PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6875 posts, RR: 29 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 29499 times:
gib From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 281 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 29517 times:
Wow.....sure is airkas1 !!! Site just added that closer pic.. Thanks for bringing it back to my attention, man !!
gib From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 281 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 29452 times:
PSU..... Apparently somewhere on the East side......which does us a lot of good... Ha...
"Delta Air Lines spokesman Eric Torbenson tells The Associated Press mechanics were testing the engines of the Boeing 737 when they experienced a problem with the braking system around 5 a.m. Tuesday. Bergen says the jet rolled off the taxiway on the east side of Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. She wasn't aware of any effect on airport operations as of 6 a.m."
My guess is it's the Taxiway directly North of the large hanger that's East of the F terminal (TWY E). There is a big drop from that TWY down to the hanger ramp. Often when you taxi by for a West departure, you are above everything but the V Stab on a 777.
Judging by the picture it looks like it was quite foggy too. I wonder if the "problem with the braking system" was a failure to apply brakes...
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
gdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 478 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 29217 times:
gdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 478 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 29117 times:
Quoting btblue (Reply 8): Looks like ship number N309DL
flood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1054 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 29100 times:
micstatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 762 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 29085 times:
I've often wondered how ATL passes FAA inspections with the huge slopes in various areas of the airport.
gib From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 281 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 29054 times:
Updated pic from WSB... Man...# 1 not looking real nice.
mmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 528 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28823 times:
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6875 posts, RR: 29 Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 28765 times:
Quoting micstatic (Reply 11): I've often wondered how ATL passes FAA inspections with the huge slopes in various areas of the airport.
That is an interesting question. That being said, what are the FAA regs for large slopes, ditches, enbankments in the middle of the airfield?
Remember the CO 737 in DEN that departed the runway? Wasn't the terrain of the airfield partially attributed to causing the damage that led to the fire once it departed the runway and went over a large drop-off?
shufflemoomin From Denmark, joined Jun 2010, 432 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 28567 times:
I was also wondering how it's okay to have slopes like that on an airfield. I've never seen anything like that before. I guess this incident is a good reason why it's not such a good idea.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11715 posts, RR: 52 Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 28485 times:
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 15): That is an interesting question. That being said, what are the FAA regs for large slopes, ditches, enbankments in the middle of the airfield?
The taxiway safety area (TSA) is 160' either side of the centerline (320' total), within that area from the edge of the hard surface, you can have a 1.5% slope for drainage. There is a smaller TSA authorized if no airplane in ADG-IV or bigger uses it. The B-73G/H is an ADG-III with or without winglets. You also have to look at if there is a FAA wavier if this taxiway does not meet the criteria of FAR part 139 and that in the Airport Planning ACs.
But why were they doing an engine run on a taxiway? Usually those are done on the mx ramp if a blast-fence is available, or a designated run-up area. Also, it looks like that taxiway climbs up-hill, so it is probibly not a run-up area. It does not make sense to do mx engine runs there.
At DFW leak checks, etc. are done on the ramps, or in one of the engine run-up areas. WB and full power engine runs are usually done on a closed runway.
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 401 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 28456 times:
How far is it from where they would be conducting an engine test to this location?
Quoting rduddji (Reply 5): Judging by the picture it looks like it was quite foggy too. I wonder if the "problem with the braking system" was a failure to apply brakes...
For the mechanics livelihood, I really hope that is not true.
On a side note, the media here keep saying it was on the runway and "skidded off the runway"
DL_Mech From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1762 posts, RR: 10 Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 28210 times:
Looks like they were using a runup area frequently used by AirTran.
jcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 43 Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 28123 times:
Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 16): I was also wondering how it's okay to have slopes like that on an airfield. I've never seen anything like that before. I guess this incident is a good reason why it's not such a good idea.
ATL's runways are also somewhat notable for their degrees of slope, creating somewhat of a valley in the midpoint of the runways. It's very noticeable when you're turning onto an active runway and you look down field.
DLDiamondboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 28035 times:
Just took off from ATL. 9R closed. Taxied for 35 minutes. That bird is beat up pretty bad. Glad no one was hurt.
777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3036 posts, RR: 3 Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 28024 times:
Quoting jcs17 (Reply 20): ATL's runways are also somewhat notable for their degrees of slope, creating somewhat of a valley in the midpoint of the runways. It's very noticeable when you're turning onto an active runway and you look down field.
DFW, as well, or at least the taxiways. Some of the taxiways have very noticeable slopes to them.
DLDiamondboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 67 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 28019 times:
rl757pvd From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 27842 times:
Can I be the annoying guy and see if someone can do a reg request to see if this was one of the planes I was on the other week? (Im a bad aviation geek I know).... 22FEB ATL-SXM and 27FEB SXM-ATL. Both were on 73G's.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
25 flood: CNN has a live stream of the recovery operations: edit: #$%!@ nevermind, they just ended it. Maybe there's another one up somewhere. Would be interest
26 AirbusA370: Did they do an engine test and forgot the wheel chocks like the Etihad A340 in Toulouse?
27 captainstefan: This isn't good- DL only has 10 of them in the fleet, used primarily for SNA transcons, EYW flights and SXM. I bet there'll be some substitutions this
28 blueheronNC: If the brakes truly "failed," couldn't they have applied thrust reversers as a last-ditch effort to stop the plane?
29 DLATLOpsSup: Wrong, wrong, and wrong . It's on the northwest side of the airport, just west of the city fuel farm, north of runway 8L, on a corner of taxiway E -
30 SAAFNAV: Well, in true A.net fashion, I have to nitpick. The aircraft is not lying on its side. In fact, it's straight on its belly on the ground. The ground h
31 ual777uk: Jesus. Sky over here is reporting a plane has craashed at ATL. Talk about completely incorrect and over the top!
32 richierich: I don't know anything about the SAV planes for St. Patrick's Day but surely they could be substituted if necessary. So can the SXM flights, back to t
33 phlwok: Looks like the FAA is posting 30 minute delays on average into ATL as of this writing due to "RWY:Disabled Aircraft". I guess the recovery efforts are
34 Cubsrule: . . . and the SNA flights (which can also be 738 and likely 319), and CR7s can do EYW, IIRC. They shouldn't have too much trouble.
35 dl757md: How is that when taxiway E is SOUTH of runway 8R/27L? I'm not there but your description doesn't make sense. We don't to high power runs there in ATL
36 Aloha717200: I wonder what Delta's policy is for employees involved in this kind of mishap. Hoping they didn't lose their jobs.
37 dl757md: There will be an investigation and if it is found out those involved willfully and knowingly didn't follow procedures then there will likely be punit
39 jetskipper: Yes, they could have. However since there were mechanics at the controls as opposed to pilots, their first instincts may have not been to use reverse
40 readytotaxi: Perhaps SKY were tipped off by the Daily Mail.
41 moumou8891: Looks like it happened here (red circle) I hope that, as after the Etihad A346 accident, they will change their run up policy ! Doing it on top of tha
42 moumou8891: Absolutely, if you take a look to the Etihad A346 accident in Toulouse, the only one who pulled back the throttles in the cockpit was the pilot seate
43 burnsie28: I don't think they can use the 738 SNA-ATL, but right now its 3x 73W and 1x 752 The fuel farm sits along taxiway Alpha, the plane is off taxiway E ne
44 SXDFC: There will be NO ( waves the finger ) stopping on the taxiway at Delta Air Lines..
45 mayor: Could they have been taxiing from the terminal TO the runup area? In addition to the investigation, I feel a drug test coming on.
46 GentFromAlaska: Interesting ATC ground would authorize nighttime towing especially in fog and at the U.S. busiest airport. Does anybody foresee the FAA placing restri
47 DiamondFlyer: No, the night is the slowest time for traffic at the airport. -DiamondFlyer
48 Cubsrule: AA uses the 738 every day to both DFW and ORD (and, IIRC, did so pre-winglets).
49 mayor: I believe this happened at about 5 am, so virtually no traffic at this time......besides, it wasn't being "towed", it was taxiing, if I read the arti
50 FlyASAGuy2005: It was not being towed. The a/c was under power.
51 GentFromAlaska: "a maintenance person was moving the plane when it went off the taxiway around 5 a.m. Delta spokesman Eric Torbenson said two maintenance workers wer
52 readytotaxi: Isnt there a rating of "licenced to Taxi" or something similar without being Pilot rated?
53 DiamondFlyer: No. They may or may not even have to have a "license" to taxi the aircraft, depending on the airline. -DiamondFlyer
54 dl1011: It might be a bit early to speculate on causes or reactions. However, a possible reason for the brakes releasing could be a lack of hydraulic pressur
55 PanAm788: This isn't a write off is it? From the pictures I'd say no but you can never really know for sure.
56 dl757md: Delta mechanics have to be attend a taxi training class, have familiarization training on the particular aircraft type and complete a check ride in or
57 readytotaxi: Wow, this is interesting, the airline can okay it and the FAA have no say?
58 Dalmd88: It is an approved part of the maintenance program at pretty much every airline in the US. Therefore approved by the FAA.
59 bobmuc: Incident even made it into the German Video news at "Stern Online": http://www.stern.de/panorama/atlanta...ueber-rollbahn-hinaus-1799280.html
60 litz: That's definitely what one would term an "unusual attitude" ... planes are not 4X4 jeeps. That's a heckuva kee-runch on that engine, enough so, that I
62 boeingkid: Why wasn't a Goldhoffer or a supetug used for this? I agree why were they doing that in the fog.
63 Dalmd88: The WSB site had some good shots of them lifting the plane with the two cranes. http://www.wsbtv.com/gallery/news/lo...-plane-veers-taxiway/gd6x/#1355
64 ikramerica: Looks like it might be a WO if I'm seeing the damage to the structure on the right side correctly. Those last two pics show a massive tear in the fus
65 ULMFlyer: Looks like an open emergency exit to me.
66 catiii: The emergency exit door opens outward and upward on the 73NG. That's what you're seeing. Agree it does look like a tear though.
67 ikramerica: I see it now. I guess it was the only safe way out for the crew on board.
68 jreuschl: Do the black boxes record data at all times, even in a situation like this? Would they record if braking was attempted?
69 richierich: I see what ikramerica means but it is definitely a popped door - and the 'tear' doesn't appear on other photos. I haven't seen anything to make me thi
70 litz: This could so easily have been popped MLG, kinked nose gear, crumpled nose ... torqued/wrinkled fuselage ... crunched belly skin ... and on and on. Th
72 ikramerica: It was an illusion from poor quality footage. Seems it's some bumps, bruises and a damaged engine.
73 Blueman87: is it going to be repaired or replaced
74 spyglass: I expect when the black boxes are reviewed, there will be at least one "oops!", and maybe a "golldang it!". At least the brake problem occurred in a n
75 B757forever: Both engines ingested mud. Left engine inlet cowl and fan cowls damaged. Unsure if the left engine was damaged from impact. Left NLG door torn off. No
76 Viscount724: It's hard to tell from photos. The Aerorepublica ERJ-190 below didn't look that badly damaged after it overran at Santa Marta, Colombia (SMR) in July
77 suisjes: Ah what airline does'nt?? If you operate any aircraft you will have to have a Run Taxi License given to you by the airline you are working with
78 akelley728: Way too early to know that, don't you think? There was the UA/CO 738 that fell into a sinkhole in Greenville, SC. There was quite a bit of damage inc
79 Dalmd88: My money is on it being repaired. In the last 20 years I've seen a lot worse damage fixed at DL. We'll only really know when the inspection is done on
80 suisjes: Way too early to know that, don't you think? Totally it is going to take weeks to rip it apart and do an analysis! And a lot of the repairs are look t
81 ikramerica: True but the avionics are under salt water, as is some of the hull, and it likely slammed hard into the rocks. The DL bird didn't get wet.
82 bennett123: Sometimes, (like the B747-300) scrapping is pretty obvious. I assume that it was broken up in 2001, (once any investigation was concluded). This B737,
83 Cubsrule: Didn't XJ also have a m/x taxi incident with an Avro at MEM a few years back? IIRC, that aircraft also impacted the jet bridge. My recollection is th
84 DiamondFlyer: I know numerous mechanics who taxi airplanes at airports with no license or anything. May not work for an airline, but they do it. -DiamondFlyer
85 SXDFC: Pardon my ignorance but one of the things Id like to know is if part of this "ripping apart" process also includes stripping the paint to check for da
86 GentFromAlaska: NBC aired pictures of airframe tonight on the national news. The engine on the damaged side didn't look pretty. I was wondering if it was even salvage
87 PSU.DTW.SCE: That was Mesaba mechanics taxiing an ARJ that did not have proper hydraulic power that impacted a jet bridge in MEM. The DC-9-50 had in-flight hydral
88 F9Animal: Wow! Thank goodness the mechs are OKAY! They no doubt will have to scrap their underwear!
89 jreuschl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:So...thwest_Airlines_Flight_1248_-1.jpg Let's not forget this 737 is flying again!
90 FlyASAGuy2005: Kind of hard to do an engine run-up with a supertug on the nose... I guess it will all come down to how much it will cost to fix vs what the insuranc
91 fshplns: Were they trying for a new shortcut back to the pad, instead of going down Taxiway E to Twy E10 (E10 being the only current taxiway into and out of th
92 captainstefan: To the FAA, and apron is a non-movement area, which means it is not controlled by the FAA's ground controller. In Atlanta, however, the ramps are con
93 stratosphere: That was a pilot screw up he had hydraulic failure but shut down the engine that had the remaining hydraulics. Thats why it smashed into the A320.
94 stratosphere: You don't need a license per se. But all airlines qualifiy certain mechanics to run/taxi. Dont know what happens in the vendor arena.
95 yeelep: My airline does not issue a license, it is just a qualification kept in my training records that allows me to run/taxi our aircraft.
96 AR385: I believe thrust reversers are useless at low speeds. They would not have made much of a difference if the airplane was going at taxi speed. Don´t ai
97 stratosphere: They are not useless but are not used due to possible FOD ingestion thats why the 80/70 knot restriction. However, there has been more than one accid
98 geezer: Here's the thing about "the media", print, TV etc. that I have never been able to figure out; with them, it's all about "beating the other guy"; that'
99 NWAROOSTER: Have they retrieved the aircraft from it's resting point?
100 Dalmd88: Yes, it was moved into the hangar on Tues. afternoon. Once they had the cranes set up it only took about an hour to move it.
101 DeltaRules: I saw it off the taxiway on final to 27L yesterday coming in from CMH at about 11:15 and muttered "Whoa..." under my breath. Tried to figure out what
102 NWAROOSTER: Thanks for the info. Now we can see how long it takes to repair it.
103 PGNCS: What you say is correct. Anytime an aircraft is moving on the ground a taxi (or tow) accident can happen regardless of who is moving it.
104 n126dl: Is there any news from TechOps about the repair of N309DE?
105 FlyASAGuy2005: Was on my way to LAS day before yesterday and saw her in the hanger on our taxi out; bay doors were open. Seems to be jacked up and a tong of eqipmen
106 Dalmd88: I saw it up close last week. Both engines are off, as well as the t/rs for the number one engine. The gear are removed for inspection. It looks like t
107 4tet: Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG_u_B5d7cQ&feature=related R.
108 b757capt: Ahh the days when nobody cared about fuel burn! Thanks for sharing.
109 aerlingusa330: I'm surprised at how quickly they moved/cleaned up this aircraft. I flew through ATL that same day around 2PM and the only evidence of this were the t
110 rl757pvd: The FAA FSDO Is on the other end of the runway....
111 litz: And consider also ... this is KATL ... and Delta's home turf. Setting aside media relations concerns completely (and understand, every single helicopt
112 mayor: Doesn't really make that much difference......the AJC has been one of DL's harshest critics and one of the biggest supporters of WN coming to town.
113 western727: Yes and no. The target-type reverser (the JT8D is an example...shown in the NW DC-9 video posted in reply 107 by user 4tet) can be used at any speed
114 Dalmd88: At 2pm it had just been towed over to the wash rack in front of TOC 1. They gave the gear a quick spray down before it was towed in to the hangar at
115 aerlingusa330: Right, and what I meant by that is that the FAA & NTSB aren't exactly fast-moving organizations. I would have imagined that since the FAA wanted
116 FlyASAGuy2005: What gave you that idea? With accidents, they're pretty good.
117 DeltaL1011man: AJC sucks period. Such a waste of paper. I saw it Saturday, still in bay 10. T/Rs still off number one, Both engines are sitting in the bay ready to
118 B757forever: Ship 3609 taxied off the TOC ramp todayfor a check flight. Assuming if all goes well it will return to service.
119 n471wn: Wow was than one quick repair----great work Delta mechanics!!
120 Alnicocunife: I thought it would take months to repair yet is is flying now, very good! What happened to the mechanics who drove it into the dirt?
121 KaiGywer: They worked overtime to put it back together
122 DeltaL1011man: wasn't that bad once it got cleaned up and in the shop. Gear/engines were ok and just need a little skin work.
123 akelley728: They did replace the front engine cowlings, right? They looked pretty banged up!
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