to get fired.... and instead of bashing management and keep listening to that lunatic Glading that keeps feeding all this BS about how AA management made millions while the employees made peanuts.... blah blah blah..... why don't they tell people that the unions agreed to that compensations for the top management and when they realized that they had done they started to feed all this negativity to the employees..... WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES GET USE TO THE PRESENT AND FORGET ABOUT THE PAST....


TAAke pride on what you do and do it well.
User currently offlineBobLoblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8053 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 1):
There are some guys in PHX who would love the Job

AA employees. if they arent careful, are going to find themselves stapled to the BOTTOM of someone else's seniority list.


User currently onlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1038 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7994 times:

Not if US gets a hold of them .We do not do that here. At least the FA's don't ..DOH all the way !

User currently offlinelucky777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 534 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7980 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 1):
There are some guys in PHX who would love the Job

Uggh....dude, why don't you just come out and tell everyone your a LCC flight attendant. And not for nothing, but there's a reason other carriers run from LCC like the plague when Doug Parker and Co. come sniffing around the other airline's backyard, and its not for flattering reasons to say the least. LCC has always been viewed as the redheaded stepchild of Legacy carriers. Keep AA my AA will be coming shortly...does that slogan ring a bell?


User currently offlinedlphoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7898 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 5):
Keep AA my AA will be coming shortly...does that slogan ring a bell?

Yes, of an airline where throughout the BK restructuring process the employee groups and management acted like a unified group with a common interest.
AA employee groups on the other had are trying to convince the BC judge that management is not capable to carry out the restructuring plan they are submitting, guess what, they may end up succeeding. You want to keep AA your AA - stop acting as if you don't.

Fair disclosure - I never forked for an airline, but I have a couple of friends who work for US.

I wish AA and its employees a safe transition through Vh11.

DLP


User currently onlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1038 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7812 times:

I am a USAirways FA..I call it like I see it ..

User currently offlinevegas005 From Switzerland, joined Mar 2005, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7604 times:

The long haul AA Flight Attendants are some of the worst in the industry. I stopped flying AA long haul because of them. Up front in domestic they are generally amazingly good. Not sure what causes this difference but it is dramatic. I don't think these types of employee actions are a good thing , but I hope AA comes out ok in the end for everyone involved.

User currently offlineN211BW From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7587 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 7):
I am a USAirways FA..I call it like I see it ..

Be careful what you wish for. A US/AA merger might not be in the best interest for US/HP employees. AA employees have much more seniority and they will fight to the end to keep that.



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion only and not of those affiliated by any airline, company or organizations
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 4683 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7521 times:

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 8):
The long haul AA Flight Attendants are some of the worst in the industry
Quoting vegas005 (Reply 8):
Up front in domestic they are generally amazingly good

  

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 8):
Not sure what causes this difference but it is dramatic

Seniority. I have nothing at all against "senior" crew, just their concept of "customer [dis]service"



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7415 times:
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Quoting lucky777 (Reply 5):

The guys in ATL would love to get that job to, they have a little better track record at this merger thing then the folks in PHX. All jokig aside an AA/DL merger would create one hell of an airline with no equal, but it probably will newer happen.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3112 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7387 times:

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 11):
All jokig aside an AA/DL merger would create one hell of an airline with no equal, but it probably will newer happen.

I hope not! An acquisition of AA coupled with a lot of former NWers would make it possible/more likely for DL to turn union.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7316 times:
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Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 12):

That I agree with but maybe with DL historical good relationships with their employees could possibly continue with a unionized workforce. All WN work groups are union and they are doing ok. I'm sure it can be duplicated at other airlines.
I think the upsides of a combined AA/DL network outweigh the possible down side of a unionized work force.


User currently onlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1038 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

If DL gets a hold of AA, AA will be toast. DL will break that Airline up so fast. The AA name and brand will def go away as will many jobs. Not the case in an AA/US tie up where the AA brand will remain and so will AA employees . Either way , the doj will never allow a DL/AA combo. The only reason DL is interested in AA is to prevent a merger with US because AA will instantly become a viable competitor with DL if it were to happen. DL has no interest in keeping AA intact .

User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7152 times:
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Quoting etops1 (Reply 14):



What name survives between DL/AA and US/AA is irrelevant to the shareholders who actually own the companies. Simply they don't care as long as it produces a good return. In any merger people are going to lose jobs. AA is laying of 13000 without a merger. In AA/US merger all the people in Tempe AZ can kiss their jobs good bye, in AA/DL it would be the people in DFW. Why do you think they would want to break up AA. I'm sure DL would love to have DFW, MIA, and assets in JFK/LGA and LAX. The only hub i see being dismantled would be ORD, and I'm sure those assets would be shifted to grow MSP and DTW with ORD becoming a large focus city. Would DOJ allow AA/DL? We don't know and none of us can't say for sure that they would not and how much that would cost AA/DL in slots and routes, but that's for another debate. Simply put AA/DL would be a way better company then AA/US. With AA/US you still have holes in the network - Asia, Africa and Oceania. AA/DL route network would cover the entire globe without any holes - Europe, Asia, Africa, South and Central America, Australia, and the best domestic network of any airline with hubs in ATL, DFW, DTW, LAX, MIA, MSP, JFK/LGA, SLC, and large focus cities of ORD, CVG, BOS, MEM, DCA, SEA and any others I'm forgetting. But like I said that is just my opinion and I don't believe a AA/DL tie up will ever happen just that a merger between the two would be a better company then AA/US.


User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3372 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7112 times:

Coulda sworn there were about 9000 US (or) DL/AA threads on here. Not sure why this needs to become yet another one, but...

As for the original topic, a petition is nice, but AA employees better have an idea in mind of who they'd want at the helm instead, if they're to have any chance of this being taken seriously...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1126 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7073 times:

I would have to agree AA is going to reset the clock thru BK they wll come out with costs below UA/DL that is a given. But I have no faith that the managment can take the advantge they will be given and turn it into profitiable airline for the long haul. If managment stays as it is with no outsiders brought in AA will find itself back with the same problem 4-5 years down the road. With the unions going to AA with a buyout offer simler to what UA offered in BK and if AA were to go with that plan they would end up hiring new employees right away and no employees would have to be laid off.

User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7386 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7051 times:
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Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 3):
AA employees. if they arent careful, are going to find themselves stapled to the BOTTOM of someone else's seniority list.

There is no "stapling" anymore with seniority integration. Because of the McCaskill-Bond amendment, both companies must work in the interest of fair and equitable seniority integration
http://afaonevoice.org/images/McCask...xplanation%20FINAL%20for%20WEB.pdf



Made from jets!
User currently offlinedlphoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 18):
There is no "stapling" anymore with seniority integration. Because of the McCaskill-Bond amendment, both companies must work in the interest of fair and equitable seniority integration
http://afaonevoice.org/images/McCask...B.pdf

AA figured out a way around this when they acquired TWA. I am sure whoever buys them can do the same.

DLP


User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3372 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6841 times:

Quoting dlphoenix (Reply 19):
AA figured out a way around this when they acquired TWA. I am sure whoever buys them can do the same.

DLP

McCaskill-Bond came about as a result of what happened w/ AA/TW...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlinemichman From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 466 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6841 times:

Quoting dlphoenix (Reply 19):
AA figured out a way around this when they acquired TWA. I am sure whoever buys them can do the same.

The amendment did not pass until 2008. In fact, the TWA acquisition seemed to be the driving motivation for the amendment.


User currently offlineBobLoblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6779 times:

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 15):
. In AA/US merger all the people in Tempe AZ can kiss their jobs good bye, in AA/DL it would be the people in DFW

No they wont. AA will be the surviving name but it will be run by US mgmt.

Any talk of DL buying or breaking up AA is nonsense. Isnt going to happen.

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 15):
Simply put AA/DL would be a way better company then AA/US.

DL/AA would be a disaster for the public. The USA would be down to two global airlines instead oif three. As for hole in the network in Africa, Asia and Oceania. That doesnt really matter. What matters in Alliances. Qantas covers Oceania, JAL, CX cover Asia and Africa may have profitable routes, but it isnt economically that big a deal, though the Chinese are growing there.

Quoting dlphoenix (Reply 6):
AA employee groups on the other had are trying to convince the BC judge that management is not capable to carry out the restructuring plan they are submitting, guess what, they may end up succeeding. You want to keep AA your AA - stop acting as if you don't.

Excellent quote. Surest way to see AA disappear or broken up is to have the current AA mgmt removed.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16931 posts, RR: 48
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6772 times:

You almost have to admire the years-decades-of willful, blissful ignorance in the face of crystal clear economic reality. AA crew unions are making Greek politicians look like prescient economic wizards. What would a new management team do? Suddenly boost revenues out of thin air in a commodity business?


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7320 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6724 times:

These people may want to be careful what they wish for, because they might get it.

If they do, the unions will be in for a rude awakening. If management is replaced, its not as if a new team is going to come in and give everyone what they want (or even more of what they want). They will be trying to accomplish the same things as the current management only potentially not as well. Then of course the unions will hate the new management and be unhappy yet again.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6911 times:
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Quoting BobLoblaw (Reply 22):

Agree on three points. I was just trying to point out no matter who mergers there will be layoffs, weather that is in DFW, ATL, or PHX. Agree that there will be no break up of AA because a merger like that wont happen. I was just talking about in hypothetical terms if it were to happen that it is my opinion that AA/DL make a better airline then AA/US.

I wish AA employees the best since some of them are my friends. And it sucks that so many people are going to lose their jobs. I do think that after they are out of BK new blood at the top could be a good thing for the company.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5065 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6924 times:

First of all, during a bankruptcy, it's not the judge's call as to the peeople who make up the senior management team. Normally, the team that is running a company at the time the petition is filed is the team that will oversee restructuring.

Now, if the creditors' committee were to lose confidence in the management team, that is a different story. But, the fact that one or more unions have issues with management, despite having representatives on the committee, isn't going to sway the other committee members, which, IIRC, includes 3 large banks, Boeing, H-P, and the PBGC.

Second, the point of bankruptcy isn't to make the workers happy. It's to turn the debtor into a financially viable company while getting as much money as possible for the creditors.

Third, upon exiting bankruptcy, the new shareholders (which should be the larger creditors) will be able to assemble a new management team. It could be the team that oversaw restructuring (which was the case with UA), or it could be a completely new team.

Last, the vast majority of senior management started with AMR/AA, when Bob Crandall was CEO. I know that the unions hated Crandall, while at the same time, they were happy that they were the ones dealing with him, rather than the unions at another carrier. Crandall did foster a culture that attracted many bright, talented people. Yes, AA made some mistakes, especially as fuel prices skyrocketed while competitors were lowering labor and other costs in bankruptcy. But, no one in 2003 saw fuel prices going as high as they have or a deep recession with a sluggish recovery.

And one word to the unions. When you bad mouth management like you do, do you really think that that management is going to say, "You're right. We're a bunch of mean, incompetant fools. Here are the pay raises and increased benefits you deserve."?

Clearly the answer is no. Union leaders can say that they don't mean the insults to be taken personally, but they will be. It's human nature.

I know people who have done all sorts of negotiating, whehter in the legal profession, labor relations, and commercial real estate. When one side starts throwing out insults, the other side tends to dig in their heels.


User currently offlinexdlx From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6648 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 23):

What if AA was bought by no other than WN?


User currently offlineozark1 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5435 times:

Quoting caliboy78 (Reply 2):
afraid to loose

First, it's LOSE not LOOSE--- . This company is terminally ill. What would be the purpose of signing a petition getting rid of management? The same bitter, entitlement filled part of the employee work group will still be around! I don't think it would matter if Walt Disney took over, it's the employees who can't seem to get it through their heads that times-they-are-a-different that need to say adios! They won't though. They'll picket and huff and puff and one day they will be telling their fellow senior citizens in the old folks home "Yeah we had Luxuryjets, and then Eastern had Whisperjets, Braniff had Flying Colors and Pan Am had Clippers. Damn I miss those days."


User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1126 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5264 times:

The employees know that the times have changed and that they will be making less than that of DL and UA but what they dont want is the managment to given another chance to run the airline into the ground cause next time they go into BK it will be the last. They had a chance in 2003 and they didnt make any bold new moves its the same o same o. You need a managment team in place to be creative and find ways bringing more rev. Again dont blame the unions in 2003 the company came to them with a list of paay cuts and the unions took everyone of them that AA offered. And at least with Crandal you knew where you stood with him and his word was gold good or bad.

User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3320 posts, RR: 4
Reply 30, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5052 times:

Quoting xdlx (Reply 27):

What if AA was bought by no other than WN?

Not going to happen. WN could do it easy enough if it was just about money. Problem is that AA right now as it sits is worth less than a cup of coffee.

any actual merger won't happen any time soon with the massive debts and labor issues still remaining to be sorted out. Right now there is two outcomes that AA faces. Asset sale, or arriving the other side of bankruptcy as a valid, competative airline.

All the merger noise is IMO, the first step in selling the debt holders on auctioning off the assets as the way to maximize thier return on value. The fact that so many seats were given to labor is the main stumbling block here, but the other investors have to see $$$ in the routes and gates that AA currently has a lock on. WN for example would pay far more to get AA's southamerican routes and assets than they would for all off AA as it exists right now. No debt and labor issues attached to the assets is a massive incentive.


User currently offlinem404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2220 posts, RR: 5
Reply 31, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4822 times:
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Since that's way more signatures than employees I have to ask why are they expecting outsiders to give a darn? It seems pretty laughable.


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlinegen2stew From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4616 times:

Quoting xdlx (Reply 27):

Funny, now there is a youtube flick about just that. It is titled: " Bob Crandall's return to American Airlines". Warning there is some foul language in the sub-titles. ENJOY!



The only things PAX see is the fare thay paid and the seat in front of them. Gotta love the race to the bottom!
User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4302 times:

Some stupid AA F/As. SOME need to learn to do their job better or be let go. Some FAs are great!

This one purser on my last flight needs to be on their list to let go, AA 991 on Feb 16. What a complete nonsense lady. It took her 1:30 after take off to hand out the tables in Business class. When she asked me if I wanted to have breakfast in the morning, I told her maybe, if I could let her know later. She was like... "We need to know now".


User currently onlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5815 posts, RR: 9
Reply 34, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4257 times:

Quoting gen2stew (Reply 32):
Funny, now there is a youtube flick about just that. It is titled: " Bob Crandall's return to American Airlines". Warning there is some foul language in the sub-titles. ENJOY!

that's awesome....no worries on the foul language...there was quite a bit of that during Crandall's rein  



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4229 times:

Once again glad for my lucky break 20+ years ago at the fork in the career road...took the high road and chose to be a corporate pilot.

You people and your infighting confirmes the airline world is miserable. I'm reminded of this when I'm forced to use any US domestic...with the exception of SW.


User currently onlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1038 posts, RR: 1
Reply 36, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3838 times:

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 33):

Actually in that FA's defense we do need to know if you want breakfast at the moment we ask you .We simply have no time to wait for you to make up your mind .You had 8 hrs to figure it out . We have to get those breakfast trays out and have them collected and stowed before landing. There is a lot to do to get that ac prepared for landing. Just sayin .


User currently offlinesbworcs From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 37, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 36):

Actually in that FA's defense we do need to know if you want breakfast at the moment we ask you .We simply have no time to wait for you to make up your mind .You had 8 hrs to figure it out . We have to get those breakfast trays out and have them collected and stowed before landing. There is a lot to do to get that ac prepared for landing. Just sayin

I think his point is he was being asked 8 hours before breakfast as he was being asked 1.50 hours into the flight. Surely some flexibilty would be good.



The best way forwards is upwards!
User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7386 posts, RR: 51
Reply 38, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3617 times:
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Quoting tonytifao (Reply 33):
This one purser on my last flight needs to be on their list to let go, AA 991 on Feb 16. What a complete nonsense lady. It took her 1:30 after take off to hand out the tables in Business class. When she asked me if I wanted to have breakfast in the morning, I told her maybe, if I could let her know later. She was like... "We need to know now".
Quoting sbworcs (Reply 37):
I think his point is he was being asked 8 hours before breakfast as he was being asked 1.50 hours into the flight. Surely some flexibilty would be good.

Well, that's all fine and dandy, and you make up your mind later, but there might not be a choice, or at least the one you want. We are only provisioned for the number of seats we have and if everyone wants the omelet, then you might be stuck with the cold cereal, if we even have that left. So she's actually giving you the look-out. She could've just said with a smile, "Sure, i'll be back in 3hrs to take your order" and have given the choice to someone else. If you make your selection, and maybe ask to have it just abit later, most likely, we'll take it out of the oven and set it aside for you(If not, then she's a bad flight attendant). Outrage aside.

PS, I don't work for AA, but a competitor.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 39, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3587 times:

Quoting etops1 (Reply 36):
Actually in that FA's defense we do need to know if you want breakfast at the moment we ask you .We simply have no time to wait for you to make up your mind .You had 8 hrs to figure it out . We have to get those breakfast trays out and have them collected and stowed before landing. There is a lot to do to get that ac prepared for landing. Just sayin .
Quoting sbworcs (Reply 37):
I think his point is he was being asked 8 hours before breakfast as he was being asked 1.50 hours into the flight. Surely some flexibilty would be good.



At least we are seeing the attitude first hand!!! I mean come on, I read his reply in seconds and saw that too..   



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinecrosswinds21 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 698 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 38):
Well, that's all fine and dandy, and you make up your mind later, but there might not be a choice, or at least the one you want. We are only provisioned for the number of seats we have and if everyone wants the omelet, then you might be stuck with the cold cereal, if we even have that left. So she's actually giving you the look-out. She could've just said with a smile, "Sure, i'll be back in 3hrs to take your order" and have given the choice to someone else. If you make your selection, and maybe ask to have it just abit later, most likely, we'll take it out of the oven and set it aside for you(If not, then she's a bad flight attendant). Outrage aside.

PS, I don't work for AA, but a competitor.

Absolutely hilarious. I suppose there's always an excuse for the appalling behaviour of some of these F/As. If what you're saying is true, then the normal response that one would get on most non-US airlines would be "no problem sir, you can let me know about breakfast later, but just so you know, your first choice may not be available" and not "we need to know now." They probably just want to know up front how many unused meals there will be so that they can eat those meals themselves.

I tell you, I love AA and have flown with them quite a bit. But I definitely don't love them for the old international F/As. And then they wonder why management wants to replace them with younger F/As who will do the same job, but do it much better, with more enthusiasm, and for lower pay.


User currently onlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1038 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3424 times:

I am sorry ..I did not read his reply correctly ..You are correct if he was asked 8 hrs prior then yes , I would have let him wait and let him know that his choice might not be available at the time we serve breakfast . My apologies.

User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7386 posts, RR: 51
Reply 42, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3374 times:
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Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 40):
If what you're saying is true, then the normal response that one would get on most non-US airlines would be "no problem sir, you can let me know about breakfast later, but just so you know, your first choice may not be available"

True, that would would be the correct manner for the FA to respond, but there should also be a correct way for the customer to explain as to what and when he'd like to eat. I would venture to say that 90% of us are willing to go that extra mile, but meet us somewhere in the middle and let us know exactly what you'd like. We can't read minds and even if we could, we don't get paid enough for that.

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 40):
I tell you, I love AA and have flown with them quite a bit. But I definitely don't love them for the old international F/As. And then they wonder why management wants to replace them with younger F/As who will do the same job, but do it much better, with more enthusiasm, and for lower pay.

I'm not saying it's the correct way for them to act, but when you have a culture, corporate and flying public that craps on airline employees, for things that are beyond their control, you might be a little less accommodating. We're a direct reflection of our customer base. We have great FAs just we have great passengers, and we have awful FAs as we have awful customers. And lets be honest here, your desire to see a younger group is that you'd like to be served young and pretty women, or men if that's your preference(ones who probably wouldn't give you the the of day off the aircraft) to satisfy your lurid fantasies of models serving you your Coke. If you want that kind of service, then fly EK or SQ. Having traveled on many foreign carriers in my years, I've seen on airlines like LH, KL and AF on some of their long-hauls I have some pretty rough looking older ladies there as well. That's seniority buddy, the way it works in the west. But in the US, we actually have laws against age discrimination, and that way is gradually making its way across the globe, much to your dismay I imagine.



Made from jets!
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 975 posts, RR: 5
Reply 43, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

I think I am going to start a petition to replace all the FA's. If their pay demands had not gotten out of sync with reality, AA might not have had to declare bankruptcy.

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 44, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3072 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 43):
I think I am going to start a petition to replace all the FA's. If their pay demands had not gotten out of sync with reality, AA might not have had to declare bankruptcy.

Okay i'm not really on either one's side but AA mgmt had to agree to said pay scales too you know...



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 45, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3067 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 30):
All the merger noise is IMO, the first step in selling the debt holders on auctioning off the assets as the way to maximize thier return on value. The fact that so many seats were given to labor is the main stumbling block here, but the other investors have to see $$$ in the routes and gates that AA currently has a lock on.

So how did UA, DL, US, NW, CO, et al previously emerge from bankruptcy in one piece? AA isn't going anywhere, at least not in the near-to-medium term.

Quoting crosswinds21 (Reply 40):
And then they wonder why management wants to replace them with younger F/As who will do the same job, but do it much better, with more enthusiasm, and for lower pay.

I mean, what large employer wouldn't want to replace staff with younger, more agreeable ones who make 50% less? probably your boss and mine would both like that idea...

[Edited 2012-02-19 18:20:18]


The plural form of aircraft is * aircraft *
User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1126 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2786 times:

LDVAviation you do know in 2003 the company came to the FA'S and said this is what we need in a paay cut they fought and exchanged some words but in the end the company got what they asked for from the FA's so it's their fault they took what managment asked for and now the company is bk because they took the paay cuts the management wanted?

User currently offlinecaliboy78 From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2487 times:

No I don't think that it's the employees nor the managements fault that AA is in BK.... Its the lack of willingness to work together along with the greet and the lack of productivity that most of the AA workforce currently has.... not to mention the ridiculous contracts that make it almost impossible to get someone fire.....

In 2003 AA wanted some pay cuts and some concessions and yes at that time it looked good for the company to ask for what they asked for.... AA didn't know that the economy was gonna get this bad nor they anticipated the oil to go up as much as they did.... So AA wanted to negotiate and get things done outside court and for 5+ years that didn't happen so here we are in BK.... So yes I blame the unions for driving AA to BK for not willing to relax some of the rules and I think that all the employees are gonna get nothing but a short stick.... No pensions, longer hours, relaxed scope... etc. etc. etc.



TAAke pride on what you do and do it well.
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