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AA JFK Vs. LGA  
User currently offlinedirtyfrankd From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 196 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4460 times:

One thing that has never made much sense to me is how little feed there is into JFK from DFW and ORD, the majority of the DFW and ORD originating flights go into LGA. IIRC, there are quite a few international destinations in AA's network that are only served from JFK (ZRH, BCN until April, and others?). If you look at Delta, they have a lot of flights between JFK and ATL as well as LGA and ATL. United has a lot of flights between LGA and ORD as well as EWR and ORD.

So why is it that AA has mainly flights between LGA and DFW/ORD and only one flight a day between JFK and DFW/ORD?

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3627 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4324 times:

DL has 16+ flights a day to LGA, 5 to JFK from ATL

UA only serves EWR with such high freq because it is hub to hub. They serve LGA with high freq because they have to if they want to be in the NYC business market


Short haul, high freq routes go to LGA in NYC. JFK can not touch that.

Now, AA has always had very little domestic (within LGA perimeter) flying into JFK, and DL has always had a more. Meaning DL was always willing to serve JFK with descent freq from cities within the LGA perimeter (Not LGA freq, but still good freq)

I don't know what is the correct method, but AA has had trouble making $$ period. And with all the starting and ending routes out of JFK and LGA on both mainline and Eagle, it would seem that AA doesn't have a clear, comprehensive strategy in the NYC cornerstone.

Why low freq between DFW/ORD and JFK hubs? Because AA says so


User currently offlineTan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4033 times:

well, you could ask the question why did TWA and PanAm have limited frequency to JFK..it was to feed a bank of European bound flight plaine and simple. While I did not take teh time to look at every AA JFK departure, I would bet that most are based on known traffic patterns to either Europe, Caribbean or LAtin America.

Otherwise LGA is you best bet in town..also AA has decent Europe flight from ORD and some from DFW..so plenty of traffic can flow thru those hubs.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8503 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3537 times:
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Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 2):
well, you could ask the question why did TWA and PanAm have limited frequency to JFK..it was to feed a bank of European bound flight plaine and simple. While I did not take teh time to look at every AA JFK departure, I would bet that most are based on known traffic patterns to either Europe, Caribbean or LAtin America.

Otherwise LGA is you best bet in town..also AA has decent Europe flight from ORD and some from DFW..so plenty of traffic can flow thru those hubs.

AA is not trying to be Delta, TWA or Pan AM at JFK. Its flying to cities which can be done from O & D traffic with feed from Jetblue and Amerucan Eagle. While ORD & DFW don't fed JFK, miami does.


User currently offlinedirtyfrankd From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3377 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):

UA only serves EWR with such high freq because it is hub to hub. They serve LGA with high freq because they have to if they want to be in the NYC business market


Well for AA, DFW/JFK and ORD/JFK would be hub to hub as well...


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2463 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):
UA only serves EWR with such high freq because it is hub to hub.

UA served EWR-ORD with high frequency long before the CO merger. Believe it or not, there actually is some business traffic between EWR and Chicago...  


User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2935 times:

Because O&D traffic overwhelmingly wants LGA or EWR, not JFK.

As far as connections, bear in mind that it is quite possible to fly e.g. DFW-LHR-ZRH, there is not any particular reason someone would want or need to fly DFW-JFK-ZRH.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 972 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 6):
As far as connections, bear in mind that it is quite possible to fly e.g. DFW-LHR-ZRH, there is not any particular reason someone would want or need to fly DFW-JFK-ZRH.

True, unless someone wants to fly AA all the way and not AA/BA.

Funny, as I tried to book an award ticket to NRT, instead of non-stop ORD-NRT they tried to send me ORD-LGA/JFK-NRT.
If anyone ever tried to get from LGA to JFK in rush hours traffic? Not for me.


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4593 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 5):
Believe it or not, there actually is some business traffic between EWR and Chicago...

Yes, mostly run on RJs these days. 


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3996 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2778 times:
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Quoting WROORD (Reply 7):
True, unless someone wants to fly AA all the way and not AA/BA.

Some travelers hate to transit in LHR because of the heavy passenger traffic and having to re clear security upon changing terminal, as transiting in JFK with AA is now hassle free. I personally don't mind transiting in LHR as long as I have at least a good two-hour layover.

I would understand why one would prefer to fly on AA metal back in the days when an AAdvantage member wouldn't be able to get miles on BA TATL flights (presuming the DFW-LHR flight would be booked for an AAdvantage member on BA metal) but now that AA and BA have an ATI agreement, you can get AAdvantage miles either way.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlinedirtyfrankd From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2497 times:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 9):
I would understand why one would prefer to fly on AA metal back in the days when an AAdvantage member wouldn't be able to get miles on BA TATL flights (presuming the DFW-LHR flight would be booked for an AAdvantage member on BA metal) but now that AA and BA have an ATI agreement, you can get AAdvantage miles either way.

Don't forget that for Executive Platinum Customers, Systemwide Upgrades can only be used on AA metal, which is another big reason to want to fly on AA metal. In the ZRH example it doesn't really matter too much since LHR to ZRH is a relatively short flight, but if AA starts flying ULH destinations out of JFK, a lot of their customers would rather be on AA metal rather than flying on a codeshare partner, mainly due to the systemwides.


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2463 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 8):
Yes, mostly run on RJs these days.

Mostly? 4 out of 15 daily EWR-ORD UA flights (6am, 12:05pm, 1:00pm, 3:01pm) are E-170s with E+ and First Class. The other 11 flights are A319/320s and 737s.

Even prior to the merger, both airlines ran predominantly mainline schedules EWR-ORD. I was responding to the comment regarding UA, not American, who has substantially conceded this market to UA.


User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4593 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2378 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 11):
Mostly? 4 out of 15 daily EWR-ORD UA flights (6am, 12:05pm, 1:00pm, 3:01pm) are E-170s with E+ and First Class. The other 11 flights are A319/320s and 737s.

Even prior to the merger, both airlines ran predominantly mainline schedules EWR-ORD. I was responding to the comment regarding UA, not American, who has substantially conceded this market to UA.

I was referring to EWR as a whole.


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3996 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2247 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 10):
Don't forget that for Executive Platinum Customers, Systemwide Upgrades can only be used on AA metal, which is another big reason to want to fly on AA metal. In the ZRH example it doesn't really matter too much since LHR to ZRH is a relatively short flight, but if AA starts flying ULH destinations out of JFK, a lot of their customers would rather be on AA metal rather than flying on a codeshare partner, mainly due to the systemwides.

Yes my parents recently had the same problem. They flew from MIA to Delhi, connecting on BA in LHR. They both became Executive PlAAtinums so they were going to use the system wide upgrades all the way but American axed the ORD-Delhi flight. So they could fly on AA metal only to LHR, hence fly F or C (not sure which) Class only to LHR and fly Y Class on BA metal to Delhi. BA did not accept the AA system wide upgrades.
Return trip to MIA: same thing. They fly Y Class on BA to LHR connecting on AA metal to MIA.

Ben Soriano



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1924 times:

Quoting WROORD (Reply 7):
True, unless someone wants to fly AA all the way and not AA/BA.
Quoting American 767 (Reply 9):
Some travelers hate to transit in LHR because of the heavy passenger traffic and having to re clear security upon changing terminal, as transiting in JFK with AA is now hassle free. I
Quoting dirtyfrankd (Reply 10):
Don't forget that for Executive Platinum Customers, Systemwide Upgrades can only be used on AA metal, which is another big reason to want to fly on AA metal.

I seriously doubt AA is going to start planning schedules around any of these things.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlinedirtyfrankd From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1838 times:

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 14):
I seriously doubt AA is going to start planning schedules around any of these things.

Well yeah, the things mentioned above are not enough to plan around. However, if they start to really expand their international network out of JFK, I think it would make sense to increase the amount of domestic feed into JFK which would be best achieved by adding a few more strategically timed flights per day between JFK and ORD and JFK and DFW.


User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1300 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

ORD and DFW are large AA International hubs in their own right. Probably not a whole lot of demand for international connections over JFK from either market. The small number of frequencies to JFK from these markets are plenty to serve the international destinations not already served out of either ORD or DFW.

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