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BOS Terminal Renovation Funding OK'd  
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4512 times:

Finally, what so many of us have been suggesting for years, is happening.
http://www.boston.com/Boston/busines.../FTlLsG0fCdlaVpY0lrACvI/index.html

Hopefully they'll "improve" the landside connection between terminals C and E too. That corridor is an eyesore and that space could be much better utilized, IMHO. My suggestion would be to move those offices in the first floor of the old D terminal somewhere else and just open up the entire floor to foot traffic, and install some moving walkways.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6936 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4508 times:

How many gates for UA in B?


"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4246 times:

Plan is for 8 gates.

User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 799 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4090 times:

Great news!!!

1. Is B6 taking over the rest of Terminal C? Any insider information?

2. Is UA/CO combined operation moving to B? So A will have just Delta?


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 3):
1. Is B6 taking over the rest of Terminal C? Any insider information?

Yes, they are, once CO/UA gets out. That requires both halves of Terminal B to be connected. It should happen in early 2013 IIRC.

Quoting ASA (Reply 3):
2. Is UA/CO combined operation moving to B? So A will have just Delta?

UA/CO is still split between Terminal A and Terminal C. They might go completely into Terminal C for the time being. AS will also be in Terminal A.



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User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4165 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

I'm surprised that the release didn't include renderings and illustrations. It would be good to see a 'before' and 'after' footprint comparison, plus some stylized renderings showing how it will all look.

I'm sure those illustrations will be forthcoming.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3698 times:

Quoting airbazar (Thread starter):
Hopefully they'll "improve" the landside connection between terminals C and E too. That corridor is an eyesore and that space could be much better utilized, IMHO. My suggestion would be to move those offices in the first floor of the old D terminal somewhere else and just open up the entire floor to foot traffic, and install some moving walkways.

I'm not sure there's much to be gained from that, to be honest. WN's check-in desks will presumably remain in Terminal E, while B6's will remain in Terminal C. If B6 customers arriving from international flights can re-clear security in Terminal E and reach Terminal C gates via a sterile walkway, there's no need to walk through the dumpy parts of the former Terminal D. Likewise, in the slight chance that WN were to use gates in Terminal C, their customers would be able to use the same walkway -- however, I've noticed them using gates E2A/B & E3A/B in the morning when there's little activity in the rest of Terminal E.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 4):
UA/CO is still split between Terminal A and Terminal C. They might go completely into Terminal C for the time being. AS will also be in Terminal A.

Perhaps a good short-term solution would be for VX to take a couple of CO's gates in Terminal A, and for the combined CO/UA to move into the unused AA/MQ & former VX gates; this would allow for a single-terminal operation while the two sides of B are combined.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3551 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 5):
I'm surprised that the release didn't include renderings and illustrations. It would be good to see a 'before' and 'after' footprint comparison, plus some stylized renderings showing how it will all look.

Part of this funding is for design work. So if there's no design yet, there are no illustrations  
Another release that I read states that they will have the design completed by the end of this year so we'll probably see that when the second phase of funding, for the actual construction, is OK'd.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 6):
I'm not sure there's much to be gained from that, to be honest.

Well it would make transfering between terminals B and E that much easier and with increased foot traffic they could sell retail space in that area thus bringing Massport more revenue. As it stands right now, that entire area is not generating any revenue. It's dead space. AA/US/UA/CO do a fair share of feeding to BA and LH.


User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1867 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3438 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
As it stands right now, that entire area is not generating any revenue. It's dead space.

It's so dead, I feel like I'm someplace I'm not supposed to be, when I wander that way.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
Well it would make transfering between terminals B and E that much easier

Easier, maybe, but nothing is going to make it an easy walk.

Depending on where in B you are, it'll probably still be easier to take the long walkway from A to E. A normal person would just take the bus.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3285 times:

Quoting tharanga (Reply 8):
Depending on where in B you are, it'll probably still be easier to take the long walkway from A to E. A normal person would just take the bus.

Are you calling me abnormal?  The bus requires waiting outside in the cold and long New England Winters. I don't find the walk to be that long, especially if they were to install moving walkways. People don't like hauling luggage up and down buses. It's much easier to just wheel them to the next terminal. And I've had longer walks at AMS or LHR for example.
At AMS if you're connecting between a regional flight at piers A/B/C and an International fligh at concourses E or F, it's a decent walk. Same thing at LHR if you're walking between terminals 1,2,3, especially if you make the mistake of going via the Tube tunnels  


User currently offlineairportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3719 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 9):
The bus requires waiting outside in the cold and long New England Winters. I don't find the walk to be that long, especially if they were to install moving walkways. People don't like hauling luggage up and down buses.

It's a long walk from A to E, no matter how you cut it today. When I worked there, we loved getting assignments that required said walk. It allowed to be gone for a long while...call it being lazy...opportunistic...whatever you want!   Narrow corridors, elevators, stairs (C-B v/v)...

Quoting tharanga (Reply 8):
It's so dead, I feel like I'm someplace I'm not supposed to be, when I wander that way.

Yup..."one does not simply walk into Terminal E..."  



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User currently offlineUnited777ORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3191 times:

Quoting jcarv (Reply 2):
Plan is for 8 gates.

Is 8 gates going to be sufficient for the UA operation in BOS? Will UA have access to the former AE regional jet parking positions? If so, that would be 8 gates and 3 regional jet parking stands.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 10):
It's a long walk from A to E, no matter how you cut it today. When I worked there, we loved getting assignments that required said walk. It allowed to be gone for a long while...call it being lazy...opportunistic...whatever you want! Narrow corridors, elevators, stairs (C-B v/v)...

A to E is an easy straight shot across the parking garage and there are moving walkways all the way. 5 mins if you walk fast, 10 minutes tops if you're a slow walker. B to E is probably the longest walk between terminals at BOS and not a pleasant one either because one has to navigate terminal C.

Quoting tharanga (Reply 8):
It's so dead, I feel like I'm someplace I'm not supposed to be, when I wander that way.

   I know right. The fist time I did it I was thinking to myself: Am I allowed to be here?


User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3014 times:

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 11):

The plans I saw called for 8 jet bridges. It's a total redesign and addition to the current B22-B29 area. All that open ramp area will be gone. It will join Terminal B US side from the shuttle gates and extend NE towards taxiway Alpha.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6936 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3003 times:

Quoting United777ORD (Reply 11):

It would be on the tighter side but it should be. They have a little over 40 flights a day.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3627 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

UA/CO will likely shrink in BOS going forward. They won't shrink by much, but they won't grow at all.

What the combined carrier needs is sufficient gate space for their current combined operation AND they need to be able to support the 757s that UA likes to bring in.

Realistically, over the next decade, the entire BOS operation will be 737/320/Dash/RJ/E Jets to the hubs. 8 gates should be more than enough.


User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1547 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

I will use my Art 101 here. Will the add-on to the American side look like this?



User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6936 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2870 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):

I doubt that considering:

--EWR will see 757s starting next month.
--CLE will see A320s
--IAD gets mainline
--SFO is a combination of 757, 737, and Airbii
--LAX is still 2x a day on 757s.
--ORD sees a fair mix (just like any other east coast to ORD destination.)

So while they may not grow, BOS still sees a fair amount of UA 757s and will continue to.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2791 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 9):
The bus requires waiting outside in the cold and long New England Winters. I don't find the walk to be that long, especially if they were to install moving walkways.

Going between Terminals C & E on the landside still requires walking outside "in the cold and long New England Winters." Going from B to E via Terminal A is the same distance and all indoors.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 7):
it would make transfering between terminals B and E that much easier and with increased foot traffic they could sell retail space in that area thus bringing Massport more revenue.

The amount of foot traffic between B & E isn't anywhere near enough to justify anyone putting in retail. The revenue just wouldn't be there.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 17):
So while they may not grow, BOS still sees a fair amount of UA 757s and will continue to.

The 757's aren't going to stay over the long term. The PMUA fleet averages over 20 years in age, and the 739ER's are the obvious long-term replacement, with virtually the same number of seats and lower block-hour costs. By the end of the decade, BOS will see few, if any UA 757's.


User currently offlineMAV88 From United States of America, joined May 2011, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
UA/CO will likely shrink in BOS going forward. They won't shrink by much, but they won't grow at all.

What the combined carrier needs is sufficient gate space for their current combined operation AND they need to be able to support the 757s that UA likes to bring in.

Realistically, over the next decade, the entire BOS operation will be 737/320/Dash/RJ/E Jets to the hubs. 8 gates should be more than enough.

BOS sees a large amount of UA 757s on DEN, SFO, LAX and to a lesser extent ORD and IAD. Why would they also shrink BOS? 8 gates should be enough to run the operation.

They only fly to:

EWR
CLE
IAH
SFO
LAX
DEN
ORD
IAD


User currently offlineUnited777ORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 15):
UA/CO will likely shrink in BOS going forward. They won't shrink by much, but they won't grow at all.

What the combined carrier needs is sufficient gate space for their current combined operation AND they need to be able to support the 757s that UA likes to bring in.

Realistically, over the next decade, the entire BOS operation will be 737/320/Dash/RJ/E Jets to the hubs. 8 gates should be more than enough.

I disagree because United currently has split operations in Terminal A (4 gates) and C (11 gates) and they utilize a total of 15 gates. 15 gates to 8 gates is a significant reduction of gate space. Is it possible that US will allow UA to purchase a couple of the current B finger gates to UA. I don't see the need for US to have 20+gates at BOS.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3627 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2640 times:

"
--EWR will see 757s starting next month.
--CLE will see A320s
--IAD gets mainline
--SFO is a combination of 757, 737, and Airbii
--LAX is still 2x a day on 757s.
--ORD sees a fair mix (just like any other east coast to ORD destination.)

So while they may not grow, BOS still sees a fair amount of UA 757s and will continue to."


And over the next decade those old 757s will be gone and they will be replaced by 737s and 320s. Enjoy them while you have them.

"I disagree because United currently has split operations in Terminal A (4 gates) and C (11 gates) and they utilize a total of 15 gates."

Yes, and you can go bowling in the UA gate areas...they are empty most of the day.

If you happen to be in Terminal C, walk from UA to B6 or B6 to UA...the difference is stark. The B6 side of the terminal is bright, clean, modern, and bustling.

Walk to the UA side and it's dingy, old and very underutilized.

The whole UA/CO operation would have fit nicely in UAs current gates...but those gates are spoken for.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2555 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
Yes, and you can go bowling in the UA gate areas...they are empty most of the day.

But jam packed in the evenings. Are you suggesting they move the evening departures to mid day departures? Not gonna happen.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
If you happen to be in Terminal C, walk from UA to B6 or B6 to UA...the difference is stark. The B6 side of the terminal is bright, clean, modern, and bustling.

They're bustling because BOS is a "hub" for B6 and a mere spoke for UA. That's the nature of the business. But it doesn't lessen the fact that UA needs those gates betweek 5pm and 7pm.

Are there any common use gates at terminal B? Maybe that would be the solution. Perhaps sharing with US is an alternative too.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6826 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2436 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 22):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 21):
Yes, and you can go bowling in the UA gate areas...they are empty most of the day.

But jam packed in the evenings.

I don't think I'd call 9 departures after 3 PM from 8 or 9 gates in Terminal C "jam packed in the evenings" -- and one of those is on an ERJ. UA could easily operate its evening schedule to ORD/DEN/LAX/SFO/IAD out of 4 or 5 gates. There's really only one "busy" period during the afternoon in the UA pier of C when they have departures to all 5 PMUA hubs within about 90 minutes, between 1630 and 1800.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 22):
Are there any common use gates at terminal B? Maybe that would be the solution.Perhaps sharing with US is an alternative too.

The VX gates might be or might have been common-use along with the AC gates -- but both the VX & AC gates are unconnected to the other secure areas of Terminal B. The former MQ gates also saw lots of carriers with small BOS presences over the years -- CO was there in the late 1980's before moving into Terminal A with Eastern.

I would assume that part of the plan would include UA sharing one or two of the US gates; with the US presence having dwindled so much over the past 15 years, the US side of Terminal B is severely underused and that will become worse with the Colgan flying ending. Also, I can't see how the BOS-LGA leg of the US Shuttle can survive the end of the US focus operation at LGA.

Of course, if AA & US were to merge, AA could simply move into the US gates and UA could take over the AA gates...


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8663 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2299 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 23):
I don't think I'd call 9 departures after 3 PM from 8 or 9 gates in Terminal C "jam packed in the evenings" -- and one of those is on an ERJ.

The issue is not so much the space in the terminal as much as the occupied gates. ERJ's still need gates.
But I just flew out last Monday on the 6pm departurre to DEN and the entire terminal was like a sardine can.


25 Post contains images TOMMY767 : They have zero proof. Believe it or not, A.netters are sometimes huffing crack Funny you say that considering United at Logan in terms of 757 action
26 apodino : Well, we all knew this was happening, it was just a matter of time before the announcement was made. The one thing I think will happen short term is t
27 Post contains links and images airbazar : You bring up a lot of very interesting points It's an issue now but luckily I don't think UA/CO are connecting many people thru BOS. They could easily
28 apodino : That is not what I meant. What I was referring to was pax starting their trip in BOS and going somewhere that requires a connection. For example say
29 airbazar : Never gonna happen. B6 doesn't even have FIS at their brand new home terminal at JFK. It would be cheaper and more cost effective to modify a couple
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