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Delta Returns Seven Brazil Frequencies To DOT  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32179 posts, RR: 72
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 13150 times:

Delta has returned seven Brazil frequencies to DOT. It was recently awarded the frequencies to begin daily service (again) to Manaus, Brazil. It has cancelled such plans.

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http://airlineinfo.com/ost14/ost030912.html#delta3912


a.
59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 12832 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Delta has returned seven Brazil frequencies to DOT. It was recently awarded the frequencies to begin daily service (again) to Manaus, Brazil. It has cancelled such plans.

Seem to be going quite well with GOL as far as connections although I don't see people back-tracking like that. FWIW, quite a few of their bags on the BSB flight has onward connections on G3; as well as many of the other flights to Brazil so I guess the interline will have to do.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12312 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):

hmm how long till G3 starts the route?   



yep.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32179 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12278 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 2):

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):

hmm how long till G3 starts the route?   


G3 has no intention of flying MAO-U.S. It has filed papers to fly to Miami via Caracas.

Then again, if G3 wants to lose its shirts flying MAOMIA and competing with AA/JJ instead of having a monopoly on MIABEL, they should go ahead. It has filed for 14 Miami frequencies; but putting those other seven from Manaus is a recipe for disaster.

[Edited 2012-03-09 19:57:29]


a.
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1268 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11883 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
instead of having a monopoly on MIABEL

Is G3 starting BEL-MIA?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32179 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11667 times:

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 4):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
instead of having a monopoly on MIABEL

Is G3 starting BEL-MIA?


It has not been announced, but it is rumored that G3 will be launching MIABEL and MIACCS later this year.



a.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3652 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11494 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
It has filed papers to fly to Miami via Caracas.

Before the INAC? I ask because there was nothing before the ANAC, only frequencies without services attached to.


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2428 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8261 times:

Those 7 DOT frequencies to Brazil are worth something for other U.S. airlines?
Are those limited to airports not GRU or GIG?
Hear AA wanted MIA-VCP but Brazil has restricted VCP to U.S. airlines until next year.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3652 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7732 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 7):
Those 7 DOT frequencies to Brazil are worth something for other U.S. airlines?

No, there are plenty frequencies available.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 7):
Are those limited to airports not GRU or GIG?

Six of them are non-SAO and non-RIO. The seventh is non-SAO only.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 7):
Hear AA wanted MIA-VCP but Brazil has restricted VCP to U.S. airlines until next year.

AA has plenty of frequencies to start frequencies to anywhere in Brazil including GRU. The frequencies used on the MIA-GIG service are unrestricted, so they could shift them to GRU or VCP and apply for more and continue MIA-GIG without interruption.


User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6805 times:

I'm still waiting for POA-US service and also DL CNF-ATL service. Can we exepct any of these to be announced shortly? I believe a DL CNF service on a 757 could lower fares and meet demand. Maybe DL could go 3-4x on low peak season and 7x on high peak

User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3652 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6780 times:

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 9):
Can we exepct any of these to be announced shortly?

If DL is returning frequencies, it means that they were not planning to redeploy them anywhere in their system.

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 9):
I believe a DL CNF service on a 757 could lower fares and meet demand.

I don't think a 752 would reach CNF from ATL.


User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1436 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 6764 times:

With DL making route decisions AMS-MEM, Brazil slots etc. I wonder if they are finally going to give up the HND slots this time around?

User currently offlinetsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6426 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 8):
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 7):
Those 7 DOT frequencies to Brazil are worth something for other U.S. airlines?

No, there are plenty frequencies available.

I wonder if the "new UA" might be interested to give some secondary cities in Brazil a shot from IAH? CO used to fly to CNF from EWR... perhaps MAO or BSB from IAH or even REC or SSA .. not sure a 752.would be able to handle that trip from there? With the new combined size I would think additional Brazilian cities might be on the radar ...


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3277 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6345 times:

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 12):
I wonder if the "new UA" might be interested to give some secondary cities in Brazil a shot from IAH? CO used to fly to CNF from EWR... perhaps MAO or BSB from IAH or even REC or SSA .. not sure a 752.would be able to handle that trip from there? With the new combined size I would think additional Brazilian cities might be on the radar ...

Only IAH-MAO is possible (could do it with a 738) but all the rest are 4,400nm+



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1483 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6324 times:

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 12):

I wonder if the "new UA" might be interested to give some secondary cities in Brazil a shot from IAH? CO used to fly to CNF from EWR... perhaps MAO or BSB from IAH or even REC or SSA .. not sure a 752.would be able to handle that trip from there? With the new combined size I would think additional Brazilian cities might be on the radar ...

I would be surprised as IAH is not a well-located hub for East Coast - Brazil traffic flows compared to ATL (look how well these cities worked from there) and especially MIA.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=nyc-iah-rec

I highly suspect that demand for these secondary Brazilian cities is East Coast focused, especially South Florida.


User currently offlineSR117 From Mexico, joined Jun 2000, 793 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6302 times:

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 11):
With DL making route decisions AMS-MEM, Brazil slots etc. I wonder if they are finally going to give up the HND slots this time around?

DTW is coming back in April, and LAX has been doing pretty well lately.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9081 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6171 times:

Quoting Mcdu (Reply 11):
I wonder if they are finally going to give up the HND slots this time around?

Um, really? What does Brazil have to do with Japan?

and PS Delta will be flying both of its HND routes this summer.



yep.
User currently offlineskymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6135 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 16):
Um, really? What does Brazil have to do with Japan?


Quite a large (and mobile) Japanese/Japanese descended population in Brasil .. I worked with several many years ago at Trans-Brasil.



I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3652 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 6068 times:

Quoting nickofatlanta (Reply 14):
I highly suspect that demand for these secondary Brazilian cities is East Coast focused, especially South Florida.

That's exactly it. IAH not a good alternative for the East Coast. UA's success in the Southern Cone depends on how they are going to develop EWR. EWR-GIG is a no-brainer anc could be started tomorrow if they wanted to. CNF is the next step in three to four years. Much later in the decade, starting the next one, BSB and POA could come online, but I don't see alternatives for IAH beyond upgauges to GIG and GRU.


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4339 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5938 times:

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 9):
DL CNF service on a 757 could lower fares and meet demand. Maybe DL could go 3-4x on low peak season and 7x on high peak

I have my doubts about any sustainable venture of DL in some secondary cities in Brazil, just analyzing what happened at MAO, FOR and REC.




.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 10):
don't think a 752 would reach CNF from ATL.

Well, ATL-CNF is only 7% farther than ATL-BSB following strictly a straight line and according to the Great Circle Mapper.

ATL-BSB: 3623 nm
ATL-CNF: 3938 nm

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5828 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 19):
I have my doubts about any sustainable venture of DL in some secondary cities in Brazil, just analyzing what happened at MAO, FOR and REC.

Fares are extremely high on MIA-CNF, so I think the demand is there. Minas Gerais, where CNF is located, is the state that grows the most in Brazil. I believe even a 763 would work, specially when it has a better product that the AA 763


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32179 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5796 times:

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 20):
Fares are extremely high on MIA-CNF, so I think the demand is there. Minas Gerais, where CNF is located, is the state that grows the most in Brazil. I believe even a 763 would work, specially when it has a better product that the AA 763

More than half of U.S.-CNF demand is to Florida (close to 60%, actually). That market isn't going to overfly to Atlanta because the product might be better, especially since most of Delta's 763 fleet is configured with recliners in business and a worse product in the first place.

The frequencies Delta are returning are freely transferable to anywhere but GRU and, some, GIG. So if Delta had plans to go to CNF, FOR, or whatever, it would not have been returning them.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 6):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
It has filed papers to fly to Miami via Caracas.

Before the INAC? I ask because there was nothing before the ANAC, only frequencies without services attached to.

Not that I know of, but pretty easy to put two and two together here. It's just a question of whether Gol gives the final go for U.S. flights, in which case it will undeniably be MIA-CCS-XXX.



a.
User currently offlineCNForever From Brazil, joined Apr 2011, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
More than half of U.S.-CNF demand is to Florida (close to 60%, actually). That market isn't going to overfly to Atlanta because the product might be better, especially since most of Delta's 763 fleet is configured with recliners in business and a worse product in the first place.

Do you think that would be viable, a CNF-NYC flight with AA ?? And if so when it would be ?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32179 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5767 times:

Quoting CNForever (Reply 22):
Do you think that would be viable, a CNF-NYC flight with AA ?? And if so when it would be ?

When AA emerges from BK with a much lower cost structure, yes, I think CNFJFK, 3w 763 could show promise.



a.
User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5759 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
More than half of U.S.-CNF demand is to Florida (close to 60%, actually). That market isn't going to overfly to Atlanta because the product might be better, especially since most of Delta's 763 fleet is configured with recliners in business and a worse product in the first place.

I have not flown DL international lately, but I thought they had done some cabin updates with Premium Economy and lie flat business class seats. I suspect they have PTVs too in Coach?

Do you know how DL GRU flights are doing?

I flew DL ATL-MCO this last friday, the flights were packed with Brazilians, I assume going to disney / universal parks LOL. To me ATL is not that far north where vacation travelers would mind paying a cheaper fare for not too longer routes.

Just from conversation with travelers, I have notice that they are starting to explore more of the US than just NY and FL. Vegas seems to be in high demand and so is California.


25 CNForever : Thanks for your response. It would be very good. AA has many loyal customers in Minas Gerais and this flight IMHO would be a winner.
26 MAH4546 : The 763s are being renovated, but most still have the old business class cabins and no PTVs. The process will go well into 2013 before renovations ar
27 C010T3 : Yes, but ATL-BSB is so borderline viable that I think ATL-CNF won't fly. And VCP! Yes, I did that way before you, but that's not the question. You me
28 Acheron : Wouldn't surprise me. Gol already does XXX-CCS-PUJ under the Varig brand. And Lan does XXX-CCS-MIA.
29 SJOtoLIR : G3 GRU-CCS-AUA; 2x weekly G3 GRU-CCS-PUJ; 5x weekly Regards.
30 panamair : DL has been using the 764ERs on both GRU-ATL and GRU-JFK this winter and will continue with them during the "northern" summer; these have flat-bed J
31 MAH4546 : AA is currently interested in MIACWB and MIAPOA. No plans for MIAVCP.
32 FlyASAGuy2005 : It's usually closer to 3800 but a 757 wouldn't make sense to CNF. ATLBSB is extremely weight restricted as it is. Very much so. Some days it does oka
33 LipeGIG : I don't expect anything new. Seems airlines are upgrading/upgauging current services and will continue to do it for a while: DL 764 on JFK-GRU (use to
34 N1120A : No, it wouldn't. That 7% is huge, especially since ATL-BSB is already a stretch.
35 2travel2know2 : ATL is ATL but it really seems of little use for Brazilian routes outside SAO and RIO since the major O/D markets for Brazilans in the U.S. are South
36 bjorn14 : That route should be no. 1 on the list imho, since GRU is slot restricted
37 C010T3 : Why should it? If not even LGW is able to sustain service to NYC, why should VCP to MIA?
38 ROSWELL41 : Perhaps it is time for NK to start FLL-MAO. I've heard it rumored in the past.
39 C010T3 : It was not a rumour. NK actually applied for it, but withdrew later.
40 Rafabozzolla : But the price sensitive public will do it, I think. Even taking into consideration the horrible departure and arrival times and their inferior produc
41 2travel2know2 : Because VCP has a real catchment area of its own? Moreover, the day UA (most likely) comes with a red-eyes B757 LON-EWR flight it'll have to be out o
42 C010T3 : Nad you're saying that LGW doesn't? Exactly, VCP is way behind.
43 aviationbuff08 : Well once DL has all the 763 interior reconfigured, it most certainly will have a better onboard product than AA. Considering DL already does capture
44 SJOtoLIR : UA IAH-GIG 7x weekly is served with 764 nowadays That route would be up-gauged till October 28th from 764 to 772. It will be delayed since it was ann
45 C010T3 : It's actually 6x weekly 764, 1x weekly 77E.
46 MAH4546 : Except AA is already rolling out its new product starting in the fall. Delta's marketshare on South Florida-Brazil is near non-existent.
47 aviationbuff08 : You are under estimating these numbers, I see a good amount of South Florida-Brazil traffic in ATL daily.
48 MAH4546 : I'm not underestimating anything. I have access to marketshare numbers. I'm using facts, not anecdotes. On the average day, Delta carries two FLL-Bra
49 DeltaL1011man : And Delta has ~50 done already....so AA will be nicely behind DL.
50 C010T3 : By the way, how is CLT-GIG doing in terms of PDEW?
51 MAH4546 : ~8 PDEW. But AA uses this amazing idea foreign to DL: it quickly rolls out new premium products. When it announces a new premium product, it rolls it
52 Post contains images DeltaL1011man : AA wont be rolling anything out any faster than what Delta is doing. I would be willing to bet that AA doesn't have the slack in the fleet to put any
53 MAH4546 : I'm willing to bet it absolutely does. AA will take delivery of 10 777-300ERs in a span of fourteenth months starting this fall. There's your slack.
54 C010T3 : That's amazing! Thank you for the info!
55 FlyASAGuy2005 : DL seems to content with forwarding said pax on G3. Quite a few of the folks on ATLBSB continue to other markets on G3. IDK. It's already daily but I
56 Post contains images DeltaL1011man : lol. So 10 A/c cool story bro you just went from 3 ac a month to 3.5. which is still longer than a year for the 772 fleet. (plus the 50+ 767s your st
57 jonathanxxxx : I assume this is because FLL doesn't have any non-stops to Brazil and barely any normal connecting options right? If an airline were to start service
58 MAH4546 : The local market is all of Aouth Florida. It would not likely stimulate; traffic that uses MIA would simple move to FLL. Like with Miami-Frankfurt la
59 MAH4546 : Let's do math. AA has 47 772s. If it does 4 a month, which is extremely realistic, and starts in October 2012, it will be done by October 2013. The 7
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