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Virgin Atlantic UK Regional Airways  
User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 14825 times:

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articl...will+replace+bmi+says+branson.html

Found this lovely picture of a possible, Virgin Atlantic Regional Boeing 737-700 Jet ??

Would be a lovely livery for "Virgin Atlantic Airways Regional"




Hello Beautiful !!!
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 14838 times:

Quoting virgincrew (Thread starter):
Found this lovely picture of a possible, Virgin Atlantic Regional Boeing 737-700 Jet ??

Would be a lovely livery for "Virgin Atlantic Airways Regional"

Wow what a fantastic looking livery!!! Would sure be great if they did this!

[Edited 2012-02-20 07:09:56]


3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlineliverpoola380 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 14818 times:

I think it would be great for Virgin to devlop a feeder network to VS with a similar product to Virgin America. Its competitive in Europe at the minute, high taxes, high fuel costs and lots of competition.

Do Virgin have the desire to even make it work?


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 14802 times:

That is gorgeous.

They wont do it though.

Maybe if they bought bmi and applied it to some IAE-powered A319s though? Mmmmm.  



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14713 times:

Well this is what Virgin have said today:

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articl...will+replace+bmi+says+branson.html



Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14649 times:

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 4):
Well this is what Virgin have said today:

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articl....html

A raft of ERJ190LRs or C Series on feeder shuttles in and out of LHR. Nice.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14651 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 5):
A raft of ERJ190LRs or C Series on feeder shuttles in and out of LHR. Nice.

I wonder if any chance of seeing them at LGW?



3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14560 times:

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 6):
I wonder if any chance of seeing them at LGW?

Would be fantastic if he served both LGW & LHR - but I think his aim is to increase the LHR - regional links. With VS's Leisure Routes, VS are trying to expand them directly at regional airports with the LGW/MAN Boeing 747 fleet - they operate at MAN & GLA already.

Also found this one:






Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14515 times:

Quoting virgincrew (Reply 7):

Would be fantastic if he served both LGW & LHR - but I think his aim is to increase the LHR - regional links. With VS's Leisure Routes, VS are trying to expand them directly at regional airports with the LGW/MAN Boeing 747 fleet - they operate at MAN & GLA already.

Also found this one:

Oh right I see, anyway im sure they would add LGW sometime sooner or later. (I hope!)  

That looks good, but I still think the 737 with that awesome looking livery is the best. Imagine if they put that livery on the 747's and A340's!!! Would simply be the best!   



3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19196 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14486 times:

This almost certainly won't materialise, but you may dream.  

And even if it did, the livery in the opening post, which would undoubtedly be expensive to produce and maintain, would only help it lose money on its intra-UK services.  



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineaamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1059 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14436 times:

I'm curious - what slots would VS be using for this new regional feeder?

So far, the only specific part of the plan is to have the IAG purchase of BD blocked. But doesn't that just leave us in a situation where the LH group continues to control those slots thru a perpetually loss-making subsidiary? So what are LH to do if the IAG purchase is blocked? Try selling the entire BD unit to another carrier? Only two bids were made - by IAG and VS, and it would seem to me that if VS plays a part in dismantling the IAG purchase, LH may not want to sell to VS (for a lower price, at a later date, during which time more red ink has been spilled).

The outcome I can see from a blocking of the IAG purchase is that a few more BD slots are transferred to LH units, and the remainder are sold to whoever wants them. Clearly BA would be interested in picking up more LHR slots, and has been willing to pay for them in recent years. That alone would limit VS in their ability to secure slots for new feeder services. Throw into the mix a US carrier or two interested in a couple of additional slots, and some other airlines looking to get slots that are better timed than their current services.

That would be a huge undertaking. Even just 3x daily to MAN, EDI, ABZ would require 9 daily slot pairs (to 'replace BD'). Don't forget there are nasty monopoly situations on GLA and NCL, too. So let's say you serve all these destinations 3x daily (have a morning, afternoon and evening flight for each) to start, that's 15 daily slot pairs to secure. What's BD currently have, 50 daily or so? Purchasing about a quarter or a third of BD's slots will be a big undertaking, and that's just with a very basic level of "service" to these new regional destinations. Then you have to consider the question of fleet utilization: Would the subfleet of aircraft needed for the regional flying be busy enough operating 3x daily to all these stations? A fleet of say five aircraft would probably have a fair bit of downtime - so perhaps you should look for additional frequencies to keep the fleet in the air making a little bit of money?

Of course, there's nothing really stopping VS from providing some of the competition that's needed tomorrow, today. Yes, you can't easily start operating multiple daily services to multiple new regional cities, but it's not impossible to launch a couple of daily flights to GLA, a city desperately in need of competition since BD pulled out of that market...


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3199 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14373 times:

How on Earth, does feeding ERJs into LHR make money? Anyone who thinks they are remotely serious is naive in the extreme. BMI lost millions despite being the number two carrier with a loyal client base and massive codesharing with STAR. SRB has NO day to day say with VS anymore! This is a classic smokescreen to try and prevent BA saving what's left of BMI. Deplorable behavior to raise people's hopes with comedy like this.

User currently offlineliverpoola380 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14342 times:

As much as I love SRB for what he has achieved I think this is merely a PR game again

User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19196 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14318 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
How on Earth, does feeding ERJs into LHR make money?

Obviously it doesn't, unless you have extremely high-paying passengers.

[Edited 2012-02-20 08:15:33]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14244 times:




Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently offlinevirgincrew From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14223 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
How on Earth, does feeding ERJs into LHR make money? Anyone who thinks they are remotely serious is naive in the extreme. BMI lost millions despite being the number two carrier with a loyal client base and massive codesharing with STAR. SRB has NO day to day say with VS anymore! This is a classic smokescreen to try and prevent BA saving what's left of BMI. Deplorable behavior to raise people's hopes with comedy like this.

No-one mentioned aircraft type ??

How does SRB have no say in day to day running of VS - he has the 51% majority share of the company.



Hello Beautiful !!!
User currently offlineaamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1059 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 14225 times:

Are there any pictures of a Avro RJ100/85/70 in Virgin colours? After all, it should be 4 Engines 4 Shorthaul.

  


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 14128 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 10):
but it's not impossible to launch a couple of daily flights to GLA, a city desperately in need of competition since BD pulled out of that market...

It's a 60 minute flight that patently can only support one carrier. What's the competition going to do that BA doesn't ? Throw in a b*** job ?

If British Airways isn't good enough for Britain then frankly the Scots need to get their bums in gear and create an airline based in Scotland.



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineaamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1059 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 14048 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 17):
It's a 60 minute flight that patently can only support one carrier. What's the competition going to do that BA doesn't ? Throw in a b*** job ?

I should have emphasized that the "need for competition" bit was not my own assertion or opinion.  

BD pulled out of the GLA route for a reason - it was losing money as if there were no tomorrow. That should be a deterrent to anyone else who thinks they could have a crack - how does one operate LHR-GLA profitably, when an airline operating multiple daily flights with something like 25 different flight numbers/airline codes on them couldn't do it? It's not like BD was an upstart trying to get a foothold into the LHR-GLA market, it had been there for many years already...


User currently offlineMCO2BRS From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 14049 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 16):

Of course there is!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © J.Laporte



Cheers,

MCO 2 BRS


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3199 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13915 times:

SRB is not involved in the day to day running of VS. That is Mr Ridgeway's job. The only possible routes VS would even consider would be routes served by BA (sound familiar? ) and well served by EZY,CityJet and flybe out of other London airports. The idea that he could run 3-4 rotations to ABZ just to feed long haul is pants, and I doubt he'd get enough P2P to balance the books given APD and a frail domestic economy. Look at the worries at flybe to see where domestic flying is at the mo.
I am still waiting on the GLA-JFK we were promised when BA pulled out. VS now lack credibiltiy, all mouth and no trousers alas, however if I may, a good operation in the markets on which they compete and I wish them well. It's just the PR that winds me up.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13915 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 18):
I should have emphasized that the "need for competition" bit was not my own assertion or opinion

It's ok it was only meant tongue in cheek !

This is all too much for a BA boy, I feel like i've stepped through the looking glass into an Austin Powers movie.

I shall have to go and lie down in a darkened room.



Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineslinky09 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2009, 826 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13726 times:

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 17):
It's a 60 minute flight that patently can only support one carrier. What's the competition going to do that BA doesn't ? Throw in a b*** job ?

Mikey, are you really Michael O'Leary?

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 18):
BD pulled out of the GLA route for a reason - it was losing money as if there were no tomorrow.

Indeed - and for those who say that prices have shot up, they've probably reached something more closely aligned to the actual cost.

Quoting mikey72 (Reply 21):
I shall have to go and lie down in a darkened room.

I've often thought that you shoud!

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 11):
Deplorable behavior to raise people's hopes with comedy like this.

I couldn't agree more - as a confessed VS fan and very frequent traveller I think UC is fantastic and VS can be fantastic - I wouldn't fly with anyone else where VS offers an option. But I am amazed at how off message this is getting, it seems clear that while VS had opportunities to buy BD it didn't, and it's only strategy is to spoil here, throw muck around, hope the regulators spin off cheap slots one way or another so that gain VS an unfair advantage. As you say, deplorable tactics. My suggestion for SRB and Mr Bean Counter Ridgeway is:

- Focus on growing your airline in the ways everyone else does - invest or seek investment, buy slots, stop mucking up your aircraft orders and cabin refits, and add routes and be competitive.
- Sort out an alliance membership as soon as possible.
- Concentrate on the quality of your service and its consistency.


User currently offlinejamesontheroad From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 541 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13666 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 18):
BD pulled out of the GLA route for a reason - it was losing money as if there were no tomorrow. That should be a deterrent to anyone else who thinks they could have a crack - how does one operate LHR-GLA profitably, when an airline operating multiple daily flights with something like 25 different flight numbers/airline codes on them couldn't do it? It's not like BD was an upstart trying to get a foothold into the LHR-GLA market, it had been there for many years already...

I think you misunderstand the very particular problem with BD's LHR-GLA route. It was precisely because they were carrying 25 (or whatever) different flight numbers that they were losing money. The route was principally being used to feed other Star Alliance carriers (AC, CO, UA, NZ etc...) who paid BD a fraction of what it actually cost per passenger flown. Only a small proportion of the passengers were BD-revenue customers, either O&D between the two cities or connecting onto BD's esoteric short and mid-haul network at LHR.

VS might be in a better position because they would be feeding their own long haul network, so every passenger on the plane would be contributing to the airline's bottom line.

Those fearful of a lack of competition between London and Glasgow should remember that BA continue to get stiff competition from U2 who have multiple daily flights to STN, LGW and LTN. The Flexi fare is also helping U2 gain ground against BA with business travellers.


User currently offline767eng From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2010, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 13655 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 10):
I'm curious - what slots would VS be using for this new regional feeder?

So far, the only specific part of the plan is to have the IAG purchase of BD blocked. But doesn't that just leave us in a situation where the LH group continues to control those slots thru a perpetually loss-making subsidiary? So what are LH to do if the IAG purchase is blocked? Try selling the entire BD unit to another carrier? Only two bids were made - by IAG and VS, and it would seem to me that if VS plays a part in dismantling the IAG purchase, LH may not want to sell to VS (for a lower price, at a later date, during which time more red ink has been spilled).

The outcome I can see from a blocking of the IAG purchase is that a few more BD slots are transferred to LH units, and the remainder are sold to whoever wants them. Clearly BA would be interested in picking up more LHR slots, and has been willing to pay for them in recent years. That alone would limit VS in their ability to secure slots for new feeder services. Throw into the mix a US carrier or two interested in a couple of additional slots, and some other airlines looking to get slots that are better timed than their current services.

That would be a huge undertaking. Even just 3x daily to MAN, EDI, ABZ would require 9 daily slot pairs (to 'replace BD'). Don't forget there are nasty monopoly situations on GLA and NCL, too. So let's say you serve all these destinations 3x daily (have a morning, afternoon and evening flight for each) to start, that's 15 daily slot pairs to secure. What's BD currently have, 50 daily or so? Purchasing about a quarter or a third of BD's slots will be a big undertaking, and that's just with a very basic level of "service" to these new regional destinations. Then you have to consider the question of fleet utilization: Would the subfleet of aircraft needed for the regional flying be busy enough operating 3x daily to all these stations? A fleet of say five aircraft would probably have a fair bit of downtime - so perhaps you should look for additional frequencies to keep the fleet in the air making a little bit of money?

Of course, there's nothing really stopping VS from providing some of the competition that's needed tomorrow, today. Yes, you can't easily start operating multiple daily services to multiple new regional cities, but it's not impossible to launch a couple of daily flights to GLA, a city desperately in need of competition since BD pulled out of that market...

I believe Virgin's current strategy is to block the IAG/BMI deal in the hope that eventually BMI will fold forcing the slots onto the open market without the need to take on the BMI staff.

If they really wanted BMI they wouldn't have put in such a low bid for the business. They are right that IAG buying BMI will be bad for consumers on some routes but it's not Virgins right to be given some sort of help to address this.

They need to put a competitive business in place and drive down the prices themselves. If they can't do this then really it's tough and they need to stop posturing and complaining all the time.

I don't see Virgin operating any other regional flights or taking on Ryanair or Easyjet in their anti-consumer monopolised routes. Virgin need a change of mindset and to put their energies into taking on their competitors rather than constantly playing the underdog card.


25 Post contains images mikey72 : Excuse me Slinky but I've been saying that all along !
26 speedbird9 : I wouldn't put it past SRB and besides the introduction of a competitor is hardly going to make the EU block IAGs bid especially with the expansion o
27 caaardiff : Just a suggestion, but with all the rail upgrades talk going on recently, couldn't VS tie up with Virgin Trains (If they don't already) and build a ne
28 Post contains images TCASAlert : Dear God that first image looks bloody awful! Horrendous, I hope it doesn't happen. However don't I recall just yesterday many saying that SRB would h
29 eugegall : I really like the first design. The only thing I'd change, I'd make the engines ALL red.
30 Post contains images virgincrew :
31 Post contains images faddypainter : I'm sorry but old Scarlet Lady there doesn't look particularly dashing stretched totally out of proportion over the fuselage with a row of windows pl
32 Post contains images VS11 : Shouldn't the name be "Virgin Britannic", following the Virgin Atlantic naming logic?
33 garpd : Agreed Agreed also. IMO, VS would only have robbed BMI of their slots and closed down the airline done. They have no interest in operating internal f
34 antonovman : I fully agree and Branson wants to think of what he is doing. He is playing with peoples livelihoods. All the BD staff could end up on the dole with
35 bennett123 : IMO, if he had wanted to do this, then he could have done so. This would have entailed either bettering the BA, or bidding earlier, either to LH, or e
36 ACdreamliner : Unfortunately they did and it was called Globespan. R.I.P...
37 antonovman : And I worked for them till the end R.I.P.... One of the nicest jobs I ever had
38 mikey72 : That's true but I also think it would be a worthwhile gesture from BA given the situation with slots at LHR to offer VS the opportunity to purchase s
39 antonovman : WOW Mikey72, have you been drinking this morning ??
40 mikey72 : Lol, no. I'm not totally unreasonable. I've always said it's VS's PR and not the airline itself that I have a problem with. If all this is anyone's f
41 Post contains images slinky09 : Ditto Oh why not, it helps liven up my day!
42 Post contains images scouseflyer : Haven't there been several attempts at a short/medium haul Virgin airline already, Virgin European, Virgin Express and the flying yellow banans of Vir
43 Post contains images virgincrew : Yes, but Virgin Express and Virgin Sun were not regional UK airlines. Virgin Sun was basically a charter airline for European holiday destinations &a
44 bestwestern : let's not forget Virgin to Athens, and virgin from London City to Dubin. Also let's not forget Virgin from London Luton to Dublin and Eindhoven (?) us
45 BrianDromey : I agree. If there was any way that LH could have brought VS and BD into Star in a viable way and avoid the embarrassment of 'failure' at BD they woul
46 mikey72 : I understand 'all that' but frankly I don't care about 'all that' either. (no offence to you) Along with BD came 11% of slots at arguably the worlds
47 Post contains images virgincrew :
48 jfk777 : SMB may have sold Lufthansa a 12 year old Labrador with flees but LH is leaving with lots too. How many slots are the LH group airlines owners of now
49 mikey72 : Just goes to show how messed up the EU is. UK domestic has to take a back seat at LHR because of lack of slots but hey at least I'll never run out of
50 bestwestern : LH used the slots for their biggest advantage, and nobody in Scotland complained when Glasgow became Geneva.
51 skipness1E : I need to get home more often. Presumably there is now more Toblerone than hitherto available?
52 Post contains images PlymSpotter : What are they flying with that many wheels, lead ingots?
53 lhr380 : Will believe it when I see it!
54 Post contains images mikey72 : Well certain parts of the UK are a bit confused at the moment. Maybe they should have complained as they are now. It's like government cronies still
55 mikey72 : So it's ok for an airline that is based in neither Scotland or England (and thus have no allegiance to either) to purchase BD extract what it wants th
56 gkirk : Anyway, there is still plenty of competition between LON and GLA anyway....easyJet to Luton, Stansted and Gatwick..
57 bennett123 : IMO, the biggest factor will often be the rail competition. If you fly, you have to factor getting to the Airport, (generally not in city centres) thi
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