bastew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1007 posts, RR: 2 Posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11167 times:
Not long after starting the route Delta is dropping MIA-LHR due to high costs and fuel prices.
It gained slots to operate the route when BA/AA had to relinquish a slot on the LHR-MIA route in order to gain Anti Trust immunity.
These changes are on the back of Deltas' announcement that it will also cease LGW-ATL completely withdrawing service from that airport and increasing frequency on LHR-ATL.
dtwpilot225 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 98 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11174 times:
Delta had also set up a mini operation for Pinnacle out of MIA to connect these london flights. Pinnacle is and or was doing MIA-TPA, MIA-MCO, MIA JAX, and MIA RDU. I think all of those are going away as well.
peanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1310 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11078 times:
Something smells. DL needs way more time for a route to develop. Why wouldn't they stick it out? Stick it out at least for the period that the slot deal would have required...
so:
-Numbers really look terrible, no reason to hang in there...DL may be predicting oil prices to soar even more soon.
-Something in the works with VS
-DL wants to make a gutsy move with a very uncertain outcome (AA assets)
If it's none of the above I would consider this a major "strategic MIA and/or LHR adjustment".
[Edited 2012-02-24 05:42:33]
Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
bastew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1007 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10938 times:
I agree. Maybe they jumped in a bit too quick without doing the proper sums as they slot that had to be relinquished by BA/AA was open to all bidders. With BA starting a 3rd daily flight end of march the competition would have been ramped up ever more as well which would have put even more pressure on DL's yield.
skymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 469 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10827 times:
such a shame -- I did a R/T MIA LHR in December and it was great, and convenient, and was planning another in May.
I understood that the equipment would change to a 763 from the 764, but with the lie flats, in J etc.
davescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2244 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10741 times:
LHR- MIA has heavy competion from BA/AA. Remember, connections to South America on AA go out of MIA, so there are good connections both there and into the US.
DL had no real support for the routes that are not leisure routes (TPA, MCO, etc.) RDU already has a London route (AA), BA has TPA and MCO. So where was the need for DL's MIA- LHR? DL doesn't heave a massive MIA route.
What would make more sense is for DL to begin a route to LHR where they can have more contracts and higher fare pax (LAX for example? maybe BOS or SLC?).
MIA- CDG/AMS would have made more sense as part of a JV I would think.
staralliance85 From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 171 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10572 times:
The only strong routes that DL has from London are to JFK, ATL and maybe DTW. Any other routes are Not worth it for DL. They probably got killed by AA/BA on the MIA route because MIA is Not even a DL focus city and a strong OW hub. DL just needs to focus on JFK and ATL as their international gateways. What DL needs the most is VS. ST can use a new good member. It doesn't seem like *A members like LH (BMI deal to BA) and UA (Not picking up CO's relationship with VS) are so eager to have a relationship with VS. VS is certainly Not going to OW so they need ST.
However, SQ owning 49% of VS could be in a conflict of interest if they allow them to join ST. DL/AF/KL should strike a deal to SQ and Sir RB and make it happen. Dl will Not have to add more flights to LHR but codeshare with VS and would be a win win situation for both parties. DL would have code shares with VS to JFK, EWR, IAD, MIA, ORD, LAS, LAX and SFO. VS has a healthy prescence at JFK so it would be perfect in having a relationship with DL. Maybe even do a slot swap with *A members who want to be at EWR, close to UA.
As for LGW, it was Yesterdays News and it was inevitable that they were going to cut that route.
flymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6297 posts, RR: 6 Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10387 times:
There is no way in their short time in the route they could establish the route well enough to get some of the higher fares which of course due to MIA's AA hub AA/BA get most of. The planes were full but just full with low fares. They were competing with the monster of AA/BA which BA is going to start a 3rd daily flight from MIA soon. AA has its daily flight and on some days two-three flights to LHR from MIA and of course VS daily MIA-LHR. That is a lot of competition but also a very large market. But they just did not A) establish themselves long enough and B) Have that little bit of extra feed that could make the route work a bit better.
Quoting davescj (Reply 8): What would make more sense is for DL to begin a route to LHR where they can have more contracts and higher fare pax (LAX for example? maybe BOS or SLC?).
They do fly BOS-LHR they started both BOS-LHR and MIA-LHR because they were given the slots once BA/AA got their ATI. But the slots can only be used for MIA-LHR and BOS-LHR.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
MAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10371 times:
Does AA/BA connect a decent amount of people through MIA going to/from Europe to Latin America?
I know millions of people connect from domestic destinations through MIA to Latin America, but am curious how many go international to international.
incitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 3777 posts, RR: 14 Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10326 times:
Quoting flymia (Reply 10): There is no way in their short time in the route they could establish the route well enough to get some of the higher fares which of course due to MIA's AA hub AA/BA get most of.
That is not what we read here at the time. We read that DL has a huge FF base in South Florida's huge market and making the flight viable would be easy. Many folks stated that MIA-LHR had a far better chance than BOS-LHR. Even though BOS isn't really anybody's hub.
Overall I say kudos to DL. If they can hold on to BOS-LHR, it is a significant win for them.
fxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7027 posts, RR: 93 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10303 times:
Where in the announcement does it say that AA was kicking their butt and they are axing the route? Comical they thought they could compete out of MIA. Delta dartboard strikes again.
planesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 802 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10272 times:
Quoting flymia (Reply 10): They do fly BOS-LHR they started both BOS-LHR and MIA-LHR because they were given the slots once BA/AA got their ATI. But the slots can only be used for MIA-LHR and BOS-LHR.
It is worth noting that the BOS route has been cut from twice daily down to one flight, so it is not performing either.
delta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 576 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10197 times:
I was shocked to read 12 whole posts before somebody said this. I think DL should just never start a new route again; if a route is successful, nobody cares; if it isn't, somebody brings up the dartboard. That's the best part of A-Net; total predictability for every topic discussed.
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
LDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 754 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9968 times:
Quoting mikey72 (Reply 16): Do the slots now go back to BA/AA or will another airline have a go at LHR-MIA ?
If no one applies for the slots, BA can make use of them until the next allocation period. After 10 years, the slots revert permanently back to BA. (They are BA's, not AA's slots.)
TeamInTheSky From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 507 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9564 times:
I had friends come in from BHM to LHR and they were routed to ATL to MIA then to LHR. So if the planes were full, it was because people were taking very cheap fares to be routed through a couple of places.
I tend to think that VS and DL are very close to forming a codesharing relationship. This has been in the works, but from what I understand, VS's asking price was too high for DL. With BA consolidating power, VS has to find a strong partner in the USA, especially with the agreement with CO ending. For DL, it makes sense since they will have relationships with both VS and DJ.
However, as staralliance aptly points out, I don't think DL will be adding VS to SkyTeam or even a JV because of SQ's ownership.
Since 2010: DL, KL, AF, WX, IG, FR , FL, U2, AK, BA, OK, UX
jfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2664 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8289 times:
Amazing that a bunch of aviation novices such as myself here on a.net knew this route would never work. Yet Delta is paying someone a very nice salary in ATL to make these decisions and they didn't see it.
Really makes you wonder how firm that ground you walk on really is. Likely lost millions if not tens of millions with this stupid experiment.
LONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 634 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8111 times:
Quoting delta2ual (Reply 15): I was shocked to read 12 whole posts before somebody said this. I think DL should just never start a new route again; if a route is successful, nobody cares; if it isn't, somebody brings up the dartboard. That's the best part of A-Net; total predictability for every topic discussed.
The dartboard exists. I've past several offices in HQ that have wall maps with little holes in it (evidence of dart throwing).
fxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7027 posts, RR: 93 Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7961 times:
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21): Amazing that a bunch of aviation novices such as myself here on a.net knew this route would never work. Yet Delta is paying someone a very nice salary in ATL to make these decisions and they didn't see it.
The DL koolaid drinkers continue to argue this opinion but I agree with you. I have no allegiance to any airline including the one I work for. I use common sense when I talk about DL and their dartboard.
hiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2118 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7915 times:
I smell a deal out there....to give it up before high summer season there has got to be some incentive beside keeping the aircraft......England is good money during the summer no matter what.
25 simairlinenet: You mean the wall maps on which Delta employees plan future vacations? Because I have one of those...
26 EricR: It may appear that way, but we really do not know what the rationale was behind launching and subsequently discontinuing the route. There could have
27 ebbuk: Nobody can make a new route work with 767s. Not with fuel prices as they are and the rate at which that planes burns it. Was never going to work on th
28 airbazar: I suppose that's why the 767 outnumbers any other aircraft on TATL routes
29 ks5114: What jet did they use on this route? 763 or 772?
30 klkla: Where did DL get the additional slots for ATL-LHR that are being added at around the same time that this route is being discontinued?
31 dlramp4life: DL is cutting back in Europe, that is one of the things that is going on for the 2012 year, grow in south america and asia, cut back in europe because
32 OOer: This is just such a stupid move. If the route was losing money, why wasn't it axed in November? No...instead they're going to kill it right before the
33 planesailing: 764. The MIA route is being returned as per the conditions of the lease and is already posted for tender again, with a closing date in March. There i
34 skipness1E: This is complete nonsense, you have a better platform to launch a new route? No, of course not, it's not the aircraft it's the prevailing market domi
35 PHX Flyer: What a surprise ... NOT! Why US airlines ever agreed to the current LHR slot policy is beyond me. Of course, the reason for the route cancellation is
36 burnsie28: According to network it is "LGW station closure and route moves to LHR" take it for what its worth.
37 ChrisNH: Well, if they don't want to be laughed at endlessly they'll stick it out. No airline has started and then ceased more routes out of Boston than Delta
38 AAIL86: Just goes to show how hard it is these days to venture outside the hub. Everyone knows that AA or UA not could compete on DTW-AMS (AMS is not LHR, I
39 jporterfi: I'm not surprised that Delta wasn't profitable on a route outside its hub. AA and BA probably had that route covered; for Delta, it was probably a lon
40 slcdeltarumd11: It is not a 757 possible route. Between AA and BAs FF bases in BOTH cities it seemed like a crazy dartboard route anyway. Much like PHL-LAX you are f
41 jmc1975: This is not a surprise...it was the perhaps the biggest herpderp that DL has done in recent years.
42 BobLoblaw: I thought Delta never planned on operating it for too long. I think the rules between UK and USA gave another carrier the ability to fly MIA-LHR nonst
43 burnsie28: It's out of range, but in reality the LHR routes were big on promoting the lie flats that the 764 offered.
44 IrishAyes: Yes, but product offering alone isn't going to steal market share away when there are other very important variables that give AA and BA a leg up ove
45 skipness1E: Worth mentioning that some Heathrow flight numbers were changed at the start of Feb. DL6 / 5 DTW renumbered DL18 / 19 DL148 / 149 renumbered DL1 / 6 S
46 doulasc: This doesn't surprise me. American and British Airways has that route with plenty of flights. When Delta took over the Atlantic routes from Pan Am in
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