apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3634 posts, RR: 6 Posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4471 times:
Well, the news just keeps getting worse for Pinnacle Air Group. The FAA is now slapping a fine on them due to numerous crew rest violations that occured in 08 and 09. The funny thing about these is notice that the date at the end of the period in question corresponds to the BUF crash?
While I don't think the fine is really financially significant, this is another black eye for the regional industry and will hurt them in that way more than anything monetarily. Although Pinnacle is near bankruptcy so they certainly didn't need this.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19689 posts, RR: 56 Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4312 times:
Quoting apodino (Thread starter): While I don't think the fine is really financially significant, this is another black eye for the regional industry and will hurt them in that way more than anything monetarily.
If people find out about it. I haven't seen any major news about this - the only time the general public hears of these things is after an accident ("the airline was fined for [infraction] back in [year]" or something like that). I wish the fine had been more - it's pretty hard to accidentally screw up the one day off out of seven rule.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
futureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2561 posts, RR: 9 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4029 times:
Quoting Mir (Reply 1): I wish the fine had been more - it's pretty hard to accidentally screw up the one day off out of seven rule.
One would think, but prior the JCBA it wasn't uncommon for a crewmember to bid for 4 day trips, be extended/junior manned into days 5 and 6, then be given 24hrs off in a hotel somewhere before heading back out on the road for another 5 or 6 days for a few weeks on end. During the 5 or 6 days on, your sleep schedule would be constantly messed with, you'd end up getting 16hr duty days and reduced rest overnights. I can see how this would have been missed by a pilot. I do agree that it should have been caught, but it is possible to miss, especially when you're on your 3rd week away from home having had 3 "days" off since the last time you slept in your own bed.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19689 posts, RR: 56 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3894 times:
Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 2): I can see how this would have been missed by a pilot.
So can I. What I can't see is how it can be missed by the scheduling department, sitting behind their desks with plenty of rest and the aid of computer programs.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
futureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2561 posts, RR: 9 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3705 times:
Quoting Mir (Reply 3): So can I. What I can't see is how it can be missed by the scheduling department, sitting behind their desks with plenty of rest and the aid of computer programs.
In a perfect world, you'd be spot on. No reason for the mistake. In a past life it was commonplace to "move the rig." Things were different. Not saying it was right, because it wasn't, but the attitude was different in SOC. Thankfully the mentality and culture have changed for the better. Now if only the company could stay afloat.
dashman From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 66 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1278 times:
Not surprising this might happen. When you combine scheduling crews very near limits and FAA rest regs that read much like a Net Flix radio commercial this is bound to happen. It is interesting that there is no mention of fines or certificate action against the crew members involved. The way the regs read a crew member is not permitted to accept an illegal assignment even if crew scheduling creates it.
Seems like the FAA is doing a little CYA because their oversight didn't catch it back in 08 and 09 .
apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3634 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1203 times:
Quoting dashman (Reply 6): The way the regs read a crew member is not permitted to accept an illegal assignment even if crew scheduling creates it.
The problem with this is that when a crewmember calls scheduling out on it, crew scheduling will usually crunch numbers and tell the crew member that their trip is legal, and if they refuse it they will get the Chief Pilot involved. I have seen it happen too many times. This is not right.
dashman From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 66 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 843 times:
If its legal it's legal. If its not then the CP can lean on you all he wants. If you accept it your wrong and you will have to answer for it in another venue. I believe they call it pilot pushing. Airlines been doing for years. The solution is simple, know your regs, dig your heels in when you are right. I really can't think in recent memory where a crew member was fired for being in compliance with the regs. You can bet your bottom dollar it is going to be a very tense conversation with the CP. I agree it is not right.
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