UnitedTristar From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1240 posts, RR: 4 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7373 times:
AF Cabin Crew From French Polynesia, joined Sep 1999, 1036 posts, RR: 38 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7349 times:
Ia Orana !
Air France also flies CDG-LAX-PPT 3 times a week with a 777-200ER.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7342 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7342 times:
The two routes where LAX has been a stop are routes from Brazil to Japan, Varig and VASP & New Zealand and LHR with Air New Zealand.
macilree From New Zealand, joined Dec 2006, 243 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7126 times:
I would not count the operations by Air Tahiti Nui and Air France as fifth freedom. At both ends of the two routes cited above they are operating from French territory to the USA.
point2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1958 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7103 times:
Quoting macilree (Reply 5): I would not count the operations by Air Tahiti Nui and Air France as fifth freedom. At both ends of the two routes cited above they are operating from French territory to the USA.
Interesting - it would seem that France considers Tahiti the same as the U.S. considers Guam?
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 89 Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7002 times:
The Singapore and Korean routes don't really count. They depart LAX but take no advantage of fifth freedoms there.
Does AF still serve MIA-PAP? Same deal as PPT tho - they are both DOMs (overseas departments) of France, and are the same country.
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3854 posts, RR: 13 Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7001 times:
A few years back AC looked at YYZ-LAX-SYD, but the bilateral doesn't permit using LAX as a departure point, only SFO.
Given the meagre yields on LAX-SYD this might have been a blessing. UA, QF, JQ - who else operates LAX-SUB ? CO possibly. At any rate AC settled on a daily YYZ-YVR-SYD with a 77L and it's doing famously.
flymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6283 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6954 times:
Quoting gigneil (Reply 8): Does AF still serve MIA-PAP? Same deal as PPT tho - they are both DOMs (overseas departments) of France, and are the same country.
Yes AF does MIA-PAP and seasonal MIA-SDQ. Haiti is not part of France in any way.
From LAX isnt Thai starting service to ICN, and also Malaysian to NRT?
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
N211BW From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 16 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6866 times:
For a time Korean Air did ICN-LAX-LAS
Also Qantas SYD-LAX-JFK
[Edited 2012-02-19 19:08:43]
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion only and not of those affiliated by any airline, company or organizations
legacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1827 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6865 times:
N211BW From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 16 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6832 times:
Korean Air also has ICN-LAX-GRU
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion only and not of those affiliated by any airline, company or organizations
We dont have PAX rights on LAX-JFK-LAX we can only carry pax in-bound from SYD/MEL/BNE/AKL
Also we are upgrading the aircraft used on the route from A333 to B744N (which is our 'A380 Style' cabin product)
Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
sunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 3946 posts, RR: 4 Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6710 times:
Quoting JQflightie (Reply 14): We dont have PAX rights on LAX-JFK-LAX we can only carry pax in-bound from SYD/MEL/BNE/AKL
Also we are upgrading the aircraft used on the route from A333 to B744N (which is our 'A380 Style' cabin product)
So from which city in Australia will this aircraft originate?
747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3301 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6644 times:
Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1): This one is sadly coming to an end soon.
That is too bad, I was started to like QF A332s @ LAX, when I visited Los Angeles.
koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 2979 posts, RR: 6 Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6515 times:
Quoting point2point (Reply 6): Interesting - it would seem that France considers Tahiti the same as the U.S. considers Guam?
In terms of aviation traffic rights, yes.
But the difference is that while both are full citizens of their nation, French Polynesians actually get to vote in the French Presidential election, whereas Guam residents "vote" but that vote is not counted in the US Presidential election! In actual fact, Guam could/would/should have held the balance of power between Al Gore and George W Bush, but was denied a democratic franchise.
Moreover, French Polynesians vote for one senator and two congressmen in Paris, whereas the people of Guam elect a delegate to the House of Representatives in Washington DC - who isn't allowed to vote!
So it seems quite normal to me that PPT is considered a French port for the purposes of Air Tahiti Nui's traffic rights, whether you support independence from France or autonomy within it.
But until the day when the people of Guam and American Samoa actually have a vote in Washington DC, it seems outrageous to me that routes like PPG-HNL are considered "domestic" for US airlines but "cabotage" for foreign carriers.
I'm old-fashioned. I find it shocking when you can be a citizen of a major world democracy, but denied the right to vote.
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 89 Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5622 times:
But with full right to pay your federal income taxes.
Hate to be pedantic but officially this flight is MEL-AKL-LAX, with MEL-AKL on a 737. The A330 positions from SYD, but under a different flight code.
But yes, this will end in May when the aircraft used will most likely route BNE-LAX-JFK-LAX-BNE with QF107/8 being SYD-LAX-JFK-LAX-SYD, the same as the current set up with the A330
g500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 720 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4889 times:
Quoting JQflightie (Reply 14): We dont have PAX rights on LAX-JFK-LAX we can only carry pax in-bound from SYD/MEL/BNE/AKL
Also we are upgrading the aircraft used on the route from A333 to B744N (which is our 'A380 Style' cabin product
So what's the point of Qantas flying LAX-JFK-LAX? is that soley a tech stop?
koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 2979 posts, RR: 6 Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4839 times:
Quoting g500 (Reply 22): So what's the point of Qantas flying LAX-JFK-LAX? is that soley a tech stop?
Qantas' passengers won't tolerate American service standards on LAX-JFK, and so the airline operates it itself.
That works OK, because whereas SYD-JFK would not fill even an E-jet, they can feed in passengers from four separate origins (Sydney, Melbourne, Auckland and Brisbane) at LAX.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7342 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4763 times:
Quoting gigneil (Reply 8): The Singapore and Korean routes don't really count. They depart LAX but take no advantage of fifth freedoms there.
Many people I know have flown Singapore Airlines from LAX to NRT because its "Singapore Air".
25 joelyboy911: Does TN have rights to carry pax on AKL-LAX? And AKL-CDG? I don't think any of that constitutes a 5th freedom though. I may be confused. I find it int
26 point2point: I'm very much in agreement with you on principle here, my friend. But in order to participate in D.C. politics, that body has to be a state, and the
27 connies4ever: The sun never sets on the American Empire, does it ?
28 steex: I believe the complete list of routes using fifth freedom rights at LAX is as follows: AKL-LAX-LHR - Air New Zealand ICN-LAX-GRU - Korean Air ICN-NRT-
29 The777Man: Not true for Singapore; they frequently have ads in the Los Angeles area featuring their LAX-NRT service. The777Man
30 JAGflyer: Prior to LAX getting a non-stop 777 flight to Tel Aviv with El Al, there used to be a 767-200 which operated TLV-YYZ-LAX-YYZ-TLV. I travelled on the Y
31 heathrow: I don't believe QF has 5th freedom on LAX JFK
32 N1120A: Yes, and has done for many years. Indeed, it was operated for quite a while by the 773A, which was a major oddball route for that plane. No. France c
33 Viscount724: AF or TN PPT-LAX-CDG is the equivalent of UA operating GUM-NRT-ORD. The GUM-NRT and NRT-LAX sectors are both 3rd/4th freedom covered by the U.S.-Japa
35 RyanairGuru: I actually agree with this. If QF's flyers were so upset to be on AA what are they going to do? Fly UA or DL, who have similar standards. Ceasing LAX
36 g500: well the way Qantas has been slashing costs don't be surprised to see JFK go. Too bad Alaska doesn't operate LAX-JFK, because they have a better prod
37 EddieDude: Does the definition of "organized unincorporated U.S. territory" include "self-governing commonwealth associated with the United States of America"?
39 DTWLAX: Well, what do you suggest? The plane to just sit at LAX for 15-16 hours? QF can make money by running it to JFK.
40 RyanairGuru: Exactly. By the nature of the time zone changes etc it is necessary for flights from Australia to arrive in LAX in the morning and depart around midn
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