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AC Goes For Frequency Over Capacity On YYZ-LAX  
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 994 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9296 times:
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looks like Air Canada will add one more daily flight between YYZ-LAX.. AC will now operate 6 daily flights between Toronto-L.A, but on the downside, they will terminate its only widebody service between the cities, its 767 flight.

Boeing 767 service on Toronto – Los Angeles route ends on 30APR12".

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9142 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
looks like Air Canada will add one more daily flight between YYZ-LAX.. AC will now operate 6 daily flights between Toronto-L.A, but on the downside, they will terminate its only widebody service between the cities, its 767 flight.

Boeing 767 service on Toronto – Los Angeles route ends on 30APR12".

Probably because they want the 763 on a different route, probably overseas. It's called opportunity cost.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9001 times:

I am also thinking, and should have included this in my previous post, that the 763 running YYZ-LAX is probably one of the 3 ex HA frames that has the domestic J, not the international JF. So, this aircraft is probably going to shortly start YYZ/YUL-BCN and YYZ/YUL-ATH, to service the cruise business.

Given the turmoil in Greece, ATH frequency may be downgraded.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8968 times:
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Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
Boeing 767 service on Toronto – Los Angeles route ends on 30APR12".

It still sounds like a net loss in capacity between LAX-YYZ. Seems counter-intuitive to drop the widebody service just in time for the summer travel season.


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5041 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8744 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
I am also thinking, and should have included this in my previous post, that the 763 running YYZ-LAX is probably one of the 3 ex HA frames that has the domestic J, not the international JF.

One would think ... but in fact no. The main reason for the B767 returning on the YYZ-LAX market was the competition offered by Virgin America. The Lie Flat Business class seats were to compete with their J product. So, unless there is an equipment substitution, the planned B767 is equipped with the Executive First cabin.

As well, the "low yield" B767s do not have AVOD, and YYZ-LAX is a very high yield market where AC offers its best (domestic) service. In fact, for a while, the A319s flown on that route were the only ones in the system offering WiFi.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 3):
It still sounds like a net loss in capacity between LAX-YYZ. Seems counter-intuitive to drop the widebody service just in time for the summer travel season.

It is all about competition, and better use of a wide-body aircraft during a peak time.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineHOONS90 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 3036 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8708 times:
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Quoting connies4ever (Reply 1):

Probably because they want the 763 on a different route, probably overseas. It's called opportunity cost.

I remember back in the Summer of '06-'08(?) YVR-ICN was 10x weekly, with AC61/62 and AC63/64. It would be nice if the extra 767 was used to reinstate those frequencies. The times that it wasn't more than a daily service, it always used to be an A340.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
I am also thinking, and should have included this in my previous post, that the 763 running YYZ-LAX is probably one of the 3 ex HA frames that has the domestic J, not the international JF. So, this aircraft is probably going to shortly start YYZ/YUL-BCN and YYZ/YUL-ATH, to service the cruise business.

I believe that those planes are stationed out west right now flying to Hawaii. Don't think that YYZ has seen those birds since perhaps October.



The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2207 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8483 times:

All the meanwhile, the daily 738 YYZ-LAX on AA holds its ground...


next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8271 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
I am also thinking, and should have included this in my previous post, that the 763 running YYZ-LAX is probably one of the 3 ex HA frames that has the domestic J, not the international JF. So, this aircraft is probably going to shortly start YYZ/YUL-BCN and YYZ/YUL-ATH, to service the cruise business.

Only 2 are HA aircraft. They are used on the YVR/YYC-OGG, YYC-CUN, and YYC-HNL. All though lately an XM'd 767 has been used on the YYC-HNL flights.


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 21 hours ago) and read 8055 times:
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I was surprised to see only AC and AA operate this route. Granted AC will operate 6 daily flights, but I'd expected more flights between Toronto and L.A

User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2576 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 17 hours ago) and read 7656 times:

The only other airline that could operate this route is AC's star partner UA. Which is also exactly why it is not operating it, since AC is pretty much covering all the bases, with a better product and service at that.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineJetCaptain From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 17 hours ago) and read 7468 times:

I wonder why WestJet can't make this route work ? I know they've tried it twice in the past. Is the market from YYZ really that different from Las Vegas, where they have had great success ?

User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 7269 times:

So after April 30, the only widebody service to US will be YVR-HNL on 763's?

[Edited 2012-02-22 07:42:28]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 7091 times:
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Quoting bmacleod (Reply 11):
So after April 30, the only widebody service to US will be YVR-HNL on 763's?

I think we'd agree that the U.S -Canada market is a frequency market.

That 767 on YVR-HNL continues on to somewhere in Asia, correct??

Quoting JetCaptain (Reply 10):
I wonder why WestJet can't make this route work ? I know they've tried it twice in the past. Is the market from YYZ really that different from Las Vegas, where they have had great success ?

Air Canada did operate 5 flights YYZ-LAX, one of them being a 767. Plus American's 737 flight... AC has only 2 daily flights on YYZ-LAS, both of them narrow-body airbus. It seems like the YYZ-LAS market is less crowed


User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 6757 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 12):
That 767 on YVR-HNL continues on to somewhere in Asia, correct??

No, the aircraft turns around and goes back to YVR. There are no AC flights that continue on to anywhere from HNL.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 3033 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 6676 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 2):
I am also thinking, and should have included this in my previous post, that the 763 running YYZ-LAX is probably one of the 3 ex HA frames that has the domestic J, not the international JF.

No, it's the XM config. BTW, the 3 non-XM 763s actually fly international leisure routes, not domestic routes.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 6639 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 14):
No, it's the XM config. BTW, the 3 non-XM 763s actually fly international leisure routes, not domestic routes.

In the summer schedule yes but in the winter schedule they fly YYC/YVR to Hawaii.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 6439 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 14):
No, it's the XM config. BTW, the 3 non-XM 763s actually fly international leisure routes, not domestic routes.
Quoting whiteguy (Reply 15):
In the summer schedule yes but in the winter schedule they fly YYC/YVR to Hawaii.

Both of which are international routes, as would be YYZ-LAX.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2248 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 6309 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 6):
All the meanwhile, the daily 738 YYZ-LAX on AA holds its ground...

That flight is important. The studios and film companies that have exclusive American arrangements, the people connecting to Qantas and other South Pacific One World Carriers, and then US originating passengers to YYZ all use it. So while it is only one flight, it is pretty secure.

I know many actors, agents and film industry types who fly the route, prefer AC, but a lot are constrained to fly whatever is bought for them, unless their contracts stipulate they can choose. The soap stars who used to shuttle back and forth mostly flew AC and new all the crew by name.

The Aplus list just fly private  .


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4049 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 5992 times:
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On 1 May 2012 AC's LAX-YYZ schedule is showing: 1-A319, 3-A321, 1-A320. I see an increase in AC using A321s in this market for this day at least as AC will up/downgauge a/c according to demand.

User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 810 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 5973 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 16):
Both of which are international routes, as would be YYZ-LAX.

Actually they are considered Transboarder routes. The international routes they operate on are Barcelona and Athens, Dublin to I think.

YYZ-LAX is considered a transboarder route also.


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8142 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 5973 times:

Not sure if it's actually been spelled out but the flight in question is AC 791 outbound, d. YYZ 0830 a. LAX 1040. The return is AC 792, d. LAX 1155 a. YYZ 1930. I will book onto the 792 on April 30, need to make that journey around that date anyway, and the price is excellent at the moment, £194 oneway. Tried to get on an Air Canada 767 on this route i 2010 but it turned into an A321 on the day.

Incidentally, the flight numbers remain after May 1 but is no longer the first flight of the day. New times are: d. YYZ 1020 a. LAX 1241, and back to base d. LAX 1335 a. YYZ 2118.

(Do Air Canada air crew nightstop in California? Seems like a very easy day to just go one way, and very tiring hard work to go both ways!)



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5041 posts, RR: 43
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 5947 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 20):
(Do Air Canada air crew nightstop in California? Seems like a very easy day to just go one way, and very tiring hard work to go both ways!)

There are a lot of AC crews laying over in California, both LAX and SFO. This required due to the early morning departures to YYZ, YUL, and YVR.

However, there are single day pairings, YYZ-LAX-YYZ, and YYZ-SFO-YYZ where the schedule fits. They go very senior, as with 9-10 hours credit, it allows an 8 or 9 day month.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2182 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 12 hours ago) and read 5377 times:

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 13):
Quoting g500 (Reply 12):
That 767 on YVR-HNL continues on to somewhere in Asia, correct??

No, the aircraft turns around and goes back to YVR. There are no AC flights that continue on to anywhere from HNL.

That used to be the case before AC owned any aircraft which could do YVR-SYD non-stop. Just clarifying things there. The A340 was the most commonly used aircraft, and I believe the 767 has been used at times as well.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 12 hours ago) and read 5360 times:

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 19):
Actually they are considered Transboarder routes. The international routes they operate on are Barcelona and Athens, Dublin to I think.

YYZ-LAX is considered a transboarder route also.

"Transboarder". Boarder implies international. Airlines may use the term transboarder if they so choose, but these are still international flights, both in fact and in law. If it's not international, then why do you have to go through customs and immigration ?



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 12 hours ago) and read 5265 times:

Quoting JetCaptain (Reply 10):
I wonder why WestJet can't make this route work ? I know they've tried it twice in the past. Is the market from YYZ really that different from Las Vegas, where they have had great success ?

YYZ-LAX is a heavy business route, especially due to the movie/entertainment industry, and a lot of LAX-originating traffic. YYZ-LAS is the opposite, almost totally leisure, and almost all Canada-originating.

AC has always been dominant on YYZ-LAX. Virgin America quickly dropped their brief service, as did Alaska Airlines when they tried YYZ-LAX using MD-80s a few years ago. AC has such a large frequent flyer base in Canada it's hard for U.S. carriers to make inroads. The same applies on shorter routes like YYZ-LGA where AC has much more capacity than AA.


25 pnwtraveler : While technically you are right in the abstract, Air Canada doesn't classify them that way. Transborder has its own service levels and other internal
26 connies4ever : Jet America was sort of in the market for a while as well, LGB-YYZ with MD-80s. I believe mid/late 80s to about 91, when they got absorbed by...AS. M
27 whiteguy : Sure it used to but doesn't anymore. The B744 was used for while also. The B767s were probably used the most. There was also a flight from YYZ to HNL
28 connies4ever : I know that. I grew up in an AC family, father and brother. What I am saying is not about airline jargon, it's about fact.
29 Kaiarahi : Seriously, I think everyone understands that the U.S. and Canada are not the same country and that you cross the border to go from one to the other.
30 connies4ever : Having taken some law units as part of my management program, one thing I can tell you about the law is that it not about fact, it is about definitio
31 Kaiarahi : As a holder of post-graduate degrees in law and a former law professor and senior director of the Canadian Bar Association, I'm not even going to try
32 threepoint : Zing. I sensed an emerging edge in this debate even prior to the repeated use of the term "transboarder". What is it the kids say: pwned?
33 whiteguy : YYC-HNL is non stop, along with YYC-OGG.
34 Kaiarahi : OK - someone above said it was via YVR.
35 connies4ever : "Legal fact" is itself a definition. Just as our "justice system" has nothing to do with justice, and everything to do with process. But this is way
36 jamincan : I don't think that's right, but maybe the law professor can chime in.
37 yyz717 : As mentioned, WS tried the route and pulled out. Now that WS is more established in YYZ, they may jump in again. Who knows. AA started a 2nd daily on
38 aircanada014 : March 2000 I flew on AC from YYZ-HNL-SYD and return same routing back SYD-HNL-YYZ. I had a good time in Australia for 5 weeks.
39 connies4ever : You're wrong, Neil. I've golfed with guys that flew the route.
40 yyz717 : Jet America never flew to Toronto. Jet America was bought by Alaska, Alaska did operate YYZ-LAX (not LGB).
41 longhauler : When AC started the route, it was a single DC-8, out in the morning, back in the afternoon. AA did not start on the route (with a B707) until AC had
42 connies4ever : So the pilots I golfed with lied. Fine, have it your way.
43 IrishAyes : I can understand the other reasons, but why would someone fly AA to LAX and QF onward to Oceania when they can fly YYZ-YVR-SYD on same aircraft, or f
44 longhauler : Lied ... might be a bit harsh. But likely, as Alaska had bought Jet America before Alaska started flying YYZ-LAX, it may well have been an ex Jet Ame
45 pnwtraveler : My lawyer and his wife just did it three weeks ago. Points, points and more points. They have just enough One World Points that the flight then gave
46 yyz717 : Oddly, Alaska assigned 2 specific M80 tails to the YYZ-LAX route with only rare substitutions. M83 of course.
47 longhauler : That's interesting ... any idea's why? Maybe they were specially equipped for range. I would have though YYZ-LAX is quite a haul for an MD-80.
48 Viscount724 : YYZ-LAX nonstops from a few schedules from the 1970s through the 90s: April 1, 1974 AC - 1 L-1011, 1 DC-8 AA - no service November 15, 1979 AC - 2 L-
49 mercure1 : YYZ-LAX market has had lots of players over the years. Wardair did A310 service JetsGo with MD-80 flights in 2004/2005. Skyservice also ran YYZ-LAX wi
50 Viscount724 : I believe Wardair's service on that route was charter only. Don't think they ever had scheduled traffic rights YYZ-LAX prior to being acquired by CP.
51 pnwtraveler : I clearly remember the advertising for the flights. Alaska was touting the food and service, like a premium service at a competitive price. Beyond ra
52 mercure1 : No it was definitely scheduled over a couple years. Flew them twice to visit family friends in Canada. There were several bucket shop agencies that s
53 RKSofACinUSA : AC did have a 333 YYZFLL last summer and until very recently was showing the same for this summer. I believe it was an equipment issue where there wa
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