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Plans For AirTran's 717's?  
User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1627 posts, RR: 6
Posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14409 times:

Not sure if this question has been posted yet but does anyone know what Southwest plans to do with the 717's it inherited from AirTran? Moderators, if this is a duplicate post please feel free to delete it.


Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecmb320 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14387 times:

They're gonna hang onto them until Delta starts buying them.

User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14374 times:

The leases start to expire in 2017, but I believe WN wants to offload them sooner, maybe in the 2015 time frame.

WN's CEO is quoted in this article saying the 717 is a "good airplane" but that "Southwest does not want to operate (them) for the next 20 years."

Also, here are a couple threads about them:

Current Status of 717 With WN?

and

Will WN paint its 717's?



[Edited 2012-03-14 14:25:02]


SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14290 times:

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 2):
but I believe WN wants to offload them sooner, maybe in the 2015 time frame

Sooner then that. If they can't offload them Wn said they'll start parking them and continue to pay the leases until they expire. My bet is on Delta. Also, it seems odd that the Turkmenistan 717's were parked, but they're not showing up for sale or lease anywhere.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5478 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14287 times:

From inside the company grapevine they will wear WN livery. Otherwise, I understand Pimp My Ride is going to feature a tricked out/pimped out 717.   


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineAtlwest1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14188 times:

Yes you all will see a 717 in WN livery there is a conversion schedule tentatively. The priority though is the 737's. The first 737 is in conversion in Seattle for the next 30ish days or so. I think the 717 will be relatively easier then the 737s.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co. or Airt
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13596 times:

They should just paint the rest of them in various sports team colors

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3244 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 13448 times:

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 3):
Sooner then that. If they can't offload them Wn said they'll start parking them and continue to pay the leases until they expire.

Aren't there going to be all 717 stations with WN? Aren't they being kept because a couple of WN stations don't warrant a 737?



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 409 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11792 times:

Methinks AA is looking for an affordable 115 seat aircraft on a (bankruptcy) budget...   


Next
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3445 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11632 times:

I know a country in SE Europe that might be able to use about 25 of them.   


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11536 times:

I would smaller airlines might be looking at these planes. For example, Bahamasair is slated to get two former AR 735's. They could get five-seven 717's. HA already operates them in this environment. In addition, I have a hunch HA will pick up the low cycle/low hour a/c. Finally, I think new start up may want these a/c as they are fuel efficient.

Regarding DL and AA. DL could obtain more 73G's for fleet commonality rather than invest in a new fleet type. AA has already operated the type when they took over TWA's a/c. I doubt the bank would approve a new sub type though the clause in the seat category may force them to think otherwise.

KH



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3445 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11403 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 10):
I would smaller airlines might be looking at these planes.

This might be true but I keep thinking about the 20 that Boeing is still sitting on from the MX bankruptcy. Let alone 86.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineLOWS From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1151 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11368 times:

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 8):
I know a country in SE Europe that might be able to use about 25 of them.   

As a F70+F100 Replacement...?


User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11261 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 11):
This might be true but I keep thinking about the 20 that Boeing is still sitting on from the MX bankruptcy. Let alone 86.

Boeing's not sitting on any 717's. The MX ones are spoken for. And Airtran has 88, not 86, 717's


User currently offlineHypoxik From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10579 times:

Delta is already deciding which mx station will do the conversions.


California Native. KIWA, PHOG, KEWR, KIAH, KLAX, KIAH, KEWR, KORD
User currently offlinegizmonc From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9067 times:

I have heard rumors that their might be a swap between WN and DL. WN needs some 737 gates in ATL. WN wants to get rid of some 717 and DL wants a DC-9 replacement. Also DL has some 737-700 and 800's that might go in the deal. All kinds of deals pop up all the time.

User currently offlineAv8rDAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 462 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8957 times:

I would have to bet DL is definitely interested in them.

They could easily fill the holes left by the 20 or so D95s still in the fleet and also cull the oldest MD88s.

They could also create a "right-sized" fleet of the 717/MD88/MD90 and deploy these aircraft wherever it makes the most sense. If you can fill a 717 that you got for peanuts and burn much less gas than the Diesel 9 or -88, then it would make sense to do that over using an MD88 that you can only fill if you give seats away.

Pardon my simplistic analysis - I have no idea of the operating costs of the 717 compared to the MD88 or DC-9, but the general attraction is that this whole make/model series is generally cheap to acquire on the used market and own.



Maintain thine airspeed, lest the Earth rise up and smite thee.
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5107 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7594 times:

I love all this speculation, and yes they wont be flying for WN 20 years from now but...it's a good little airplane and WN might just run them till the leases end or their natural economic lifespan ends. It's an oddball fleet but we're not talking 10-15 frames here. Heck they might even find a solid niche at WN for 5-10 years.

As WN "replaces" FL flying, the 717's might be the last to change over, and so far this is strange merger process compared to normal integrations. It doesn't seem that FL will become WN on a particular day, just a gradual absorption of FL by WN.

I wonder how much $$$ is slipping away without a codeshare in place?



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 476 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7538 times:

Quoting cmb320 (Reply 1):
They're gonna hang onto them until Delta starts buying them.
Quoting dtw9 (Reply 3):
My bet is on Delta.
Quoting Hypoxik (Reply 14):
Delta is already deciding which mx station will do the conversions.
Quoting Av8rDAL (Reply 16):
I would have to bet DL is definitely interested in them.

Please pardon my ignorance, but is DL picking up these birds something that has some backing to it, or is it purely speculation on these boards?

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 15):
Also DL has some 737-700 and 800's that might go in the deal. All kinds of deals pop up all the time.

Why would DL get rid of 737s in favor of 717s? That seems a bit odd to me.



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlinetimf From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 969 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7407 times:
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The 737-700s are a small fleet that serve a niche for Delta that 717s won't fill, so I don't see them going anywhere. I could see possibly a few 737-800s being traded with the MD90s and future -900s able to backfill those, but I'm still not holding my breath for Delta to pick up any used 717s.

User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5454 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7391 times:

Quoting Hypoxik (Reply 14):
Delta is already deciding which mx station will do the conversions.

I don't buy it.

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 15):
Also DL has some 737-700 and 800's that might go in the deal.

DL's 737-700 fleet is brand-new and was purchased to fly specialized missions. Their -800 fleet is the mainstay of their long U.S. flights, and will be common with the 100 -900ERs being delivered in the next few years. Trading those planes for decade-old 717s would be absurd.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7351 times:

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 3):
Also, it seems odd that the Turkmenistan 717's were parked, but they're not showing up for sale or lease anywhere.

Isn't Boeing going to take those back?

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 13):
And Airtran has 88, not 86, 717's

How many are owned by FL as of today?

Quoting MountainFlyer (Reply 18):
is DL picking up these birds something that has some backing to it, or is it purely speculation on these boards?

Speculation, methinks. This is probably gonna be like the "When is NW going to retire the D9's" type thing..... Then turn into a "When is DL going to retire the 717?"



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15739 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7329 times:

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Thread starter):
Plans For AirTran's 717's?  

If you have one I'm sure Boeing would love to hear it.

Quoting AAIL86 (Reply 8):
Methinks AA is looking for an affordable 115 seat aircraft on a (bankruptcy) budget...

Now that their costs are likely to come down more in line with others that might be a better option, especially if their scope remains as restrictive as it is. They wanted to keep the TWA 717s, but Boeing wouldn't renegotiate the leases, but I doubt they will take them now.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9205 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7142 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 20):
DL's 737-700 fleet is brand-new and was purchased to fly specialized missions. Their -800 fleet is the mainstay of their long U.S. flights, and will be common with the 100 -900ERs being delivered in the next few years. Trading those planes for decade-old 717s would be absurd.

I do agree. The only thing I could see DL using these birds for is a DC9 replacement. Even with that, does DL even want/need a DC9 replacement? Do they really need something in the 100 to 120-seat range? They've already dumped their '30s inherited from NW, didn't they? I think if they would have wanted a direct equip-for-equip swap, it would have happened already...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7080 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 23):
I do agree. The only thing I could see DL using these birds for is a DC9 replacement. Even with that, does DL even want/need a DC9 replacement? Do they really need something in the 100 to 120-seat range? They've already dumped their '30s inherited from NW, didn't they? I think if they would have wanted a direct equip-for-equip swap, it would have happened already...

Ed recently stated this week that Delta and it's passengers don't like 50 seaters. For this reason Delta is upgaging 50 seat routes to 70-76 seaters and giving 17 DC-9-50's a year long reprieve to help cover the 76 seat routes. Ed was also asked this week about the WN 717's and replied that all options are still on the table and basically would not comment on Delta's plans.


25 B757forever : Delta is very interested in the 717 but has concerns about the BMW Rolls Royce engines. They are indeed fuel efficient but lack the longevity / on-win
26 WROORD : I thought that the new Spanish all 717 airline Volotea was getting them?
27 usdcaguy : I don't get why DL is always buying used planes. I suppose it makes financial sense (the only valid reason to buy a plane if you're a business), but i
28 delta2ual : I guess anything is possible, but I would be very surprised if DL gave WN more gates in ATL AND newer 700's and 800's.
29 PHX787 : This is the first time I'm hearing about DL being a potential buyer of the 717s....anybody got any outside articles on this?
30 zippyjet : This process revolves around computer program interfacing, seniority/years negotiations and issues with International flights. This is the reason for
31 AirframeAS : This is the first I have heard of this. Source?
32 Post contains images bjorn14 : At this point I know that Volotea only had taken a couple of them, maybe they do have a deal for all of them I don't know. As a whole airline replace
33 DTWPurserBoy : I am surprised that no one has mentioned the lack of cockpit commonality of the 717. The 737-700 and -800 are the same and the pilots are dual qualifi
34 aztrainer : OK, this is just conjecture on my part. Knowing WN and their desire to fly to Hawai'i, could they keep the 717 and then use them for interisland hops
35 Post contains images diverdave : SImulators are not cheap, but I can't imagine that the market for second hand 717 simulators is that large and in any case simulators cost much less
36 MountainFlyer : Just curious; how does the MD-90 cockpit compare to the 717?
37 TSS : The 717 cockpit is basically the same as the one used in the Saudia MD-90s except that the displays are LCD instead of CRT. DL, and as far as I know
38 BAC111 : I was unaware of this. Who has spoken for them? Where are the frames at this time?
39 dtw9 : 3 went to Hawaiian, 2 to Qantas Link and speculation is, 20 to Volotea
40 bobnwa : I guess you could call Pan AM,Braniff,Eastern etc sexy airlines,but it didn't do them much good did it?
41 ouboy79 : You won't find any. Plans are being made at WN to transition the 717 fleet from the FL fleet. They'll probably find a good use for them for the next
42 Post contains images B757forever : Internal analysis. Those are not made public.
43 PHX787 : IIRC, DL's pilots for the MD90 and MD88 are certified under the same type, correct me if I'm wrong[Edited 2012-03-16 17:17:49]
44 Yflyer : So here's something I've been wondering... If the rumor turns out to be true and Delta does buy the AirTran 717s, the MD-88/90 pilots couldn't fly the
45 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : There are upgrade packages available for both the MD-88 and MD-90, which would streamline training and provide commonality across the board for all t
46 TSS : I'll leave it to more learned individuals than me to answer that with a definitive "yes" or "no", but I will speculate that at a minimum some additio
47 TZTriStar500 : Its not speculation. There are also no other 717s on the market at this time with the exception of perhaps Turkmenistan's small fleet until WN begins
48 Post contains images FSDan : Warning: you are about to see my imagination run away a little bit... I would love to see the 717s go to DL. There is a laundry list of routes that I'
49 DTWPurserBoy : As I said in an earlier posting, the real expense in acquiring a fleet of 88 717's would be the huge cost of training pilots. You would have pilots bi
50 dtw9 : The speculation is in regards to the total number they'll take,not where there coming from. Delta wasn't interested in 25 frames, but they are in 88+
51 slcdeltarumd11 : I think deltas plan was to put them on specialized missions but with the 319 how many routes do they fly that can't be be turned into 319 or 757 route
52 erj170 : Well, if DL does acquire the 717, I wish they would put some on the followint RDU routes.. RDU-MCO (2x 717) RDU-LGA (3 of 6) RDU-BOS (2 of 5) RDU-DTW
53 delta2ual : DL buying these 717's would sure be ironic: ValuJet started with used DC-9's that were former DL!
54 TZTriStar500 : Like I said, there is no speculation and I will not lay my cards on the table in a public forum on how I know. Volotea is earmarked for 20 and this f
55 dtw9 : And like I said, until it is in writing somewhere, then it is pure speculation that all 20 will go to Volotea. Neither Boeing nor the Airline has rel
56 FX1816 : I don't know who is taking them but I can surely attest to the fact that SOMEONE is taking them. Everytime I drive by on my way to work I see them wo
57 TZTriStar500 : I love how this forum requires that everything stated be in 'official' public writing or it is not to be believed. Not all facts and details in busin
58 bjorn14 : Volotea has only publicly committed to three frames, they may eventually get to 20. I wish them luck but I'm a little skeptical of their biz plan.
59 dtw9 : I didn't ask you to risk your job by disclosing anything. I'm sure what your telling us is fact and thank you for the information that you can provid
60 DTWPurserBoy : I guess you could call Pan AM,Braniff,Eastern etc sexy airlines,but it didn't do them much good did it?[/quote] Callling an airline "sexy" is a silly
61 AirframeAS : It is also stated in the forum rules as well for CivAv, IIRC. I hope SRBMod can clarify this rule on the thread.
62 Post contains images NWAROOSTER : Delta is adding the MD-90s to their fleet for two reasons. The MD-90 carries about the same number of passengers as an A319 or A320 and can be used t
63 dlatl37 : Any update on the Delta MD-88 and MD-90 flight deck upgrade? It was rumored as being looked at to allow for a common flight deck and ratings with Boei
64 dlramp4life : Airlines today are about profits, not sex appeal. Very well thought out list FSDan. I agree the routes that the 717 could fill are limitless and coul
65 FSDan : They mostly use them on ATL-SNA and ATL-Central and South America (TGU, BOG, UIO). Also they do some filler flights from ATL (like ATL-CHS and ATL-EW
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