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DL Suspends MEM-AMS  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16322 times:

Another step in the dismantling. They say it will be seasonal...for now.

http://www.memphisdailynews.com/news...a-makes-amsterdam-flight-seasonal/

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16229 times:

Sad. I flew that route a few times when living in AL. MD11s back in the day!

But if you cut off a lot of the feed then the long haul is going to suffer and especially so in the low demand winter months. Skeptical it will ever return despite what DL say.


User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16124 times:

Makes sense.

Boy, DL is just making all the right moves lately. They definitely are living in realville, not in ostriche lalaland.

This hurts the Memphis economy a bit, no doubt.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2997 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 16125 times:

No surprise, unfortunately, but I was hoping the route would survive.

Maybe they will bring it back for the summer season each year. Does anyone know how the route performed this past Summer?

Is CVG-CDG safe?

On the positive note, it looks like PDX-AMS is thriving and safe, which has also been questioned on A.net in the past.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 15851 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):
Is CVG-CDG safe?

There's PIT and the subsidy ended I think.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4537 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 15760 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
They say it will be seasonal...for now.

I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that seasonal in this case means it will never come back. It will go as seasonal in September and never return to service in 2013. Losing the route as it is being done now is a slightly softer blow.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9511 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15435 times:

Quoting BD338 (Reply 1):
Sad. I flew that route a few times when living in AL. MD11s back in the day!

I thought it was a DC10, then A333 then A332 then 767.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2997 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15336 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
Quoting BD338 (Reply 1):
Sad. I flew that route a few times when living in AL. MD11s back in the day!

I thought it was a DC10, then A333 then A332 then 767.

It was a KLM MD11 at one time. Recall that back in pre-dismantling days KL flew into MEM (and MSP too) and AF flew into CVG.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2741 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15167 times:

I guess, obviously, whether or not it returns will depend on what DL really has in mind for MEM. If in the busy season (summer) DL increases or even adds other domestic flights to MEM during this season, then connections will certainly be more available, and this AMS flight may have a chance to return. However, if there continues to be other cutbacks from MEM, and they continue into the summer season, then I don't think that the flight really has any chance on the O&D here alone.

We'll see, and other DL increases/adds to MEM will be good, but if there are cuts, then it will be a sayounara to MEM-AMS.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15089 times:

Oy. Painful news for the people in Memphis.

So will the suspension occur after this summer?

I'm nervously awaiting for DL-KL to announce that DFWAMS will also not be returning....



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14976 times:

That wasn't hard to see coming. I'll be shocked if it returns. Sad to see for MEM. I imagine it was their most prestigious route by far.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7535 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14853 times:

Sometimes I wonder about the timing of all this:

- DL decides it will end MIA-LHR on a 45 day notice
- DL decides that MEM-AMS will go seasonal on a 6 month notice

There is no normal, but 6 months out is rather far out as of late when it has typically been in the 2-3 month timeframe.

45 days is also very short notice for an international route.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14574 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 8):
I guess, obviously, whether or not it returns will depend on what DL really has in mind for MEM.



Nothing against Memphis but my PERSONAL feelings is that at some point down the road it will be shuttered to nothing more that a large spoke to the likes of RDU/DCA/IND/STL etc etc etc. Honestly, i'd much rather see the mainline a/c being used through MSP and DTW to free up the large RJs for other flying to the likes of JFK and LGA if future expansion out there is warranted.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinenwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3383 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 days ago) and read 14413 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):
I thought it was a DC10, then A333 then A332 then 767.
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 7):
It was a KLM MD11 at one time.

^Yep^

Not sure how long KL ran it, but it was definitely them flying in in the late '98- mid '99 time frame...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6586 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14058 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):
Sometimes I wonder about the timing of all this:

- DL decides it will end MIA-LHR on a 45 day notice
- DL decides that MEM-AMS will go seasonal on a 6 month notice

My guess is that MEM-AMS is part of a larger pull down coming this fall in MEM.


User currently offlinekpitrrat From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14023 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
There's PIT and the subsidy ended I think.

Not sure about the subsidy but I think it went seasonal as well.


User currently offlinepenguins From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 282 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13970 times:

Well, all I can say was, the day was bound to come.

User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3256 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13294 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):

Sometimes I wonder about the timing of all this:

- DL decides it will end MIA-LHR on a 45 day notice
- DL decides that MEM-AMS will go seasonal on a 6 month notice

There is no normal, but 6 months out is rather far out as of late when it has typically been in the 2-3 month timeframe.

45 days is also very short notice for an international route.

One word...FUEL.

I was told be a senior planner at another legacy carrier last week that they were going to be loading a significant capacity reduction for the rest of the year and no one yet sees it coming.


User currently offlineN782NC From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13292 times:

Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 15):
Not sure about the subsidy but I think it went seasonal as well.

Yep, the subsidy ended last year and if I remember correctly, it's 5/week summer seasonal.

Regarding MEM. Sorry to see this route go, but seriously, who didn't see this coming?

[Edited 2012-02-29 17:33:10]


Stairway to Seven
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 13251 times:

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 17):
I was told be a senior planner at another legacy carrier last week that they were going to be loading a significant capacity reduction for the rest of the year and no one yet sees it coming.

Then I think that planner is on the right track. I don't like how these fuel trends are going. Airlines will have to act soon if they want to stay ahead of it.


User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12674 times:

I flew this route only once, but I did prefer changing planes in MEM over ATL. I think part of the problem is that DL drawing down so much in MEM in general. Remember, it was basically a hub for NW. DL has made MEM and CVG both a RJ haven. Most larger flow traffic is routed via ATL or DTW.

I could see RDU being given this route if the build up there continues.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 750 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12629 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):
Is CVG-CDG safe?

I would think that route has a much greater chance of sticking around. Cincinnati in general seems to have many more large global companies than Memphis does.



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 827 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 12373 times:

Quoting nwaesc (Reply 13):
Not sure how long KL ran it, but it was definitely them flying in in the late '98- mid '99 time frame...

and 2001-2002 too. Maybe even up to 2003. I remember at least 2 flights on KL.



The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11926 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 20):

I could see RDU being given this route if the build up there continues.

This guy gets it   



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineJohnJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1656 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11617 times:

I was lucky enough to capture most of the various aircraft scheduled on the MEM-AMS route. Unfortunately, the KLM service came in pre-consumer grade DSLR days (I wasn't shooting slides at the time) but I did get the KLM MD-11. I missed the KLM 767, but by the time Northwest rolled onto the route the DSLR age had dawned and I have A.net photos of all the Northwest and Delta planes used MEM-AMS. Here's a couple from the good old days of Fuji ISO 400 print film:

http://airshots.homestead.com/files/klm1.jpg

http://airshots.homestead.com/files/klm2.jpg



[Edited 2012-02-29 19:57:11]

25 YULWinterSkies : I think PIT and DFW are two very different situations from MEM as these are o&d cities on the US side while MEM is a hub (and thus the route is m
26 Post contains images slcdeltarumd11 : Sadly no shock here. The feed is getting slowly cut and shrunk. Sad to see it go but i think we all saw this coming personally i see EWR-MEM cut as a
27 jporterfi : I had to think twice about this before I realized that AMS is a Delta hub. I initially though it strange that DL is operating an international flight
28 usdcaguy : The MEM-AMS winter reduction is a symptom of this. NW and DL used to compete for traffic in the Southeast, and now it is all combined into a big ball
29 nwaesc : "They" meaning DL, or the carrier the senior planner works for? True. I used to work the AMS flight in MEM. Totally anecdotal, but the connecting tra
30 jetlanta : The other carrier. You can be sure the same plans are falling into place across the industry with oil above $100/barrel.
31 enilria : I think that is highly likely unless the city writes a check...and frankly they should or they can kiss Transatlantic service on a passenger aircraft
32 PSU.DTW.SCE : Yeah with oil this high, there is certainly going to be significant capacity cuts post-summer. I feel like this industry is always just contracting, s
33 TOMMY767 : This route must have been mixed results. Even EWR-AMS got upgraded to a A332 for the summer... Even though they might claim this route as "seasonal" a
34 staralliance85 : It was only a matter of time that DL was going to axe this route. DL really cut dehubbed MEM since the DL/NW merger. With their ATL super hub there is
35 MSYtristar : MEM O&D traffic is terrible for a hub city. Frankly I'm surprised the flight lasted this long. When DL contracts MEM further, cities like AUS ,BNA
36 B727FA : Well, CVG FA's did get the 6 day CDG trip back (which included a CDG-PIT-CDG in the middle) for the spring.
37 JohnJ : On a lighter note, MEM-SFO is apparently back for the summer.
38 Indy : In a way it is sad to see the flight go. MEM has character, the food is great, and the people there seem nice. The problem with the service is that t
39 nwaesc : What? I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I'd think that's at the very end of a long lists of reasons.
40 SouthernDC9 : I can confirm though that the departure gate for this flight is rather quite cramped, and in the past (in my experience anyway) the evening DCA fligh
41 IAHworldflyer : When I was in MEM in January I was shocked how few mainline planes DL had at the gates. no more than a half dozen. Everything was RJ's. So what other
42 nwaesc : Having worked there myself, I certainly agree. I'm just saying that "cramped gate space" is not going to generally be a reason to cut a flight like t
43 enilria : 100% agree Also agree. CVG has more corporate support.
44 TOMMY767 : That and not to mention there was that news article from a local MEM TV station that bashed Delta for raising prices at the airport. Apparently its s
45 nwaesc : Local media bashing the hometown carrier (or hub) is a long standing tradition, unfortunately. 'Course, those same outlets will also bemoan any servi
46 Indy : Maybe my wording didn't make that point clear. What I was trying to get at was this was an issue to me from a customer service perspective. Certainly
47 tripple7 : Sad news....but we all saw it coming after the NW take-over by DL. Was hoping this niche would hold as well as Portland - AMS. Flew the route myself a
48 SouthernDC9 : I remember seeing the beautiful KLM flight attendants at MEM in their bright blue uniforms. Very neat.
49 Post contains images IrishAyes : Ugh, EVERYTHING is contracting, including the hardware. Downsizing aircraft, seat space, airport restrooms, terminal space, security areas, it's horr
50 Post contains images nwaesc : Ok, cool. Makes sense now. Let's just say a "highlight" of working that flight was seeing the crews disembark... Lol. Yep. What about SEA? Not near t
51 RWA380 : So where is DL going to be utilizing this aircraft? I'm expecting this is a one frame operation.
52 PSU.DTW.SCE : Who knows where DL will utilize this aircraft. More than likely it will just be idle capacity during the winter months. The fleets are not fully utili
53 TOMMY767 : SEA is more of a small focus city for DL. It was not a big city for them pre-merger either. They have NW to thank for their acquired base for FF's. A
54 Cubsrule : I doubt Delta's cuts have had much impact on Memphis' fares. Most of the flights they've cut were 80 percent connecting passengers.
55 TOMMY767 : Yes, they have. I can't find the link but Delta's fares at MEM have been elevated since the merger by a bit. The local news did a story on it and vid
56 Cubsrule : The fact that fares have increased - which I do not dispute - in no way proves that the cuts are the cause of those increases.
57 SouthernDC9 : Fares in MEM have always been elevated due to (as I understand it) the dominance of NW/DL combined with a relatively weak O&D market that discoura
58 sxf24 : Yeah, and fuel has increased sharply since the merger. I guess that is Delta's fault too.
59 DesertFlyer : I always thought fares were high under NW. I ended up driving over to LIT as the fare was much cheaper the couple of times I went to MEM.
60 steex : Given that it's just inside their self-imposed 2-class RJ perimeter of 750 miles, I would assume DL would just move the DAL service over to ATL if th
61 IAHworldflyer : Generally, as capacity declines on a route, fares will increase. 3 mainline flights a day is plus or minus 400 seats per day to fill. Replacing those
62 IrishAyes : Yes, but there is more to this than the correlation. It largely has to do with oil and the fact that the RJ's they are using at the MEM hub is high C
63 CIDFlyer : sad to see this route go, and another "decline" in the feather in the cap that is the MEM hub. Hopefully at some point the cutting stops and MEM can s
64 FlyASAGuy2005 : Of all the listed cities, i'd probably give you SHV and MSY. The remainin flights are all an hour or less flying time to ATL. The whole "back track"
65 Cubsrule : Maybe if you are flying at warp speed, but LIT-DFW-LAX is more than 600 miles shorter than LIT-ATL-LAX, and XNA-DFW-SEA is nearly 800 miles shorter t
66 FlyASAGuy2005 : Ill post some facts and we can take from it what we want.. AA LIT-DFW-LAX 3/9 - Average trip time for published sellable connections is 7hrs 38mins XN
67 Post contains links JohnJ : There was an an interview with Richard Anderson the other day in the Memphis Commercial Appeal. He's still claiming Delta is sticking by the Memphis h
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