acidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1855 posts, RR: 10 Posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8493 times:
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Not sure if this has already been discussed here but...
Delta eliminating more jobs at MSP Airport Minneapolis / St. Paul Business Journal by Ed Stych, Web Producer
Date: Wednesday, February 29, 2012, 11:48am CST
Delta Air Lines Inc. said Wednesday it is closing a warehouse at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, eliminating 66 jobs in the Twin Cities.
The warehouse will close May 16, with its operations being consolidated with similar facility in Atlanta, Delta said in a memo to employees. Delta said it was making the move to improve its efficiency and productivity.
News reports earlier in February had hinted at the cuts; according to an internal memo, Delta was considering cutting as many as 150 jobs.
66 more jobs to leave Minnesota. I guess it was inevitable. I would think this would slow down the procurement of parts for broken aircraft (especially in a hub!) but it seems like all of the other airlines consolidate their parts stores into very few or even one location like DL is trying to do here anyways. It must work somehow.
When someone puts the words "Delta", "jobs" and "MSP" into a paragraph it starts a very "lively" discussion. There is always a lot of debate here about "DL is dismantling MSP piece-by-piece" vs. "DL would be foolish to get rid of MSP - it is one of their biggest and most profitable hubs!" Discuss.
peanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1307 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8406 times:
As a company, you simply have to look at efficiencies. From multiple angles. If you can't control oil, you can control other things. If this involves shipping some families from MN to GA, so be it.
Shrinking is eagerly seen, by media and employees, in a negative light. Maybe shrinking also keeps the majority of the employees employed long term. It keeps the company healthy. Most folks don't consider that.
It's DL's duty to cut the waste.
If operating a hub from MSP makes money, it would have ZERO to do with a warehouse and vice versa.
DL will keep operating a hub at MSP for as long as the MN O&D passengers appreciate it and are willing to pay for it.
If the money is there, it will stay.
Let's not put MSP on the MEM and CVG pile please. Apples and oranges.
DL paid off a hefty sum of money to shut the MN officials up. Shut up is all they can...
Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
TOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6172 posts, RR: 9 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8369 times:
Does DL have any corporate offices at MSP anymore or is it all ATL?
"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7411 posts, RR: 9 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8221 times:
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 2): Does DL have any corporate offices at MSP anymore or is it all ATL?
We have offices at Building C (Attached to the hangers), and Building J (which is in Eagan). Building N (traning center) is closing soon.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2291 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8158 times:
Quoting acidradio (Thread starter): There is always a lot of debate here about "DL is dismantling MSP piece-by-piece"
This is what airline mergers do. Many people always cheer when UA and CO merger, or FL + WN or even at the prospect of DL + AS. And the executives promise they'll keep all the hubs. That's until the day after the merger, of course.
Mergers benefit the executives, maybe some short-term shareholders, maybe some lawyers and investment bankers on Wall Street, and little else IMHO. Certainly not the consumers, communities or most employees.
peanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1307 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8066 times:
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4): Certainly not the consumers, communities or most employees.
Most employees benefit, I'd say. A few don't.
Most consumers benefit.
The only reason communities don't benefit is they were marginal to begin with. The economics of running an airline have changed, over the last 30 years. TWA and PanAm and Eastern became the first extinct ones because of it.
Mergers became necessary because airlines also had a difficult time growing all alone in the environment they operated in and to keep costs contained. We can complain about communities all we want. What came first, the chicken or the egg? Some communities would have lost without mergers. We just never know now, will we?
Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2291 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 7993 times:
sunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1930 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7958 times:
I see all the NWA/RCA buildings at MSP closing in the next few years. "C" World will end up being sold off to a company like AAR or maybe Sun Country will take it over from M.A.C. and put their world headquarters there. (tough in cheek)
It's basically hit or miss, mergers in general. I just like the positive angle of it and the positive outcomes it has generated for many companies and jobs and communities. There is a dark side to anything in life though.
Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
BD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 595 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7948 times:
I don't see this in anyway related to any dismantling of a MSP hub, DL has a big loyal FF following in MSP and by all accounts the hub is very profitable (should be at some of the fares they charge!) but this is more of DL cramming as much infrastructure into ATL as they can. It might be more efficient on the accountants spreadsheet but I wonder how the risk managers looked at this from 'all eggs in one basket' angle. There seems to be an ongoing reduction in diversification of resource locations and lack of 'back up' sites in case of a serious business interruption at ATL. I guess it was looked at but the spreadsheet outweighed the risks.
peanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1307 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7843 times:
Quoting BD338 (Reply 9): It might be more efficient on the accountants spreadsheet but I wonder how the risk managers looked at this from 'all eggs in one basket' angle. There seems to be an ongoing reduction in diversification of resource locations and lack of 'back up' sites in case of a serious business interruption at ATL.
Very fair points.
I think DL is also, as a side benefit to all this rightsizing, attempting to redefine and emphasize the DL Culture. Some of this will accomplish that. It eliminates lingering resentment (if there is any) and brings in ATL "outsiders" into the fold.
Also, a UNITED and FOCUSED Delta is good for SkyTeam. AF is gonna have to be "dealt with" at some point. A strong centralized DL will only benefit SkyTeam when painful discussions come about.
[Edited 2012-02-29 13:12:25]
Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
Dalmd88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2365 posts, RR: 15 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7690 times:
Closing the wharehouse makes complete sence. We do most of the aircraft work in ATL so most of the parts should be in ATL. There will still be a Line store room in MSP but most of the parts will be in ATL. It really amazes us in the ATL hangar the times we are told we are out of stock on a part that only gets used on a C check, but they have a bunch sitting on a shelf in MSP. This move will in no way impact the hub operation, but will help the hangar checks in ATL.
rwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2142 posts, RR: 7 Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7569 times:
[quote=peanuts,reply=10]AF is gonna have to be "dealt with" at some point. A strong centralized DL will only benefit SkyTeam when painful discussions come about.[/quote ]Please explain.
The early bird gets the worm, BUT...the second mouse gets the cheese!
sxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1225 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7524 times:
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6): How? Reduction in service in many markets and higher fares. I disagree.
If there was no merger, consumers might benefit in the short term from having more service and lower fares. However, once one of the carriers went bankrupt or exited the market because of overcapacity, consumers would probably be worse off.
Consumers, communities, and employees ultimately benefit from having financially viable airlines that can afford to pay their bills and invest in making existing service more viable with new aircraft and other infrastructure.
MSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1565 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7411 times:
Can someone answer the question of the jobs left at MSP besides the daily flight operations? I see maintenance and a few offices are left. Anything else? Thanks.
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6512 posts, RR: 11 Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7258 times:
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 14): Can someone answer the question of the jobs left at MSP besides the daily flight operations? I see maintenance and a few offices are left. Anything else? Thanks.
Mostly IT and admin stuff to which they are actually hiring for right now.
Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 11): Closing the wharehouse makes complete sence. We do most of the aircraft work in ATL so most of the parts should be in ATL. There will still be a Line store room in MSP but most of the parts will be in ATL. It really amazes us in the ATL hangar the times we are told we are out of stock on a part that only gets used on a C check, but they have a bunch sitting on a shelf in MSP. This move will in no way impact the hub operation, but will help the hangar checks in ATL.
Unfortunately, only those actively involved in the likes of MTC and stores will understand. As it is, Atlanta has one expeditor if i'm not mistaken and he's spoken to me time and time again about how the full kitten is a mess for the overnight work in ATL due in large part to most of the Red Tail stuff still being stored in Minneapolis. I think folks are not realizing that the front desk stores department at the hanger will remain in tact and this move will not affect overnight work up there or the MRO contracts.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
KarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2925 posts, RR: 9 Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7259 times:
airbuske From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 463 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7036 times:
burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7411 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6675 times:
Quoting airbuske (Reply 17):
If you mean offices without any people in them, then yes! Bldg C is already ghost town. The tower will be completely vacant in the next week or so.
There are still quite a few people in Sales in the MSP Building C office.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
burnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7411 posts, RR: 9 Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6644 times:
Quoting Dalmd88 (Reply 11): Closing the wharehouse makes complete sence. We do most of the aircraft work in ATL so most of the parts should be in ATL. There will still be a Line store room in MSP but most of the parts will be in ATL. It really amazes us in the ATL hangar the times we are told we are out of stock on a part that only gets used on a C check, but they have a bunch sitting on a shelf in MSP. This move will in no way impact the hub operation, but will help the hangar checks in ATL.
I slightly disagree with you on this one, with the MRO work that is now also being done in MSP, they should be working to grow those facilities to relieve some of the ATL work, not everything has to be done in Atlanta, I don't know why we continue to think that it does. Secondly, as far as being out of stock on parts, that's more or a poor planning/parts management. I think Delta could have leveraged MSP to make more money expanding facilities to in source rather than bring everything to Atlanta.
"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6512 posts, RR: 11 Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6540 times:
Its not quite that simple Chris. I was on the Tech Ops side before I moved to where I'm at now and I can tell you that the other stations pretty much rape the warehouse in Atlanta and that's why they have to source for certain parts out of DTW, MSP, JFK, etc etc. As to growing MRO. That's has nothing to do with stores closing. The fact of the matter is that ATL sees far more RONs than MSP does and that's why most of the in-house work is done there. Concourse C would usually have 1, maybe 2 a/c. D would have a couple. F usually has the a/c coming from LAX, LAS, DTW, and 2034. G will have a few and the rest is parked out by the hanger adjacent to G (the lone 76Q parks right in front the hanger by the de-ice fill station).
Bottom line is its business as usual and I do see DL leveragin MSP for future MRO work as ATL is pretty much out of floor space with all the NA stuff they regularly get along with the Navy C-40s and whatever else they get on a weekly basis.
Just a side note but Tony Charaf stepped down from the President position at Tech Ops to take on the role of MRO Chief. He said his life goal at DL moving forward will be to grow the business from $500M to a $1B. Lots of things happening in the near future including MSP just keep your ear to the ground
[Edited 2012-02-29 20:24:21]
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
jporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 358 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5495 times:
DL should keep MSP up and running if they are making money by having it as a hub I find it curious that DL (and NW before them) has been able to keep hubs at both MSP and DTW, given their proximity. But if it works, it's more convenient for the traveling public, so I say keep MSP as long as it's profitable!
nwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3324 posts, RR: 9 Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4789 times:
Quoting airbuske (Reply 17): The tower will be completely vacant in the next week or so.
What?!
As for the stock clerks losing their jobs, they have 4 choices:
*Move to ATL
*Apply for an open position on the system (maybe MSP, maybe not)
*Take the severance/early out
*Take the layoff
So much for "no frontline jobs lost as a result of the merger."
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
Lol. It was kind of meant tongue-in-cheek.
There is a bit of validity to my statement in that the french are not always easy partners to work with. DL is way more ambitious, efficient and business minded as compared to AF. It has led to "disagreements". Let's leave it at that
A cohesive DL, as one front, will have a lot of leverage during SkyTeam meetings. DL is becoming more and more a well oiled machine (still lots of things to be done though). AF and KL...what can I say? The fact we are dealing with 2 headquarters should tell you something...
Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5974 posts, RR: 9 Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4697 times:
Quoting nwaesc (Reply 22): So much for "no frontline jobs lost as a result of the merger."
I don't beleve that stock clerks are fronline employees
25 nwaesc: Fair enough; once again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I just think the "family" can do better by these guys...
26 bobnwa: [quote=nwaesc,reply=25]Fair enough; once again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I just think the "family" can do better by these guys... What is your
27 TOMMY767: MSP is one of DL's most reported profitable hubs.
28 FlyASAGuy2005: All 66 employees will have the opprotunity to relocate, or if they don't want to, I've been told by the Ramp GM that Atlanta will create ramp and gat
29 nwaesc: Of course it is! Lol. Seriously, my definition would be any scale employee that works at an ATO. Create jobs for them where? In ATL or MSP? If it's t
30 FlyASAGuy2005: MSP. And that was more of a tongue in cheeeck comment my bad. Reasoning too was that if I'm not mistaken stores guys start out at a higher rate than t
31 msp747: Which building is this? Is it the one that is all by itself near the entrance to the airport? If it is, isn't this hangar supposed to be torn down whe
32 bobnwa: Would that include managers? Not quite sure what a scale employee is.
33 nwaesc: tongue in cheek or not, I think that would be the best result all around. We've been hearing that too... Same with DTW, for that matter... Paid hourl
34 DCA-ROCguy: History suggests that legacy carriers in particular aren't to be uncritically trusted when they say that mergers are necessary to be "financially via
35 burnsie28: I think your missing the quoted text that would help answer the question.
36 FlyASAGuy2005: Anyone that earns an hourly wage although DL figures this into a monthly flat rate for all depending on how many years you have. You get a raise ever
37 nwaesc: I get your point, but except for the pilots & dispatchers, we're *all* at-will employees now...
38 sxf24: If there's not overcapacity in the industry, why has it taken several rounds of mergers, and sharp reductions in domestic capacity, to get fares to a
39 DCA-ROCguy: Bad management. It's up to managements to right-size capacity and markets. The fact is, free people make free choices. Competition does not lead inex
40 sxf24: How has power been abused? If airline's are gouging or taking advantage of consumers, why aren't they more profitable?
41 DCA-ROCguy: In the 90's, they were. In places they can get away with it, they still do. Unfortunately, in the past few years, oil has run ahead of their ability
42 peanuts: Well, you are treading on very thin ice here with some of your statements. Obviously, many factors are at play here. Let me just mention a simple one
43 aa777lvr: NWAESC- Another possibility is the company creating 66 "ops" positions where they can plop them behind company computers, arm them with internet fire
44 Cubsrule: MSP and DTW are about as far apart as DTW and ATL (and IAD and ORD, and CLT and PHL). What do you mean?
45 nwaesc: Cute. The post you quoted wasn't a "jab," and the desk it was written on happens to be my kitchen table. I haven't been to work in awhile, but you wo
46 DCA-ROCguy: The statement you quoted is not 'simplistic.' Competition indeed does not inexorably lead to 'irrational' competition, which presumably is the idea t
47 jporterfi: Sorry, I think I mixed up the position of Minnesota and Wisconsin.
48 delta2ual: I've often wondered this too. With ATL becoming more and more the center of the DL universe (I know it has always been to some degree) God forbid a t
49 michman: Note that this "quote" was actually made up . Here's the real quote -- "The company also expects no involuntary furloughs of frontline employees as a
50 nwaesc: Depends on how you look at it. Many on here contend as you do, I disagree. It was "made up," only that they're my words (paraphrasing), and not a cut
51 sunking737: Jobs are lost in the State of Minnesota. Lost Tax Revenue, means less income to the State of Minnesota. The more people working in any State means mo
52 FlyASAGuy2005: This could happen at ay hub so what's your point exactly as it relates to DL? What if a tornado tears up EWR or IAH or MIA or DFW.. Get back to me wh
53 delta2ual: My point is, ATL is twice the size of DL's next largest hub. It seems like UA and AA have a little more "breathing" room as their hubs are similar in
54 peanuts: I'm afraid, in an effort to convey your point of view, you have your words mixed up a bit. I never used the word "simplistic". Simplistic is negative
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From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1855 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1307 posts, 
Unfortunately, only those actively involved in the likes of MTC and stores will understand. As it is, Atlanta has one expeditor if i'm not mistaken and he's spoken to me time and time again about how the full kitten is a mess for the overnight work in ATL due in large part to most of the Red Tail stuff still being stored in Minneapolis. I think folks are not realizing that the front desk stores department at the hanger will remain in tact and this move will not affect overnight work up there or the MRO contracts.
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