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FRA ATCs To Strike 29 Feb 2012  
User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 671 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3591 times:

It seems things are slowly getting out of control in the labor dispute at FRA. Apparently unhappy with the limited impact of the ramp agents' strike, the ATCs at FRA will strike from 5 am to 11 am on Wednesday out of solidarity with that group, meaning that little or nothing will move during that time at the airport:

http://www.stern.de/reise/service/ar...lotsen-zum-streik-auf-1792703.html

Expect major chaos Wednesday.


Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3563 times:
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Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Thread starter):

Oh boy, that will be interesting as I am supposed to land tomorrow morning at 5am in FRA. And due to the curfew we are not allowed to land earlier.

It's gonna be a mess during these hours I am sure.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9148 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3525 times:

With some luck they could lift the curfew and land whatever gets in befre 5 am. After all, it is not the airlines fault

However, I could imagine that the long distance flights are diverted to DUS/CGN/STR etc. if the strike takes place.

Just in the radio news LH is pondering to sue the union and DFS (ATC).



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3514 times:
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Quoting PanHAM (Reply 2):
With some luck they could lift the curfew and land whatever gets in befre 5 am. After all, it is not the airlines fault

I doubt it. But it is a possibility. But still difficult to let the airplanes depart earlier at their destination and then go full throttle to FRA just to arrive before 5am. Costs a lot of extra money for the extra fuel burn.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 2):
However, I could imagine that the long distance flights are diverted to DUS/CGN/STR etc. if the strike takes place.

Yes. Will be crowded there. Maybe MUC as well. As I am coming in from the US I guess I will end up in DUS or CGN.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 2):
Just in the radio news LH is pondering to sue the union and DFS (ATC).

Sure they do. It is getting very expensive and LH doesn't want to lose more money.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlinekeuleatr72 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3464 times:

wilco737, any word if LH would delay the departure of the flights that would arrive during the hours of the strike?

User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3458 times:
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Quoting keuleatr72 (Reply 4):
wilco737, any word if LH would delay the departure of the flights that would arrive during the hours of the strike?

Not yet. The information is quite new out, so I guess crew scheduling will check all options now before they actually do something. My aircraft I am supposed to fly to FRA hasn't even departed FRA yet, so they have still many hours to figure it out. At least 8 hours.
You never know what happens until then.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9148 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3250 times:

Lufthansa and Fraport went to court today to flight agaoinst that "solidarity strike" by the controllers. Just because the same mini union represents the strikers as well as the controllers they think that they can take people employed by company A (DFS) to sympathy strike for people employed by company B (Fraport) and damage company C (Lufthansa) the hardest.

That is something now few people really understand, high qualified employees strike to support low qualified personel?

What will happen eventually is that the marshallers will lose their jobs because they are simply not needed. Most, if not all stands, are meanwhile equipped with electronic gear helüping the pilot to park the aircraft at the gate. What's the job of the marshaller anyhow? Pilots have charts for each airport, they know where the stands are and there are systems available that leads an aircraft to the stand. OK, apron controllers would handle that, but for sure, the low qualified guys in the chequered vans will be dinosaurs from the day the new contract is signed.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13967 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3152 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
That is something now few people really understand, high qualified employees strike to support low qualified personel?

This is what the big unions would like to have: e.g. us licenced maintenance engineers go on strike to support the cleaners or loaders because we can ground whole fleets by refusing to work and are not easily replaceable..
It is one reason why I joined a small union, which only deals with licenced staff. We take care of our business. If the others would want to get our privileges, they should have better paid attention in school and get qualified.

Jan


User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3133 times:

Now this may sound like a stupid idea..

But what if the airlines got together and chipped into a fund that acts as a subsidy to Air Traffic employees who are threatening striking?

It's gotta be cheaper to throw $2 or 3m into a pot every year than to have to spend the resources in house to work around the constant impending strike.



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlines4popo From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

I hope they get fired!

User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2925 times:
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Many, many flight cancellations take place at the moment. Many short haul flights got cancelled and several long haul flights are cancelled as well for today and tomorrow.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13967 posts, RR: 63
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2878 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 6):
Lufthansa and Fraport went to court today to flight agaoinst that "solidarity strike" by the controllers. Just because the same mini union represents the strikers as well as the controllers they think that they can take people employed by company A (DFS) to sympathy strike for people employed by company B (Fraport) and damage company C (Lufthansa) the hardest.

Aren´t solidarity strikes illegal in Germany?

Jan


User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2875 times:
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Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 11):
Aren´t solidarity strikes illegal in Germany?

It is the same union. But I don't know if legal or not. Will be decided by the court tonight.

But flight got cancelled already and the harm is done.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlinetim171080 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2859 times:

wilco737, your flight is LH 423 I assume, it was cancelled as well. Have a nice day in BOS!

Many other flights will be delayed for 3-6 hours to arrive after 11am LT.

[Edited 2012-02-28 11:45:44]

User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2859 times:
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Quoting tim171080 (Reply 13):
wilco737, your flight is LH 423 I assume, it was cancelled as well. Have a nice day in BOS!

I know   Looks like I have 2 more days here as it seems the flight LH422 FRA-BOS tomorrow is cancelled as well according to LH website.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlinetim171080 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

any idea if those flights that were delayed or cancelled so far, but with equipment readily available at departure airport, will they fly as soon as the ArbG FRA issues the preliminary injunction (e.V.)?

That would mean taking back a publicly announced delay/cancellation of a flight, is that possible?


User currently offlineairportugal310 From Palau, joined Apr 2004, 3574 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2826 times:

Quoting tim171080 (Reply 13):
I know Looks like I have 2 more days here as it seems the flight LH422 FRA-BOS tomorrow is cancelled as well according to LH website.


Supposed to snow a little tomorrow...just when we were thinking we might escape for the season!  Smile

[Edited 2012-02-28 11:58:33]


I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2820 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Quoting tim171080 (Reply 15):
any idea if those flights that were delayed or cancelled so far, but with equipment readily available at departure airport, will they fly as soon as the ArbG FRA issues the preliminary injunction (e.V.)?

No, don't have any information which flights got cancelled. We have a 744 herein BOS, so we could depart anytime. Problem is: How to inform 324 passengers that the flight is not cancelled and will depart in 5 hours? You cannot do that. So you cancel, rebook the passengers and then at one point set a new departure date and time and then fly. Maybe even ferry back to FRA if all the passengers have been rebooked already.

Quoting tim171080 (Reply 15):
That would mean taking back a publicly announced delay/cancellation of a flight, is that possible?

It is possible. But I doubt it will be done.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9148 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2765 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 11):
Aren´t solidarity strikes illegal in Germany?

IMHO yes, Jan. But it seems not to be so easy, otherwise they would have the court order already.

That controllers union still has a law suit pending from last year when they announced but called off later a strike of the controllers. Both LH and AB have sued for approximately 1,5 million e each.

If the court tonight or tomorrow finds that the solidarity strike is illegal, the president of that club will have something to explain to his members. That could cost them dearly.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9148 posts, RR: 29
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2742 times:

...was just reading the news, the president of the controllers union as well as the union are fully liable for damages, if the court finds in a later ruling that the solidarity strike of the 12 controllers tomorrow is "disproportional".

How can someone get involved in such a stupid action and gamble his personal property for such a cause? As wilco said, the damage is done, even if they call the strike off now. The cancellations will last into Thursday

[Edited 2012-02-28 12:36:03]


E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinerjm777ual From UK - England, joined Nov 2011, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

Here's another link on the Lufthansa website

http://www.lufthansa.com/de/en/Travel-information



Greetings from Dulles!
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2707 times:
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Quoting rjm777ual (Reply 20):

It is quite a list of cancelled flights. Many long hauls and even more short hauls.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9148 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2682 times:

...and the court has ruled that the 12 air traffic controllers are not allowed to strike tomorrow.

The union will be presented a nice invoice for that, could well be in the double digits. If they are wise, they call off the other strike as wlel tomorrow, they lost and Fraport will not even sign the contract they had agreed on already.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinewilco737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8967 posts, RR: 76
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2675 times:
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Quoting PanHAM (Reply 22):
...and the court has ruled that the 12 air traffic controllers are not allowed to strike tomorrow.

Alright. Good news... My flight is cancelled anyway.

wilco737
  



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlinetim171080 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2645 times:

They should try to get out flights now asap, even if not all passengers are at the airport, for the sake of Network stability.

25 INNflyer : The court just deemed the ATC strike to be illegal about 30 min ago (http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/flughafenstreik120.html) I am glad since I fl
26 Post contains images aloges : Lovely, lovely, lovely... pseudo-privatise ATC and then have the courts forbid their strikes. Hooray!
27 rjm777ual : My flight to IAD is cancelled.....UA 777
28 PanHAM : Just in - the court ordered the union to cancell the main strike immediately and go back to work. That is for the marshallers, the sympathy strike was
29 PlaneInsomniac : Wow! Talk about an unexpected turn of events. Going from totally blocking FRA to no strike at all in less than a day...
30 Post contains images wilco737 : Looks like a bad day for them. So maybe the strike will be over very soon and ops can go back to normal. wilco737
31 PanHAM : Yes, looks like they had a bad hand of cards. If they lose the appeal as well that iunion is in for dire stratits, Lh will present the bill to them, T
32 PanHAM : The union will not appeal so we can look forward to a regular traffic flow by thursday evening, latest Friday. These union guys are real amateurs, the
33 Post contains images wilco737 : That's good. Doesn't sound too well prepared here. wilco737
34 Post contains links and images Stratofish : Hopefully a judge will tell them to present the bill to Fraport as they are the real culprits. The GdF union was willing to accept the mediation. I r
35 PanHAM : We will find that out, relax. This current law suit is dating back from strike actions last year, the bill for last weeks actions will follow, and th
36 Post contains images Stratofish : The follow-me car drivers a just a faction of the people we talk about. And those who manage the little space FRA has to park aircraft do need and ha
37 PanHAM : you are wrong about that, he is absolutely in line with his peers. The fact that the follow me drivers become obsolete (they are actually already osb
38 Post contains images aloges : Excellent! Now you should applaud the union for demanding no more than what their peers at MUC already get. [Edited 2012-03-02 06:15:14]
39 mmedford : You know; I don't think you're allowed to be making this much sense. When will the public learn you can't have it both ways..praise the individuals f
40 PanHAM : why should I? You cannot compare the guy who is responsible to run the place profitable, and exactly for that he gets his income, with unskilled work
41 Delboy : The ANA B787 flight diverted to Heathrow this morning. Was it because of the industrial action or was it for another reason?
42 mmedford : Now, how do you know these workers are unskilled? I know many people who have degrees in one field, but do something completely different and unrelat
43 LOWS : Heavy fog in FRA.
44 PanHAM : was mentioned svereal times already. No language skills needed, qualifiation is drivers licence and several courses taken over 2 years. I asked somew
45 mmedford : Just because that's their minimal requirements...doesn't mean the employees can't exceed them.
46 Semaex : So you're saying that if I make a Masters Degree in International Relations and work for a well-known American Restaurant because the United Nations
47 mmedford : I understand that; but read my posts quoting the user "PanHAM"...I'm calling him out on the point of that he is insulting people he doesn't know. We
48 Post contains images aloges : You were making the point that salaries which are in line with those of your peers are OK. Over the entire duration of this Schmierentheater, I've be
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