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A319 NEO And 737 MAX 7 Future  
User currently offlinekliakh01 From Russia, joined Feb 2012, 13 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 11 hours ago) and read 6183 times:

Hi all,
what do you think is the future for A319 NEO and 737 MAX 7?

Seems like all the recent orders of Airbus and Boeing were for a bigger aircraft and that the aircraft below 150 seats are less and less attractive to airlines.

Thanks for your comments on this thread!
Konstantin

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30978 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 10 hours ago) and read 6081 times:
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For many carriers, the trip costs between an A319 / 73G and an A320 / 738 are so close that the extra seats the larger plane offers are effectively "free" so any extra seats they can sell have high margins. And if they don't sell them, they're really no worse off.

The A319/73G do fly farther than their larger sisters, but considering that the A320neo and 737-8 will see a nice range boost thanks to lower fuel burn, that might marginalize the smaller planes even more on current routes. The A319neo and 737-7 will see a range boost, as well, so they may open up new, longer-range missions.


User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 771 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5395 times:
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As there are currently no planes available that have a lower CASM, the decision to offerte the A319NEO and 737MAX7 doesn't seem odd to me. Also, the most suitable plane that will become available soon (C-series -300 series) but the maximum seating capacity is only 145 whereas the 737 and A320 have a seating capacity of up to 215.

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5173 times:

Range and performance will ensure there is enough demand, add in that a 150 seater only needs three cabin crew and I do not worry about the A319 too much, nor does Airbus mind if an airline tells them early enough if they want the A319 or the A320...

User currently offlinekliakh01 From Russia, joined Feb 2012, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

By the way considering what you have said sounds like CSeries have mistaken their models.
If you take CS100 and CS300 they have the same range and probably the same CASM, thus what would be the reason for an airline of buying both models instead of going for a bigger one directly?


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5017 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 2):
As there are currently no planes available that have a lower CASM, the decision to offerte the A319NEO and 737MAX7 doesn't seem odd to me. Also, the most suitable plane that will become available soon (C-series -300 series) but the maximum seating capacity is only 145 whereas the 737 and A320 have a seating capacity of up to 215.

I don't think I'd like being in a 320 with 215 seats ! 321 maybe.

Quoting kliakh01 (Reply 4):
By the way considering what you have said sounds like CSeries have mistaken their models.
If you take CS100 and CS300 they have the same range and probably the same CASM, thus what would be the reason for an airline of buying both models instead of going for a bigger one directly?

Not based on the order book well before first flight. Orders + options are now about 250, which is more than the 737 had before it's first flight. 320 & 73NG both likely require 4 FA's, CSeries only 3, which directly affects the CASM.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinekliakh01 From Russia, joined Feb 2012, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4977 times:

Well A319 will also have 3 FAs.

However considering what Stitch wrote in his message that A319 can be used for a longer routes than A320, thus giving an airline additional flexibility on using this aircraft, why an airline would go for both CS100 and CS300 if they have the same range which will reduce their flexibility on operating a smalle aircraft on longer routes.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9638 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4750 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 3):
Range and performance will ensure there is enough demand

There are airports in the world that the performance of the 737-MAX7 and A319NEO are needed over the larger models. They can operate out of smaller airfields. The 737-800 has an optional short field performance package to operate out of smaller airports, but its payload can be heavily restricted. While it is not a huge market, it certainly is important for a select few customers.

One problem of the MAX and NEO is that they are getting worse with short field performance. Both planes are getting heavier, which means higher approach speeds and longer brake distances. The MAX is also going to have a higher angle of attack on the ground, which means less brake force. With the short field performance getting worse on both the A320NEO amd 737-MAX8, there will certainly be a market for the smaller models.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

And while it may be a horrible idea for some of you, I see the A319NEO 737MAX7 to replace the 757 as the transcon-TATL small plane. Enough space for enough Business class, and a few Y which are easy to be sold at good margins and cargo containers.

User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2630 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4164 times:

Today, the families are optimized around the A320 and 738, the reengining and double-digit sfc improvoment will shift that optimum point to the right. The A320NEO & 738MAX will continue to be the big sellers, but the A321NEO and 739MAX will gain a lot of attractiveness. The A319NEO / 737MAX will not become the new A318 / 736, but they will sell less relatively to their big brothers than they do today.

They will still be useful for long thin routes, QR will surely be interested, IB could open up a good chunk of Africa with them, etc. But for those who don't need the range capacity, they may be "too much aircraft" and they'll go for A320NEO / 738MAX instead.

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 8):
I see the A319NEO 737MAX7 to replace the 757 as the transcon-TATL small plane. Enough space for enough Business class, and a few Y which are easy to be sold at good margins and cargo containers.

IMO, they are still too small for a profitable typical 2-class operation, despite the efficiency gains. However, they would make all-business (or heavy business + some Y+) TATL flights much more attractive.


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