jayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1000 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 13820 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 3): Good news for ATL!!! I want them to start AMS flights too or maybe the other Asian SkyTeam partner will start AMS service (CZ)?
Isnt Malaysia Airlines starting their AMS service?
So, i guess the two major hubs will receive feeds from asian carriers! KE From ICN to ATL and MH from KUL to AMS!
Guess Delta's the winner?
mogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 13691 times:
Quoting globalflyer (Thread starter): According to airport officials as early as January, KE will begin A380 service from ICN to ATL. Great news for ATL!
globalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 803 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 13506 times:
KE loads have always been strong. Now with 10 weekly flights on the route. I do wonder if they will keep the 10 weekly when the 380 comes on board? Suppposedly AF are looking at ATL as well for 380 service.
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
CV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 989 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13433 times:
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 5): funny how DL could barely make ATL-ICN work, but KE is having a field day on the same route with the same feeds
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9073 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13151 times:
MH is no SkyTeam member and what I remember they are leaning more towards the Star Alliance. If they indeed will join the Star Alliance it makes little sense for them to send their A380 to AMS unless demand from AMS warrants the use of the A380. In this case I think the chances are bigger they will send it to FRA. My feeling says that MH will not be sending their A380 to AMS as planned before.
IrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1731 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12979 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 10): MH is no SkyTeam member and what I remember they are leaning more towards the Star Alliance. If they indeed will join the Star Alliance it makes little sense for them to send their A380 to AMS unless demand from AMS warrants the use of the A380. In this case I think the chances are bigger they will send it to FRA. My feeling says that MH will not be sending their A380 to AMS as planned before.
Actually, MH is expected to join OneWorld.
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 5): funny how DL could barely make ATL-ICN work, but KE is having a field day on the same route with the same feeds
The DL route from ATL to ICN did ok in better economic times, but then became a casualty of the economic recession and was cancelled/suspended in 2009.
From what I remember, DL initially intended to route some Asia-bound traffic beyond ICN on KE metal, but that became less relevant when they merged with NW to gain the NRT hub. DL could only share revenues on the ATLICN flight, but not anywhere beyond that if the flight was on KE metal. Whereas routing Asia-bound pax over NRT allowed Delta to continue to earn revenues on ex-NRT flights to points within Asia because they are flown on DL metal as part of the merger acquisitions.
This is partly one of the reasons why I think Delta's Asia network out of ATL has been unsuccessful. The other, I believe, is that DTW is much better suited to capture traffic, geographically, from various points within the US (Midwest and Eastern Seaboard) and route them directly to Asia.
Meanwhile, the success of KE's 10x weekly service into ATL is simply attributed due to the hub-to-hub factor, but ultimately I can understand why having a DL ULH aircraft competing alongside a KE flight is somewhat moot.
srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12857 times:
Quoting drerx7 (Reply 1):
This is old news, but thanks for the rehash - Glad to see my home airport IAH will get the 380 before ATL.
The article is from today's AJC, so it's hardly "old news" or a "rehash". While it has been previously mentioned that KE (as well as AF) were looking at flying the A380 into ATL and the airport was going to make the necessary upgrades, there was never any clear date from either airline in regards to when they would put the type into ATL.
Quoting globalflyer (Reply 7):
KE loads have always been strong. Now with 10 weekly flights on the route. I do wonder if they will keep the 10 weekly when the 380 comes on board? Suppposedly AF are looking at ATL as well for 380 service.
I wouldn't be surprised if they maintain their current frequencies. One thing to remember is that KE has their A380s in a 407 passenger layout (12 first class, 94 business, 301 economy) and isn't a huge leap in capacity for them compared to the 777s and 744s they currently operate on the route. More than likely, the A380s will replace the 744s that are currently used on the route and the 777 flights on the route will remain.
DLdiamondboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12480 times:
DTW does well for Asian traffic because all the US based automakers have Molding/Tooling Engineers building thosands of cheap injection mold in Shenzhen, Dongguan etc. every year. ICN, HKG are good jumping off points to get into the mainland.
B2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 680 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12368 times:
Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 11): DL could only share revenues on the ATLICN flight, but not anywhere beyond that if the flight was on KE metal.
Wouldn't the reverse be true, as anything out of ATL wouldn't be on KE metal, thus no revenue for KE?
For example, DL earns revenue on ex ATL+ ATLICN on DL metal, KE earns revenue on ex ICN + ICNATL on KE metal. Unless the feeds at ATL and ICN are do different, I don't understand why DL's ATLICN did not work, whereas KE's running 10/week.
mcogator From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 96 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12116 times:
When does the new international terminal at ATL open? Are any of the other terminals capable of handling an A380 at the current moment?
IrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1731 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11929 times:
Quoting B2443 (Reply 15): Wouldn't the reverse be true, as anything out of ATL wouldn't be on KE metal, thus no revenue for KE?
For example, DL earns revenue on ex ATL+ ATLICN on DL metal, KE earns revenue on ex ICN + ICNATL on KE metal. Unless the feeds at ATL and ICN are do different, I don't understand why DL's ATLICN did not work, whereas KE's running 10/week.
Because KE has all of their long-haul ops consolidated in a single location - at Incheon. Conversely, Delta has to spread its long-haul operations across several hubs/gateways (whether it be NRT, ATL, DTW, MSP or JFK) and as such, there is a greater "squeeze" on how to best allocate their resources in markets where revenue potential is greater.
Hence, data points show that the 77L used on this route obviously generates higher premiums flying a route like say, DTWHKG, rather than be placed on a segment such as ATLICN which is redundant alongside the pre-existing KE flight. It is even more futile given the revenue-sharing agreement between the two carriers. If KE has the aircraft with a cabin configuration best suited to optimize their revenue needs as well as DL's, why should Delta place their metal on it as well?
And, as I mentioned above, the patterns indicate that ATL-Asia traffic can be routed via NRT or DTW, for that matter, and accomplish the same objectives.
cmf From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 2479 posts, RR: 35 Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11641 times:
Am I the only person remembering all the statements that Atlanta will never see an A380? Just shows how even the most certain things change.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
luckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1585 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11560 times:
Quoting mcogator (Reply 16): Are any of the other terminals capable of handling an A380 at the current moment?
Gate E3 has been/is being modified to handle the A380. I doubt the A380 will be handled on F.
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 5): funny how DL could barely make ATL-ICN work, but KE is having a field day on the same route with the same feeds
There is also substantial South Korean investment and interests in the Atlanta area. Kia has a very large manufacturing facility just south of the city for example, and Atlanta has a decent immigrant Korean population. The businesses most likely have contracted interests with KE which generates enough premium traffic to make the route work well.
Gunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3462 posts, RR: 11 Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11503 times:
Quoting cmf (Reply 18): Am I the only person remembering all the statements that Atlanta will never see an A380? Just shows how even the most certain things change.
As I recall, those statements were based on sources from years ago when ATL planners said they weren't planning on making upgrades for the A380--I don't think anyone ever said ATL wouldn't see the A380 because it was "too much plane" or anything like that. Obviously, this will be a winner for KE. Anyone know if ATL does indeed have to make some upgrades to infrastructure before this begins?
mcogator From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 96 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11337 times:
Quoting luckyone (Reply 19): There is also substantial South Korean investment and interests in the Atlanta area. Kia has a very large manufacturing facility just south of the city for example
And Hyundai has a $1.1 billion assembly plant in Montgomery, Alabama, which assembles the Sonata and the Santa Fe. Hankook tires also has a US base in Suwanee, GA.
vincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11256 times:
When is KE getting 7th A380? With the 6th frame joining toward the end of year, the only additional service will be 3 weekly ICN-ATL without taking current A380 services away. So perhaps 3X in the beginning, and then daily once 7th frame arrives. Guess we'll need to wait until official announcement from KE, everyone else is speculating at this point.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31117 posts, RR: 74 Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11236 times:
Atlanta-Seoul is a very large local market, nearly 4x larger than Atlanta-Tokyo and the largest local market between the South, Texas included, and any point in Asia (Middle East excluded).
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6517 posts, RR: 11 Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11014 times:
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 5): funny how DL could barely make ATL-ICN work, but KE is having a field day on the same route with the same feeds
If KE was not on the route already, the DL flight would have been fine long term. The traffic was being cannibalized on both carriers with the extra flight and when it fell to 4x weekly it made no sense to continue the route when there were daily options on Korean.
Quoting mcogator (Reply 16): When does the new international terminal at ATL open?
Was tentative for late April (never heard an official date in the month) but is currently stalled due to politics of all things. The issue right now are the vendors. HUGE fight to get on F at the moment.
Quoting mcogator (Reply 16): Are any of the other terminals capable of handling an A380 at the current moment?
No but KE will actually continue to operate out of E with the 380 and the spacing on F will allow one more but i'm not positive on the gate number.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
25 dlramp4life: But I thought all international arrivals going into ATL will be going through F....
26 FlyASAGuy2005: No. E and F will handle *most* international arrivals and departures (in theory). Both will be connected by the underground Plane Train. F only has 1
27 penguins: Great news for ATL!!! Yet, if they keep 10x weekly, operating costs will skyrocket with the A380.
28 DLdiamondboy: I fly to Asia 5-6 times a year on average. 2009/2010 I was making 2 trips per month ATL-PVG, ATL-ICN etc. KE business class fares are always between
31 WingedMigrator: Heh... is this the same Atlanta that said in 2005 they would never accept an A380? Atlanta Airport Boss: No A380 Here (by N328KF Feb 1 2005 in Civil A
32 luckyone: All ATL final destination passengers will exit the airport through F. It will still be connected to the rest of the airport, and the majority of flig
33 FlyASAGuy2005: New mgmt team at the reigns for quite a while now. They seem more imaginative and not caught up with all the crap that had been going on at H-Jack. L
34 laca773: How is this old news? I don't remember seeing anything about it before in any SkyTeam News or from DL etc., and I have a lot of miles with Sky Team,
36 IrishAyes: I obviously don't have info/access to average fares, but what I do know is that both of these routes bled money for DL, so they got they axe. I think
37 gigneil: Actually, ALL international arrivals will still be handled at E. According to wikipedia. Which is what it is. NS
38 A388: Thanks for the corrections. I wasn't aware of this. In any case, they are not a potential SkyTeam member as others previously thaught. A388
39 mogandoCI: If your flights were paid by the company, go for the miles. If they're out of your pocket, that's rather significant savings to justify forgoing the
40 bmacleod: Being the world's busiest hub, can't really understand why they would not accept the A380?
41 GSPSPOT: Glad to see scheduled A380's will be landing in the Southeast US!
43 MAV88: What is the largest market between the South (including Texas) and all of Asia (including the ME)
44 mcogator: I know you're waiting for MAH4546 to answer you, but seeing how I can't imagine a route busier than Atlanta-Seoul, if it is 4x the market of Atlanta-
45 Cubsrule: Ugg. Bag claim on E is no fun at all with 777s now.
46 MAV88: I was hoping anyone would answer. I am sure is MIA/FLL-TLV was so large, a carrier would be on it.
47 HeeseokKoo: AFAIK, 7th and 8th will be delivered 2013 (don't have any detailed info), after 6th at the end of this year. When KE introduced 77W a few years back,
48 MAH4546: It's is Miami-Tel Aviv. Unfortunately, AA has legal issues preventing it from flying to Tel Aviv, while Israel's category II rating band El Al from f
49 MAV88: Are there any significant business ties between Israel and South Florida? How come LY is able to fly TLV-LAX, TLV-EWR and TLV-JFK but not TLV-MIA? Di
50 MAH4546: Yes, obviously there are significant business ties between Israel and Miami, especially in pharmaceuticals and real estate., with companies like IVAX
51 DTWLAX: Being an American carrier, you would expect the DL cabin crew to be fluent in English.... no rocket science here! Regarding a safer operational recor
52 vincewy: I certainly hope so (I'll not hesitate to book KE for my next trip). It's clear by now that once they have fleet of 10, the A380 routes will look lik
53 ZK-NBT: I would have thought ICN-LHR and ICN-CDG aswell myself! Maybe only 1 LAX and 1 JFK. I would think KE will pick up a few more A380s at some point.
54 jporterfi: If KE kept 10x weekly, what makes you think the A380s wouldn't fill up (which would make them worthwhile and profitable)? Also, do you know the curre
55 LJ: According to the schedules it's all 77W at present, though the 772 is scheduled on KE033/4 for S12 until late August.
56 DLDiamondboy: Simple math. ( # of hull loss accidents/ # of flights) In the case of DL versus KE the numerator is smaller and the denominator much larger thus the
57 DTWLAX: I think you did not read my post completely: So since 1999 there has been no incident involving KE where the safety has improved tremendously and amo
58 lightsaber: What plane is KE flying to ATL today? If it is 10X week on the 77W, than 7X/week A380 provides 98% of the seats of their 77W(K) configuration and thus
59 DLDiamondboy: I did read your post. Pick any time period you want DL will always have a safer operational record: 1. Number of flights per day. DL has far more fli
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