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AA Flies Back To ORD Bc No Gates At DFW  
User currently offlineLHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 563 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16325 times:

Yesterday evening, a friend of mine was on an AA flight (ORDDFW) yesterday that actually landed at DFW but then returned all the way back up to ORD because there were no gates available. He was rebooked on a new flight this morning. Understandbly, he and the other passengers were very frustrated.

I believe it was flight 2345 at 5:45pm on 3/19. It's secondhand information (and I could be missing a lot of the details), so just wondering if anyone has more insight as to why AA would decide to fly that aircraft all the way back to ORD? I'm interested to know what the rationale is behind this from a logistics point of view. I suspect it has something to do with avoiding the penetalies for leaving passengers stranded on the tarmac for too long. I believe there was some weather in the area, so perhaps that restricted ground crew from being able to attach stairs or even push back empty aircraft from thier gates. Not out to bash AA, just curious.

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMountainFlyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16213 times:

Flightaware shows they did not land but diverted back to ORD because of weather.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...5/history/20120319/2245Z/KORD/KDFW



SA-227; B1900; Q200; Q400; CRJ-2,7,9; 717; 727-2; 737-3,4,5,7,8,9; 747-2; 757-2,3; 767-3,4; MD-90; A319, 320; DC-9; DC-1
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7526 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16185 times:

The flight never actually went to DFW. There was weather in DFW last night, a huge line of storms stretching from Texas up through Missouri.

The flight flew appears to have made to eastern Kansas or northern Oklahoma before turning around and going back to ORD. From your friend's story, it probably felt like they flew to DFW.

DFW may not have been able to take landings, no ramp space, etc. There could've been other diversion locations, but they could've been full with aircraft too.

ORD may have made the most sense to return to since some passengers could take onward connecting flights to their destination, there would be replacement crews available, or a lack of anywhere better to go.

Diversions back to the originating airport are not that uncommon and in some cases may be the best action to leave fewer passengers stranded and allow for a quick service recovery from irregular operations.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2163 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16138 times:

So odd....flight aware is showing that the flight left at 8:03 PM and arrived at 10:43 AM CDT with a duration of 14 hours and 40 minutes, and traveled 3,824 sm.

Either way, AA better give all their AAdvantage members the full EQM and RDM values they actually flew for this flight(s)!!

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...5/history/20120319/2245Z/KORD/KDFW



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlinecubastar From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 407 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16137 times:

Quoting LHUSA (Thread starter):
I believe there was some weather in the area,

There was a LOT of weather here in the DFW area yesterday. High winds throughout the day (gusting to 50-55 mph) with rain beginning late afternoon, major thunderstorms beginning early evening. Heavy line running from San Antonio NNE through the Metroplex on up into Oklahoma. Problem began sooner for the airport as all westbound flights were being held because of the WX west of the airport and then it proceeded directly over the Fort Worth area into the airport area followed by closing in on Dallas. Heavy rain, winds and a LOT of Lightening.


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7499 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16050 times:

Quoting LHUSA (Thread starter):
I believe it was flight 2345 at 5:45pm on 3/19.

Given the time that plane was supposed to land, there was no way it could have touched down at DFW. The weather would not have permitted it. I was in Coppell (which is right by DFW) last night about that time and the amount of rain, wind, hail, and lightning would have made it almost impossible to land.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineLHUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16021 times:

Thanks everyone. I think it's just another classic case of people not understanding the situation and adding their own flare for a dramatic facebook update (I find this so annoying when people say how much they HATE my airline, and it's really them just not understanding how things work...). I was really mostly interested because I thought they already landed and found it odd that no gate space was the reason they turned back. So really, not much out of the ordinary here.

[Edited 2012-03-20 09:52:15]

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7499 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 15942 times:

Quoting LHUSA (Reply 6):
I was really mostly interested because I thought they already landed and found it odd that no gate space was the reason they turned back. So really, not much out of the ordinary here.

If they were able to land, I would bet any amount of money that given the weather, there is no way they would have taken off again.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineAAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3466 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 15808 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 3):
So odd....flight aware is showing that the flight left at 8:03 PM and arrived at 10:43 AM CDT with a duration of 14 hours and 40 minutes, and traveled 3,824 sm.

AA2345 departed ORD at 1929 (gate K20) and arrived ORD at 2308 (gate K5). It again left ORD this morning at 1031 and is planned to arrive DFW at 1304 (gate A17). Both flights have 141 pax listed (one jumpseater) but I doubt they are the same individuals.

AA had 51 flights divert yesterday for DFW weather. 20 remained overnight somewhere (3 to ORD) while 31 refiled and eventually arrived DFW.



*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
User currently offlineipodguy7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 15738 times:

I flew LGA-MKE-DFW with Frontier yesterday, landing at Dallas at 4:30, just before the storm hit, and the MKE-DFW flight was the single most turbulent flight I've ever been on. Going through clouds on initial approach we were thrown every which way, and finally when we broke through the clouds, the winds really set in (the captain had told us that they were gusting up to 60mph surface winds. When we landed the whole plane started clapping, just like the good ole days haha. When we landed, the storms were just starting to hit West Fort Worth, but by the time I got back to North Dallas, the storms were going full storm.


Next Trips: BNA-ORD-LHR-JTR, HER-CPH, CPH-ARN-CPH, CPH-LHR-DFW-BNA, BNA-DFW, DFW-BNA-DFW (X3)
User currently onlineAcey559 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 1523 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 15314 times:

It was pretty nasty down here in Houston earlier today, too. It was funny because I'm here for simulator training and we were flying along in the sim and I asked the instructor if he changed the weather. He said, "Uh no, that's a real thunderstorm going on outside right now!"

User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14959 times:

OK, so getting out of OKC last night and trying to make it to RDU has proven to be a total nightmare.

First off, we were booked on the 1920L flight from OKC to DFW...then overnighting there before continuing on the 0630 flight from DFW to RDU. OKC flight canx'd due to wx last night (and we got three diverts...one from TUS, one from ELP and one from PHL). Called AA (only took 40 minutes on hold this time, a new shortness record)...they rebooked us on the 0600L to DFW then flying to LGA before getting into RDU around 1500L.

Got to the airport this morning at 0415L...the AA check-in was a mass mob. Agents trying to sort out all the divert pax vs. the OKC local pax...no sense of organization by the AA folks whatsoever (both at check-in and the gate). We got on the plane for the flight to DFW...only for someone to literally come on at 0600L and tell us the flight was now canx'd and we had to get off and call AA ourselves, as they weren't willing to help us because of the divert people that were now their top priority. Called AA...got cut off after holding for 2 hours. Talked to agent...she said "best of luck, there's nothing I can do for you to get you into Raleigh until Thursday at the earliest." What about putting us on another airline? "No, we don't do that in these cases."

My wife and I are now at OKC for the third time in less than 24 hours...and we have confirmed tix on WN to RDU via STL. Pending this actually goes off ok, we'll only be 12 hours behind schedule once we get into Raleigh tonight.

Wx in DFW metroplex is no laughing matter, and being a former Metr major at OU, I completely understand the havoc it wreaks on the system. But I do have a few observations:
1. This is evidence as to the huge fallacy of the hub and spoke system...the hub gets smacked, the spokes get screwed. Yes, WN has "hubs," but if there's ever a snarl like this, they still almost always leave you with plenty of other connecting options through other cities (even if it's via Timbuktu).
2. I understand it's a stressful situation for the AA agents...but stress is your best chance to shine, and the ones in OKC have not demonstrated an ounce of professionalism and politeness to a great deal of pax today...which is one of the big reasons why I switched my business to WN. Yah, so you're in Chapter 11...don't take it out on us.
3. I know ATC and Wx delays are "outside the airline's control," but to not even investigate transferring our tix to another carrier just seems like pure laziness...unless somehow corporate policies have changed since the BK filing.

Anyways...AA canx'd one flight to DFW last night from here...and three more today...and with Spring Break in full swing here, there's several hundred displaced and disgruntled AA pax in OKC who are not impressed with the operation.


User currently offlinexjramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2460 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14887 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 11):
I know ATC and Wx delays are "outside the airline's control," but to not even investigate transferring our tix to another carrier just seems like pure laziness...unless somehow corporate policies have changed since the BK filing.

Laziness? With rumors (idk if its actually been confirmed) about the layoffs floating around, I would expect AA employees to stick directly with their rules and not stray from them one bit.

Annoying? Absolutely. But, if I were in their shoes, I would be telling you the same thing, especially since my job is on the line.



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14840 times:

Quoting xjramper (Reply 12):
But, if I were in their shoes, I would be telling you the same thing, especially since my job is on the line.

So not following pre-established guidlines to assist pax in need will save your job...but offering to help someone affected by your airline's travel disruptions might get you laid off...brilliant logic if it's really the case!


User currently offline747fan From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1185 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14559 times:

I was down there so I can give a first hand account of the bedlam in DFW yesterday. I made the mistake of non-revving down to DFW for the afternoon/evening. We landed at about 16:45, well before all hell broke loose but it was already windy - I could see whitecaps out on Lake Dallas & Grapevine Lake on final approach (it was bumpy, but not abnormally so).
DFW got completely hammered starting around 18:15-18:30 with the ramp being closed for probably 3 hours & Skylink service had to be halted as well.So obviously numerous airplanes were either stuck at the gates or out on the ramp/taxiways during that mess. Heavy rain, wind & lots of lightning basically all night.
My 19:50 flight to SDF eventually got cancelled at around 21:00 but luckily I was able to list & get on a flight to BNA, otherwise I'd surely still be stranded there! The place was an absolute cluster last night - super long lines at every gate podium & stranded people sleeping in cots everywhere. Apparently the bedlam carried over into today as well.


User currently offlineusafret From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 12199 times:

We had 3 MD 80s in STL for divert and Ron. I arrived at DFW around 10:00 am and you could tell on approach the massive amount of rain. We had heavy chop on approach in our 757 and we were on the back end of the front hours later. Probably most rain in DFW in several years so AA had a lot to deal with.

User currently offlinedfwagt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 80 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9931 times:

[quote=AWACSooner,reply=11] I know ATC and Wx delays are "outside the airline's control," but to not even investigate transferring our tix to another carrier just seems like pure laziness...unless somehow corporate policies have changed since the BK filing.


Everyone's an expert  


User currently offline_AA_777_MAN From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 178 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 9256 times:

There were actually 2 ORD-DFW flights that made it more than half way to DFW and then diverted back to ORD. At one point there was a 3 hour ground stop at DFW.

User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8803 times:

Quoting dfwagt (Reply 16):

What airline would they have looked at that would not be having the same issues as them? They would not move it to WN for example so it would be to a major. They would have to prioritise connecting customers stranded and local joiners added to the mix makes for long delays in seeing an agent, especially if a small station. I'd be doing the same thing. Now UK rules are different to US but if there was a mass weather event at a station, I'm sure every ailine heir would have the same issue be it a direct or a Oxnard via another point and they would have their own customers rebooking, let alone other carriers, especially at peak periods. It's all well and good being the other side, but I would highly recommend coming the other side and seeing it From the agents perspective when issues like this come across, yes we really con into our own but their is only so much that can be done.


User currently offlineTrnsWrld From United States of America, joined May 1999, 924 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7893 times:

Sounds like your friend tweaked his story a little lol.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7513 times:

Quoting xjramper (Reply 12):
Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 11):I know ATC and Wx delays are "outside the airline's control," but to not even investigate transferring our tix to another carrier just seems like pure laziness...unless somehow corporate policies have changed since the BK filing.
Laziness? With rumors (idk if its actually been confirmed) about the layoffs floating around, I would expect AA employees to stick directly with their rules and not stray from them one bit.
Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 13):
Quoting xjramper (Reply 12):But, if I were in their shoes, I would be telling you the same thing, especially since my job is on the line.
So not following pre-established guidlines to assist pax in need will save your job...but offering to help someone affected by your airline's travel disruptions might get you laid off...brilliant logic if it's really the case!
Quoting dfwagt (Reply 16):
Everyone's an expert

No, dfwagt, AWACSSooner is absolutly correct. I am retired from DFW Airport and I have seen many, many weather incidents like this one. AA has never put on their best customer service face, and has consistanly screwed their customers, actually holding them hostage, so to speak, by not transferring them to a carrier that can accomadate them. The heavy handed union practices at AA, along with gross mismangement is why AA is where it is today, in bankruptcy. In situations like this one, AA has DEMANDED the airport take care of THEIR customers, which DFW attempts to do. But the airport is very limited in what they can do. DFW does have a plan to keep the concessions open for something like this. AA does not pay the airport a dime for this 'service'. They don't transfer customers to another carrier because it will cost them money. They do not offer to put stranded customers up in hotels/motels (around DFW these motels grow up like weeds) because it will cost AA money. They do not usually keep staff beyond the end of their shift, because it costs them money.

AA has their customer's money and they are going to keep it, that is the unofficial position of AA. They are loyal to no one, except themselves.

So, yes, dfwagt, everyone is an expert, except, apparently the union members and management of AA. You got to go home at the end of your shift and sleep in your own bed, not on the floor or in chairs at Terminals A, C, or D. If the lines got to long for you, you probibly took off to the AA Cafateria under Terminal A on the ramp, for a 'break'. But what relief did your customers have as they stand in line for hours on end or talking on their cell phones to AA, if they could even get through.


User currently offlinedfwagt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 80 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6669 times:

[quote=KC135TopBoom,reply=20]

That could be true, but I hung until 2am where as that was 13 hours for me. My other two co workers, until 5am. The problem with people here is they assume. We had to handle the the GRU flight, that the crew went illegal because ATC could not give them a routing out of DFW. After we got all of the pax sorted out on that flight, we handled whoever came our way. I then went back the next morning, 2 1/2 hrs before my shift started to finish the flight off. So before everyone starts the AA, UA, DL agent bashing, remember that not all of us are the same.


User currently offlinesyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2020 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6589 times:
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Quoting dfwagt (Reply 21):
So before everyone starts the AA, UA, DL agent bashing, remember that not all of us are the same.

Exactly. We only ever hear about the bad apples, which are fewer than one might imagine.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6029 times:

Quoting dfwagt (Reply 21):

Cant agree more. AA staff at LHR are most helpful when I go over for assistance with a customer


User currently offlinemilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1991 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5922 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 20):
No, dfwagt, AWACSSooner is absolutly correct. I am retired from DFW Airport and I have seen many, many weather incidents like this one. AA has never put on their best customer service face, and has consistanly screwed their customers, actually holding them hostage, so to speak, by not transferring them to a carrier that can accomadate them. The heavy handed union practices at AA, along with gross mismangement is why AA is where it is today, in bankruptcy. In situations like this one, AA has DEMANDED the airport take care of THEIR customers, which DFW attempts to do. But the airport is very limited in what they can do. DFW does have a plan to keep the concessions open for something like this. AA does not pay the airport a dime for this 'service'. They don't transfer customers to another carrier because it will cost them money. They do not offer to put stranded customers up in hotels/motels (around DFW these motels grow up like weeds) because it will cost AA money. They do not usually keep staff beyond the end of their shift, because it costs them money.

AA has their customer's money and they are going to keep it, that is the unofficial position of AA. They are loyal to no one, except themselves.

So, yes, dfwagt, everyone is an expert, except, apparently the union members and management of AA. You got to go home at the end of your shift and sleep in your own bed, not on the floor or in chairs at Terminals A, C, or D. If the lines got to long for you, you probibly took off to the AA Cafateria under Terminal A on the ramp, for a 'break'. But what relief did your customers have as they stand in line for hours on end or talking on their cell phones to AA, if they could even get through.

Yes, let's bash the unions and management. The last time I checked, American occupied three of DFW's terminals, and without them, the airport would not have all that much traffic.

Why should American have to pay the airport to stay open when weather delays cause flights to operate into the late night hours? There was a time when major airports like DAL, ORD, MKC, STL, ATL had flights that operated through the night. Departures at 1:00 a.m.; 2:00 a.m.; 3:00 a.m. etc. And all those workers for American that try to serve the public and put a smile on their face who work late when these things occur, I am sure they don't care. I mean, who would ever think that a lowly union worker has a personal life or a family.

I just "love" it when someone who works for the government, whether its a branch of the DOD, or for a local government authority like a an airport board weighs in and slings garbage at union workers or corporate management.


25 AAIL86 : Having previously worked through events like these multiple times in my career in several different roles- as well as experiencing this sort of thing
26 SATexan : Just a curious question: Which airline(s) currently put passengers standed due to weather issues in hotels / motels? The concessions gain a lot of bu
27 Post contains images fxramper : figures a company in chp 11 couldn't send an a/c to AUS or OKC instead of 800 mi back to ORD.
28 AWACSooner : Thank you so much for your wonderful compliment. It's stuff like that and what I experienced in OKC with AA yesterday that keeps the majority of my b
29 dfwagt : Well, that's good. I guess you do know that AA and WN do not have any agreements. Certainly out of OKC, the options are limited, especially as it's Sp
30 Logos : When it comes to weather and other "acts of God", no airline has responsibility (or a policy) to put up a passenger in a hotel or transfer them to ano
31 Post contains images stasisLAX : More than just a little, it seems.
32 KC135TopBoom : Why should the airport have to pay? It's not our customers, it is the airlines's customers. You may not know this but AA has one of the finest, best
33 AWACSooner : Yes, they did. They literally told me and my wife to our faces, "You are on your own...best of luck." Which I why I then went to WN...and why AA is a
34 jcs17 : It happens. My greatest/worst story of this happening was flying into GFK from MSP. It was the last flight of the night, maybe a 10:20PM departure. As
35 PSU.DTW.SCE : AUS and OKC were already likely full of diverts. A lesson learned through past experiences is that diversion airports can only accomodate a certain n
36 Mir : That is how things work now, yes. And how expensive would it be to have all those buses chartered and ready to go? In today's world of bargain baseme
37 dfwagt : [quote=AWACSooner,reply=33]...and why AA is at the top of my **** list right now We are at the top of a lot of people's s**t list now, but because you
38 ual1kflyer : LHUSA, I was down in DFW on Monday night on UX 3748 to ORD. The big problem as 747fan said was the lightening. The inbound plane for us was from ORD l
39 usflyer msp : How does the airport pay for concessions to stay open? At least here at MSP, it is in the lease that the concessions stay will stay open late and the
40 AWACSooner : No, OKC wasn't...we only got 3...one from TUS, one from ELP, and one from PHL. I sincerely hope you didn't mean that last statement, because that is
41 Logos : Just out of curiosity were you traveling with a Military ID those times and not this time? I have two sons in the Marines and my experience the airli
42 PSU.DTW.SCE : Look, I've got the "you're on your own, best of luck...." in one shape or form from AA, NW, DL, UA. Frankly, it is bound to happen sometimes. Most of
43 dfwagt : [quote=AWACSooner,reply=40]I sincerely hope you didn't mean that last statement Sure, I did. If we are unable to do the job, then I am going to try to
44 AWACSooner : Then you missed my point...THEY DIDN'T GET THE JOB DONE!!! They brushed me aside like I wasn't important. I offered them several alternative options.
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