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UA International 3 Class 767 Lifespan?  
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2896 posts, RR: 10
Posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 6913 times:
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It seems as if United 3 class 767's are very busy airplanes, I assume due to the fact they don't have a huge amount to cover all the destinations that they would be perfect for. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I am just guessing and admitted novice... but while UA has great flexibility within it's entire fleet, there are only 40 some 3 class versions.

I just was on one and upgraded to F and from that angle the ac doesn't look as old as it probably is. In fact it looks brand new. I'm sure economy stinks. But as the 787 trickle into the fleet in 2 class configuration will UA want to retire these 3 class birds so fast? Many of them fly to destinations where 3 classes are needed to compete, like LHR and GVA, GRU, Africa and much more.

If (and hopefully) the USA and the rest of the world come out of these tough times, and hopefully in a robust way, I could imagine even more international routes added and these older 767's needed.

Depending on what happens with AA and their 3 class 767's would we more likely see UA squeezing more time out of old birds or convert some of the 50 787's going to 3 classes? Or additional 787 orders?


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30974 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6877 times:
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I would imagine Economy is not bad on them - they have PTVs and 7-abreast is pretty nice.

With the money UA has invested in the new interiors, I expect the planes have a decent lifespan ahead of them.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25291 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6788 times:

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
I'm sure economy stinks.

7-abreast economy on any 767 is excellent, by far the best Y class configuration of any widebody. Only a 1 in 7 chance of a middle seat. Nothing else comes close.


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6722 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
With the money UA has invested in the new interiors, I expect the planes have a decent lifespan ahead of them.

I believe that pre-merger the plan was to retire these 1 for 1 with 787 arrivals starting around 2016. I also think these birds can have a few more years left, but who knows...One way or the other by the end of this decade they will start to be retired.


User currently offlinePDPsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1115 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6587 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 3):
I believe that pre-merger the plan was to retire these 1 for 1 with 787 arrivals starting around 2016. I also think these birds can have a few more years left, but who knows...One way or the other by the end of this decade they will start to be retired.

The 787-822 deliveries start later this year and will, apparently, replace the existing 767-224ER fleet on a one-to-one basis. There are only 8 of these in the fleet, so the remaining 787-8 deliveries could be used to replace some 767-322ER examples or for expansion.

However, as we all know, UA is converting 14 aircraft in its 767-322ER fleet from a 'domestic' format into a 2-class international format, complete with United Business First seating and United Y+ features. One would imagine the UA 767-322ER fleet, with 35 examples in both 3-class and 2-class international format, have quite of bit of mileage left in them. They could be in operation for several years in the future.

The 16 767-424ERs in the fleet are also converting into a 2-class international format, with United Business First seating and Y+ features. One would imagine these are also in good shape and will serve UA for years in the future.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9633 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6384 times:

The 767-300s are scheduled for replacement in 2016-2019, so they will be around another 5 years. UA's 3-class 767s are much better than DL or AA's.

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
Please correct me if I'm wrong, I am just guessing and admitted novice... but while UA has great flexibility within it's entire fleet, there are only 40 some 3 class versions.

There are 14 2-class (being converted from domestic to international) and 18 3-class 767s. The fleet has always been spread thin. They are needed for South America and small market transatlantic routes. However there is some flexibility. ORD-LHR has 2-3 767 flights and that can be upgraded to 777s or 747s as needed to free up 767s.

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):

I just was on one and upgraded to F and from that angle the ac doesn't look as old as it probably is. I

The seats are only 4-5 years old as they were refreshed in 2008/2009 with brand new first and business.

Quoting VC10er (Thread starter):
I'm sure economy stinks.

UA has PTVs, economy plus and new seat covers. They aren't that bad. Not as good as the new 777 seats, but many prefer the 2-3-2 configuration.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinekb003cal From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6180 times:

Quoting PDPsol (Reply 4):

so the 787-8 are going 22 instead of 24


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2896 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6095 times:
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Very interesting about economy. Really the first time I've ever read anything positive about UA in economy since they launched Y+.

I know the 747's are supposed to be the worst, but I've read what Smisek has said about fixing what he agrees with is an unacceptable economy.

But back to the 3 class 767's; I guess it simply comes down to the fact I fear the loss of First on those planes. I wouldn't want to have a United that was 2 class. I fly UA 200,000 full fare business miles a year. I cherish those few times they gift me into First. This past week in Europe I got sick and so I upgraded so I could suffer alone in a pod and not infect my seat mate! Or, when I am on a trip to Asia or Sao Paulo and my meetings cause for celebration - I will treat myself. OR if I have a crappy business trip, at least I can choose a private ride home in a seat I sleep better in than my bed.

So, if those 3 class 767's go, I will really miss them! (I do have one client that is a very rich company and when I travel with them, they will pay my way in)

I wonder if they will spec any of those 787's as 3 class. They will compete with BA, LH, LX, and most Asian carriers. Even TAM has one or two rows of First.

(BTW: I just priced United First Class to GRU and it was $13,000 bucks!



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinecaptainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5906 times:

Quoting kb003cal (Reply 6):
so the 787-8 are going 22 instead of 24

I believe the 25 copies ordered by pmCO will be designated -24s and the 25 copies ordered by pmUA will be -22s. Just a hunch though, it depends on Boeing's processes and the documentation with the FAA.



Long Live the Tulip!
User currently offlineORDJOE From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5802 times:

$13k for first class is cheap, most of the time it is more than 15 and can go high as 25k

User currently onlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2348 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5342 times:

I thought UA was going to be installing Winglets on these 767-300ER A/C?


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineb757jetjockey From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5171 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 10):
I thought UA was going to be installing Winglets on these 767-300ER A/C?

That's the plan! Have to wait and see when the first ones show up. Word was January of 2012 for the first installations of winglets on the B763s. I think it'll look very sharp and clean.


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2896 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3389 times:
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Quoting b757jetjockey (Reply 11):

That's music to my ears! It would mean these comfy 767's will be around for a while longer!

Plus, since a 767-300 does look a bit dated, the ones I've seen with winglets do look great, especially watching one zoom into the sky!



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2702 times:

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 8):
I believe the 25 copies ordered by pmCO will be designated -24s and the 25 copies ordered by pmUA will be -22s. Just a hunch though, it depends on Boeing's processes and the documentation with the FAA.

They're all being delivered as -822s. The last two digits are a customer code, hardly an FAA-worthy matter.


NS


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