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50 Years Ago Today - AAL 707 Crash, Idlewild  
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7097 times:

Just reading the latest Airways and read an interesting article about the crash of an American Airlines 707 this day in 1962.

A little after 10am, American 1 - operated by N7506A, already three years in service by then - took off from Runway 31 at Idlewild. Less than two minutes later, all 95 on board were dead. It had crashed 3mi SW of the airport, in an area called Pumpkin Patch Channel. The aircraft had crashed at a 78 degree angle.

The crew was unable to do anything to prevent a crash, which was determined by the CAB - forerunner of the NTSB - to have been caused by a rudder control system malfunction.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLVTMB From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 391 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6834 times:

Wow! What a sad memory. Thank you for posting ...

Interesting enough, that servide still uses the same flight number to this date -- AAL 1. Normally, flight numbers involved in crashes are retired.

LVTMB


User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6833 times:

Very interesting, and sad. Weren't there some very important people on that flight? Hoipoloi of the day?


Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12408 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6689 times:

Quoting LVTMB (Reply 1):
Very interesting, and sad. Weren't there some very important people on that flight? Hoipoloi of the day?

There were a few notables - a well known oilman (and close friend of former Pres. Eisenhower), a retired Admiral (also president of Long Island Univ.), a Hollywood movie producer and a hotel magnate.

Interestingly that day, there was supposed to be a parade in NY to welcome Astronaut (and later Senator) John Glenn back from his space trip.


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8541 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6630 times:
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Quoting raffik (Reply 2):
Weren't there some very important people on that flight?

I believe that there were 95 very important people on the flight, and no unimportant ones.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6518 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 4):
I believe that there were 95 very important people on the flight, and no unimportant ones

I meant well known. But I suspect you knew what I meant but were being facetious  



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlinejpyvr From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6250 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 2):
Hoipoloi of the day?

Just a note from an English teacher to let you know that hoi polloi doesn't mean important people, or VIPs. In fact, it means the opposite - the common people, the masses.


User currently offlineredflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4313 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 6215 times:

Quoting LVTMB (Reply 1):
Interesting enough, that servide still uses the same flight number to this date -- AAL 1. Normally, flight numbers involved in crashes are retired.

Just a guess, but #1 is a very unique number so they might not have wanted to retire it.



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlineJETSTAR From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1639 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6180 times:
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Quoting kaitak (Reply 3):
Interestingly that day, there was supposed to be a parade in NY to welcome Astronaut (and later Senator) John Glenn back from his space trip.

There was a parade for John Glenn that day, I saw the parade from an office building my brother worked in.

I heard about the crash when I got home and turned on the evening news, sad way to end what was a great day.

JetStar


User currently offlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1072 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5886 times:

Retiring a flight number after a fatal accident is a fairly recent development, around the mid-1980s or so. I can't think of any examples earlier than that, with the possible exception of AA 191 in 1979. For example, two fatal TWA flight 800 fatal accidents have occurred, the first in 1964 and of course 1996.

User currently offlineredflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4313 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5816 times:

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 9):
two fatal TWA flight 800

Thanks for the tip...I'll be sure to never board a flight #800, whatever the airline.  



I'm not a racist...I hate Biden, too.
User currently offlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1072 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5744 times:

Flight 191 has a jinxed history.

1972 - Prinair 191 crashes, a De Havilland Heron. Five fatalities out of 19.

1979 AA 191 goes down, a DC-10 no surviviors.

1985 DL 191 a L-10ll Tristar, few survivors

and 2005 ? Comair RJ crashes on take off... again it's Flight 191 one survivor

Weird!


User currently onlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5650 times:

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 11):
2005 ? Comair RJ crashes on take off... again it's Flight 191 one survivor

It was August 27, 2006, and the flight number was 5191. I believe it was an internal thing at Comair that the flight was referred to as 191. In all media reports it was Comair 5191.


User currently offlineTonyBurr From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1021 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4595 times:

Where was this flight headed?

User currently offlineType-Rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4941 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4249 times:

The flight was headed to LAX. Notable victims included Linda Eastman's mother. Linda later became Paul McCartney's wife.


Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 727 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3651 times:

It's interesting to note that AA lost three 707s between 1959 and 1962 around the NY/Long Island region. In 1959 a 707 on a training flight crashed near Calverton, NY. Then, in 1961 another 707 on a training flight crashed near Montauk Point. Then, there was this crash in 1962.

User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6129 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3598 times:
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Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 11):
1985 DL 191 a L-10ll Tristar, few survivors

That flight number was not retired. My father flew it often, between 1986 and 1992 DFW-LAX. Maybe the FLL-DFW portion had a different number, but DL kept it on the next segment.



MGGS
User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3571 times:
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I was a 10 year old living on Long island at the time. I believe the crash was the same day as John Glenn's ticker tape parade in NYC. Glenn's orbital flight was on Feb 20th.

The wreckage of that AA 707 was eventually stored on a vacant lot in Oceanside, NY. I recall clearly the many obvious parts of an airliner that were visible in that storage lot... vertical stabilizer, landing gear etc.


User currently offlineAA87 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3488 times:

I was born in 1967, grew up on Long Island and became instantly hooked on flying on my first ride on an AA 707 JFK-PHX in 1975. Didn't know about this tragedy until after the string of 737 rudder accidents in the 80s-90s. I'm a huge Boeing fan, but having said that, I was amazed to learn there was a catastrophic rudder control accident like this, and then took a few more 20-30 years later before Boeing (hopefully) fixed it for good.

User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 17):
The wreckage of that AA 707 was eventually stored on a vacant lot in Oceanside, NY. I recall clearly the many obvious parts of an airliner that were visible in that storage lot... vertical stabilizer, landing gear etc.
Weird. My mom and grandparents lived there at the time. I wonder if they knew about this. I'll have to ask.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineBralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 621 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3379 times:

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):

The crew was unable to do anything to prevent a crash, which was determined by the CAB - forerunner of the NTSB - to have been caused by a rudder control system malfunction.

Didn't crash flight SN548 back in 1961 due similar causes? (the plane was a 707-329)


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24803 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3371 times:

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 12):
Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 11):
2005 ? Comair RJ crashes on take off... again it's Flight 191 one survivor

It was August 27, 2006, and the flight number was 5191. I believe it was an internal thing at Comair that the flight was referred to as 191. In all media reports it was Comair 5191.

I think it was 191 operationally (ATC etc. ) and 5191 for resevations/ticketing purposes.


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