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DL/NW Vs UA/CO Mergers  
User currently offlineDTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 765 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11336 times:

Just read about the website/FF/Reservations issues the new UA is facing since the computer switchover the past couple of days.
This prompted me to compare the UA/CO merger with the DL/NW merger.

From what I remember, the new DL did not face any such IT issues when they switched over to the DL system. I do not remember any reservations beng lost or frequent flier miles missing. In fact when my Worldperks number switched over to the Skymiles number, only the last digit changed and an additional digit was added as the first one. Everything else between the 2 digits remained the same as my Worldperks number.

But in the case of the MileagePlus program, my membership number changed from all numerical to alpha-numerical. It is just a bit hard to remember a completely new number.

This is just one of the differences between the 2 mergers, there are a few more. I just feel that the DL/NW merger was more seamless than the UA/CO merger.

What do my fellow nutters think? What other differences are there from a customer point of view? Which merger was more easier for the customers to handle? Let us keep this healthy and not get involved in unnecessary bashing of DL and UA.

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1065 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11291 times:

Quoting DTWLAX (Thread starter):
This is just one of the differences between the 2 mergers, there are a few more. I just feel that the DL/NW merger was more seamless than the UA/CO merger.

I think it's important to bear in mind that DL/NW had been cooperating for some time before, and were using the same GDS.

As for the FF issues, I understand those are being resolved within 24hrs.


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5955 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11277 times:

Dont see why US/HP cant be added as well.


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 11122 times:

Quoting LOWS (Reply 1):
I think it's important to bear in mind that DL/NW had been cooperating for some time before, and were using the same GDS.

Well, UA/CO had been cooperating for some time before, too, but they weren't using the same GDS, and I think that makes a big difference.

But does anyone else remember that initially DL decided that NWA.com was going to be the surviving web site, and then backtracked and said it was keeping Delta.com because that transition would be too complicated? I think that's an interesting contrast to what UA decided.

But I think this was just bound to be a somewhat more complicated merger. While it's very unfortunate that people traveling this weekend are having issues, as long as all this is ironed out within a few days, I'll still consider it a success. (And I hope it is since I am flying UA on Saturday.   )



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2221 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10964 times:

DL/NW did appear to be more seamless in comparison, but that is just my humble opinion... seemed like branding at hubs, websites etc were alot more smooth. I flew threw Ohare in Oct and the gates were rebranded inside, but the jet bridges outside were not. Now I suppose the general public probably couldnt care less, but for an anutter like me I noticed that off the bat.

User currently offlineDTWLAX From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 765 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 10841 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 2):
Dont see why US/HP cant be added as well.

I think we all know how that has worked out. Better to keep that out and not compare with the others!


User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1065 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10760 times:

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 5):

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 2):
Dont see why US/HP cant be added as well.

I think we all know how that has worked out. Better to keep that out and not compare with the others!

Also, they are/were much smaller than UA/CO and DL/NW.


User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10699 times:

apples to oranges comparisons.... in the IT world nothing can be compared to each other. they all have aspects that make them unique. whether it is US/HP or DL/NW or CO/UA...
they are all different


User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 931 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 10595 times:
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Memories about the DL/NW merger are short! I flew both of them frequently during the transition, and trying to change your flight from a ticketed flight on one carrier to the other resulted in multiple phone transfers and frequent "we can't do that right now" responses. Often, you just went to the gate or ticket counter and asked them to punch the "override" button!

User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2480 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9987 times:

Quoting DTWLAX (Thread starter):

But in the case of the MileagePlus program, my membership number changed from all numerical to alpha-numerical. It is just a bit hard to remember a completely new number.
Quoting LOWS (Reply 1):

As for the FF issues, I understand those are being resolved within 24hrs.

My Mileage Plus number (the same since 1983) is no more, but I honestly couldn't care less. I used to think it was difficult to remember my original number until I got to typing it in repeatedly - it eventually got to the point where I had memorized my wife's number as well; I'm pretty sure I'll figure out the alphanumeric combo before long and in any case, you're given the opportunity to create your own login (no excuse there). FWIW, my information (FF profile, activity, itineraries, etc.) was loaded (accurately) as of this morning.

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlinedlphoenix From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 414 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9141 times:

Quoting DTWLAX (Thread starter):
What do my fellow nutters think? What other differences are there from a customer point of view? Which merger was more easier for the customers to handle? Let us keep this healthy and not get involved in unnecessary bashing of DL and UA.

Integrating computer systems is a piece of cake when you consider the integration of personnel groups with conflicting interests and huge egos.
DL did an outstanding job integrating their employee groups.
UA has yet to integrate a single group.

One data point regarding IT integration: I was on board a UA flight when integration started. By the time I landed my reservations were available on line including upgrade requests and my MP and Op miles were merged. The award booking engine is also working, something Delta claims it can not fix since the IT staff is busy with integration leftovers.

Happy travels
DLP


User currently offlinecruiseshipcrew From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 201 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9127 times:

My account transferred over just fine with about five reservations booked. Even one that I was "holding" for 24 hours switched over.


facebook sn jetboy787
User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8129 times:

My fiance's reservation from SFO-LIM was CANCELED, not LOST through the integration process.
CANCELED is a more severe word. Use only the most severe, don't make it light.
They probably won't care to, even if I am Premier Silver.
Also, ALL PREMIER SLIVERS (yes, intentional) are RE-DIRECTED to regular lines because our business is not good enough or not important enough to bother the elite desk.
Just my rant on the integration. 15 days is the MINIMUM time it will take them to get the issues resolved.



J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
User currently offlinevgnatl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1502 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7496 times:

For what it's worth, I haven't had any issues. That said, I am a CO elite so my number didn't change, but I have international reward travel (on CO miles) booked, and that wasn't affected--it was issued a new confirmation number as with all existing reservations, but everything is accurate. Profile information, balances, etc. are all correct.

It sounds like perhaps the issues are more from bringing the UA data into the the CO system? Possibly affecting PMUA folks more than PMCO?



Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7473 times:

The only negative I have experienced thus far is that one flight JFK-LAX tomorrow that was confirmed in C with an instrument has lost its seat assignment (9B) and is showing as booked in coach even though my fare basis (R) is an upgraded category.

We'll see what happens tomorrow.


User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 697 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 7053 times:

I am already not liking the new FF number. I had both DL and NW FF numbers. In the end, the DL survived and NW one disappeared.

BTW, Does the UA mileage expire any more? The new website doesn't show "expiration" date.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22303 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6994 times:

Quoting DTWLAX (Reply 5):
I think we all know how that has worked out.

On the IT side, pretty well. The transition to SHARES was rough for employees, but everything customer-facing worked reasonably smoothly.

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 8):
Memories about the DL/NW merger are short! I flew both of them frequently during the transition, and trying to change your flight from a ticketed flight on one carrier to the other resulted in multiple phone transfers and frequent "we can't do that right now" responses.

  

Also, they didn't sell each other's inventory for a long time. So if you wanted to fly STL-ATL-JAX and there were "NW seats" on the STL-ATL but no "DL seats" and "DL seats" on the ATL-JAX but no "NW seats," it wasn't bookable.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 6886 times:

DL/NW was definitely smoother and I feel like they tried a lot harder to let passengers know of what is going on via social media updates. Some other obvious wins over UA/CO was the website and reservation integration, getting new uniforms out ontime to NW staff, catering sychro, branding, etc.

There are some differences of course. DL made an effort to recover and add carpets to the NW fleet whereas UA has already stared quick installation of Economy Plus to the CO fleet.

The hub.united.com is too little too late as far as I'm concerned. They should have had this out on 10/1/10. Delta won with social media updates easily.

Plus I feel like Delta possessed an overall positive image during the merger -- sort of like a "We're working VERY hard to create new Delta and it's going to be a positive experience." Whereas what is coming out of Chicago is sort of something rather smug like "You're going to like the new United, we're going to be the best, but don't expect much in the near future as it's EXTREMELY hard work to merge an airline. Do you know how HARD it is??"

Delta I think worked just a wee bit harder to get things done than United has.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinedelta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6220 times:

I know people on the transition team and if things get messed up, it sure isn't from lack of trying on their part. They are working very hard to get things smoothly integrated. Unfortunately, there will be bumps in the road, especially considering the size of the 2 companies. To me, the real test will be getting joint contracts. That's gonna be difficult without costing a lot of money.
Ás for DL/NW, I can't find the article right now, but more than one analyst has called it the smoothest merger in airline history. I've personally been through 2-and they aren't easy.



From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
User currently offlinenyc2theworld From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 662 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 6112 times:

This has been mentioned before, DL had to work quickly to create a "new" Delta. How long after bankruptcy did DL and NW merge? DL could go to both employee groups "old Delta and old NW" and say "We've both been through bankruptcy but now we can work together to make the new DL better than what NW could have been by itself, and better than what DL could have been by itself."

United and Continental are not coming from that position. In fact, Smisek said that that this merger would have a different look/feel/timeframe than previous airline mergers. They are merging to fundamentally strong companies to make a larger, stronger company. That's a lot harder to convince people to do than if your company is in bankruptcy and you might loose your job.

So yes, DL had to create a "We're working very hard to create a better Delta" because in the media they were almost down for the count with other airlines acting like vultures making hostile bids against them.

UA/CO had to play it slow and ease their stakeholders into a new airline. PSS is a major step, but its just a step. Now we'll probably see action happen on getting employee groups on single contracts and eventually a reformatted website.

At 10/1/10 they had unitedcontinentalholings.com where they were posting all merger updates, and had links from the home page of continental.com and united.com talking about merger updates. So they had a merger hub, just in a different form.

I think the tone coming out of Chicago is more realistic than idealistic.



Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9963 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5951 times:

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 19):
they were almost down for the count with other airlines acting like vultures making hostile bids against them.

ONE airline?

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 19):
How long after bankruptcy did DL and NW merge?

The original announcement was made about a year after DL emerged from BK.

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 19):
They are merging to fundamentally strong companies to make a larger, stronger company.

Don't know how "strong" UA was at the time THEY announced, but I know most of the employees were NOT happy with Glenn Tilton, at the time.

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 19):
That's a lot harder to convince people to do than if your company is in bankruptcy and you might loose your job.

But, neither DL nor NW was in BK at the time of the merger, so your argument doesn't hold water.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9963 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5934 times:

Quoting delta2ual (Reply 18):
Ás for DL/NW, I can't find the article right now, but more than one analyst has called it the smoothest merger in airline history. I've personally been through 2-and they aren't easy.

I think that perhaps that analyst isn't considering the DL/WA merger, which, in all honesty was smaller, but very smooth, in my memory. The DL/NW merger may have been relatively smooth, but the representation elections and the subsequent investigation of the elections by the NMB, put several large bumps in the road before that was settled. Nothing like that in the DL/WA merger except for a "union/no union" glitch on the first day.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinenyc2theworld From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 662 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5780 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 20):
ONE airline?

Even if its one airline, please tell me in what industry is a hostile takeover attempted looked at as a good thing for the company that's trying to be bought.

Quoting mayor (Reply 20):
Don't know how "strong" UA was at the time THEY announced, but I know most of the employees were NOT happy with Glenn Tilton, at the time.

Nobody is ever happy with someone who has to make the hard decisions, but the matter of the fact it, they SURVIVED the most complex and longest bankruptcy in corporate history. The financial performance however was quite good at the time of the merger announcement and has been since.

The point is that DL and NW were both coming from low points (a BK) and had to rebuild support amongst all their stakeholders. CO and UA were not in that situation. That makes the UA CO merger a lot different from the NW DL merger.



Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
User currently onlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 871 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 22):

The point is that DL and NW were both coming from low points (a BK) and had to rebuild support amongst all their stakeholders. CO and UA were not in that situation. That makes the UA CO merger a lot different from the NW DL merger.

How does that change UA's situation? There was a sizeable difference in brand perception between UA and CO. Thank goodness they kept the CO branding. Still not the same company, though, and never will be. Got to be based on Smith Street for that to happen. Moving to Chicago changed things for a lot of people.


User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9963 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5367 times:

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 22):
That makes the UA CO merger a lot different from the NW DL merger.

And quite frankly, considering how smoothly the DL/NW merger has gone, despite any drawbacks, even more of an accomplishment than UA/CO, wouldn't you agree?

Quoting nyc2theworld (Reply 22):
Even if its one airline, please tell me in what industry is a hostile takeover attempted looked at as a good thing for the company that's trying to be bought.

None....however, I was just pointing out that, when you stated "AIRLINES" were hanging about like vultures with hostile takeover bids, that just wasn't true and, actually, I don't think that US had a snowball's chance in hell of getting their bid accepted, either.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
25 nyc2theworld : Its a lot harder to convince certain stakeholders that you need a merger when you are financially strong than if you aren't (i.e. DL/NW). Its easier
26 TOMMY767 : A lot of behind the scenes little things that you don't see much of in the branding. DL took a lot from NW... Uh what? You've got to be kidding. Kill
27 nyc2theworld : I didn't ask about behind the scenes. I asked about branding which is customer facing. DL did not keep any NW branding like UA did with CO. Merging b
28 superjeff : NW and DL were both using the same computer system - Worldspan. UA was on Apollo and CO on HP's Shares. So there was a major change in computer syste
29 TOMMY767 : UA didn't take any branding from the PMUA except for the name. Even the prehistoric ex-continental website is barely branded United.
30 Cubsrule : And yet, DL/NW had teething issues. Perhaps the issue is expectations. No one should expert a merger of this magnitude to go perfectly smoothly.
31 mayor : And, in doing so, ended up with one of the homliest and plainest liveries out there. Don't get me wrong.....I liked the Continental livery, but when
32 Post contains images nyc2theworld : Incorrect, company name and Frequent Flyer Program name were taken from PMUA. Status levels were a mix of PMUA (1K and Global Services) but mostly PM
33 delta2ual : That is true. I wasn't there for that, but I'd heard that it was a very smooth merger. I can't speak for NW people, but at DL we were out of BK and d
34 nyc2theworld : A brand identity is more than just a logo. And I've given multiple examples of which PMUA brands were used, and PMCO brands were used. Delta couldn't
35 Post contains images CODC10 : Such as? You're right, DL took a lot from NW... in fact, everything! It was a fundamentally different transaction and DL treated the integration as s
36 Post contains images TOMMY767 : There is no way that ex-NWA elites made nearly as much of a fuss as the UA/CO elite dilemma. There are several reasons for this: 1. Living in fortres
37 Post contains images CODC10 : Then you just weren't paying attention, or have an incredibly short memory. Hence my use of 'competitive markets'. Every airline tries its best to go
38 apodino : Off Topic a bit, but why is it that both UA and US use SHARES, but yet UA employees are given access to and even encouraged to use native SHARES, whil
39 Post contains images EWRCabincrew : Their employees.
40 mayor : DL was ALREADY changing their brand, BEFORE the merger. Should they have scrapped that and completely changed, again? How foolish would that be?
41 nyc2theworld : And what about EWR, IAH, DEN, SFO and CLE? Are those not fortress hubs? That's the difference. CO and UA were strong brands on their own. OnePass one
42 TOMMY767 : OnePass was a leftover brand from Eastern Airlines. Not a strong brand at all compared to Mileage Plus and I don't think CO won any awards for OnePas
43 mayor : Lets see......with the C&S merger, they became Delta/C&S for two years and then became Delta, again.......with the NE merger, it was all DL..
44 TOMMY767 : It's been rumored on here before that was the case.
45 Post contains links RobertS975 : The current Delta Air Lines has several dozen "progenitor" airlines in its family tree... Boston & Maine Airways, Pacific Northern, Chicago &
46 mayor : Aye, there's the rub....it was a "rumor". Were there ANY facts to back it up? I never saw or heard of any.
47 EWRCabincrew : There was a smiley face after what I wrote, noting sarcasm. Chalk it up to lost in translation.
48 delta2ual : Actually, NW had a very strong brand in Asia; especially with tour operators. I wouldn't even call EWR a true fortress hub; you have JFK & LGA ri
49 TOMMY767 : Yeah PMCO flyers love to complain, but they'd never cheat on CO with DL out of LGA or JFK Love that family tree! I also like how the Delta Heritage M
50 nyc2theworld : Yet EWR has the highest average domestic fare in the nation DESPITE JFK and LGA right next door. Which means of the customers EWR serves (which accor
51 BCEaglesCO757 : Yet,unlike JFK/LGA, we can get you to almost any city in the country in one stop at EWR from most places in Europe,Asia, and the Middle East. Ditto f
52 mayor : Seems like you did your best to continue the conversation, which, really, had nothing to do with the original subject, which was the difference betwe
53 aa757first : IAH is definitely a fortress hub, with about 80% of traffic being UA. But there's a lot of domestic competition from WN over at HOU. EWR is also a do
54 mayor : Don't forget ATL......no competitive airports nearby and what percentage does DL control, there? 75%-85% ?
55 gigneil : I mean, at SFO United controls 44% of the seats from SFO and the next largest carrier carries 8. Also there are only 13 domestic carriers there but 28
56 slcdeltarumd11 : Denver is probably as far from a fortress hub as you can get.
57 delta2ual : What I meant was anyone living in the NYC area could use JFK or LGA if they didn't want to uses EWR for any reason (high fares, anti-UA, whatever). T
58 nyc2theworld : Except EWR and LGA/JFK serve what could be considered two distinct markets. EWR draws very little of its O&D from NYC according to the PANYNJ and
59 CODC10 : Infamous because of its questionable methodology and distinction as the only such report publicly available.
60 gigneil : Would love to see those numbers. NS
61 Post contains images nyc2theworld : I know, thus the reasoning for the word infamous.
62 Post contains links CODC10 : As I recall, the persons surveyed were disproportionately leisure travelers and the sample size was less than 1000, rather small to be considered def
63 DTWLAX : This is a thread comparing the issues that surfaced during the 2 mergers. Please do not turn it into a JFK vs EWR thread!
64 burnsie28 : I will add to this, there are a lot of ex NW people at DL, many are top contributors to areas such as ACS, Flight Operations, meteorology. Much of th
65 adambrau : I flew EWR-MIA-DCA (AA)-DEN-DFW-IAH-LAX-IAH-EWR 3/4-3/8 with 9 bags each segment and I have to say everything went smoothly. No delays, a few calls to
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