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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 111  
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 14084 times:

Welcome to the 111th New Zealand aviation thread. In New Zealand Aviation Thread #110 (by 777ER Feb 13 2012 in Civil Aviation) we discussed:

- 2 new destinations for Air NZ: Bali and Sunshine Coast
- Practicalities for NZ to start serving South America
- QANTAS pulling out of AKL-LAX, opportunities for Air NZ
- Should Air NZ start non-stop WLG-ZQN flights
- Is Air NZ going to keep their 767s for longer

202 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMr AirNZ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2002, 855 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13784 times:

Amongst all the six monthly financials released today by Air NZ, news that two 787-9 options have been converted to firm orders. Modified delievery schedule agreed to with the first aircraft now due second quarter 2014.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Air-NZ-slashi.../209/articleID/244064/Default.aspx

[Edited 2012-02-23 13:00:02]

User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8548 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13727 times:
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Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 1):
Amongst all the six monthly financials released today by Air NZ, news that two 787-9 options have been converted to firm orders. Modified delievery schedule agreed to with the first aircraft now due second quarter 2014.

http://www.3news.co.nz/Air-NZ-slashi....aspx

Interesting that they also mention a charter flight in October to Buenos Aires using the 77W !

“Today I am also pleased to announce our first foray into South America, with a charter flight in September using our new all black Boeing 777-300.”

The flight will take the All Blacks and their fans to Buenos Aires for the first game against Argentina in the expanded Four Nations competition. Tickets and packages will go on sale in the coming weeks.


Hopefully a taste of things to come.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13726 times:

I am disappointed to hear about the job cuts, and no 777 options have been converted.

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7184 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13673 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 3):
and no 777 options have been converted.

yep agreed, instead of

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 1):
two 787-9 options have been converted

Which is still relying on a theoretical airline with theoretical range and payload at very least until Boeing produce the first 789. How can anything like routes be forecast effectively (Unless they are for tasks well below their design like DPS) when they don't even know accurately what distance the aircraft can fly, how heavy it is, how much fuel burn (even whether it will save any fuel per passenger onboard at all over a 77W which hauls more) or even if it will gain EDTO 330 immediately when it enters service...


User currently offlineDavidByrne From New Zealand, joined Sep 2007, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13670 times:

One of the authoritative airline blogs is reporting that NZ's AKL-HNL will increase to 4x weekly this (southern) summer, up from 2x weekly in the current summer. I am aware that HNL is served 3x weekly for a few months mid-year most years, but this year the 3x weekly schedule continues right through to November, and then increases to 4x weekly. The changes are not yet reflected in NZ's schedule. This is a very significant increase - K'man should be pleased. Maybe it's an attempt to forestall a restart by HA?

The same blog site also outlines the seasonal increases to LAX, SFO and YVR, but these have been in the schedules for a long time.

It also provides flight numbers from ANA's schedule which show the servces on which ANA will codeshare on NZ to and from Japan. This clearly includes AKL-KIX, and the implication of that is that KIX must not be for the chop when the review of the international network is completed.



This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1674 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13634 times:

not s good set of numbers, they are really going to have to work hard the next 6 months, lets hope the two new routes make some money!

Shame they went for more 787 options now, 2 years to go and they have hardly even started making the plane yet! I hate to be in there shoes when 2014 comes and they have no planes!!



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1674 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13631 times:

''Labour: 'Worst time' for Air NZ sale''

Air New Zealand's profit plunge shows it would be the "worst time'' for the Government to sell shares in the company, Labour says.

The Government has flagged the airline as one of five state-owned assets it could sell shares in under its "mixed-ownership model'' plans.

Finance Minister Bill English last week admitted a Treasury prediction that the sales of Air New Zealand and four power companies would raise $6 billion was "just a guess'', and Opposition parties are now questioning how the airline's profits have been factored into that estimate.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10787733



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinenz2 From New Zealand, joined Aug 2007, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13581 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
Interesting that they also mention a charter flight in October to Buenos Aires using the 77W !

Great news - anyone know how I can book on that flight? We have about 10 of us going.


Something I just dicovered, being Gold member I have always been able to select any seat even if travelling on seat only option. I go to Oz quite a bit on biz and often there and back in the day so having a good seat helps. I just booked an overnight trip to MEL next week, staying overnight coz the return (seat only option) was $800 so cheaper to stay over, added bonus is a 744 ride home. Going over is a 772 but when coming to select a seat, there is only 3 or 4 middle seats available for me to chose. Speaking with customer service they advise that even gold should never have had seat selection available and that as I am on the cheap seat option (costing $1,000 return so hardly cheap!) I only gain access to selection of middle seats. She did put a request in for me to be seated forward in the cabin as there are seats available but i wont know till check in

Anyone else have this happen to them? Normally I could select the PE seats if any were available but now, basically nothing, not even down the back! My last trip was maybe a month ago to SYD and I could chose from all over the plane

Lastly, with QF pulling out of LAX, could SFO see the return of the 744 on the Mon/Tues flight and the 772 deployed to LAX? I am booked to return from UK through SFO on NZ7 on Tues May 8th currently a 772 - anyone know if there may be an equipment change in the wings ?? - it was a 744 when I booked and being booked in PE I am really bummed about it

cheers


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13571 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 4):
Which is still relying on a theoretical airline with theoretical range and payload at very least until Boeing produce the first 789. How can anything like routes be forecast effectively (Unless they are for tasks well below their design like DPS) when they don't even know accurately what distance the aircraft can fly, how heavy it is, how much fuel burn (even whether it will save any fuel per passenger onboard at all over a 77W which hauls more) or even if it will gain EDTO 330 immediately when it enters service...
Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 6):
Shame they went for more 787 options now, 2 years to go and they have hardly even started making the plane yet! I hate to be in there shoes when 2014 comes and they have no planes!!

I am somewhat given the impression that the fleet planners at NZ think that the 787 is the solution to everything. Whereas many other airlines are actively expanding their 777 and 330 fleets, or even buying 767 to cover 787 delays, NZ seems to have done nothing other than wait for their 789 to be delivered. IMHO, NZ can build a very good long haul network with an enhanced 767 and 777 fleet, even without the 787. But somehow they opt to do nothing and just sit there to wait for the 789 to happen, which could be 2014, or maybe 2015, or 2016. I don't see how the 787 can be "game changing" when all their opportunities are taken and established by competitors in the first place while they wait for aircraft deliveries.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4938 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13543 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 4):
Which is still relying on a theoretical airline with theoretical range and payload at very least until Boeing produce the first 789.

.

Rob you are being overly pessimistic . The performance of the 788 is now well documented and the 789 is the same aircraft with a plug in it which according to Ferpe adds a little more parasitic drag and makes it about 10t heavier. I believe it will make it's weights. Boeing is ahead of their self imposed deadline to get the weight out of the 788 and these changes will be incorporated into the 789. The modelling provided by PIANO-X very closely approximates what it will do so I don't believe in the hypothesis that nothing is known about it's expected performance. On the bellwether AKL-LAX route it is good for 50t although it is likely that it would be volume limited. Southbound it will be good for about 45t. Fuel burn will be about 67t northbound and 72t southbound.


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 876 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13507 times:

Quoting nz2 (Reply 8):
I am booked to return from UK through SFO on NZ7 on Tues May 8th currently a 772 - anyone know if there may be an equipment change in the wings ?? - it was a 744 when I booked and being booked in PE I am really bummed about it

NZ7 Thu May 10th is a 77W, but I guess that could change too.

PA515


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4938 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13499 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 11):
NZ7 Thu May 10th is a 77W, but I guess that could change too.

Is there any sort of regular frequency for the 77W on the SFO route?


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 876 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13483 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 12):
Is there any sort of regular frequency for the 77W on the SFO route?

Only Thu 03 May and Thu 10 May.

PA515


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1674 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13420 times:

here is a few updates to code-shares and scheduled changes over the coming months,

ANA and Air New Zealand starting 25MAR12 is to begin codeshare operation, subject to Government approval. In 25MAR12 edition of ANA timetable, the Japanese carrier has listed codeshare flight numbers on flights operated by Air New Zealand.

Reservation at this time is not yet open. Codeshare flight numbers:

Route NH Codeshare NZ Operating
Auckland – Osaka Kansai NH7953/7952 NZ097/098
Auckland – Tokyo Narita NH7951/7950 NZ099/090

http://airlineroute.net/2012/02/23/nhnz-codeshare-s12/

Air New Zealand’s initial changes to Northern Winter 2012/13 season to North America as follows.

Think this is some good news, but shame that they have put the 763 back on the route.

Auckland – Honolulu eff 15NOV12 Service Increases from 3 to 4 weekly, compared to 2 in Northern Winter 2011/12 season
NZ010 AKL1030 – 2015-1HNL 763 x135
NZ009 HNL2145 – 0600+2AKL 763 x247

Auckland – Los Angeles eff 11DEC12
NZ002/001 77W Daily
NZ006/005 77W Day x2 772 Day 2

This bit is Fantastic, I think this could really go to daily sooner then later.

Auckland – Vancouver eff 13DEC12 Service Increase to 5 weekly, compared to 4 weekly in Northern Winter 2011/12 season
NZ084 AKL2000 – 1215YVR 772 x12
NZ083 YVR1815 – 0530+2AKL 772 x12

http://airlineroute.net/2012/02/23/nz-w12update1/



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 876 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13400 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 11):
Quoting nz2 (Reply 8):
I am booked to return from UK through SFO on NZ7 on Tues May 8th currently a 772 - anyone know if there may be an equipment change in the wings ?? - it was a 744 when I booked and being booked in PE I am really bummed about it

NZ7 Thu May 10th is a 77W, but I guess that could change too.
Quoting PA515 (Reply 13):
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 12):
Is there any sort of regular frequency for the 77W on the SFO route?

Only Thu 03 May and Thu 10 May.

Just checked. In the last two weeks the 10 May NZ7 77W has been switched with the NZ5 772. Only the Thu 03 May NZ7 is a 77W now. I guess the need was greatest on AKL-LAX due QF ceasing 06 May.

PA515


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1170 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13390 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
Interesting that they also mention a charter flight in October to Buenos Aires using the 77W !


The reporter made it sound like they were seriously considering beginning a route to South America. I hope this is true.

Quoting nz2 (Reply 8):
Great news - anyone know how I can book on that flight? We have about 10 of us going.

Air New Zealand's facebook page says tickets will go on sale 'In the coming weeks'. Rather vague.



Air New Zealand; first to commercially fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13311 times:

QUEST: Earlier this week, Willie Walsh said on this program that $115 a barrel was manageable. He didn't say he liked it. $150 becomes pain- worthy.

What would you say?

FYFE: You know, if you really ask me, I'd actually be happy with fuel at $150. I'd be happy with fuel at $200. We are actually an incredible robust airline. We've got a very strong balance sheet. There's a lot of airlines out there that struggle to economically survive. They get by by the skin of their teeth.

To be honest, if high fuel started to claim some of the struggling airlines out of the industry, it wouldn't concern me at all.

QUEST: Oh, oh, oh, that's a polite way -- you just want to -- you want to nut cracker the competition.

FYFE: Well, the reality is the strong should get stronger and those that aren't strong enough should actually fall by the wayside. Unfortunately, in the airline industry, often, you find a lot of intervention in the industry that stops that from happening.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1103/31/qmb.01.html

This is a transcript from a CNN interview almost a year ago in which Rob Fyfe said he would be happy even if fuel was $200. Today's fuel price is $124 a barrel and NZ is not robust. What has happend?


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 876 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13290 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 14):
here is a few updates to code-shares and scheduled changes over the coming months,

This is interesting.
Auckland - San Francisco eff. 10DEC12 Daily
NZ008 AKL1930-1030SFO 744 x357
NZ008 AKL1930-1045SFO 772 357

NZ007 SFO1900-0500+2AKL 744 x357
NZ007 SFO1900-0510+2AKL 772 357

What will the 744 be doing We Fr Su in peak season?

PA515


User currently offlinenz2 From New Zealand, joined Aug 2007, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13237 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 18):
Auckland - San Francisco eff. 10DEC12 Daily
NZ008 AKL1930-1030SFO 744 x357
NZ008 AKL1930-1045SFO 772 357

NZ007 SFO1900-0500+2AKL 744 x357
NZ007 SFO1900-0510+2AKL 772 357

Excuse my ignorance but isn't this the same time and days of week for both the 772 and 744 - am i missing a date when they swap over?


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8548 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13216 times:
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Quoting nz2 (Reply 19):
Excuse my ignorance but isn't this the same time and days of week for both the 772 and 744 - am i missing a date when they swap over?

I may have misinterpreted what you are asking... but the 744 operates x357 ie every day except Wed, Fri and Sun whereas the 772 operates 357 ie Wed Fri and Sun



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 13194 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 14):
Auckland %u2013 Honolulu eff 15NOV12 Service Increases from 3 to 4 weekly, compared to 2 in Northern Winter 2011/12 season
NZ010 AKL1030 %u2013 2015-1HNL 763 x135
NZ009 HNL2145 %u2013 0600 2AKL 763 x247

There is still a fundamental problem here: the rest of NZ's North American services have around 25% feed to/from Brisbane and Melbourne, but Honolulu doesn't because the northbound flight departs too early in the day to get connecting traffic.

My strong preference would be for Air NZ to operate a daily 77E AKL-HNL-YVR.

This would inconvenience passengers to/from Canada by adding two hours to their journey, but the trade-off is that they would have the added convenience of a daily frequency.

And a daily AKL-HNL-YVR wouldn't require any more overnight crew accommodation to be purchased than the existing 2x weekly HNL flight and 3x weekly YVR flight.


User currently offlinealangirvan From New Zealand, joined Nov 2000, 2106 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13152 times:

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 10):
ob you are being overly pessimistic . The performance of the 788 is now well documented and the 789 is the same aircraft with a plug in it which according to Ferpe adds a little more parasitic drag and makes it about 10t heavier. I believe it will make it's weights. Boeing is ahead of their self imposed deadline to get the weight out of the 788 and these changes will be incorporated into the 789.

We have waited so long since those two 7E7s were tagged on to the order for 777, and now the 789s are rather different plane from the original 7E7s. In previous thread, we have seen that the first few routes for the 789s will be China and Japan, so these planes will start life by primarily bringing Asian tourists. They will replace the 763s, so apparently, they will be appropriate aircraft for Bali, if Bali is still being operated in 2014 and beyond. Is the 789 the right aircraft for AKL-RAR-LAX. It might be good for turning YVR into a daily service, and even a better than daily service for SFO.

I thought one of the problems with operating AKL-HNL-YVR is that the Americans make it inconvenient to transit at HNL. As I remember it from my trip to HNL in 2010, AirNZ and Air Canada use the same gate at HNL airport - I suppose transit passengers could stay in the gate lounge, which would be a bit uncomfortable.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8548 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13139 times:
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Quoting koruman (Reply 21):
My strong preference would be for Air NZ to operate a daily 77E AKL-HNL-YVR.

This would inconvenience passengers to/from Canada by adding two hours to their journey, but the trade-off is that they would have the added convenience of a daily frequency.


Oh great, let's make people deal with the whole hassle of going through the US . Isn't the point of the non-stop flight to avoid the farce of dealing with the TSA and the charming folks from US customs and immigration?

A stop in HNL also sounds like a really good way to piss off AKL-YVR pax in BP who could otherwise have had a reasonable nights unbroken sleep on the flight.

As if both of those weren't bad enough it would also change Australia-YVR from a one stop service to a two stop service.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 13124 times:

Quoting alangirvan (Reply 22):
Is the 789 the right aircraft for AKL-RAR-LAX.

It will depend on whether the Cook Islands government is willing to pay extra money to underwrite an aircraft of larger capacity. If the Cook Islands government is willing to do so, any aircraft is the right aircraft as long as it has the range.


25 alangirvan : Doesn't the money come from NZ Foreign Affairs Aid?
26 Post contains images koruman : Vancouver Airport has US arrival pre-clearance, so passengers don't have to go through any security whatsoever upon arrival in the USA. If Air New Ze
27 kiwiandrew : Are you serious? Not everyone manages to get to sleep within 5 minutes of take off. A lot of pax will only be settling down to sleep 2 or three hours
28 cchan : From the news articles I read some years ago, it seems it is a deal between the Cook Islands government and Air NZ, NZAID is not directly involved.
29 koruman : Look carefully at the times. AKL-HNL is a flight covering the entire night, and it's just over 9 hours long. HNL-YVR is in broad daylight, during the
30 kiwiandrew : Yes, I have been through it... around 20 years ago in YVR. It doesn't matter how "easy" it is ( and I might remind you that not everyone on the fligh
31 PA515 : For Australian pax (like you) it's an 0200 arrival at HNL and an 0400 departure, for NZ pax an 0400 arrival and 0600 departure. If Air NZ did this th
32 aerokiwi : You mean... much nicer for you, right?
33 koruman : The Australian market to HNL is currently several times larger than the market to YVR, and Air NZ gets none of it. YVR currently is a 3x weekly propo
34 sunrisevalley : Except that it needs 400,000 passengers a year for the U.S. to set up pre-clearing. I don't think AKL is there yet.
35 aerorobnz : Yes I am I'm afraid- not really because now 787 is underway finally or that I honestly think the 789 will have too much wrong with it, more because I
36 Post contains images Kaiarahi : That's 21:00 - 22:30 for pax connecting from Eastern Canada. Except it involves being photographed and fingerprinted, which are not required when you
37 koruman : I'd be surprised if Shannon has enough US-bound passengers to be eligible for pre-clearance while Auckland doesn't. In fact, I'd say the same of Dubli
38 Kaiarahi : But it's much cheaper to rotate staff through YHZ, YEG, YWG than AKL. If necessary, replacement officers can get there in an hour or two. I'm not sure
39 mercure1 : I guess there goes the business plan of airlines like Emirates. Frankly, I doubt it matters much to most. People tend to look at departure/arrival ti
40 Kaiarahi : Depends on your experience, I guess. I did so many middle of the night U.S. immigration/customs clearances in HNL with small kids that I'm totally al
41 DavidByrne : I'm not quite sure how you plan for the unforeseen . . . isn't that a contradiction in terms? I think that A-netters generally are way too harsh on N
42 Post contains links TravellerPlus : This is an interesting article on developments with Vrgin Australia's ownership structure and how they might relate to Air NZ. http://www.smh.com.au/b
43 sunrisevalley : It was quoted in the newspaper in the context of Toronto Island airport and Porter adding additional destinations to the U.S. which it is hoped will
44 aerorobnz : Sure, my choice of words may be wrong, but being better prepared for the worst case scenario instead of always hoping for the best case scenario and
45 koruman : To me, the problem is that Air NZ increasingly wants the 789 to be all things to all men, a bit like Qantas in the 1980s with its "all 747 fleet". It
46 Kaiarahi : Thanks. I think it must be a CBP "internal" threshold, as it's certainly not in the pre-clearance treaty. I forgot to include AKL-HNL in my AKL-U.S.
47 koruman : Soon to be: NZ2 AKL-LAX - 121,180 seats per year. NZ6 AKL-LAX - 103,869 seats per year. NZ8 AKL-SFO - 103,869 seats per year NZ10 AKL-HNL - 48,672 se
48 ZKOJH : its really funny how you read that VA profits are up, NZ spends 300 million on 20% of them, another 350 million on new planes ATR 600, and yet can onl
49 kiwiandrew : Summer routes? So far as I am aware both of these seasonal routes have been announced for winter.
50 Mr AirNZ : I don't know why your worried and I would not have expected either of these to provide immediate returns. New ATRs for a highly profitable part of th
51 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Fyfe vows to keep planes flying and cities serviced'' Air New Zealand will not be parking its planes or dropping any markets as the listed airline l
52 Zkpilot : The whole purpose of a review is to see what areas need to be changed, once the review is completed then these changes can be implemented... so nothi
53 koruman : With respect, Zkpilot, that is embarrassingly naive. If what has emerged about the review is true - and most of what we know comes from what the CEO
54 PA515 : Why would you 'often' take NZ2 when NZ6 departs 2 hrs earlier? Also, pre-clearance would require some extra time at AKL possibly impacting connection
55 Post contains links and images kiwiandrew : Interesting article from CAPA http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...e-as-first-half-profit-falls-68801 One quote which stands out for me is a descrip
56 koruman : It happens to me often. I estimate that 50% of the time I fly BNE-AKL-LAX I end up on NZ2 rather than NZ6. It doesn't massively upset me, as both fli
57 koruman : That is a Rob Fyfe throwaway line. I'd love to see some evidence for the 77L being less efficient than the 77E on AKL-YVR, AKL-SFO, AKL-LAX and HKG-L
58 aerorobnz : hahahahahaha. I know you're serious but it made laugh all the same. I'm sure he will be speaking about Investment+operational costs+resale value whic
59 mariner : It's a good line - it made me smile. The predictable reaction (as you predicted) made me smile, too. I am always amused by those claim to know more a
60 Kaiarahi : Except that, knowing how USCIS/CBP thinks (I'm working with them on a Canadian biometric visa project), I don't think for a moment that they're going
61 koruman : With regards to gates, etc, US flights already depart from the end gates (5-10 from memory) at the end of the pier, and that area has its own duty fr
62 zkojq : 'Flying fuel tank' or not, on longer routes the 77L can carry more payload than a 77E. In particular AKL-YVR and also the potential AKL-GRU. Whether
63 ZKOJH : Norfolk Air Ceases Operation on 26FEB12 Norfolk Island Government-owned carrier Norfolk Air on 26FEB12 will end its operation as the Government has de
64 Post contains links aerorobnz : This has plenty of relevent information to our discussion. http://www.boeing.com/commercial/startup/pdf/777_perf.pdf Make what you will of the informa
65 koruman : Well if the data is accurate then it is fascinating. For a 6000 mile flight: 1) A 304 seat 777-200ER burns 283.9 kg fuel per seat, a total of 86,305.
66 sunrisevalley : Not so, with full passenger load of 280 it can haul more cargo than a 77E , about a volume limited 19t versus 17t. The 789 belly layout allows for on
67 zkojq : Air New Zealand's former 737-300 ZK-SJE has now been painted into the VivaAerobus livery and re-registered XA-VIT.
68 michiganatc : If this isn't the best place to ask this, please let me know where I can: I am going spotting at LAX on either Wednesday 29th February or Thursday 1st
69 mariner : Since you quoted me, I'll say it again - I do not believe anyone here has the numbers to make any informed decision. mariner
70 sunrisevalley : I have seen two flight plans for GRU-AKL, one was an ESAD of 6900nm and the other 7400nm. On the first the 789 is good for max passenger load plus~ 9
71 mariner : From the CAPA article: "Distance is also a problem. While ANZ could reach Buenos Aires or Santiago non-stop from Auckland with its existing fleet, AN
72 sunrisevalley : To this you might add for comparison, the 789 fuel burn (based on 280 seats) over 6000nm is 228.85kg/ seat
73 Zkpilot : I agree with the YVR,SFO,LAX vs the 77E, however I think the 77W would eat the 77L on the LAX-LHR run... as it has more seating capacity, lower fuel
74 sunrisevalley : The week of Feb 10th according to the IATA fuel site put Jet Fuel at $US133 a barrel, up 2.4% in one month and 13.4% in one year
75 mariner : Since then, both Brent Crude and WTI have continued their rise. On 10 February, Brent closed at $118. On 24 February, Brent closed over $125. Add the
76 deconz : I don't have access to the airline schedules. However, the correct rego is ZK-OKQ - perhaps searching on flightaware closer to the date might help yo
77 michiganatc : I apologize...it was an IPAD typo, and I failed to proofread. Yes, I meant ZK-OKQ. Thanks!
78 alangirvan : Air Canada has never operated the 777-200ER. The 77Ls replaced A340s on SYD-YVR. Sometimes 77Ws have been operated on that route with a slight penalt
79 Post contains links xiaotung : http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10788109 Interesting article this morning. I can't figure out what NZ's intention
80 koruman : Oops. True. Sorry. At the risk of digging myself deeper and deeper, am I getting confused with Delta? Didn't they open LAX-SYD with the 77E, then swi
81 Post contains links NZ107 : DL has only operated the 77L to SYD: Delta LAX-SYD July 1 (by Jetfuel Jun 15 2009 in Civil Aviation) http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/19/business
82 nascarnut : OKQ currently scheduled to pass thru LAX as follows Feb 27th NZ2 AKL-LAX-LHR ETA 1400 ETD 1600 Feb 28th NZ1 LHR-LAX-AKL ETA 1915 ETD 2115 Mar 2nd NZ2
83 aerorobnz : The question I'd ask is given that EK can afford to reasonably operate a 77W with payload restrictions why did NZ not order more 77W to improve their
84 alangirvan : yes - despite the fact that Delta is a huge airline, they did not take such a big fleet of 77Es - I think they cancelled a lot of their original orde
85 alangirvan : This is not just an AirNZ thing - a big difference on EK between their new 777s, A380s and the older A332s - you might be disappointed if you arrived
86 aerorobnz : Here is the other reason for installing a bigger fleet of one aircraft type rather than multiple variants. One fleet of 12-15 longhaul only 77Ws in m
87 koruman : Exactly. 10 x 77W for North America and Europe, configured 44J / 44U / 244Y just like now. 6 x 77W for China and Japan, configured 20J / 18U / 380Y.
88 kiwiandrew : Sorry, where are you getting 32 from? According to NZ's website they currently have 4* x 744 , 5 x 763 and 8 x 772. No matter how many times I punch
89 koruman : My brain has let me down again. It should have been 24 ( 8 each of the 763, 77E and 744). Apologies. Clearly I can't watch cricket, rant about an air
90 ZKOJH : NZ have 3 x 744's left in the fleet, 1 more will go next month thus bringing it down to 2x744's to stay in the fleet until 2014 - when the first batch
91 michiganatc : Quoting deconz (Reply 76): am going spotting at LAX on either Wednesday 29th February or Thursday 1st March and I was hoping to see the Rugby "all bla
92 alangirvan : So you are in favour of Invercargill Airport being upgraded to receive 777-300ERs with 550 seats? Ski charter flights from OOL, arriving at midnight
93 Post contains images ZKSUJ : That sounds more realistic than WLG getting regular 77W services
94 Post contains links PA515 : Air NZ's 4th and 5th 789's have been deferred to at least FY16. No delivery info on the 4th to 10th aircraft. The 2011 Annual Results Analyst Presenta
95 Kaiarahi : Obviously, little information will be released on compensation for delayed delivery. However, based on what I am privy to (3 other airlines compensati
96 sunrisevalley : You really need to have access to the line number list to see where the NZ aircraft are in the "pecking order"
97 PA515 : Not really. The Air NZ 2012 Interim Result (Analyst Presentation) has new FY delivery details up to FY15 (30 June 2015). The 4th and 5th aircraft pre
98 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Smoke alarm forces ANZ jet to turn around '' An Air New Zealand plane bound for Hong Kong was forced to turn around mid flight last night and return
99 xiaotung : The picture in the article is clearly not a B777. If the picture is from last night then it was clearly not a Hong Kong flight.
100 aerorobnz : They had positions that needed to be filled, and the PVG crew already have the uniform, some of the longhaul fleet training (77E) and are part of the
101 B744Heavy : I haven't posted here for a while so here goes, I believe New Zealand has signed an Open Skies Agreement with Canada. I also believe that ANZ is also
102 koruman : I was starting to think I was in a minority of one. I have suggested this before, as well as AKL-SFO-LHR and AKL-LAX-MAN. But a certain "business lig
103 BlackLabel : I suspect a lot of passengers, and AIAL, might feel differently about this. Many of my colleagues - who are either regular business or leisure travel
104 koruman : I would argue that pre-clearance would also revolutionise travel to LAX and SFO from both New Zealand and Australia. At present, NZ has lost its leve
105 sunrisevalley : I agree, the difficulty is who will pick up the tab? If AKL found a way of doing it you can bet SYD would not be far behind. Anyway this hysteria sur
106 aerorobnz : Totally agree, and also listen and follow instructions. Never had a single issue with "Good Morning, Yes Sir, No Sir, Thank you"
107 Kaiarahi : I generally agree, but: - It's not much fun if a couple of pax loads ahead of you are from countries that require extensive questioning and processin
108 koruman : My last arrival at LAX was on NZ2 from Auckland, with two flights ahead is us and only 4 of the 12 immigration posts staffed. Pre-clearance would have
109 Kaiarahi : But unfortunately, it's not going to happen. One of the USCIS/CBP people I'm working with (who's in a position to know) said SYD was turned down in t
110 MillwallSean : Some of us might be plianly against the idea that any US government function should be allowed in our airports. Soverigniy and such. I plainly dont wa
111 Kaiarahi : That's what happens, especially the high yield seats in C and U. Look at where Europe is situated geographically and then look where NZL is. You can'
112 sunrisevalley : especially if the fare was to a destination city and included a ground or air cost component to arrive at a through fare to AMS/CDG/FRA/BER Taking a
113 Post contains images kiwiandrew : I love BRU, I lived there for nearly four years, and I fully expect that at some point I will live there again, but...... I really don't see any form
114 sunrisevalley : Will NZ have EDTO 330 on the 77W in time for the Rugby charter to EZE ? I assume the date of the game is Sept. 30th.
115 alangirvan : It is only an Auckland to Sunshine Coast service. They should do flights from the Mainland of NZ as well. Next year AirNZ should do AKL-MCY-CHC-MCY-A
116 byronicle6 : I'd expect PER or ADL from CHC before MCY, or year round from AKL. The service from AKL-MCY hasn't even started yet
117 aerorobnz : No, I wouldn't have thought so. That would be less than one year from first EDTO 240 flight by about 2 months... Anyone know whether like the 77L, th
118 DavidByrne : I believe I read on another thread that in the 77L the optional belly tank is in the wing box, not available for cargo. Maybe the 77W is the same.
119 motorhussy : Would NZ look at putting Y+ into the regional A320 fleet and 767 fleet replacing the existing business? I'm talking about the new product aboard the 7
120 NZ107 : They'd have to completely revamp the spaceseat as it's obviously designed for the width of a 777. I'd say they wouldn't bother but if they were to in
121 motorhussy : The new 77W Y+ takes up the width of three Y class seats so it would work on the A320. There are lots of passengers that miss a larger seat without t
122 koruman : I'm talking primarily about one-stop flights with Air NZ crew bases at either end. I agree - if you're in an affluent market like the USA or EU. But
123 Post contains images zkojq : Aircraft in question was ZK-OKE. The New Zealand media is always a bit of a joke when it comes to reporting on aviation matters. I remember that when
124 sunrisevalley : The lower compartment diagrams in the 77L ACAP sheets show the AFT's located in the rear cargo space just behind the landing gear bay.
125 MillwallSean : Is it? Those flights werent profitable last time I looked nor did the high yielding business class segement do well. Yet again, no LAX-LHR doesnt ear
126 ZKOJH : why would NZ even dream of flying to BKK when you have TG on the route who is also in Star Alliance - the best they would come up with is a code-share
127 Post contains images sunrisevalley : Yes, how about ?
128 sunrisevalley : An AFT adds about 5.7t of fuel but if you are at MTOW and full fuel load I don't think it is going to do you any good. You would need an increase in
129 aerorobnz : Thanks, I had a vague memory there was something like that holding the 77W back from even greater things...gotta wait for that NG after all.
130 Post contains images deconz : While I doubt many on here would have the actual numbers, I worked in Corporate Travel in London for 6 years and NZ has made HUGE in roads to the ent
131 koruman : I agree with most of the rest of what you've put in your post, but not this. The most recent information was that both LAX-LHR and HKG-LHR are profit
132 Post contains images Kaiarahi : That I agree with. USCIS/CBP won't foot the costs on their own, but if the business case can be made that AKL/NZ make stationing officers in AKL cost
133 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Auckland Airport profit up 5.5 %'' Auckland International Airport, New Zealand's biggest gateway, posted a 5.5 per cent increase in first-half profi
134 aerorobnz : For any idea NZ have at the moment, it must present a monetary value/saving to NZ, if it offers little return/saving/justification on expenditure then
135 PA515 : The Argentina game is on Saturday 29th September, Sunday 30th September in NZ. There's no NZ6 Tue 25th and Thu 27th, so ZK-OKQ is available from Tues
136 PA515 : I can't see Virgin Australia supporting an initiative that undermines their MEL-LAX, BNE-LAX and SYD-LAX nonstop flights. PA515
137 mariner : Would it undermine them? If I wanted to fly MEL-LAX non-stop, I'd do so, whether there was pre-clearance in AKL or not. It isn't something I get my k
138 Post contains images sunrisevalley : Think about it, the funding by NZ and AIA of about a $1.5 to $2m a year for staff is rather a drop in the bucket in the total budget of both organisa
139 DavidByrne : I think that $5 or $6 per outbound passenger is probably more than the profit margin on many flights!
140 aklrno : In the discussions on US pre-clearance I don't think anyone mentioned that if US flights were pre-cleared then there is no longer a need to use T-2 at
141 koruman : When I fly into LAX it is either to stay in southern California or to connect to Air Canada (within T2) or to US Airways in T1, less than 100 metres
142 aklrno : But wouldn't that make LHR pre-clearance more efficient? And don't they have to deal with those pax a few hours later when they are in the US? If any
143 Post contains links ZKOJH : Is the market really changing that much?? ''QANTAS Ends Widebody Service on Trans-Tasman Route from May 2012'' QANTAS starting 08MAY12 is ending Wide-
144 NZ107 : And Air New Zealand has just killed the last remaining leg of Airpoints Dollars. Standby and confirmed upgrades are gone as of 30 May; in favour of th
145 ZKOJH : ''Koruman'' will like this then! I ditched NZ ff program it is one of the worse around and gone to LH ''miles and more'' more wrong changes there maki
146 koruman : Yes, I will be much, much quieter on this forum now. I have three remaining Air NZ trips, one with upgrades already confirmed and the other two booked
147 xiaotung : Koruman, I am with you. There had always been a line where NZ just crossed today. It's been great fun but all that's left to do is working out an exi
148 koruman : You know, Xiaotung, I knew this day was coming, and it's almost a relief for me - and probably for those sick of my posts. My parents defected eightee
149 gasman : All over for me. Thanks for your sympathy K'man, but I believe (?wishfully) that the current paucity of options facing New Zealanders at the moment w
150 aerorobnz : I hope those of you who are leaving are in fact sending in your elite cards addressed to the CEO, cut up and with a letter demanding that the airline
151 sunrisevalley : Isn't all this in line with Fyfe's statement more than a year ago that NZ is a LCC. An example of whitling away at the remaining bits and pieces to b
152 Post contains links macilree : There is an article in The Star from Malaysia claiming to have a source about the future of the AirAsia X KUL-CHC operation.
153 kiwiandrew : OK, I will admit that I have often felt posters here were prone to doing a "chicken little" act, running around telling everyone that the sky is falli
154 Post contains links 777ER : WLGs landing fees are increasing - http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post...10467/Airport-to-hike-landing-fees On a different matter, yesterday at work
155 aerorobnz : Yes, it was painted for the world cup last year. in the words of Little Britain's Vikki "Yeah but no but yeah but no but". Something like this has th
156 cchan : Well done. You finally do it! I hope you mean Cathay Pacific. Don't think China Southern is a very reliable airline to begin with.
157 Post contains images koruman : No, I meant China Southern as their Business Class is cheaper than NZ Premium Economy. I'm not the sort to chop up my card and write off my five digit
158 Post contains images Kaiarahi : From the Solent Coral Route (my first NZ flight) to this I'm in a slightly different boat, because many of the places I need to get to in Canada are o
159 sunrisevalley : Because as Mr Fyfe said we are ( dumbing down to be ) a low cost carrier. Putting the 789's on Asian destinations is entirely consistent with this so
160 ZKOJH : Well the CEO is going out the door and leaving a bit of a mess behind him, so someone now has to pick up the pieces again and get the airline on a sou
161 koruman : The astonishing thing here is the intellectual bankruptcy of the decision. And the negligence of a Board which affords such autonomy to a CEO who bank
162 mariner : Contemptuous - already? Hopefully some will read it with an open mind. mariner
163 DavidByrne : The following from ATW No great surprises here: * Returning NZ6 to daily earlier was almost a given - it's now happening in mid-June, where it was pre
164 gasman : Why are you astonished? This is from the management outfit that brought us 10 abreast on a 777, Rico, Seats to suit, designed an innovative Y+ produc
165 ZKOJH : Following NZ's increase into North America from June I did a random dig on the website and came up with the following; Auckland to Los Angeles - Sat 1
166 deconz : Yes NZ 8 is AKL/SFO and it takes 15 odd hours because the routing for this option is AKL/SFO/LAX
167 nascarnut : The Saturday schedule will look like this NZ4 AKL ETD 1700 LAX ETA 1015 772 NZ6 AKL ETD 1940 LAX ETA 1255 77W NZ2 AKL ETD 2130 LAX ETA 1445 77W NZ8 A
168 cchan : Interestingly, on 1 Nov NZ39 AKL-HKG-LHR is 77W, and NZ2 AKL-LAX-LHR is 77E. Any idea why?
169 sunrisevalley : I believe this is an error. I recollect NZ1 saying that the 77W did not have the appropriate oxygen system to fly the HKG - LHR sector.
170 sunrisevalley : Is there no demand for a daylight flight in either direction? If NZ4 was to turn around as NZ3 at noon it would be back in AKL at 10.15pm.
171 nzrich : Day light flights have been done before . Sadly they were not as popular due to no connections at either end and people missing a day of holiday in L
172 gasman : Had a curious start to my day today. Flying AKL-MEL (as you do) on an Air NZ ticket, with this leg being flown by DJ165. Supposedly I was off to a two
173 TravellerPlus : Gasman. I've awesome respect for you in the way you stepped up in a critical situation. I hope that you are OK. I don't know your background, so forgi
174 NZ107 : Well done, I congratulate you on that. Can't say the same about Air NZ though.. I wonder if someone higher up would be able to help you. Surely someo
175 gasman : Cheers!. Yes I'm a medic myself. Not a lot of room in the aisle of a 737! Was made easier by the fact that artificial respiration has now disappeared
176 koruman : Well done Gasman. Don't you know that the new policy for raising ancillary revenue requires you to bid for a refund? They were impressed by the UK air
177 Post contains images gasman : Brilliant Turns out you are absolutely correct. Unbenownst to myself, there was another pax at the rear of the aircraft receiving a heart-lung transp
178 Post contains images ZKOJH : Quoting nascarnut (Reply 167): NZ4 AKL ETD 1700 LAX ETA 1015 772 Quoting nascarnut (Reply 167): NZ3 LAX ETD 2345 AKL ETA 0745 772 so 13 hrs on the gro
179 Post contains images sunrisevalley : [quote=ZKOJH,reply=178]it's interesting to see that China Southern have ordered 10 x 77W's and can get them as early as next year. Something wish NZ h
180 Post contains images ZKOJH : will NZ become the new FR of the south Pacific ! take out toilets, make everyone stand! ha-ha i'm jumping ship now !! it's a sad time and I wish them
181 axio : I was wondering if the timing was for staffing. Having NZ3 leave at 1200 would require departures staff in the morning, whereas this schedule only re
182 aerorobnz : I don't want to promise something I can't absolutely deliver on, but I will take it up on your behalf with someone that may be able to assist your pl
183 byronicle6 : Gasman, Wow what an unexpected and unusual start to your day!. I have a lot of respect for you to do something like that, and very disappointed at NZ'
184 aerorobnz : to serve two smaller markets without reducing frequency to the extent that it becomes pointless. It's a pity NZ longhaul does not work the same way.
185 Post contains images zkojq : Can anyone tell me the date and time that ZK-NBT and ZK-NBU are due to leave New Zealand for good? ZK-NBU made her last flight for Air New Zealand on
186 Post contains links A330NZ : Wow, Gasman, I'm glad there are passengers like you out there! That passenger should be very greatful! I was reading an article on stuff about D7 cons
187 Zkpilot : Well LAX rates are actually not bad (as most airlines don't use LAX as a parking lot so its not really space constrained in that regard). NZs 744s ha
188 deconz : as the flight continues onto WLG ... as in TUO-WAG-WLG
189 Post contains images gasman : Thanks so much for all your kind words guys! If you'll excuse the cliche, I really was just doing my job (although it was unpaid - which I'm quite ha
190 Kaiarahi : Utterly appalling. Which, if they go too far, will get NZ kicked out of *A. LH and AC (don't know about UA) are already pissed off with them for thei
191 NZ107 : Oh wait a minute, that's Virgin Australia...
192 gasman : A message to Rob Fyfe has sorted the issue out. Shouldn't have come to that of course, but you have to hand it to Rob - what other CEO would provide
193 777ER : I booked flights to Bali last night and noticed (checked both on a work computer and at home afterwards) that the launch flights oneway for 'seat' onl
194 ZK-NBT : So whats the difference from that to what has happened for years? NZ6 spends about 10-12 hours at LAX. Connections connections connections!!! NZ did
195 IndianicWorld : ^^ Frankly I just can not see how any new carrier would look at CHC as a viable option at this stage. Seems like a hard sell to get people there curre
196 NZ107 : And I'd expect it to go that way. AKL will have to go 2x daily all year round first I reckon. If those words are true about another airline into CHC:
197 777ER : I heard an interesting rumor this week......D7 could be looking at either AKL, HLZ or WLG instead of CHC. AKL surprises me considering MH's services.
198 alangirvan : The original idea was that Air Asia X would not fly to cities where they competed against MH - this idea did not last very long, but they did start to
199 aerorobnz : The only extra flights CHC needs right now are AN124s bringing in building supplies, bulldozers etc. Until CHC is repaired satisfactorily the chances
200 Post contains links ZKOJH : Now the Media has it let the sparks fly! ''Air NZ accused of driving away frequent flyers'' Air New Zealand is being accused of driving away its most
201 aerorobnz : Xiaotung, Well done for getting mentioned in the Herald.. You could become the "Erin Brockavich" of the airpoints scheme.... Publicity like this is b
202 Post contains links cchan : Thank you for your contributions in this thread, please continue the discussion in New Zealand Aviation Thread # 112 (by PA515 Mar 5 2012 in Civil Avi
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