PPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8492 posts, RR: 43 Posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8071 times:
According to Folha.com.br, GOL is planing to fly from GRU to MIA through CCS beginning in July 2012. The airline is expected to use 737s and already has ANAC approval.
727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5713 posts, RR: 20 Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8066 times:
OMG, I was JUST thinking about this 2 days ago, but figured their 73G couldn't make it from Brazil. With the stop in CCS, will they be using 73G or 738?
globalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 800 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8035 times:
This is great news. I believe that G3 will be terminating their agreements with AA in August. I wonder if this means that G3 will be exclusive with DL since DL has invested in G3. The orange colours of G3 will be welcome in the US.
Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7340 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8048 times:
Didn't see this one coming, its bold of GOL to fly a 737NG so far north.
TR1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 223 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7962 times:
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 1995 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7920 times:
Would Venezuela give G3 5th freedom traffic between CCS and MFW?
Not sure Venezuelans are too keen to give traffic rights between Venezuela and U.S. to non-Venezuelan airlines, under the current circumstances.
The B737-700/800 has the range for Brazil-MFW non-stop, being Brazil MAO, BEL, SLZ or CGB.
IMHO, GRU-CGB-MFW may be a more attractive route than via CCS and G3 may be best staying away from MIA flying to FLL, specially now that Brazilian JJ is part of LA and LA+other LA airlines belongs to the same alliance as AA.
MFW = IATA for Miami-Ft Lauderdale-West Palm Beach metro area
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 1995 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7654 times:
Quoting tonytifao (Reply 9): They better have some good fares to be able to compete with all the non stops and widebodys
That's probably why flying via a major Brazilian city currently with no direct link to MIA -but within B737 range - might be a better option than via CCS.
If G3 already got the MIA 5th freedom from Venezuela, then that flight will see very few GRU-MIA passengers, as CCS-MIA-CCS traffic might be able to cover all the operational expenses of the entire GRU-CCS-MIA route.
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3512 posts, RR: 21 Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7564 times:
I have known about this for some weeks now, but chose not to write anything about it here just like some other A.net members, since there were no details and specifics about what they were planning. It's become clear now that they are bit clueless. We are seeing their amateurish ways about international service all over again. It's kind of embarrassing.
Gol had 14 Brazil-US and 7 additional Brazil-Venezuela frequencies allocated on February 16th. http://www2.anac.gov.br/biblioteca/portarias/2012/PA2012-0326.pdf http://www2.anac.gov.br/biblioteca/portarias/2012/PA2012-0325.pdf
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3): Note: the article says Miami, not necessarily MIA
First, Brazilians generally do not refer to South Florida Metro as Miami. Second, the Venezuela-Brazil ASA is specific about Miami.
Quoting A388 (Reply 5): How trustworthy is this organization that publishes the article? Are there more sources about this?
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 1995 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7489 times:
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12): Second, the Venezuela-Brazil ASA is specific about Miami.
Specific as flight must be to MIA or can't be to MIA?
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 12): The Venezuela-Brazil bilateral agreement already allows 5th freedom rights to 50% of the 21 agreed weekly flights.
Well hope G3 sees the opportunity and does it the way it should. G3 on the CCS-Florida market would definitely leave an impression.
If G3 got allowance for 10-11 Venezuela-US flights then G3 should immediately study a GIG-MAR-MFW too, thrice weekly may be fine.
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3512 posts, RR: 21 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7204 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 13): Specific as flight must be to MIA or can't be to MIA?
It must be to MIA. It's very improbable that Venezuela will reinterpret the bilateral in favour of other points in South Florida.
Other allowed 5th freedom rights destinations are Aruba, Cuba, Dominican Republic and Panama.
Quoting tim171080 (Reply 10):
I didn't know that! Being a Miami resident for 5 years now, I never came across this 3LC. SFL would have been nice!
That's because only GCM carries it, AFAIK.
MFW is the IATA code for Magaruque.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9067 posts, RR: 13 Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7066 times:
Thanks C010T3, the way I read it, the document you linked only explains what they intend to do with regards to the frequencies to the U.S. and Venezuela. It doesn't state G3's actual plan to start flights from CCS to MIA. If you have more information, please let us know here.
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3512 posts, RR: 21 Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7012 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 15):
Thanks C010T3, the way I read it, the document you linked only explains what they intend to do with regards to the frequencies to the U.S. and Venezuela. It doesn't state G3's actual plan to start flights from CCS to MIA. If you have more information, please let us know here.
That press release is just the airline cleaning the mess up. There are more than enough frequencies in the pool to apply for at any time. Gol made a huge mistake by applying for those frequencies before they had a plan.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9067 posts, RR: 13 Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6966 times:
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 16): That press release is just the airline cleaning the mess up. There are more than enough frequencies in the pool to apply for at any time. Gol made a huge mistake by applying for those frequencies before they had a plan.
So this rumor of G3 going to start a CCS-MIA route in July of 2012 is not true? Will it happen or not?
C010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3512 posts, RR: 21 Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6896 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 17):
So this rumor of G3 going to start a CCS-MIA route in July of 2012 is not true? Will it happen or not?
It will probably happen, but it's not 100% certain. The July deadline comes from the fact that the frequencies return to the allocation pool if not used for 180 days. Furthermore, Gol stated that narrowbody aircraft will be used, so everybody is assuming that one of the flight will be via CCS. There are other rumours about the other flight being via BEL.
You saw the title of that press release "GOL ANNOUNCES A STUDY OF FLIGHTS TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". It's not to the USA and Venezuela, so it's pretty clear that Venezuela will be a stop.
What they are still arguing is whether the flights will be launched at all. Basically, they have revealed something to the competition without having to. That's why the allocation request was premature, which is a sign of a very amateur strategic team there.
BW424 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Sep 2008, 1339 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5689 times:
Quoting PPVRA (Reply 3): Note: the article says Miami, not necessarily MIA
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 14): t must be to MIA. It's very improbable that Venezuela will reinterpret the bilateral in favour of other points in South Florida.
Other allowed 5th freedom rights destinations are Aruba, Cuba, Dominican Republic and Panama.
I can tell you that it is MIA. I'm currently working on some market profiles to present to G3 so that they have an idea of the traffic inbound and outbound on their desired routings. But that is all that I can say, at least for now.
[Edited 2012-03-02 19:02:28]
It is what we think we know already that prevents us from learning.......
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4073 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5606 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8): Would Venezuela give G3 5th freedom traffic between CCS and MFW?
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 11): If G3 already got the MIA 5th freedom from Venezuela, then that flight will see very few GRU-MIA passengers, as CCS-MIA-CCS traffic might be able to cover all the operational expenses of the entire GRU-CCS-MIA route.
I know there's issues for flights linking Venezuela and the USA at this time.
On the other hand, Gol already gets traffic rights to operate flights out of Caracas.
The airline flies G3 GRU-CCS-AUA 2x weekly and G3 GRU-CCS-PUJ 5x weekly.
.
Quoting C010T3 (Reply 18): There are other rumours about the other flight being via BEL.
That makes sense.
JJ flew FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA 7x weekly with 320 prior to the launch of the dedicated JJ MAO-MIA 7x weekly with 763.
tonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 959 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5321 times:
GOL used to be one of the most profitable airlines before buying RG brand/intl routes rights. Could they have not raised money back in the days to then acquire some 777s and make a nice intl product? These people seem pretty dumb to me!
NASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3079 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5147 times:
I was expecting to read about them flying their 767s that they have painted in Varig colors like they were doing for the charters to MCO
25 oksman: I agree with you. If they want to compete internationally, they should order 787´s and meanwhile, get some 777´s to start international routes non-
26 Rafabozzolla: According to Jetsite, a local Brazilian aviation site, the flights will start with a 737 but will switch to 787. Apparently, G3 is looking for the one
27 AwysBSB: That makes sense indeed. Furthermore, BEL has one of the best location for a international hub of a Brazilian narrow-body fleet airline. Out of BEL,
28 VC10er: A 787 GOL branded aircraft or a VARIG branded 787? It would seem to me that the NRG would be the way to go-- but it needs a really brand new experien
29 oksman: According to Jetsite, a local Brazilian aviation site, the flights will start with a 737 but will switch to 787. Apparently, G3 is looking for the one
30 Rafabozzolla: I only know what I've read. My take on Jetsite is that they tend to be knowledgeable but their journalism is very inconsistent.
31 C010T3: Journalism? Jetsite is all about Ctrl+C, Crtl+V, even from unreliable sources.
32 Avianca: that would be more than great if the flight would go online. This will certainly help to bring a little bit down the fares on CCS-MIA-CCS. Gol seems t
33 MAH4546: Rumor has it Gol will soon make an order for nine 787s official.
34 LipeGIG: This will probably become : GIG-CCS-MIA service, establishing a Rio-Caracas service, oil to oil, allowing also customers on GRU-CCS-Caribbean to conne
35 SJOtoLIR: I'm still puzzled in this regard. If G3 would acquire 787s in the future for launching flights between Brazil and the USA, it might imply the suspens
36 2travel2know2: When I 1st flew G3, I thought it was something like U2, which to my surprise it wasn't. Question with the G3 model in South America is what kind of ai
37 Rafabozzolla: I'd say, if G3 really fares into a true non-stop long-haul operation, it would be more like an Air-Berlin sort of model. High-density planes, and a sm
38 A388: Are you referring to the frequencies as in G3 having these frequencies to the U.S. and Venezuela now and need to use them before July to keep them? A
39 C010T3: Exactly, the following links are the official frequencies allocations by the ANAC:
40 tonytifao: Brazil really doesn't offer any good domestic service. To me, TAM is also LCC on it's domestic service.
41 IrishAyes: That's kind of the million dollar question here, and I hope that (as Lipe pointed out) the relationship with DL can solidify GOL's understanding of w
42 C010T3: It is, but Gol is not able to attract that public. Gol will have to go for junk-yielding traffic on Brazil-US. Perhaps, the strategy is exactly that,
43 IrishAyes: I'm not really sure what the nature of the yields are on MIA-VZ traffic, but there are a lot of players in that market, including AA and LAN, which g
44 2travel2know2: MIA-CCS traffic is very high yield lately. The only important players - non-stop flights - are AA and LA. Passengers tend to stay away from Venezuela
45 C010T3: Those are very thin routes. Even CGB/SLZ-USA markets are bigger.
46 erikgnoha: Sorry but I disagree on this one. LA is not at all an important player on this route. They only fly 2 times a week, while SBA has 3 daily flights. It
47 SJOtoLIR: So it was reduced. LAN usually operated LA MIA-CCS 2x weekly and LA MIA-CCS-GYE-SCL 1x weekly. I checked amadeus.net and LAN indeed flies only two we
48 MAH4546: Nothing has been reduced. LAN has never flown more than 2x weekly MIACCS.
49 IrishAyes: As I would expect. However, even though AA may not have the best reputation in South America, it is one of their most profitable and prized assets in
50 MAH4546: What fight? AA can't add frequency and can't add capacity absent permission - and like with MIAVLN, permission is likely to be continually denied. En
51 IrishAyes: Well, that is the condition, but the question remains as to whether or not G3 will be able to walk away with any of that high yielding traffic. But,
52 LipeGIG: Nowadays this traffic need to go thru a lot of hubs such as PTY, CLT, MCO, IAH, IAD, JFK, EWR, ATL and others. A matter of demand.
53 MAH4546: The MIACCS market is so grossly undeserved, that G3 can forget about even needi g to feed it with Brazil traffic, it then becomes an issue of whether
54 2travel2know2: That's probably what would happen, each segment will be viable on its own.
55 IrishAyes: Understandable, I can see why the demand levels for MIA-SAO/RIO are high enough, and nonstop links are limited enough, for there to be spillover to t
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