Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Southwest Expects 1st Quarter Loss...  
User currently offlinelucky777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 537 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11037 times:

Rough waters ahead for LUV it would appear, seems those fuel hedges were hiding significant revenue difficulties up until this point.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...d=c02d7e19feee4305857f20b2ee79ee83

110 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemrskyguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1214 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11028 times:

This is pretty common.. almost predictably so. 1Q is always a difficult time, especially during escalating fuel and mid-merger activities. I wouldn't think much of it.


"The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee." -- Gunter's 2nd Law of Air
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13475 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10998 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Gosh, if only they had an ongoing ancillary revenue source, equivalent to a decent fare increase, that doesn't kill demand! Hmm...  


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinedsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10834 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):
Gosh, if only they had an ongoing ancillary revenue source, equivalent to a decent fare increase, that doesn't kill demand! Hmm...

Charging pax 25 dollars to check a bag is absurd, has created more demand for carry ons and lead to boarding/deplaning delays. If airlines are going to charge it needs to be based on a distance flown and the price incorporated into the ticket price. If your not checking then the amount you pay simply goes to cover other parts of the operation cost to take you somewhere.



GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4975 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10820 times:

WN has major expenses regarding the FL intergration. This is a short term bump down.


Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13475 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10797 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 3):
Charging pax 25 dollars to check a bag is absurd

...in your opinion.

It's hard to argue with the facts presented by the bottom line, though - bag fees are huge revenue source that doesn't kill demand the way a fare increase of the same amount would.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineMcdu From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1448 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10799 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 4):

WN has major expenses regarding the FL intergration. This is a short term bump down.

Except that WN didn't mention the merger expenses as the reason for the loss. They also are not saying it is a short term bump.


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2061 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10773 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):
Gosh, if only they had an ongoing ancillary revenue source, equivalent to a decent fare increase, that doesn't kill demand!

I'll start the popcorn....


User currently offlineburnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7526 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10772 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 4):

WN has major expenses regarding the FL intergration. This is a short term bump down.

Even with those "one time expenses" it wouldn't surprise me that they would lose money anyway, especially given the rapid rise in fuel during the 1Q which is typically one of the weakest demand times. Also given WN's operating cost is higher than a lot of the other airlines out there now.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5438 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10743 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):
It's hard to argue with the facts presented by the bottom line, though - bag fees are huge revenue source that doesn't kill demand the way a fare increase of the same amount would.

I book WN or AS generally. Last trip the bag fees charged by AS sent me to WN. This trip WN wasn't an option as we wanted to fly into LGB, but I almost booked LAX because even paying for a cab, WN was still slightly cheaper on the dates we chose than AS into LGB. In the end, we just needed to fly into LGB.

Quoting lucky777 (Thread starter):
seems those fuel hedges were hiding significant revenue difficulties up until this point.

Is that what it said? That their past fuel hedges were hiding significant revenue difficulties?

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10732 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I had 4 legs on Airtran the past 2 1/2 days. Every flight left on time or 10 minutes early. 20.00 dollar 1st bag fees did not seem to cause any resentment. When the planes are full they are forceful in getting pax with zone 7 and 8 seating priorities to gate check their roller-boards (at no cost). The 8 zone seating printed on the boarding passes is a pretty neat system and really allows the planes to load up fast. I was very impressed with Airtran. Very fast turns, including unloading a 737-700 from Cancun at the international terminal at MKE, servicing it and towing it over the domestic gate within about 35 minutes total elapsed time, for an on time departure to SRQ Florida. Across the board nice flight crews. Southwest hopefully will be open to learning some things from Airtran. A very nice reminder that competitive air fares and decent service levels including an acceptable first class option are not mutually exclusive.


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4541 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10675 times:

Quoting lucky777 (Thread starter):

Rough waters ahead for LUV it would appear, seems those fuel hedges were hiding significant revenue difficulties up until this point.

The hedges have been gone for awhile I believe.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):
It's hard to argue with the facts presented by the bottom line, though - bag fees are huge revenue source that doesn't kill demand the way a fare increase of the same amount would.

Why charge for bags when you've been able to push fare increases consistently for awhile now that automatically get matched by everyone - who still charges extra for bags? WN can easily raise fares another $10-20 over a few months and avoid having to charge for bags. Meanwhile every other carrier will match the fares and still charge extra. Sure the could make more money, but at the end of the day WN could easily still come out ahead in meeting their goals.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4971 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10641 times:

WN will indeed face challenges in the future. No matter how healthy, how much of a darling a company is.... It eventually faces difficulties. Not just WN, but any company. WN has however put lots of money away for rainy days, which will help the company weather difficulties. Fuel is every airlines enemy... Even WN is feeling it. Sure hope this industry finds a way to run these birds on cooking oil!


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6572 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10614 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):
Gosh, if only they had an ongoing ancillary revenue source, equivalent to a decent fare increase, that doesn't kill demand! Hmm...  

Gee, then why do the legacy carriers have to keep shrinking??


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10515 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 11):
Why charge for bags when you've been able to push fare increases consistently for awhile now that automatically get matched by everyone - who still charges extra for bags? WN can easily raise fares another $10-20 over a few months and avoid having to charge for bags. Meanwhile every other carrier will match the fares and still charge extra. Sure the could make more money, but at the end of the day WN could easily still come out ahead in meeting their goals.

I'm still a strong believer that there's still a lot of money being left on the table. I guess i'm in that crazy group the believes the BOD will eventually want the extra cash.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10506 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

According to the recent Boyd report, WN number of departures and number of seats is down about 7% between 2007 and 2012. I guess they are also a legacy carrier that is shrinking?


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1912 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10429 times:

I think it's interesting that the 1Q isn't even over yet, results don't get posted until @ APR 20, and they're already noticing the potential for a loss.

Fuel costs are definitely a killer.



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently onlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4760 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10423 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting lucky777 (Thread starter):
Rough waters ahead for LUV it would appear, seems those fuel hedges were hiding significant revenue difficulties up until this point.

I don't think they were hiding anything. In fact, past quarterly losses over the past few years were reported because of their hedges.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):
Gosh, if only they had an ongoing ancillary revenue source

Man, I have fought it for a long time but I am starting to think differently about this. I like that they are able to offer free bag checking to customers, but it's hard not to look at all those bags out there and not see dollar signs floating away. Flights are going out so ridiculously heavy with bags these days, it's well...ridiculous. But there is a bigger picture that they are looking at and for now no bag fees is more beneficial.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):
bag fees are huge revenue source that doesn't kill demand

I have been told by many friends that if Southwest charged for bags, they would fly someone else. I'm sure they aren't alone.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently onlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8160 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10401 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 2):
Gosh, if only they had an ongoing ancillary revenue source, equivalent to a decent fare increase, that doesn't kill demand! Hmm...

They have better than that. They control the pricing in most of the market they fly which allows them to charge prices that make them profitable. This loss is a mere bump in the road to another profitable year.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10343 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 16):
I think it's interesting that the 1Q isn't even over yet, results don't get posted until @ APR 20, and they're already noticing the potential for a loss.

Fuel costs are definitely a killer.

Well yes, they report on April 20th but the quarter ends this month. I'm pretty sure they already know how they did for January and February. With 15 days left in the month, it would be clear to them whether they'll be in the red or black for the quarter.

I've seen airlines predict well ahead of their quarterly results if they'd be making money or not. DL's president recently provided financial guidance and said they expect to make money for Q1. Very thin margins but still better than 2011.

[Edited 2012-03-13 20:02:00]


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinelucky777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10277 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 19):
DL's president recently provided financial guidance and said they expect to make money for Q1. Very thin margins but still better than 2011


In fact, if i'm not mistaken DAL took a fairly sizable loss in the 1st quarter of 2011, so if they can eke out a profit, not matter how small, its pretty impressive.


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1896 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10216 times:

Considering the current economic environment for airlines, I'd challenge any of the legacies to make money on just their mainline, domestic operations.

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5438 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10111 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 11):
Why charge for bags when you've been able to push fare increases consistently for awhile now that automatically get matched by everyone - who still charges extra for bags? WN can easily raise fares another $10-20 over a few months and avoid having to charge for bags. Meanwhile every other carrier will match the fares and still charge extra. Sure the could make more money, but at the end of the day WN could easily still come out ahead in meeting their goals.

While I like Bags Fly Free, I think that this paragraph almost makes the case for charging for them.

Quoting Coronado (Reply 15):
According to the recent Boyd report, WN number of departures and number of seats is down about 7% between 2007 and 2012. I guess they are also a legacy carrier that is shrinking?

Quite a little drop there. I'm wondering if the departure reduction is partially offset by increased stage length?

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 17):
Flights are going out so ridiculously heavy with bags these days, it's well...ridiculous. But there is a bigger picture that they are looking at and for now no bag fees is more beneficial.

You have to ask how loyal people would be to WN if they did start charging for bags? For me, I like WN fine and I fly them based on price primarily versus AS, who I also like fine. Take away Bags Fly Free and you will see reduced bags because you will see reduced passengers - unless you offset it with lower fares. If another carrier has a lower CASM than WN, they might just win the business.

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 17):
I have been told by many friends that if Southwest charged for bags, they would fly someone else. I'm sure they aren't alone.

They aren't.

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 20):
In fact, if i'm not mistaken DAL took a fairly sizable loss in the 1st quarter of 2011, so if they can eke out a profit, not matter how small, its pretty impressive.

So WN expects a first quarter loss of unknown magnitude and it's rough days ahead and hidden revenue difficulties. Yet the worlds second largest carrier can "eke out" a tiny profit and it's "pretty impressive"? The difference between DL's profit and WN's loss may be in the tens of millions of dollars. Yet Delta has twice the revenue of WN.

I'm not sure I'd be holding my widget flag too high.  

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13475 posts, RR: 62
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10089 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 17):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 5):
bag fees are huge revenue source that doesn't kill demand

I have been told by many friends that if Southwest charged for bags, they would fly someone else.

Funny, that's what most customers said of AA, UA, DL, etc. just before they started charging bags. And y'know what happened? They kept right on flying AA, UA, DL, etc.

I get where you're coming from, I do - I work for a carrier that held out for a long, long time on charging bag fees, and I was firmly against implementing them as well. It just wasn't done, y'know?

We held out hope that by not matching those fees, we'd make it up in "goodwill bookings" from customers defecting to us, rewarding us for not charging bag fees.

It didn't happen. They kept right on flying AA, UA, DL, etc.

It was like our competitors got the benefit of a fare increase that we were denying ourselves, yet it didn't materially reduce demand like a fare increase would.

And that's when my company realized that this was the new reality. Customers, for the most part, just want safe, reliable transportation from point A to point B. Sure, some would be willing to pay a bit more for extras like a meal or a checked bag, but the "all-inclusive" pricing of the past was just that, a thing of the past.

So after much hand-wringing and debate, my company elected to allow customers to only pay for the services they want and started charging $20 per bag, along with a 20 minute guarantee to have it on the carousel. Many customers complained, saying they'd never fly us again. We braced for the backlash.

And they kept right on flying us. Because we provide a safe, reliable product with great people delivering outstanding service, and that hadn't changed. And that wouldn't change at WN, either.




I guarantee WN wouldn't be staring a 1Q12 loss in the face if they charged even a modest $10.00 fee for checked bags.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5438 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9942 times:

Great post, EA CO AS.

I can only speak for myself. If the overall cost - including bag fees - is less on one carrier versus another, that's who will probably get my business. Not that I'm a desirable customer to those carriers relative to more frequent flyers, but I do use the baggage fees as part of my booking decision. Maybe many/most don't?

For WN, it definitely will be a huge hurdle to cross after all of their marketing of it, and maybe they will continue to look for other ways to earn more revenue instead of the bag fees? They'll need to keep trying, that's for sure, and their model will need to keep evolving.

Totally off topic - ha ha - so don't answer if it's a little silly, but do the SkyWest CR7 flights gate check bags? When we flew QX CR7's to Long Beach some years back you could check your carry-on roller's at the gate rather than take them onboard. Does SkyWest do this as well on this equipment when flying for Alaska

-Dave



Totes my goats!
25 Post contains images MaverickM11 : You may not, but WN better, because the low cost revolution has come full circle and is coming after them. The next four years are going to be much h
26 lucky777 : Considering that LUV made $68 Million in the first quarter of 2011 and DAL lost $318 Million, then yes, i'd say even being able to 'eke" out a small
27 Post contains images MountainFlyer : While a good move in the last couple of years, I do think WN holding out on charging for bags could come back to bite them someday because of what yo
28 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Trust me, I knew it'd be flying before I even started reading the post. On $8 BILLION in revenue? Sure, it's a nice turnaround, but is Southwest losi
29 Post contains images EA CO AS : I respectfully disagree. WN has spent decades cultivating a "we're ALWAYS the lowest fare" mentality in the traveling public, and even if they retrea
30 FlyASAGuy2005 : But they're not. So as Judge Judy would say "That would be their (WN) problem.". Everyone valet tags on CR9s and below. The overhead bins on the CRJs
31 lucky777 : Then we can agree to disagree. Assuming Delta breaks even, (actually they're looking for a 1-3% profit margin, which would be somewhere between $80 M
32 Post contains links and images EA CO AS : LUV shareholders have been the "torches n' pitchforks" crowd for quite awhile now since their investment has gone nowhere for a very long time. Look
33 Flighty : 2 legacies remain in the country... AS and WN...
34 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Thanks! So if we take our luggage as "carry on" we will still check it at the gate and pick it up when we deboard the plane. I love it! I don't think
35 Goldenshield : Unless it's an NextGen CR7/9, that is. Of course, all of the ex-QX birds are NOT NextGen, so that ASAguy said still applies. Besides, it makes it eas
36 panamair : Just to be clear, Delta expects a +1 to +3% operating margin (they had a -1.2% operating margin in Q1 2011), but this will still result in a Net Loss
37 ual777uk : Agrred. Get of that soap box and join the real world. Fuel is going up and its unlikely to come back down for some time and so WN need another revenu
38 usdcaguy : Isn't this mostly because of all the cuts in flying, which have been larger than those of its peers? I'm still scratching my head over that one. I th
39 FlyPNS1 : Except that AA, UA, DL have all continued to shrink. Compared to before charging for bags, all those carriers are flying fewer and fewer passengers.
40 commavia : I doubt this is just short-term. That's part of it, no doubt. But Southwest has systemic issues to deal with. I imagine Southwest believes the demand
41 Post contains images rampart : Wow, what happened in late September 2010?? Nearly 40 million shares traded in one day (less than 10 million/day weeks before and after), followed by
42 HPRamper : If I remember correctly, DL took that sizable loss due largely to the Japan earthquake/tsunami which put the stops of their whole operation over ther
43 FlyPNS1 : But the only reason those carriers are generating better margins is because of bankruptcy reduced costs...not bag fees. However, these low costs won'
44 Silver1SWA : From the examples I have been told personally, they would fly anyone else who offers more as far as inflight services and more nonstop options. Right
45 GentFromAlaska : I thought they did. The optional $10 for a accelerated boarding group assignment. I understand this is a significant revenue generator for WN.
46 peanuts : Correct. For anyone to downplay this as a "bump" is sheer ignorance. A loss for WN is HUGE, any loss. They are not as resilient as many always assume
47 FlyPNS1 : WN has had quarterly losses before, so it's not a big deal really. Except that the order books say otherwise. If you look at aircraft order versus ai
48 jetlanta : With all due respect, there are a lot of folks sitting in offices at Love Field who vehemently disagree with you. It is a big deal. And its not an is
49 MaverickM11 : It's two fold. Yes, they've reduced costs in bankruptcy, but they've also squeezed more blood out of that rock on the revenue side. It's important to
50 FlyPNS1 : With high fuel prices and the integration of FL, this loss was no surprise. Sure, no one at WN likes it, but they knew this was coming. Yes, things a
51 MaverickM11 : No, not like all carriers. This is completely different for WN. WN has had the cost advantage for 40+ years and now they really don't. It is a whole
52 jetlanta : Knowing it was coming does not mean it isn't a big deal. I'm going to suggest that you are underestimating the scope of the issues that WN faces. The
53 Grid : Ha. It makes you wonder why so many people pay it then. To become profitable? Which airline would they fly? Doesn't every airline charge for checked
54 MaverickM11 : And a res system held together with duct tape and paperclips that doesn't allow much in the way of ancillary fees I'd say most of their recent adds,
55 enilria : They can blame this on fuel if they want I guess, but they just announced the code share with AirTran is delayed until at least December and that the
56 KarlB737 : They have a good one that has been a part of AirTran but they won't utilize it because it makes sense. It's called "Business Class". Keep in mind tha
57 Silver1SWA : This is the second time someone has said this. The point is, these people choose WN over the other carriers who offer more inflight amenities and in
58 rampart : It's interesting, but I almost remember this very line 5 or 10 years ago talking about AA. AA had, up until now, never declared bankruptcy, had succe
59 FlyPNS1 : But WN benefits from that consolidation as well. This a myth. WN is perfectly capable of charging ancillary fees and they already do. This is one pla
60 Flighty : I'll just say that 4-5 years ago, new MBA grads were interested in 2 airlines: AA and WN. Those were the two with the best MBA / shareholder report re
61 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : It's one thing to change aircraft, it's another to reach into my wallet. It isn't about the bag fees, per se - at least for me - but about the overal
62 jetlanta : You are incorrect. They can charge SOME ancillary fees, but not ALL. The reason their costs are lower than legacies has more to do with their point-t
63 enilria : Flights on the "wrong" code with no code share FL Code AUA-BWI, effective 12/2011; operates 2/wk; Poor, but not terrible thanks to the local market A
64 Flighty : OTOH, they actually have trust in their managment. Maybe if mgmt lays out the point you have above, rank & file may give it due consideration. It
65 Post contains images enilria : As I posted, there are 53 roundtrips of garbage flying without code share and even if they get codeshare going on 12/31/2012 (they have missed all th
66 Cubsrule : Why is that? What's different from an IT perspective about third bag fee versus first?
67 enilria : I know. The 3rd bag fee is an MCO (Miscellaneous Charge Order) that is charged by the agent at the airport and essentially added to the PNR in the no
68 FlyPNS1 : But how does WN pre-sell the early bird check-in for a $10 fee? This is done in advance on southwest.com.
69 enilria : So, imagine a black box that takes in and spits out data in a uniform way that can't be altered. They have created a parallel software program that s
70 FlyASAGuy2005 : Yep!! Pick it up plane-side. The problem is there is nothing to pick up. They were running high LF without the cuts "generally" on the domestic front
71 knope2001 : Wow...is there a public source on this yet? Thanks for pulling this together into one place. Interesting stuff. IMHO if code sharing wasn't immediate
72 Cubsrule : 120 or so, but RDU, which is a similar geographically and population-wise but has much lower fares, is around 450.
73 Coronado : So I guess my reading of the above is that WN management in taking over FL, did not do their homework in actually integrating the two carriers systems
74 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I guarantee you, if Southwest goes to its employees looking for concessions before a bag fee is applied, it will be Southwest management having such
75 N505FX : do you have proof of this or is this just anecdote?
76 flashmeister : Two things turned me into a WN fanatic: Rapid Rewards (before it was neutered) and Bags Fly Free. They've screwed RR up beyond any real utility for m
77 MountainFlyer : That's absolutely true, but along the same lines of perception, it doesn't take much for a well-liked company to dig itself a big hole. Take Netflix
78 Post contains links dsuairptman : Neglecting pax all the way. Maybe this article will shed some light on what the customer that pays the bill thinks. http://travelkit.msnbc.msn.com/_n
79 enilria : They are going to carry nobody except a few HOU/California connects. That was in Kelly's speech about 10 days ago. It was covered in the media. They
80 Flytravel : RDU is larger population-wise over ORF with RDU likely pulling from its own CSA and Fayetteville MSA and some more outlying counties (Duplin, Edgecomb
81 Cubsrule : Similar, not identical. The geographic differences do not explain the 350 percent difference in market size.
82 sccutler : Southwest has not marketed as the lowest fare, much less "always" the lowest fare. That sort of tripe is found, principally, in Internet message boar
83 FlyASAGuy2005 : Maybe because people actually have a REASON to go to the RTP area?? LOL. I mean honestly, outside of Virginia Beach, there ain't much of anything in
84 seven3seven : 83 replies in so far. Anyone figure anything out yet?
85 737tdi : WN might lose this quarter, I kind of doubt it. I have flown on nothing but completely full aircraft. We will see won't we? I would bet on WN's side o
86 Post contains images Silver1SWA : WN expects a loss. So I would probably bet on a loss. It won't be the first quarterly loss in recent times but there are definitely some challenges a
87 Post contains links Mcdu : Perhaps WN's own propaganda will come back to bite them when it is all said and done.... http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4DBC75552676677A&
88 FlyPNS1 : It's fare driven. ORF-ATL has no LCC competition...all that traffic went to the PHF-ATL route where DL/FL compete. RDU-ATL has FL. Things will obviou
89 Post contains images Cubsrule : Of course, LAS also has an enormous convention business. Ever stood in the cab line at LAS? Those folks sure don't look like business travelers to me
90 FlyPNS1 : True, but convention travel books like leisure travel...well in advance and not as schedule sensitive.
91 lucky777 : Please, both LAS and MCO have massive convention centers and plenty of business to go along with it. But to somehow turn a blind eye to the facts and
92 Cubsrule : Yes, though probably also somewhat less price-sensitive. My point was just that "all leisure" is a bit of an over-simplification. MCO and LAS aren't
93 MountainFlyer : Full airplanes don't always mean making money. Every F9 I've been on in the last couple of years has been full, and we obviously know how they are do
94 Flytravel : I mentioned the population differences being very different. Also, from overall seats, RDU had over 15,000 avg daily seats on departures to domestic
95 FlyASAGuy2005 : I'm talking about the whole "military traffic" thing overall. The boys in white are flying ORF-JAX all day for obvious reasons.
96 PlanesNTrains : Advertising? Yes, all companies do it. Fly the friendly skies? Something special in the air? I can say I've experienced flights/crews that did not li
97 EA CO AS : Perhaps, however you never hear people ask if they should fly United and no one else because "They're the friendly skies, right?" Or American and no
98 TWA772LR : Fuel hedges running out, merger mania, and an unpredictable economy equals a tough time for LUV. If I were a stock holder, I'd watch WN very closely o
99 PlanesNTrains : I guess I'm at a loss to figure out why this is an issue? I think they deserve a little credit for effective marketing. Personally, as a responsible
100 EA CO AS : I was simply pointing out why someone had referred to their advertising as "propaganda."
101 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : The difference between Wal-Mart vs Target and say Southwest and Delta is that if I see a 42 LCD in Target for $400 and Wal-Mart has the exact same tv
102 Silver1SWA : I'd say it starts with something as simple as people not understanding the difference between "Low cost carrier" and "Low fare carrier". So many peop
103 KarlB737 : I will never understand why they just don't insert AirTran's "Business Class" since that was a popular option for business fliers who I might add act
104 EA CO AS : The number one thing any carrier wants when merging is consistency, and keeping FL's Business Class product would mean retrofitting 500 WN aircraft i
105 ouboy79 : If anything they see enough interest in the Business Select rates to make a true business class pointless. If people are already paying for the highe
106 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Wouldn't that be nice. -Dave
107 LoneStarMike : Keep in mind that AirTran's HOU-AUS & HOU-SAT flights aren't intended to be used by local O&D passengers. They exist as a way to get people f
108 Post contains images LoneStarMike : One more thing I forgot to comment on. I agree that WN will come up with additional revenue generating features, but I don't think they'll be the two
109 Post contains images ouboy79 : Good point. Just thinking of a way they could make it work to avoid having to load the plane down with catering items (well the food portion anyway).
110 F9Animal : I would imagine the expected loss would include costs of the FL buyout? Integration of it must have some hefty costs. With 800's coming soon, I am int
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
NW Reports 1st Quarter Loss posted Thu Apr 21 2005 15:55:07 by Nwcoflyer
Frontier Expects $58 Million Loss In Quarter posted Mon Aug 11 2008 16:55:16 by Enilria
United Posts 1st Quarter 2007 Loss posted Wed Apr 25 2007 16:17:00 by Spoke2Spoke
Southwest Reports 4th Quarter Profit posted Thu Jan 19 2012 08:03:10 by ScottB
2010 1st Quarter Widebody Deliveries posted Fri Apr 9 2010 22:34:06 by PM
Airbus 2010 1st Quarter Orders & Deliveries posted Wed Apr 7 2010 23:49:09 by Chiad
AA Big Quarter Loss. posted Wed Oct 21 2009 08:09:36 by A300AA
US Airways 1st Qtr Loss $103 Million posted Thu Apr 23 2009 05:41:31 by IliriBDL
CO 1st Qtr Loss $136 Million posted Wed Apr 22 2009 07:24:25 by CALPSAFltSkeds
Ryanair Posts Third Quarter Loss, Ups Outlook posted Mon Feb 2 2009 00:57:56 by OA260
NW Reports 1st Quarter Loss posted Thu Apr 21 2005 15:55:07 by Nwcoflyer
Frontier Expects $58 Million Loss In Quarter posted Mon Aug 11 2008 16:55:16 by Enilria
United Posts 1st Quarter 2007 Loss posted Wed Apr 25 2007 16:17:00 by Spoke2Spoke
Southwest Reports 4th Quarter Profit posted Thu Jan 19 2012 08:03:10 by ScottB
2010 1st Quarter Widebody Deliveries posted Fri Apr 9 2010 22:34:06 by PM
Airbus 2010 1st Quarter Orders & Deliveries posted Wed Apr 7 2010 23:49:09 by Chiad
AA Big Quarter Loss. posted Wed Oct 21 2009 08:09:36 by A300AA
US Airways 1st Qtr Loss $103 Million posted Thu Apr 23 2009 05:41:31 by IliriBDL
CO 1st Qtr Loss $136 Million posted Wed Apr 22 2009 07:24:25 by CALPSAFltSkeds