Tripple7 From Netherlands, joined Aug 1999, 539 posts, RR: 0 Posted (12 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3251 times:
Hi this might be interesting to some of us. Lately there have been many discussions about KLM's widebody fleet but now we have a fact.
Today on the morning news in the Netherlands, it was said that KLM has asked Boeing and Airbus for tenders on their B-777 and A-330 aircraft. KLM wants a tender for 34 planes and all are going to be replacements. The first 12 are going to replace the B-747-300 and the other 22 are going to replace their MD-11 and B-767 fleet.
I hope they are going to take the 777.
BTW, I do not see the logic in replacing a 767 by a 777
Luxair From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 795 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (12 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2881 times:
Yeaphhh Tripple7, I saw it also in the News this morning. Very interesting but I hope or wish
that they will make a mix between Boeing and Airbus A/C Too bad for the MD11 that they will
go because I like them very much.
DLL10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (12 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2854 times:
Well, KLMs busines will decline, as they are not going to be together with NW for long and hardly anybody would voluntarily book a flight on a high-cost low-service airline like KLM. Anyway, I don`t see the logic in replacing 767 by 777 either. Still better than the 330 (that`s what LTU is doing- replacing 763 by 332), but in both cases they should rather stick with their 767s.
Sabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2712 posts, RR: 48 Reply 5, posted (12 years 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2849 times:
I wonder if Airbus is even going to respond on this request for tenders!
Airbus recently announced they do not want to be used anymore by airlines who are just using the Airbus tender as a way of forcing Boeing to offer a them better deal.
It looks to me like this is certainly the case here.
We al know KLM is the odd man out in Europe when it comes to fleet management, and they will most likely never order the A330. Don't forget KLM is the only major carrier in Europe (apart from SAS) who preferred the B737NG! (SAS has the A321 as well by the way).
It's going to be very interesting to see what happens over the next weeks. Who knows, maybe Airbus will give them such good tenders that KLM simply can not refuse them after all.
*Niels* From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 84 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (12 years 4 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2784 times:
I think that KLM wouldn't even consider buying the 757-300 because that gives to many problems with the baggage handling.
Second of all I hope that KLM will choose the airbus, and not just to breakthrough the boeing-monopoly (if it still exists).
In my opinion the A340-500/600 are the best aircrafts to replace the 747-306 and the 767-306ER. And perhaps you could consider to buy 11 A330's to replace the MD-11's. But however KLM takes the final decission and lets hope it will be a wise one.
DLL10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (12 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2760 times:
Well, the break up was in the news a while ago and I am not sure if something changed or not. Fact is that KLM has lost a lot of shuttles between AMS and the rest of Europe due to bad cooperation strategies and thus AMS as hub and KL as partner become less attractive for NW. More and more flight to the middle and far east are already operated by NW aircraft although they almost totally relied on KL for those routes in the past. So I guess that if they find any way to get fifth freedom rights out of the Netherlands, they will split up with KL, as those rights seem to be the only good thing that NW gets out of the partnership. That anyways is what the article like 3 month ago said. Don`t know if there`s anything newer.
Tripple7 From Netherlands, joined Aug 1999, 539 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (12 years 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2744 times:
I think the Boeing777 is a perfect replacement for the 747-300. A lot of those 747-300s are combis. KLM seems to prefer aircraft that can carry a lot of cargo. The fact is that 777 combis can carry quite a lot of cargo, and if I am not mistaken it can even carry more cargo than a 747-400 combi. Not sure about this, but I thaught I read it somewhere around this forum a while ago.
Anyway is there anyone who can explain the logic behind replacing a 767-300ER with an 777 (if KLM chooses the 777). There is quite a big difference in capacity between these two planes.
YOERI1970 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2001, 138 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (12 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2734 times:
I am getting a bit irrirated about those airbus addepts, trying to explain why "their" aircraft should benefit KLM.
Has everyone forgotten about what a fiasco the A310's in the 80's and early 90's were ?
KLM wants standardization in their fleet, therefor they will most likely choose 777's.
The only question is, will they also order the 200 or 300 versions. Likely a mix.
*Niels* From Netherlands, joined Aug 2001, 84 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (12 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2731 times:
I'll try to make some things clear, first of all I'm surely not an Airbus adept as you suggest. And airbus is certainly not my aircraft, but my opinion is based on articles I read in the Piloot en Vliegtuig (a dutch magazine you probably know about).
I didn't forgot the problems with the 310 a couple of years ago, but I really think that the A340 is a better choice, perhaps not in the view of standardization but it just feels good.
Anyway as I said before it isn't our choice which plane will replace the 747, 767 and the MD-11, but I think that we are free to discus about it. I'm sorry for your irritations, and in the future I'll mind my words.
YOERI1970 From Netherlands, joined Feb 2001, 138 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (12 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2720 times:
It wasn't personal *niels*, so no worries. But there are a lot of real airbus addepts that would like to see the whole world flying airbusses.
I can't deny that airbusses have their advantages, but for KLM, they will probably not do, they don't feel good to me..
But if KLM might choose airbus after all, I am sure it's a decision made with a lot of common sense by people who get richly paid....
We'll just have to wait and see.
Teej13 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 486 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (12 years 4 months 3 days ago) and read 2628 times:
A couple of thoughts:
- If they're looking to replace the 763s, and have made it clear that they're simply not going to go for more 767s, that says something right there.
- They still have a large fleet of 744s, although some are combis, they're not going anywhere soon.
- Fleet commonailty isn't as vital as some people may argue when discussing aircraft acquisition of this magnitude. Look at United - they've got a pretty diverse fleet of both Airbus and Boeing planes, and they're pretty adept at doing maint. on other Star Alliance jets. Besides, with all of the A330s coming to NW, they'll need to know how to maintain those planes too.
- My guess is that they're goign to go with an Airbus-Boeing mix. I don't think loyalties playa role here - while they've been pretty strong about Boeing of late, they are also a cornerstone of the EU.
FlyTriStar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (12 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2610 times:
KLM was one of few airlines that had been saying that they would retain the MD-11, but I guess they have changed their mind. Anyway, a plan was called around 1996 to sell all of them to Northwest, which never acquired them.
The Boeing 777-200ER would be a good replacement for the Boeing 747-300/-200SUD combis, as the pax capacity is not so different. However, that would raise the need for a cargo aircraft...so, the 777-300 would probably be the ideal replacement. However, the 777-200 will be an ideal replacement for the MD-11s. The Boeing 767s KLM operate are still very new (less than 10 years), so I don't know why there is the need to replace them, but knowing that all of these are leased from ILFC, maybe KLM doesn't want to renew the lease contracts...like other airlines that are considering replacing the 767s, I think KLM would eventually select the Airbus A330-200 for this.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6243 posts, RR: 9 Reply 24, posted (12 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2610 times:
What article are you talking about. Nothing could be farther from the truth. NW is very happy with the alliance with KLM.
You said " more and more flights are operated by to the middle and far east are already operated by Northwest aircraft although they they have almost totally relied on KL for these routes in flights out of Amsterdam."
The only non-US flights that Northwest flies out of Amsterdam go to Bombay and Delhi. These were started at the request of KLM several years ago to get additional slots in India for the alliance. There are no other flights flown by Northwest out of Amsterdam, to anywhere in Europe, the "middle east" or the far east.
Are you sure it was an article, or was it a message on one of the message boards? Those are two different things
25 AKelley728: From the Yahoo article: A KLM spokesman said the airline's freight division was reviewing its strategy. ``There is a separate KLM cargo study going on
26 King767: You are correct, the article is talking about the 747-200s, sent back to Boeing for conversion into 747-200SUD, which to an observer, looks exactly li
27 Na: I just ask myself, why only A330 and 777? Why not the A340? Too much range? Why not more 744 Combis? Bad business? Sure KLM isn´t doing very good at
28 Lj: In addition KLM also asked GE, P&W and Rolls Royce to make an offer for KLM for the powerplants under the new aircraft. Furthermore, KLM also invited
29 Red Panda: KLM should go for A346 for 744 and 743, 332 for 767, and 343 for MD-11. maybe some 333 and 345 too. brgds // r panda