airevents From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 811 posts, RR: 3 Posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8873 times:
As per this newspaper report (sorry I couldn´t find anything in English so far), LH will not inaugurate the planned DUS-NRT service this summer due to very low demand apparently. What a shame and quite unexpected to me. Wonder if they will offer anything else instead?
744lover From Brazil, joined Nov 2000, 164 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8371 times:
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 2): will not replace the A330s at DUS with A340s.
Something that has been on my mind for some time is why LH has A330 and A343 configured with exactly the same number of seats 8 / 48 / 165 (at least according to seatguru)? Number of cockpit and cabin crew is the same when we compare a same route... So, what's the deal?
B6A322 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 287 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8019 times:
Would be very cool and pleased to DUS-JFK again. Yes I know airberlin flies it, but given the choice...
The content I post is solely my own opinion. It is not an official statement by/of/for nor representative of any company
joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3128 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7800 times:
Quoting 744lover (Reply 3): Something that has been on my mind for some time is why LH has A330 and A343 configured with exactly the same number of seats 8 / 48 / 165 (at least according to seatguru)? Number of cockpit and cabin crew is the same when we compare a same route... So, what's the deal?
It has to do with flexibility while using the fleet. With identically configured 333/343, you have the possibility to swap aircraft easily.
- The 343 can fly any route the 333 can, but will use more fuel while doing so
- The 333 cannot fly all routes flown by the 343, but is more fuel-efficient on the routes it can fly
Now, this makes it possible to use the 343 when needed, and the 333 when possible.
When operating an extensive schedule (like LH does), this really comes to fruition. It makes it possible to sometimes fly an A-market (6-8 hours) route on a 343 when it fits between two long (10+ hours) flights, but to also use the 333 on these A-market routes whenever possible.
Quite some carriers use the 333/343 combination this way, including LH, AY, LX.
FN1001 From Moldova, joined Sep 2008, 213 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5476 times:
As far as I remember from Dusseldorf to FRA you have every hour at least one direct high speed train that needs about 90 minutes. This time-frame you also need from NRT to Tokyo downtown. From FRA you have JAL, ANA, LH to NRT and the 787 to HND.
Is there also a code-share agreement between the German Rail and LH for the segment FRA-Dusseldorf, like they have to Stuttgart and Heidelberg?
Sorry if this has already been answered, what is the point of the route DUS- NRT? If it is for those businessman who can not afford the 90 minutes in a train to FRA, then the route should go to HND, right? Or is it for the budget travelers who don't want to pay for the train?
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 654 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 5132 times:
Quoting FN1001 (Reply 7): Sorry if this has already been answered, what is the point of the route DUS- NRT?
I second that. LH already flies from MUC and FRA. For a country 1/25th the size of the US, a third gateway to Japan seems overdoing it, even with all the business traffic. It's not like there aren't enough connection opportunities on LH or Star partners. Smart move to cancel before inauguration rather than starting it, flying for a few months and then canceling - saves face.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31117 posts, RR: 74 Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4917 times:
Quoting FN1001 (Reply 7): Sorry if this has already been answered, what is the point of the route DUS- NRT? If it is for those businessman who can not afford the 90 minutes in a train to FRA, then the route should go to HND, right? Or is it for the budget travelers who don't want to pay for the train?
Dusseldorf is home to the largest Japanese immigrant community in Europe.
Burkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4248 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4761 times:
Quoting 744lover (Reply 3): Something that has been on my mind for some time is why LH has A330 and A343 configured with exactly the same number of seats 8 / 48 / 165 (at least according to seatguru)? Number of cockpit and cabin crew is the same when we compare a same route... So, what's the deal?
These A340s are already paid for - and at those times they were new the A333 had far less range/payload as today. So the last year LH increased its fleet of A340 by taking those with two engines. It still is cheaper to use paid for A340s whcih use more fuel than new A330 which need less fuel - and the flexibility this brings is for free.
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 8): Quoting FN1001 (Reply 7):
Sorry if this has already been answered, what is the point of the route DUS- NRT?
I second that. LH already flies from MUC and FRA. For a country 1/25th the size of the US, a third gateway to Japan seems overdoing it, even with all the business traffic. It's not like there aren't enough connection opportunities on LH or Star partners. Smart move to cancel before inauguration rather than starting it, flying for a few months and then canceling - saves face.
There really is a big Japanese community in DUS - so a connection DUS-Japan should work. But the current state of the Japaneese economy is faible, and Japaneese people love to fly on Japaneese airlines - they are home earlier. So I always wondered - since Japan-Germany is a JV anyways, if it would not make more sense ANA flies to DUS ( the 788 is the ideal aircraft for that) and LH takes more of the flights ex FRA/MUC .
vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3592 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4190 times:
Quoting FN1001 (Reply 7): Is there also a code-share agreement between the German Rail and LH for the segment FRA-Dusseldorf, like they have to Stuttgart and Heidelberg?
No, "AIRail" is only between FRA and Cologne / Stuttgart. Heidelberg is a bus service, for Düsseldorf, one has to travel on a rail ticket. Trains with a Lufthansa compartment are only hourly, whereas there are much more trains without a Lufthansa compartment. Since it is no longer possible to check in luggage in Cologne and Stuttgart, the only real advantage is that Lufthansa has to reprotect you if there is a problem with the train service. Other than that, a regular "rail&fly" ticket gives much better flexibility for roughly the same price as the "AIRail" tag on to a FRA flight costs.
Quoting godbless (Reply 11): Does ANA still have the airport busses driving passengers from DUS to FRA in time to reach their flights to NRT?
Semaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 769 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2437 times:
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 10): if it would not make more sense ANA flies to DUS ( the 788 is the ideal aircraft for that) and LH takes more of the flights ex FRA/MUC .
Good point, but given there are far more "prestigious" or "viable" routes the 788 could fly ex NRT I don't think it's going to happen any time soon. Maybe if they start getting more frames. That would be nice.
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
vinniewinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 727 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2272 times:
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 12): No, "AIRail" is only between FRA and Cologne / Stuttgart. Heidelberg is a bus service, for Düsseldorf, one has to travel on a rail ticket. Trains with a Lufthansa compartment are only hourly, whereas there are much more trains without a Lufthansa compartment. Since it is no longer possible to check in luggage in Cologne and Stuttgart, the only real advantage is that Lufthansa has to reprotect you if there is a problem with the train service. Other than that, a regular "rail&fly" ticket gives much better flexibility for roughly the same price as the "AIRail" tag on to a FRA flight costs.
That's interesting. a bit off-topic what did they discontinue the luggage service?
CityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 642 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1599 times:
Quoting joost (Reply 5): It has to do with flexibility while using the fleet. With identically configured 333/343, you have the possibility to swap aircraft easily.
Quoting joost (Reply 5): When operating an extensive schedule (like LH does), this really comes to fruition. It makes it possible to sometimes fly an A-market (6-8 hours) route on a 343 when it fits between two long (10+ hours) flights, but to also use the 333 on these A-market routes whenever possible.
Exactly. I just recently booked myself with LH on GOT-FRA-AUH-FRA-GOT, where the outbound flight is an A333 while the homebound flight is an A343.
Glareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1284 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1549 times:
Clearly the demand should be there. But the circumstances must be good in order to make it a success. Departure and arrival times should be good and it should have something extra. I would suggest to fly to HND. That would even attract pax from FRA and MUC. And I agree that NH would even have better chances.
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3128 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1443 times:
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 10): It still is cheaper to use paid for A340s whcih use more fuel than new A330 which need less fuel - and the flexibility this brings is for free.
Of course not. For individual scheduling decisions, direct (marginal) operating costs is the only relevant factor. Here, the 333 is cheaper than the 343, on both fuel and maintenance.
Fixed (recurring) costs (interest / lease, insurance) are only relevant once you decide on acquiring or keeping the aircraft, not when deciding what aircraft will be used when making a schedule.
The other way around: if you need to choose a spare aircraft, would you pick the new 333 or old 343? In that case, the old 343 is the better choice for a spare aircraft, as the 333 will consume less fuel when flying the route.
Once you have bought or long-term leased an aircraft, for scheduling decisions, it makes no difference if the monthly rates are low or high, as you need to pay them anyhow.
For the NRT-DUS route, the 343 is the aircraft of choice as the 333 cannot do it with a reasonable payload anyway.
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 10): There really is a big Japanese community in DUS - so a connection DUS-Japan should work. But the current state of the Japaneese economy is faible, and Japaneese people love to fly on Japaneese airlines - they are home earlier.
I believe this is valid for all nationalities. When looking at air fares, departures on the 'home carrier' are always more expensive than foreign carriers, for the simple reason that many people are willing to pay a premium to fly on their 'own' carrier.
Quoting Burkhard (Reply 10): So I always wondered - since Japan-Germany is a JV anyways, if it would not make more sense ANA flies to DUS ( the 788 is the ideal aircraft for that) and LH takes more of the flights ex FRA/MUC .
This could indeed make more sense, also as the 788 is offering slightly less seats than the 343. Also, for a Japanese carrier, a HND route is more feasible, as the 23:00-07:00 operating hour timeline works better for Japan-originating flights than for Europe-originating flights.
Sponsor Message: 
From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 811 posts, 
From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 8473 posts, 
From Brazil, joined Nov 2000, 164 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 287 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3128 posts, 
From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 734 posts, 
From Moldova, joined Sep 2008, 213 posts, 
From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 654 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31117 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21481 posts, 
From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2403 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
