Cmm340 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 59 posts, RR: 0 Posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 858 times:
Hey guys, just got this today thought some of you may find it interesting.
Official press release of the details of C3's plans on the polar route to India, the new 340-300, flight shedule, and pricing.
Should be intersting to see(and work, hehehehe).
Cmm340 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 59 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 736 times:
Forgot to mention that yesterday while in LGW saw three C3 a/c, all at the same terminal, all in full livery, if only i had my camera on me.
The flight for them from there were:
And from the sounds of things in months to come there will be a nice A340 there intransit on it's way to India, now that would be nice too see if they were all there at the same time.
This has become, of course a regular sight at T3 in YYZ Can't wait to see all the C3 a/c in full livery hogging the inner gates at T3@YYZ.
Remember when you could count C3's a/c all on two hands?
Airtransam From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 687 times:
The current service being offered on Canada 3000 in there C3 club section is very DISAPOINTING! Infact its a joke. I hope that the excecutive cabin will be worth the $7500.00. Is there anyone who has info on the executive cabin service?? Will it match or exceed the services being offered by other major airlines such as KLM/SwissAir/Lufthansa etc??
BigD From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 89 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 678 times:
What specifically can you tell us about the Club C3 service? Are the seats really small? From as far as I can gather, they are really no more than economy "plus." Any detail you can provide would be appreciated.
Airtransam From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 680 times:
what I meant was as u may agree with me, if your a C3 employee the C3 Club class does not even come close to being compared to Business let alone First of any major airline. Im just hopeing that with the brand new aircraft and the new "excecutive class" that a service plan will be established which exceeds the level of service offered by other airlines on a route this long in there first or business class cabin. The PTV's and 60" pitch is a very good start.
Crosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2592 posts, RR: 59 Reply 10, posted (12 years 4 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 675 times:
Club C3 doesn't even come close to a Business Class service because it isn't supposed to be a business class service.
Club C3 is a premium economy cabin of the type only offered by a small but growing number of airlines. Including;
Air Transat (Club Transat)
Airtours (Premiair Gold)
Air 2000 (Classic Premium)
bmi british midland (New Economy)
Britannia (360 Premium)
British Airways (World Traveller Plus)
EVA Air (Evergreen Deluxe)
JMC Airlines (JMC+)
Monarch (Premium Cabin)
Skyservice (Premier Class)
United Airlines (Economy Plus)
Virgin Atlantic (Premium Economy)
I'm sure there are more! But, you get the idea, it's unfair to compare Club C3 to other airlines Business Class cabins, just as it would be unfair to compare bmi's New Economy Class to British Airways' Club World.
Cmm340 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 59 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (12 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 608 times:
Slawko, i realized what i had said bout the A340 being in LGW after i had posted the message..hehe ooops!
Anyways, my two cents worth on the Club C3, and i emphasize "club C3" not first class, not business class, but as crosswinds mentioned an upgraded ecomony class.
Angus Kinnear introduced this new class to Canada3000 as a result of raising requests from the public for an "alternative", and two months since it's introduction, this class is full, once again...in two months now this class is now full most of the time. Canada3000 never claims itself to be, the next Canadi>n, why do something that has already proven itself to be a sure thing for disaster. Canada3000 has always grown very slowly, and as a result is are still here. They don't have outstanding orders for a ton of expensive 737's which i'm sure will be paid for through increased airfares, nor have they ever had to lay-off 4000 people. So i guess what i'm trying to say, is rapid expansion, in size and amount of service has never been C3's way of doing things and i don't see it becoming part of their way of doing things in the near future. Unfortunately, some seem to forget that C3 are still in a process of a merger, recent unionization of their fa's, and somehow still post an $84million profit(if i remember that amount correctly), along side of Westjet who is also doing very well considering we are ALL coping with increasing fuel charges and economic slowdown. I believe Airtransat will also post a nice profit as well. I believe we will always have(or at least for a long time) an AirCanada, A Westjet, a Canada3000, and an AirTransat
Ok rambling on here, i know but...
Back to the Club C3, if i remember correctly, many, if not all, of the 737's, don't even have full galleys(no ovens) in them or a PES, so if on one of C3's A320's for eg. you will have drinks, headsets, newspapers, and a hot meal and more, whereas on say an ex-Royal or ex-Canjet 737, you'll get maybe a small fraction of this. So until C3 gets rid of those damn 737's, and gets their certification to be ONE airline, instead of three separate ones, there will be a wide range of differences even within the services being offered in Club C3. Only after which i'm sure there will be some modifications to this new class. You get what you pay for. If you want Air Canada's full service first class then you can't expect to pay C3's fares for it.
I'm sure this will stir up the pot some here in the forum
Anyways on a lighter note watch for possible new service soon to Athens, the Phillipines, and a few more biggie long haul destinations, especially if C3 opts to get the second A340 they have the option for. That out of the rumour-mill lately.
Cmm340 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 59 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (12 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 600 times:
Actually i have heard similar.
In our new inflight mag. good old Kinnear even goes so far as to mention expansion into eastern Europe, and the South Pacific.
Some of those you listed are more likely than others.
Was trying to find yesterday to refresh my memory, but with no luck, the press release where he states about hoping to increase fleet size over the next couple of years by either 30something a/c, or 30something percent, don't remember exactly, but it was quite a number he mentioned.
Cmm340 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 59 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (12 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 589 times:
A340-600, would definately be cool.
Doubt we'll ever see those though.
But we can dream.
Curious to see what happens when the leases are up. Ex-Royal A310's (two of them) are up at the end of this month, and at least 2 of C3's 757-200ER's have expiring leases also in the next couple of months. Wonder if we'll be seeing any Ex-AirCanada 767-200's coming our way seeing they're giving a bunch of them up. I have heard rumour we are to be getting 767's, or some new A310's. Personally i would prefer the 767's. Anyone else heard similar? Slawko any news from your side?
Polaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1133 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (12 years 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 582 times:
With regards to additional foreign destinations for Canada 3000, the only foreign scheduled rights they now have are to the US, UK, France, Germany, India. All other foreign services are operated under their charter licence.
Any word on if Canada 3000 has any applications for additional scheduled services to foreign destinations?
Any word on how Canada 3000 will differentiate between their scheduled and charter services? Number of seats on aircraft, seat pitch, service, fares, etc?
AC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (12 years 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 579 times:
The seating configuration on this 340 is interesting - only a few more seats than AC uses, and fewer seats on their 340-300 than on the shorter 330-200. This makes me wonder - is this just because the aircraft is coming from Sabena? Or perhaps it's because of the long flight legs to India would probably be load-restricted anyways? Or is this the beginning of a more roomy executive and/or economy class on other flights (perhaps all aircraft? Or maybe just intercontinental?). Anyone have any idea???
Haven't heard anything on 67's outside of this site, but it would seem a reasonable replacement for 310/757 capacity, and would fit commonality with the 57's fairly well. I highly doubt, however, that C3 would pick up ex-AC 762's.
As far as international expansion, I think they should be (and indeed are) seeking rights to Japan, especially the Calgary market has potential IMO. But overall, I think C3 should look again at more point-to-point routes within Canada and out of cities other than Toronto and Vancouver. Why? Well, AC is basically only interested in routes that can support year-round daily service as a minimum, so C3 could run the lower-density routes quite well in competition with AC's connecting network. Also, IMO the real forte in C3's route network in the past has been the willingness to fly point-to-point routes on a seasonal/weekly basis. Take the Moncton-Calgary route for example. C3 used to offer weekly flights. Now they switched to connections via YYZ, so they can offer better frequency. But why not supplement that with weekly nonstops? Nonstops are more efficient in terms of fuel costs and landing fees, for one thing, but more importantly it's good for PR, and good for many centres that need their air service networks developed, not just hubbed through YYZ. Also, as weekends usually have reduced frequency on many routes, scheduling these sorts of flights for weekends would fit in well. There's plenty of other examples of routes C3 should look at doing this with. (YEG-YHZ is another).
Cmm340 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 59 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (12 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 576 times:
Just my thoughts.
Applications are in for landing rights at some new destinations, or so the rumour goes. As to where and when, I guess we'll have to wait and see. Some of these rumours are flying around all over the place, but coming from people who seem to be "in the know". The A340 from Sabena rumour was around for the longest time.
Yes this is a heavy-weight of an A340 we're getting from Sabena, so i would guess as a result the passenger capacity and cargo restrictions have resulted in a strange configuration in comparison to our A330, not to mention this a/c has a middle galley, which is unlike any of our other a/c. Throw in "clubC3" and a middle galley into our A330, and i'm sure it's seating configuration would be a lot different from what it is now.
A scheduled flight for C3 is identified as 2t, whilst cmm appears to identify the charter flight.
For example i mentioned that there were three a/c in LGW all at the same time, their flight numbers were listed as follows if i remember correctly:
2t776 (sched service to YEG/YVR)
2t312 (sched service to YOW/YYZ)
cmm312 (supplemental charter to YYZ)
The service is no different on a charter vs a scheduled flight. Cabin crew are given manuals as to the service to be offered on board any of our a/c on every flight based on time of flight ie: red-eye, long sector pm, short sector am, etc. A short sector am scheduled flight gets the same service as a short sector am charter flight.
67's would be awesome, and can't see why they couldn't come from AC, if the ones AC are getting rid of are going back to ILFC. We do most if not all our leasing from them.
As far as the domestic front, seeing where things were before the Royal/Canjet purchase and where things are now, that has been a big step for C3(we're not sure in what direction that step was yet..hehehehehe). The plan: I think we're up to about 10to12 A319's on order which start arriving in October, and rumour has it that Kinnear is considering a large request for the A318, obviously neither of these a/c types will be flying over seas so they will be used to increase frequency domestically and on transborder. Plus we will be retiring/phasing out the 737's(thank God). We also used to have temp bases in various Canadian cities, like Halifax, and Edmonton, these no longer exist as they used to.
Personally i think we should master what we're doing now before we start upping the ante. We need the manpower, the a/c, and a unified airline first. We're flying our pants off over here at C3, and can't seem to get the manpower trained and online as fast as the routes and flights are being added.
Slowly but i'm sure surely.
Slawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9 Reply 21, posted (12 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 556 times:
The 767-200's that AC is getting rid of are the -200 Domestics, so they are useless to us, they can just make paris from toronto, not much eles. 767's are probably they way they will go, but they will be -300ER's to meet the range/capacity needs of C3. UAE and SQ have the A310ER's but they are not retiring them at a fast enough rate, and Transat is taking UAE's. THe A310's are also range restricted and could not do flights from Toronto to Kyiv or Warsaw (at least not our current ones.) As for new routes, only Zurich will be added next year.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
Slawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9 Reply 22, posted (12 years 4 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 556 times:
The interior layout of the A340 is a bit of both Sabena A/C and the need for more room on long routes. The plane did go back on the assembly line for some interior work, and some toys were removed, but for the most part they have to keep the stuff in order to keep people happy for 14++ hours.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
Cmm340 From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 59 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (12 years 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 540 times:
Hey Slawko great info.
Personally, I'm imbevalent as to where the 767's come from(if we get them) but would still nice to have. Although the 757 is a great a/c they are horrible to work on as a fa. Not to mention the bulk of complaints on lack of space comes from this a/c the most. At least with a double aisle in a 767, pax could feel free to stand up and stretch those legs instead of feeling like a pain in the neck by being in our way when they do so on the 757. Anyways, this just from the crews point of view. Space wise it would be so much nicer to work on.
Glad to hear they have left some toys in the A340, cause i can only entertain for so long on a 14hr++ flight, looking forward to seeing this a/c.
Great for Zurich, but i wouldn't doubt there being more to come. Like i mentioned if i remember correctly Kinnear did state in the latest Inflight mag, that he's looking to expand further into the South Pacific, and Eastern Europe. Now whether or not an application has been made or if this is still just a little idea in his head, i'm not sure. I know he's already tried the Philippines once already.There are some new sun destinations this year now whether they're charter or sched is beyond me, or whether they're operated by QN or by C3, etc, etc.
Anyways great info Slawko et al.
Will go see what other dirt i can dig up this weekend.