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DEN - Denver International Airport Expansion  
User currently offlineAG2006 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 5 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12168 times:

DEN is about to begin a $500 million expansion. Project elements include a new train station (30 min travel time to downtown denver, service every 15 min), a plaza and a 500 room Westin hotel. Completion scheduled for 2015.

Santiago Calatrava was previously attached to this project. This was the original design, when Calatrava was the architect and the budget was $650 million. There was also to have been a signature rail bridge, but this element was cut.

Big version: Width: 1800 Height: 1012 File size: 194kb


These are the latest renderings from Gensler via DenverInfill.com (more available there).









More images here: http://denverinfill.com/blog/2012/02...ort-terminal-expansion-update.html



This will be the train. It is an electric multiple unit train made by Hyundai like those coming into service in Philadelphia.



The line in blue is the airport route. DIA is what locals call DEN.

Big version: Width: 860 Height: 315 File size: 36kb


[Edited 2012-03-04 00:58:56]

32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 12061 times:

Thanks for the update i hadnt seen those photos before. Its about time. Denver needs a real train. The light rail system is good for short distances but not for as long a distance as the airport.

The on airport hotel was needed on day one. The biggest flaw in my mind in the airport was the long distances to hotels. The airport hotels are such a long shuttle ride and annoying far away. This will be so nice to people who miss connections and have to overnight until the next morning. With three hubs there are so many people who get stuck in Denver on a daily basis.


User currently offlinejohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 865 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11660 times:

They have to make sure that they don't run into any of the secret subterranean rooms when they drive the pilings for the expansion.  

User currently offlinecmhsrq From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 989 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 11599 times:

It would be nice if they could tie the new train connections to the rental car lot and the Tower road hotels.


The voice of moderation
User currently offlinehi_flyer From Canada, joined Jul 2001, 53 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11329 times:

Does the train shed look a little short to anyone else? Given DEN's climate, I would think they'd put the whole length of the train under cover so that people don't have to go trudging through the snow.

User currently offlinedfwrevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 915 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 11165 times:

Quoting AG2006 (Thread starter):
DEN is about to begin a $500 million expansion. Project elements include a new train station (30 min travel time to downtown denver, service every 15 min), a plaza and a 500 room Westin hotel. Completion scheduled for 2015.

Santiago Calatrava was previously attached to this project. This was the original design, when Calatrava was the architect and the budget was $650 million. There was also to have been a signature rail bridge, but this element was cut.

So did the project actually cut $150 million out of the budget after parting ways with Calatrava? That sounds about right for the cost inflation attached with a Calatrava project.


User currently offlineDLDiamondboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10404 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 1):

There a lots of nice hotels 10 minutes down Pena Blvd in Aurora. Have stayed at them many times.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2634 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9344 times:

When this was announced a few weeks ago, one of the agreements between DEN and Calatrava was that...

DIA was allowed to keep the architect's basic plan but not those touches that define his work. Calatrava has built his worldwide reputation on a pointed, swanlike elegance and his trademark color of white.

The new design, as amended by two firms, Gensler and Anderson Mason Dale Architects, is dominated by clear glass rather than white steel.



http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_19763379

... and now, hello...... the bright, striking white is the color of the teflon roof and most of the other elements of the Jeppesen Terminal as well. And with that, it will be very difficult (in my personal opinion) to have the clear glass of the expansion phase harmonize with the bright white coloring of the Jeppesen Terminal. And how cleverly the visualization pictures of this are mostly shown at night, with blue lighting filling the whole project and making it look coordinated, or during the day with a snowstorm, where everything is white anyway, and it looks coordinated. And now on a normal day, I have a feeling that this whole thing is going to be looking quite disjointed with the clear glass instead of the Calatrava "trademark color of white" and by agreeing to not use "white" the DEN officials made a big mistake here. But that's just my   

Quoting johns624 (Reply 2):
They have to make sure that they don't run into any of the secret subterranean rooms when they drive the pilings for the expansion.

I think that the whole of the New World Order is just going to pack it up and leave here once they get a glimpse of the finished product.

And with that, here is a visual from Westword on the final product.....

Courtesy: Westword



and not really wanting to be the Debbie Downer here, but..... oy vey........

  

[Edited 2012-03-04 13:12:27]

User currently offlinetotesen From Mexico, joined Dec 2008, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9117 times:

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 5):
Santiago Calatrava was previously attached to this project. This was the original design, when Calatrava was the architect and the budget was $650 million. There was also to have been a signature rail bridge, but this element was cut.

without calatrava This project looses all of its hype. This is a great architect that would have built a marvel like T5 is at JFK, too bad that it is way more important to cut costs than to do something great. that is actually one of the worlds worst problems, they choose price over quality, and then quality becomes an overpriced product only viable for some   too bad we will not see this great building



Follow me on Twitter: www.twitter.com/totesen
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3067 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7512 times:

Quoting totesen (Reply 8):
without calatrava This project looses all of its hype. This is a great architect that would have built a marvel like T5 is at JFK, too bad that it is way more important to cut costs than to do something great. that is actually one of the worlds worst problems, they choose price over quality, and then quality becomes an overpriced product only viable for some too bad we will not see this great building

T5 isn't that marvelous, the new one. Are you talking about the new one? The Saarinen one is, of course, a 20th Century icon of architecture. The point in that redesign was to NOT mask the historic terminal.

I've mentioned this previously, but the Calatrava design was a complete insult to the excellent iconic image that the Jeppenson Terminal has. It was an archtitect rock-star's conceit to mask the terminal behind it, so that his design took precedence. I hated it. The redesign does little to help, it still masks the approach, though the clear glass is somewhat less masking. One can still see the peaked tents from the aircraft, or from the looping road approaching the arrivals or departures (and not the parking garage).

It's an airport, dammit, not a train station or Hyatt Hotel. Keep it that way.

-Rampart


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7385 times:
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Quoting rampart (Reply 9):
It's an airport, dammit, not a train station or Hyatt Hotel. Keep it that way.

Why can't it be all those things?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3067 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7089 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 10):
Why can't it be all those things?

It can, of course, and most major airports are. I'm just not happy with the grandiose design for the hotel and train station, particularly if it takes away from the design of the main reason for being, the airport side. That's just one grumpy guy's opinion, however.

-Rampart


User currently offlineAG2006 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6908 times:

Click on the renderings to see bigger images. Here are more renderings from Gensler (requires Adobe Flash):

http://www.gensler.com/#aboutus/news/pressreleases/112

This is from the press release (same link):

HOTEL AND CONFERENCE CENTER
The 500-key Westin hotel and conference center is a swooping form in glass and steel. The hotel design references and compliments the iconic form of the existing Jeppesen Terminal beyond. The saddle at the center of the hotel was designed to maintain sight lines to the terminal’s signature peaked roof. The hotel, which will have 14 floors, will include more than 500 guest rooms, a grand lobby with views to the mountains and runways, and a conference center for meetings, banquets, conventions and trade shows. The hotel will also include a full-service restaurant, full gym and indoor pool uniquely situated in the saddle of the building to maximize views.

PUBLIC TRANSIT CENTER
Open-air on its sides with a glass sheath above, the Public Transit Center services the new RTD East Rail Line connection to and from downtown Denver. That transparency allows the hall to be infused with natural light and with views out to the Denver landscape. Departing from the train, passengers can ride escalators either directly to Jeppesen Terminal or to Level 4 to potentially access added passenger and baggage check-in kiosks, as well as pass through a new prospective security checkpoint. The existing concourse passenger train and airport baggage systems will also be extended underneath the Public Transit Center, increasing operational capacity for both systems.

PUBLIC PLAZA
Elliptical in shape and connecting the new hotel and Public Transit Center to the existing Jeppesen Terminal, the 60,000-square-foot plaza will be a “place of energy” where passengers and visitors can find repose, entertainment and other non-airport functions. The glass and steel canopy from the Public Transit Center will extend towards Jeppesen Terminal providing both covered and uncovered areas for meeting and greeting, shopping, dining, and attending special events and attractions.

The hotel is scheduled to open in 2015, and the RTD East Rail Line will open in early 2016.

[Edited 2012-03-04 18:35:26]

[Edited 2012-03-04 18:38:19]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6798 times:
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Quoting rampart (Reply 11):
It can, of course, and most major airports are. I'm just not happy with the grandiose design for the hotel and train station, particularly if it takes away from the design of the main reason for being, the airport side.

I think there should be a hotel and I think there should be a train station and it becomes a functioning traveller's center rather than just an airport. The train station seems remarkably unobtrusive - to me - so I guess you mean the "wings" that are the hotel. I think they're fairly graceful and I guess any design for any hotel higher than two floors might impede the view of the terminal from at least one direction - unless it was all underground.

I hated I M Pei's glass pyramid at the Louvre - until I saw the real thing and then I was in awe of it. But each to their own, always.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12421 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6788 times:
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I rather like the hotel integrated into the airport. The issue is the guests start closing curtains and such and that will change the look from the outside...  
Quoting johns624 (Reply 2):

They have to make sure that they don't run into any of the secret subterranean rooms when they drive the pilings for the expansion.

This design looks like it could be adding rooms.  

I do wish this design fit in better with the rest of the airport. Oh well. At least the 'flying wing' hotel looks like it belongs at an airport.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlinedfwrevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 915 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6632 times:

Quoting totesen (Reply 8):
without calatrava This project looses all of its hype. This is a great architect that would have built a marvel like T5 is at JFK, too bad that it is way more important to cut costs than to do something great. that is actually one of the worlds worst problems, they choose price over quality, and then quality becomes an overpriced product only viable for some too bad we will not see this great building

Let me count the ridiculous statements.

1. "Hype" is somehow an ingredient for success
2. The only way to develop a visually-appealing structure is to hire a "rock star" architect known for adding huge price premiums to projects
3. That cost shouldn't be one of the primary factors for a public works project.
4. That when cost is occasionally considered important, it ranks as one of the world's "worst problems"

Sorry, I would rather live in the real world. Design something functional and stylish, but do it for a reasonable price and do it on schedule. There's plenty of tastefully-built airports where the local government didn't build some palatial monstrosity to impress comers and goers.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6499 times:

I'm sorry, Calatravia cookie cutters his "signature design" on every damn project. Its not original or unique, and honestly, its ugly.

The new design looks fine and cost a LOT less.

NS


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2634 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6484 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 9):
I've mentioned this previously, but the Calatrava design was a complete insult to the excellent iconic image that the Jeppenson Terminal has.
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
I do wish this design fit in better with the rest of the airport.

I managed to find an illustration of where the hotel was "supposed" to go when the first of the airport plans were available....




...... and of course, here, the hotel is much plainer and simpler, and is near the Jeppesen Terminal, but not in the way of the terminal, so the virtue of the Jeppesen is preserved here.

The overwhelming factor with the Calatrava design is that it was all in white..... and I think that it had a much better chance of enhancing the the better aspects of the Jeppesen Terminal. Now...... with it being clear glass......??



Quoting AG2006 (Reply 12):
Click on the renderings to see bigger images. Here are more renderings from Gensler (requires Adobe Flash):

http://www.gensler.com/#aboutus/news...s/112

All of the exterior illustrations are either at night, and filled with blue lighting, or the single illustration that's during the day also seems to be having a snow storm going on........ gee.......

I also believe that there isn't a train station with the original illustration, that would have to have been factored in here as well. But now, with the hotel and trains station due south of Jeppesen, if sometime in the future the airlines need more space in Jeppeson, where is it to expand?

Obviously, I guess that most can see that I have my reservations with this now.......

 

[Edited 2012-03-04 19:21:40]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6419 times:
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Quoting gigneil (Reply 16):
I'm sorry, Calatravia cookie cutters his "signature design" on every damn project. Its not original or unique, and honestly, its ugly.

I'm gob-smacked that anyone would describe the Milwaukee Art Museum as cookie cutter, or the glorious WYC Transit Hub in New York - and I am struggling to see much difference between the original Calatrava design for Denver and the present one.

http://trendsupdates.com/spanish-arc...-the-denver-international-airport/

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2634 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6351 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 18):
and I am struggling to see much difference between the original Calatrava design for Denver and the present one.

It's not so much in the design, it's in the coloring (exterior effect) that I think is the concern here.

And I also think that a lot of Calatrava's creations would also not be as effective if different exteriors would have been used.

 


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6287 times:
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Quoting point2point (Reply 19):
And I also think that a lot of Calatrava's creations would also not be as effective if different exteriors would have been used.

Surely they would not. If they were different exteriors they wouldn't be Calatrava designs.   

If you mean just the color, then who knows? Gehry's Bilbao Guggenheim is superb, but it might have been as wonderful with a metal other than titanium.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently onlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21098 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6270 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 17):
I managed to find an illustration of where the hotel was "supposed" to go when the first of the airport plans were available....

Would that they had actually put it there - you can't see the terminal anymore from the access roads. What's the point of having a special terminal if you can't see it.

It's going to become another TWA T5, and that's a shame.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3035 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6232 times:

Architecture aside, I see another issue with this plan.

Right now DEN has the ability to double its runways and gates. Would it have the corresponding ability to double its landside (ticketing/baggage claim) terminal if this new plan goes through? The most obvious way to expand the Jeppesen Terminal is southward in a linear fashion. The location of the hotel and train station pretty much eliminates this ability.

[Edited 2012-03-04 19:50:17]


FLYi
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2634 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6163 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
Surely they would not. If they were different exteriors they wouldn't be Calatrava designs.

I think that we're somehow agreeing here my friend.... could it be?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24638 posts, RR: 86
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6102 times:
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Quoting point2point (Reply 23):
I think that we're somehow agreeing here my friend.... could it be?

I don't think we are. I think it looks like the Calatrava concept - but call me when it is built and we see how the light plays on it.

And - just for fits and giggles - I looked up some of the almost overwhelming criticism of DIA when it was built. Here's just one - Frederico's Folly:

http://fumento.com/transport/specpena.html

Secretary of Transportation Federico Peña got his job by wasting $10 billion on the biggest public works disaster of modern times – an airport worse in every way than the one it replaced.

Nevertheless, there are those, such as Aviation Systems’ Boyd, who argues that Peña’s ability to sell a dog like Denver International is what made him such an ideal choice for the Clinton administration. Said Boyd, "It was built on promises that were never kept, and statistics that were totally inaccurate, and it will cost an enormous amount of money."


I bet none of those people are saying those things now.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 BOACCunard : I find it fascinating that Calatrava apparently was able to determine which elements "define his work" and which (like the shape of the building?!) w
26 AG2006 : I wrote to DEN with that comment and this is verbatum what they responded. Apparently, the underground train to the Concourses is being expanded sout
27 BD338 : Construction has already started. There is a massive excavation to the south of the terminal. Impressive stuff. I wonder when they will start on the
28 point2point : Well, DEN opened I believe in about March of 1995, and in April of 1995, was my first time through it arriving on a flight from NYC. I was absolutely
29 JayinKitsap : This is a 500 room hotel, I would think that DIA should have 5 or 6 this size. I think the original plan with the hotels off to the side of the entra
30 denverdanny : I'm glad they axed the bridge. It was too expensive and a waste of money. Well, our climate is actually pretty decent. Usually, the sun comes out the
31 NASCARAirforce : Or that the train will be used to haul in the prisoners when the New World Order goes into effect.
32 Post contains images point2point : I really want you to be correct here, and you can even say - I told you so - and would really like to hear it if somehow this whole thing isn't going
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