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Largest US Carrier To LHR?  
User currently offlineBACCALA From United States of America, joined May 2009, 133 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12788 times:

I know CO/UA combined flights are about 15 or so as of June 1st. Looks like the 747-400 wont be doing the summer route from SFO-LHR.

EWR 5 flights 4 757-200, 1 777-200
IAH 2 flights 777-200
SFO 2 flights 77-200
LAX 1 flight 777-200
ORD 3 flights all 767-300
IAD 3 flights all 767-300
DEN ?

What about AA, DL, and US?

[Edited 2012-02-27 17:12:51]

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6559 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12790 times:

I would guess its AA by a mile.......maybe less with UA/CO merger. Interestingly, they paid TWA 445mil for 3 routes: LAX, JFK & BOS...IIRC


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently onlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4578 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12721 times:

Well, things get a bit fuzzy if you also count the BA flights since technically they are AA flights, although also technically they are not! Such interesting times we live in!

User currently offlineB377 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12630 times:

Heres AA Eastbound Schedule effective June 14:

Carrier Acft FreqFlight Orig Time Time Dest

AA 763 D 90 ORD 9:10 22:45 LHR
AA 777 D 86 ORD 18:10 7:50 LHR
AA 777 D 46 ORD 19:25 9:05 LHR
AA 777 D 98 ORD 21:45 11:25 LHR

AA 777 D 50 DFW 16:50 7:50 LHR
AA 763 X3 26 DFW 17:15 8:30 LHR
AA 777 D 78 DFW 19:45 10:45 LHR
AA 777 D 80 DFW 21:25 12:25 LHR

AA 777 D 142 JFK 9:40 9:30 LHR
AA 777 D 100 JFK 18:10 6:20 LHR
AA 777 D 138 JFK 19:35 7:40 LHR
AA 777 D 104 JFK 21:00 9:00 LHR
AA 777 D 106 JFK 23:00 11:00 LHR

AA 777 D 56 MIA 18:35 8:10 LHR

AA 777 D 136 LAX 19:55 14:15 LHR

AA 757 D 156 BOS 9:00 20:40 LHR
AA 757 D 108 BOS 20:10 7:45 LHR
AA 757 D 124 BOS 22:25 10:05 LHR

AA 763 D 174 RDU 18:30 6:55 LHR


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7246 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12585 times:

AA LHR:
BOS 2X daily 757s
DFW two daily 777s and I think they are adding a third soon
MIA two daily one 777 one 763 with a third 3x a week 763
ORD 3 daily 2x 763 1x 777
JFK 4 daily 777
RDU 1 daily 763
LAX 1 daily 777

So with that currently in February 15-16 flights a day. I may be missing some so please correct me. This is what their online timetable said for this week.

[Edited 2012-02-27 17:21:50]


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 710 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12583 times:

AA - no doubt.

On a random weekday in April (17APR):

10x JFK since the BA/IB codeshare is metal-neutral (AA has 3 of its own flights)
6x ORD (4 on AA metal)
4x DFW (3 on AA metal)
4x BOS (2 on AA metal)
4x LAX (One on AA metal)
4x MIA (One on AA metal)
1x RDU

That's 29 TATL flights, 15 of which are on AA to LHR alone, mostly 772 and a handful of 763s. I don't think the 752 goes to LHR anymore, either. Just MAN.

While AA only serves a small handful of destinations in Europe, it is still the largest carrier TATL, which I think is astonishing.


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6559 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12585 times:

Looking at that, I'm amazed MIA only has one flight !


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7246 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12539 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
4x MIA (One on AA metal)
Quoting flymia (Reply 4):
MIA two daily one 777 one 763 with a third 3x a week 763
Quoting B377 (Reply 3):
AA 777 D 56 MIA 18:35 8:10 LHR
Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 6):
Looking at that, I'm amazed MIA only has one flight !

As you can see MIA has many seasonal changes. During the winter AA has MIA 2X Daily with a third flight 3 times a week. BA also has 2 daily flights from MIA year round and is going to be adding a 3rd daily.

[Edited 2012-02-27 17:23:38]


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineB377 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12334 times:

Continuing with the code share flights with BA

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
That's 29 TATL flights, 15 of which are on AA to LHR alone, mostly 772 and a handful of 763s. I don't think the 752 goes to LHR anymore, either. Just MAN.


The BOS - LHR and JFK - MAN flights are 757's, Then you need to add in all the other AA/BA codeshares, IAD, BWI, ATL, IAH, PHX, LAS, SAN, SFO, SEA, and even YVR, YYC, YYZ, YUL. I know several of the locations have multiple flights, so the total now pushes 50. There's also AA/BA from MCO and TPA to LGW.


User currently offlineGSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12214 times:

From my calculations, UA has ~200 more daily seats to LHR than AA.....BUT....I did make some assumptions that could alter the actual count, as noted below. I looked at todays schedule on the LHR website. I was going to add BA numbers for comparison, but this took me long enough.


CO/UA:

EWR..........1X 777, 4X 757.............................952 Seats
IAD.............3X 777..........................................807 Seats
IAH.............2X 777..........................................552 Seats
ORD ...........3X 763..........................................549 Seats
LAX............2X 777..........................................538 Seats
SFO ..........1X 747...........................................374 Seats

3,772 Daily Seats
*Assuming IAH, EWR use ex. CO aircraft, UA 777’s are in new config. Let me know if you know the actual configurations they use.



AA:

JFK.............4X 777............................................988 Seats
ORD ...........1X 777, 2X 763...............................697 Seats
MIA.............1X 777, 1X 763, 3X Weekly 763.....568 (Average) Seats
DFW............2X 777............................................494 Seats
BOS........... 2X 757............................................364 Seats
LAX ............1X 777............................................247 Seats
RDU ............1X 763............................................225 Seats

3,583 Daily Seats
*Added the total weekly seats to MIA, averaged number of daily seats


DL:
JFK................3X 764..........................................738 Seats
ATL................1X 764..........................................246 Seats
DTW..............1X 764..........................................246 Seats
MSP ..............1X 764..........................................246 Seats
BOS ...............1X 764.........................................246 Seats
MIA................1X 764..........................................246 Seats

1,968 Daily Seats
*MIA is ending soon.


US
PHL.................1X A330........................................258 Seats

258 Daily Seats

Let me know if I made any mistakes or left anything out.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12191 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):

While AA only serves a small handful of destinations in Europe, it is still the largest carrier TATL, which I think is astonishing.

AA is actually the 3rd largest US airline by TATL traffic, hardly astonishing. AA is, however, the largest US airline to LHR.

Jeremy


User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12090 times:

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 9):
From my calculations, UA has ~200 more daily seats to LHR than AA.....BUT....I did make some assumptions that could alter the actual count, as noted below.

Great work GSPflyer.
I am sure that many will say it is not accurate for many reasons.

It shows that AA is not the slam-dunk leader that all think... case and point....

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 10):
AA is actually the 3rd largest US airline by TATL traffic, hardly astonishing. AA is, however, the largest US airline to LHR.

Can we get your facts that dispute GSPflyer's work.

We can't include any of the BA code-shares, even if they are metal-neutral or not. Metal neutrality means nothing to the traveling public. Alliance membership will drive traffic.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12040 times:

Quoting BACCALA (Thread starter):
DEN ?


DEN is nada here now.... nothing.... and UA claims a hub here eh? UA used to have a seasonal flight, but they then just took away the plane and decided it could make better $$$$$ playing elsewhere, even though supposedly the flight itself did well.


  



[Edited 2012-02-27 19:41:02]

User currently onlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4578 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12026 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 11):
We can't include any of the BA code-shares, even if they are metal-neutral or not. Metal neutrality means nothing to the traveling public.

Well, the way things have been so perverted in this industry over the past decade or two, I think that it actually is fair to include the BA flights, since passengers booking "AA flight 6501" are booking an American Airlines flight even though it's flown on and by BA. To disagree with this would mean you acknowledge that all those regionals flying around pretending to be part of the larger legacy that they are all painted up to look like are just that - other airlines pretending to be UA, CO, DL or US.


User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11903 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 11):

Can we get your facts that dispute GSPflyer's work.

I wasn't disputing GSPflyer's work, which only focused on LHR for today. During the summer, however, and for the full year, AA is larger than UA/CO. AA will have considerably more flights and seats than at present this summer, when demand is lower. This is independent of metal neutrality with JVs/ATI.

Jeremy


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11815 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 12):
DEN is nada here now.... nothing.... and UA claims a hub here eh? UA just took away the plane and decided it could make better $$$$$ elsewhere, even though supposedly the flight itself did well.

IIRC, competition with the BA flight was a primary factor why UA discontinued the route (combined with limited feed on the LHR end). Due to UA's numerous hubs at the time, most passengers could be easily re-routed via SFO, IAD, ORD, LAX.


User currently offlinebristolflyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11815 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 12):
DEN is nada here now.... nothing.... and UA claims a hub here eh? UA just took away the plane and decided it could make better $$$$$ elsewhere, even though supposedly the flight itself did well.


When did they stop the Denver flight? I booked DEN-LHR today for a summer trip, looked for UA/Continental flights but nothing. Speedbird it is.



Fortune favours the brave
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11795 times:

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 16):
When did they stop the Denver flight? I booked DEN-LHR today for a summer trip, looked for UA/Continental flights but nothing. Speedbird it is.

I'm not sure if it was last summer that was the last season for it, or the one before.....?? but nonetheless, my friend, if you want to go DEN-LHR nonstop, the only option now is BA.......

At least BA hasn't had any problems here for the last 10-12 years or so.... so see there UA!

 


User currently offlineB377 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11732 times:

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 9):
LAX............2X 777..........................................538 Seats

UA only operates 1X777 in the LAX-LHR market at the present time. In fact I do no remember them flying more than 1 for quite some time.


User currently offlineB377 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11697 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 6):
Looking at that, I'm amazed MIA only has one flight !

Due to the AA/BA JV, AA elected to drop the second frequency this summer in favor of BA operating three. This is why the JV is starting to really work. You can see in some of the previous postings about BA loads increasing dramatically at SAN, PHX and LAS.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11667 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):
IIRC, competition with the BA flight was a primary factor why UA discontinued the route (combined with limited feed on the LHR end). Due to UA's numerous hubs at the time, most passengers could be easily re-routed via SFO, IAD, ORD, LAX.

I wouldn't change planes in SFO or LAX to go from Denver to London, but that's me...... ORD or IAD maybe.....

Nonetheless, kind of sad (? for lack of a better word) that UA can't compete with BA at one of its primary hubs if that's the reason.

 


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11645 times:

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 5):
10x JFK since the BA/IB codeshare is metal-neutral (AA has 3 of its own flights)
6x ORD (4 on AA metal)
4x DFW (3 on AA metal)
4x BOS (2 on AA metal)
4x LAX (One on AA metal)
4x MIA (One on AA metal)
1x RDU

rule of thumb : if you can't use systemwide upgrade coupon, you can't count it for your own airline

"metal neutral" is just fancy feel-good accounting


User currently offlineGSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11568 times:

Quoting B377 (Reply 19):
UA only operates 1X777 in the LAX-LHR market at the present time. In fact I do no remember them flying more than 1 for quite some time.

Good Catch. Under LHR's timetable, it includes one stop flights, I accidentally counted one of these. This means only 269 seats to LAX daily. 3,503 seats total for CO/UA, so AA is larger by ~80 seats.

I would still like to hear from someone who knows what configurations UA uses to LHR, so I can get a more accurate calculation. As far as I can tell, DL and AA only operate one configuration of their aircraft they fly to LHR. LHR lists US as EQV (Equipment Varies), but all of the flights I could find are A332's, which they operate in a single configuration. Maybe an occasional A333 or 767 sub?


User currently offlinewhorsefield From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7641 times:

Quoting BACCALA (Thread starter):
IAD 3 flights all 767-300

IAD is infact 4 daily in the summer, 2x 763 and 2x 772, 3x 763 would be quite a downgauge!


User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 419 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7767 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 22):
rule of thumb : if you can't use systemwide upgrade coupon, you can't count it for your own airline

"metal neutral" is just fancy feel-good accounting

But can't you find something for each each of the major alliances to pick at? For example, I could say why fly an alliance whose main European partner doesn't offer fully lie flat J seats(LH, as opposed to BA and AF, who do)? What AA and BA are doing is smart enough- they know BA's product is generally better then AA's and until such time as AA catches up, they are offering a variety of flights and pushing lower-yielding traffic to AA flights.


Quoting point2point (Reply 21):
I wouldn't change planes in SFO or LAX to go from Denver to London, but that's me...... ORD or IAD maybe...

I wouldn't either, but if it saved $500 or more plenty of people would consider it.



Next
25 Post contains images point2point : I suppose that is a point to consider...... all other things being equal.......
26 atct : Okay im picking a random tuesday eastbound to do some checking June 12th, 2012 Schedules American Airlines: BOS AAL156 - Boeing 757-200 BOS AAL108 - B
27 mogandoCI : Can you use your AA eVIP's on BA ? Point being we're counting own metal flights, not double counting all the JV/JSA/ATI/metal-neutral ones. According
28 cofannyc : I don't know the exact seat counts since I rolled it up by carrier, but used their filed schedules (essentially using a tool that uses OAG data) and
29 BCEaglesCO757 : So it's AA 1st, UA/CO 2nd, and everybody else after that pretty much.
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