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Delta Skymiles Revamp?  
User currently offlineairtran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12092 times:
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I have heard a rumor that this summer Delta will radically change the way Skymiles are earned. No longer will you be given miles based on distance flown, but they will be given based on the fare that you pay. Personally I hate the idea, but we'll see how it actually plays out. DL seems to be adopting the system of AF/KL, but will the frequent fliers just accept it or revolt?


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12055 times:

About time if so...

Southwest, Jetblue, Virgin America all already do this based on the fare you purchased.

The conversion ratio though I think might differ between carriers?

Delta if this is true will be the first Legacy to switch to a Revenue Based Mileage Award System.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlinemichman From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12042 times:

No way would they make such a dramatic change in the middle of the Medallion program year (assuming Medallion qualifying points would also be revenue based). Sorry, but I give zero credence to this rumor.

[Edited 2012-03-18 17:26:10]

User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 12039 times:

Quoting michman (Reply 2):
No way would they make such a dramatic change in the middle of the Medallion program year. Sorry, but I give zero credence to this rumor.

Southwest changed theirs in the middle of the "earning year".

Al WN did was simply transfer and converted it into the new system. Delta, if again true, would do the same thing.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 12010 times:

Quoting michman (Reply 2):
No way would they make such a dramatic change in the middle of the Medallion program year. Sorry, but I give zero credence to this rumor.

Unless they announce it mid year to take effedt Jan. 1, 2013. I dont think it is likely but just my 2 cents worth.


User currently offlinemichman From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 12013 times:

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 3):
Southwest changed theirs in the middle of the "earning year".

Al WN did was simply transfer and converted it into the new system. Delta, if again true, would do the same thing.

Alex

WN's "elite" program is dramatically different than the legacy program's. It's possible that DL could announce something this summer for the 2013 earnings year, but no way do I see them actually making a change effective this summer.


User currently offlineflyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 12002 times:

Quoting michman (Reply 2):
No way would they make such a dramatic change in the middle of the Medallion program year (assuming Medallion qualifying points would also be revenue based). Sorry, but I give zero credence to this rumor.

I agree - Delta would not do something this dramatic in the middle of the year. Second, although the LCC's do this, I would imagine that Delta is smart enough to wait and see what the survey's of their highest medallion membership say about this. You don't go pissing off the top 20% of your revenue.....(Since something like 5% of Delta's passengers provide over 20% of all revenue)


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11946 times:

From a business standpoint it's an obvious and clear choice.. it makes no sense to give someone who payed $200 the same amount of miles as someone who payed $500.

However, from a soon-to-be Gold Medallion, this is devastating. Most of my miles came from the lower-tier fares..

This is a little o/t but do you still get MQM's when you book through a 3rd party (expedi, travelo, etc..)?

[Edited 2012-03-18 17:40:30]


Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinemichman From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11932 times:

I would add that there were a number of rumors last Fall that United was going to switch to a largely revenue based program for their elite status tiers. The rumors turned out to be completely unfounded.

[Edited 2012-03-18 17:42:50]

User currently onlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3589 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11914 times:

Delta already has a fare based system....lower fares earn 100%, Y, B, and M fares and F/J class fares earn 150%

I don't think they would make it less attractive than it is now, since skymiles inflation is already so bad.


User currently offlinemichman From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11891 times:

Quoting ghifty (Reply 7):
This is a little o/t but do you still get MQM's when you book through a 3rd party (expedi, travelo, etc..)?

Yes, you still get MQM's when booking through 3rd parties (except for Priceline name your own price tickets).


User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1690 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11818 times:
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It's coming...or something very similar...the slimeball running SkyMiles is full of himself and his ego has been determined the past few years to eliminate elites who don't pay top dollar. All you have to do is look at how the program has been weakened against the selling-up of Delta's product.

User currently offlinescutfarcus From United States of America, joined May 2000, 391 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11773 times:

Scary idea. Considering United is offering status match for a pretty reasonable amount of flights this year, I will hedge my bets, earn Gold on United, and if Delta does this, then good bye Delta, hello United. Granted, if one does it, it's likely the other legacies will too... definitely not a fan of this concept!

User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11666 times:

Whatever...SkyPesos are practically worthless anyways compared to the other legacies. No problems redeeming miles on UA/AA/WN, DL has NEVER let me redeem my miles for the base levels.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7527 posts, RR: 28
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11668 times:

It is something that DL has wanted to do, it is a question of if they will be the first to jump or if they will wait for somone else to make the shift.

As n7371f has said, it is something they have wanted to do, realizing there will be many reprocussions, but its a matter if the others will follow and/or head this way.

Whatever the change it won't be effective in the middle of a program year. So I think we are safe for the 2012 program year.

The question is whether they will cut-over all at once or if they will do it gradually to add some type of revenue qualifying promtion. They are many ways - good and bad, they could change this.

This rumor has been out there awhile, we'll see what happens when we get there.


User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1690 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11626 times:
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Quoting scutfarcus (Reply 12):
Scary idea. Considering United is offering status match for a pretty reasonable amount of flights this year, I will hedge my bets, earn Gold on United, and if Delta does this, then good bye Delta, hello United. Granted, if one does it, it's likely the other legacies will too... definitely not a fan of this concept!

True. But with all the mergers, how many choices do you have? It's only a few years now until all the programs resemble one another. Collusion? That's up to someone else to determine. But what we're seeing are the results of taking Northwest, Continental, AirTran, Midwest and America West out of the market. Competition only helps the customer.

[Edited 2012-03-18 18:38:42]

User currently offlinealitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4744 posts, RR: 45
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11608 times:

As the Magic Eight Ball states - "All signs point to yes...." Rewarding customers based on the revenue earned from those customers is smart business sense and is most likely the way of the future for airlines.

Transparently Delta has worked to earn incremental revenue out of every passenger through unbundling of services, monetization of first-class, using captive audience to create a potential new media touchpoint for Agencies and other marketers to tap into.

I'm afraid The Carpenters had it right when they sang "We've only just begun...." The future of FF programs and the way consumers will earn rewards in them is potentially at a major cusp. All the airlines need is a few smart legacy carriers to jump the mountain and others will follow if it represents significant upside revenue.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlinejr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 968 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11559 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 13):
Whatever...SkyPesos are practically worthless anyways compared to the other legacies. No problems redeeming miles on UA/AA/WN, DL has NEVER let me redeem my miles for the base levels.

  

Didn't delta try this already once where they did not give full elite qualification credit for fares lower than K?

It is practically impossible to redeem miles for the lowest award tiers on DL. As someone noted, they already have a somewhat revenue based model based on their Y, B, M fare classes. I thought the whole point in giving full mileage credit for all fares was why they devalued the miles by making redeeming the lower tiers impossible. If they tack on more restrictions based on fare classes, its going to be worthless from a mileage earning standpoing.

I have been platinum for the last 4 years straight and platinum or gold for pretty much the last decade. I travel for work a decent amount, but we always get the non-refundable fares these days. So even from a business travel stanpoint it is not going to be easy to earn miles if the new restrictions on accrual come to be. Will have to wait and see if this is really true and how the other legacies follow.



I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlinenwafflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 1050 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11464 times:

I have been a NW/DL platinum member for over 12 years now. In the next few flights I will be a million mile member - if I have to go back to 'ground zero' on this one, I'll start driving

User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2992 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11468 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 9):

I don't think they would make it less attractive than it is now, since skymiles inflation is already so bad.
Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 13):
Whatever...SkyPesos are practically worthless anyways compared to the other legacies. No problems redeeming miles on UA/AA/WN, DL has NEVER let me redeem my miles for the base levels.

Exactly, I've written about this before too. DL awards are a joke. I looked at some potential trips this fall (not even peak summer time). Southeast Asia? 105,000 miles and that's not including the non-stop SEA-NRT flight. SJC-CMN? Same thing and nothing at all on SLC-CDG, but rather a 12 hour layover in ATL.

UIO? AA has First Class for 60,000. DL wants 80,000 for the same days for Coach.

DLH for the Grandma's Marathon? Forget it. MSP for 25,000? Surely you jest.

They can get away with it as long as the consumer keeps tolerating it. AA and AS aren't quite as good as they used to be either, but far better that DL still.

It's like baggage fees. As long as the consumers keep flying DL they couldn't care less whether you are happy with FF awards. As long as people keep flying all the legacies and paying first bag fees, rather than defecting to WN, they are going to keep doing it.

People need to start voting with their wallets. Fly AS and AA, rather than DL and see if they do something about the joke of an award program.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11444 times:

Although it is a very very small amount of flyers this will prevent people from trying to book all types of connections just to gain miles by flying more. There is a very small amount of people who try to look for all types of weird routings and connections just to gain miles. I doubt that is really their motivation but more just giving out less miles overall and rewarding the people who are buying these expensive last minute tickets more and giving out less to the bargain hunters.

Delta miles are so impossibly hard to redeem i cant imagine anyone wanting to stay on a plane to get more. Personally i would never want to fly out of the way for miles as they are worth so little now days but i guess there are people out there with tons of free time or really have nothing better they need to be doing. Maybe im just jealous there are people out there with so much free time...


User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3252 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11415 times:

Quoting n7371f (Reply 11):
It's coming...or something very similar...the slimeball running SkyMiles is full of himself and his ego has been determined the past few years to eliminate elites who don't pay top dollar. All you have to do is look at how the program has been weakened against the selling-up of Delta's product.

Classy.

Let's be real. This refocusing of SkyMiles is being driven at the highest levels of the company. A great deal of care is being taken to ensure mistakes of the past are not repeated. But none of us know that the final program will look like. In the meantime, the personal attacks are pathetic.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11367 times:

Quoting airtran737 (Thread starter):
Personally I hate the idea,

...because the ones you earn now are just soooo useful?

Either way, doing it by fare makes sense. Already the super-elite semi-secret tiers some airlines have (like GS) are based on fare rather than mileage.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineatcsundevil From Germany, joined Mar 2010, 1147 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11288 times:

Quoting michman (Reply 8):
I would add that there were a number of rumors last Fall that United was going to switch to a largely revenue based program for their elite status tiers. The rumors turned out to be completely unfounded.

Actually, my understanding is that it was seriously being considered as part of the new MileagePlus program, but when the discussion leaked and the subsequent upheaval took place, they relented and likely decided this was not the year to implement such a radical change. (Someone who knows better, please correct me if needed.)


Personally, I would be surprised if this is actually true. I think that this clearly is the way of the future for elite programs, but I'd be surprised if Delta is the one to make the first move. If it is true, I think the other legacies might hold back to see the results -- it could be a wise financial decision or it could end up being a disaster to their FF program. Although, I can't say I'd be surprised if the entire industry shifted to this at the same time; it isn't an opportunity for change that should be passed up because the backlash wouldn't be directed at them, but rather at the industry itself (e.g. baggage fees, elimination of free food in domestic Y, and so on).

Regardless of who does it, it needs to be done and it will be done. Elite programs are supposed to reward those who contribute the most financially to the airline. In the current situation, one could conceivably earn a first elite tier (25k) for less than $1,000. United elites can tell you (including this "Premier Gold") that the combined airline has created millions of elites which completely dilute the benefits. Premier Access may as well mean General Boarding. This is not a sustainable situation at United or for the airline industry in the US in general.

It needs to be done, but I wouldn't want to be the first airline to make such a big change...there are just too many variables.



1954 1974 1990 2014 -- Los geht's!
User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1690 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11133 times:
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Quoting jetlanta (Reply 21):
Classy.

Let's be real. This refocusing of SkyMiles is being driven at the highest levels of the company. A great deal of care is being taken to ensure mistakes of the past are not repeated. But none of us know that the final program will look like. In the meantime, the personal attacks are pathetic.

I disagree. I've had interactions with Jeff. And I've had 3 years now of Delta's program and the condescending communication directly from him and others has left its mark.

If you work at Delta, you should be really concerned about the disconnect between the front-line and on-board service versus the prickly image of SkyMiles and the attitude many HVC's have toward the loyalty program. That's all on one guy.

[Edited 2012-03-18 20:59:04]

25 cloudboy : Problem is, you have to think about how your ticket sales work, and what motivates your sales. Elite programs are there to encourage people to fly you
26 SNCntry32 : I have heard that this will be how upgrades are earned, based on fare, but not miles.
27 mayor : If your communications with him and DL are anything like the attitude displayed in your posts, I can understand why DL might feel that way towards yo
28 TSS : If the new program is to be based on fares paid rather than miles flown, is it safe to assume that it will no longer be called "Skymiles"? Will the n
29 burj : Switching from a miles based system to a revenue based system could have un-intended consequences... It will clearly make it much harder to get and ma
30 usdcaguy : The exception to this are situations where business travelers are forced to buy their tickets at the last minute and have a choice of carrier through
31 Post contains images einsteinboricua : Maybe it's a redenomination, with 10 SkyMiles=1 new SkyMile.
32 Post contains links Av8rDAL : I live in ATL and achieved Gold Medallion (the highest I ever got) and suppose I have some room for comment... I achieved this by adhering to a compan
33 theflcowboy : This sounds like something that is going to hurt more than help. Example: I live in Knoxville, which has (or seems like it has) some of the highest ai
34 nyc2theworld : United didn't create new elites out of thin air. These elites were elites with the old MP already or OnePass. All MP did was give 75,000-99,999 their
35 IADLHR : I am sure it will probably lead to revenue growth. On the other hand it it doesnt and there is a major revolt by the FF elite and pax flee to another
36 xkorpyoh : Delta is my favorite U.S. legacy network carrier, but I gave up on them this year because they make it so hard to use the miles at the base levels. Fo
37 tockeyhockey : can i just take a moment to complain? delta skymiles has lost me as a loyal member recently. i managed to deal with the radical inflation on mileage r
38 georgiaame : My 2 MQMs: If you have a mileage program, you offer "miles". Fly 100, get 100. Now, if you want to be nice, you give a bonus, as in Delta's 50% boost
39 TVNWZ : They can do what they want. It's a company for profit. Either way you cut it I will be Diamond, so personally it will have no affect. However, as has
40 staralliance85 : DL Sky Pesos is already on of the Worst FF programs!! If they do anymore changes then all e elites will flock to UA, AA and/or US. DL already has a tr
41 syncmaster : Exactly, I'm technically committed to purchasing the cheapest fare possible (although I admit that in some cases I have chosen Delta over another car
42 diverdave : In my experience, most of the negative rumors about future SkyMiles changes come true. Makes for quite the tempest over on FlyerTalk. SkyMiles is les
43 threeifbyair : I live in the corner of the US (SEA), bought only "T" fares last year, and didn't even get 20k miles while spending quite a bit more than $1k. Unless
44 TOMMY767 : If this rumor has any validity to it, for flyers with former elite status (such as myself) it makes more and more sense to just get the Delta Skymiles
45 usairways85 : Well this was "leaked". You never know if they wanted to see how people responded. As above UA may jump with them, though it may not be able to handl
46 slcdeltarumd11 : Personally Delta is my favorite airline but I agree skypesos are almost impossible to use compared to UA or AA miles. Delta constantly fails me for re
47 brilondon : I think that it is fair. You should reward those who pay more for the same distance, not for just the distance flown. This system makes sense to me. W
48 TOMMY767 : I like Delta a lot too. Their customer service beats out United's any day of the week. But overall MP is a better program than Sky Peco. I couldn't b
49 Post contains images LAXintl : I would strongly welcome such a change. Airlines are finally albeit slowly coming to the realizing that revenue based system as utilized in many othe
50 usairways85 : Which is why airlines have the "unspoken" top tier that is based on spend (Global Services, Concierage Key, etc.)
51 tockeyhockey : if you buy business or first class seats you often get priority boarding, free bags, priority security, access to lounges, free food and drink, etc.
52 FlyPNS1 : But that doesn't help separate out amongst all the other lower tiers many of which have some higher spenders mixed in with many lower spenders. I kno
53 jetlanta : So if I can sum this thread up... Everyone hates SkyMiles. Delta better not change SkyMiles. Is that about right? Here is a thought. Part of the reaso
54 jetlanta : You got it.
55 AAIL86 : I doubt it can be done for $1000. Even with grabbing some of those super cheap LAX-JFK fares , I'd say its a minium of $2000. Exactly- those tiers ar
56 DTWHKG : My guess is they don't need to -- a large number of DL flyers will flock to them.
57 usairways85 : This issue can be broken down in any number of ways, but I understand your point and it makes sense. Although do remember that airlines are continuin
58 KingFriday013 : Nahh... US is pretty much ditching LGA come Sunday (and there's no way I'm going to EWR). I'm silver on DL now but if this goes forward... might just
59 mcogator : Business travelers who purchase last minute Y fairs will like this, but it doesn't mean DL will earn more business from it. They're still going to pur
60 timpdx : I don't really have that big an issue with Skymiles, when I am using skymiles its for a vacation so I am more flexible. I looked last year to go to Pe
61 nyc2theworld : Hotels are based on stays and/or nights. Not on revenue. Only HHonors has an actual qualifying points that equates revenue to status. (Similar to get
62 LAXintl : Keep in mind guys, the industry unfortunately has created a monster with the mileage programs by having chosen to make earning points and elite status
63 jetblueguy22 : Man first 40,000 miles to redeem a bottom of the barrel ticket and now this. I hope this is just a rumor. Because if it comes true I might have to hop
64 jr : I think this iis a big wild card that the legacies have to watch out for. On international routes, if the miles did not matter, the likes of Emirates
65 usairways85 : From an RDM standpoint yes, although airlines have made it tougher for Joe Schmo with a credit card to redeem his miles. From an elite earning standp
66 lychemsa : I don't like the fact that DL do not offer one way awards. Also don't like the Am Ex credit card link up. I prefer VISA. Until recently they required
67 LAXintl : You should look deeper into the hotel programs. The most basic point earnings is based on revenue for the larger programs. For example Marriott $1 =
68 s4popo : This is quite rational and makes complete sense for a company creating a loyalty program from scratch. However, it's a lot more difficult once the ca
69 slcdeltarumd11 : It's amazing there's one user on here that gets his panties in a knot anytime someone even says anything remotely negative about delta. We know we get
70 nyc2theworld : Except someone who spends 10,000 for 75 qualifying nights may get more free nights (due to more points) but gets the same on property benefits for so
71 Post contains images TVNWZ : You would earn more miles than me on a LUT fare, today, if you SPEND more for the B fare. A lot more. The frequent activity is profitable.The lower f
72 KaiGywer : I was able to redeem a trip for 25,000 mile for May but it took some messing around. Roundtrip ticket was 40,000...but 4 oneways with multicity searc
73 cloudboy : They have already tried it. It used to be that low tier fares either didn't get upgrades or didn't get points. Notice that it is no longer the case -
74 diverdave : And with Hilton, award stays count towards Hilton elite status qualification. David
75 nyc2theworld : And one would have to earn at least 1.3 million HHonors BASE points before they would have enough points to stay in a Category 3 or 4 hotel. You woul
76 TSS : Delta also offers (or offered) a Skymiles Mastercard. I have never seen the Skymiles Mastercard advertised at all, but I have seen a few of them in u
77 jetlanta : God forbid anyone try to share what might be the thinking behind some of the decisions Delta makes. After all, who'd be interested in that when, inst
78 michman : I assume you are referring to the Suntrust Delta Skymiles card. This is actually a check card, not a credit card.
79 Post contains links KaiGywer : They have the above mentioned debit card in the US, but they also have a Mastercard branded card in Canada only. http://skymilesoffers.delta.com/intl
80 tockeyhockey : nope, not right at all. i sum up this thread as skymiles is already the worst FF program in the US. with these changes, it will be even worse. i thin
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