Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Smoky Aircraft - Lufthansa A340-642?  
User currently offlinejayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1029 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 15311 times:

I was just going through some great pictures of LH, and i couldn't help but notice the abnormally visible amount of smoke coming from the LH A346 engines.
Ive never seen that on any modern Airbus Aircraft, apart from the heat blaze.
Why is the black smoking coming out?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Tonna




Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1249 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 15208 times:

That seems very odd.

The only explanation i could give is maybe the lighting conditions were enhancing the engine exhaust. And also maybe the aircraft is training and exercising a missed approach.


User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 15097 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 1):
maybe the aircraft is training and exercising a missed approach.

That must be the reason why we see a LH A346 in MLA.

[Edited 2012-02-22 03:25:14]


Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14997 times:

It's quite common after maintenance (or new aircraft, or aircraft that come out of storage) to see a smoke trail behind them. The reason for that is mainly excess oil that is being burnt.


..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 14996 times:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 2):
That must be the reason why we see a LH A346 in MLA.

The main reason for Lufthansa flying wide-bodies to MLA is that they get some heavy maintenance performed at Lufthansa Technik Malta. That said, they likely also use those flights for crew training.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlinejayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1029 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 14442 times:

Thank You.
From what i know, they send the A321 from FRA there. How often does LH send a widebody there?



Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
User currently offlineEI747SYDNEY From Ireland, joined Oct 2005, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 14249 times:

Most likely burning off excess oil!

     



''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4399 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 14219 times:

I can confirm that isn't the normal view at clear sky...

User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 782 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13534 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

A small oil leak in the engines or uncleaned combustion chambers? That can happen with brand new engines.

But you are right, as far as I am concerned, the only 'smoking' engines today usually come from P&W, certainly not from RR.


User currently offlineljupco From Macedonia, joined Feb 2010, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 12083 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 4):
Lufthansa Technik Malta.

Maybe a little out of subject, but I'm curious why LH has maintenance center in Malta? Isn't it a little far from Germany. or costs for engineers, hangars and runway fees are low at Malta's airport!!


User currently offlinesolarflyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11962 times:

Quoting something (Reply 3):

It's quite common after maintenance (or new aircraft, or aircraft that come out of storage) to see a smoke trail behind them. The reason for that is mainly excess oil that is being burnt.

That was my thinking as well. It might take an hour or two to burn off. Malta does seem like a strange place for maintenance.


User currently offlineTrnsWrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 948 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 11153 times:

Looks like an old 707 taking off lol.

User currently offlinedarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1376 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10413 times:

Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 6):
Most likely burning off excess oil!
Quoting something (Reply 3):
The reason for that is mainly excess oil that is being burnt.

You all sure about that? Oil burns a lot lighter in color than that. Could the engines not be running a bit rich? I know that's controlled electronically, but I'm sure it could still happen.

As well, it could just also be that the engines are due for cleaning. Does Technik perform that action during a standard hvy mx visit?



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7931 times:

Quoting ljupco (Reply 9):

Maybe a little out of subject, but I'm curious why LH has maintenance center in Malta? Isn't it a little far from Germany. or costs for engineers, hangars and runway fees are low at Malta's airport!!

I think that it would be because of lower costs. A maintenance engineer in Malta would probably expect a much lower wage than one in Germany. Landing fees in Malta are probably cheaper also. The difference in costs must be greater than the cost to ferry the aircraft back and fourth from Munich. The fact that both nations use the Euro makes things easier for Lufthansa.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6348 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7904 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting something (Reply 3):
The reason for that is mainly excess oil that is being burnt.

Isn´t the smoke from oil almost white?


User currently offlineBoeingorbust From Canada, joined Oct 2011, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 6202 times:

Quoting TrnsWrld (Reply 11):
Looks like an old 707 taking off lol.
http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices...lery/images/commercial/dc8-05.html

no no my friend... it's light in comparison lol! Granted it's a DC-8 but I've seen 707 photos much the same!

And I thought the oil burn was a lot lighter and blue coloured almost. You can see that at engine start up on a cold morning and it seems that on airbus' in general that those starts are particularly smokey... Not sure why but I've seen it moreso on the A320 family as well as the A300 series.


User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 17 hours ago) and read 3220 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 13):
I think that it would be because of lower costs. A maintenance engineer in Malta would probably expect a much lower wage than one in Germany. Landing fees in Malta are probably cheaper also. The difference in costs must be greater than the cost to ferry the aircraft back and fourth from Munich. The fact that both nations use the Euro makes things easier for Lufthansa.

Munich doesn't install cabins; the A346 in the picture went to Malta to have the new first class installed; Hamburg (the other place this is done) is working at capacity.

Lufthansa Technik needed to expand their business, tried Malta plc out at the time (2000s), they did a satisfying job at competitive cost, Lufthansa formed a joint venture (LH 92%, Malta plc 8%), specialized in C-Checks, then built a new 60 000m² hangar and is now doing cabin fittings (that's why you see Etihad and Brussels Airlines heavies there as well).

It's cheaper to have work done there than in Germany, the gov't is very much behind this project and you should not forget that oil is really cheap - Virgin flies their birds to MNL for maintenance, various Chinese airlines have gone to Malta before, Qantas A380s are being serviced in FRA, airplanes are being flown half way around the world to be scrapped, painted, converted, stored etc. all the time. So while Malta is in a good location to work with mediterrean customers, their reputation and the lower cost structure is doing a lot more for them than any geographic advantage could ever do.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 17 hours ago) and read 3178 times:

Quoting something (Reply 16):
Munich doesn't install cabins

I was actually referring to Munich because that is where most of the Airbus widebodies are based.  
What you said about Lufthansa Technik Malta is very interesting.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 3112 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 17):
I was actually referring to Munich because that is where most of the Airbus widebodies are based.

Most A346 yes, most Airbus widebodies, no. (FRA: 37 (10x A346), MUC: 25 (14x A346))

The aircraft in question went to Malta for a C-Check. This downtime is used to install the new first class, LHT HAM was full so bringing it to Malta was the only option. But it's very possible that due to the lower cost structure of LHT MLA it's actually cheaper to position the bird back and forth, than to have it done at MUC (if such facilities existed).

You also have to consider how cheap the land on Malta is, how much cheaper it is to build the hangar there, the tax structure of Malta and lastly, many if not most of these parts are shipped - Malta has a harbor, Hamburg has a harbor, Munich doesn't and would require quite a bit of trucking.

Again, people can cry about the gas price all they want, but oil is still pretty damn cheap.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlinejayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1029 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months ago) and read 2623 times:

Quoting darksnowynight (Reply 12):
You all sure about that? Oil burns a lot lighter in color than that. Could the engines not be running a bit rich? I know that's controlled electronically, but I'm sure it could still happen.
Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
Isn´t the smoke from oil almost white?

Exactly my thoughts. Oil burns in a lighter color. And what do you mean when you said engines run a bit rich?

Quoting Boeingorbust (Reply 15):

Haha that's quite some smoke. Wasnt it due to water injection that time?



Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
User currently offlinedarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1376 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

Quoting jayeshrulz (Reply 19):
And what do you mean when you said engines run a bit rich?

Just that they would be running a slightly higher fuel component in the fuel/air mixture than what they were designed for. Again, I'm not sure how probable that is, but I know it is certainly possible in any turbine engine. It could just also (and more likely, IMO) be that the engine hot section is dirty and is expelling a great deal of soot under more than a certain amount of thrust.

I always think it's neat to see when a plane takes off, for example, with one clean and one dirty engine, and you can obviously tell which is which.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineBlueJuice From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2415 times:

Skip to 5:47 for the real action

The J79s wearing civilian clothing as the CJ805 can still turn the area from VFR to IFR with one flyby.  


User currently offlinetp1040 From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2072 times:

Smoke them if you got them. B-52s with water injection.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq6Hpxyrhyo


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Lufthansa A340-600 At MSP! posted Fri Jul 23 2010 19:16:24 by af773atmsp
Do Lufthansa A340's Actually Have Mood Lighting? posted Fri Jun 25 2010 07:14:43 by b6a322
Iberia A340 600 Aircraft Replacing A340 300 posted Mon Mar 15 2010 03:13:42 by corernagh14
Lufthansa A340: Emergency Landing At KHV posted Sat Oct 31 2009 19:49:41 by Addd
Iberia A340-642 EC-JOH To Be Scrapped In Quito? posted Wed May 6 2009 20:06:50 by EcuadorianMD11
What's This Lufthansa A340-600 Doing In VIE? posted Sun Oct 5 2008 08:50:29 by LH4116
Picture Of The A340-642 For The Gvmt. Of Jordan posted Sun Aug 31 2008 00:44:22 by N14AZ
Lufthansa A340-600 Stuck In IAH... posted Tue Mar 11 2008 16:50:55 by Boeing727
Lufthansa A340-600 In HKG posted Mon Dec 10 2007 00:44:03 by Hkg82
Lufthansa A340-600 posted Wed Dec 14 2005 22:23:40 by Aircanada333
What's This Lufthansa A340-600 Doing In VIE? posted Sun Oct 5 2008 08:50:29 by LH4116
Picture Of The A340-642 For The Gvmt. Of Jordan posted Sun Aug 31 2008 00:44:22 by N14AZ
Lufthansa A340-600 Stuck In IAH... posted Tue Mar 11 2008 16:50:55 by Boeing727
Lufthansa A340-600 In HKG posted Mon Dec 10 2007 00:44:03 by Hkg82