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UA LAX Gate Agent 'meltdown' Flight 90 LAX-EWR  
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 30817 times:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...situation-unbelievable-agents.html

"

Quote:
I was on the flight 90 debacle yesterday at LAX; in my million+ miles with the airline, this was the first one where I was thisclose to calling 911 due to the situation getting out of hand.

Flight 90 is a 757-300 LAX-EWR that continues onto Tel Aviv on new metal in EWR. Inbound equipment was about 3 hours late due to mechanical issues...and after a few more hours of mechanical issues on the ground, they decided to ground the plane...and after an hour after that, they decided to use a 757-200 that was parked at LAX to run the flight. Total delay of about 6 hours. Throughout the process, there was a total lack of information or help from any agents (or on the phone with the Premiere hotline) and they handled the downgraded equipment absolutely horribly.



Pretty frightening stuff. Apparently on Sunday UA 90 (LAX-EWR-TLV) got downgraded from a 753 to a 752 and caused a wave of passenger upheaval. The thread starter said he was "bumped" from a first class seat (full fare tix) to completely losing his seat and being told "there are other people that need to be seated up front." In addition to this, verbal fights between PMCO gate agents and customers were occuring blaming the merger on the customers (!!!) If you read the thread you will be shocked to read that a PMCO gate agent told an old man "Want to take this outside" as well as several of them dropping numerous F-bombs towards customers. Completely unnacceptable for the new United.

My big question: How do these PMCO gate agents get away with this? Had this been EWR I'm pretty sure there would have been some black eyes involved.

[Edited 2012-03-20 14:49:08 by srbmod]


"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
131 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1555 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 30737 times:

That just sounds horrible. I can say with my recent travel experiences with United that everyone from the pilots and flight attendants down to the gate agents and customer service reps. are extremely frustrated with the way the integration of the reservation systems and such have been going. I am sure a lot of the frustration the agents had were building up over the past few weeks and this flight just so happened to be the one they exploded on. On that note however, it was still way out of line and extremely unprofessional of them.

I suggest you write a serious letter to United detailing your entire experience with the situation so it does not happen again.



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2412 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 30597 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Thread starter):

My big question: How do these PMCO gate agents get away with this? Had this been EWR I'm pretty sure there would have been some black eyes involved.

No doubt. The OP on FlyerTalk has been contacted by several CS managers and higher-ups from Chicago to determine what exactly happened in this situation. To take nothing away from the fact that it was a disastrous customer service nightmare and clearly grounds for employee discipline up to and including dismissal (see Fly To Win handbook), it seems that this was caused by some inexperienced gate agents dealing with a difficult irrops situation with very, very little support from supervisors.

As it stands, each customer involved in this debacle will be offered generous compensation for their trouble, but even then it is likely to be insufficient to make up for the deplorable treatment they received from the staff and tremendous inconvenience they were subject to.

The situation will be thoroughly investigated. My inclination is that the station manager will be reprimanded, the agents directly involved will receive remedial training and probably will be reassigned, and the middle-level supervisors responsible for these gates will have their rear-ends on the line. Of course, I am not purporting to have any inside information on this matter, just a familiarity with the procedures involved when something like this happens.


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2412 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 30480 times:

Furthermore, I'm glad you cross-posted this here, TOMMY767. This story demands greater media attention as the situation on the ground at CO/UA airports is reaching a boiling point. The C-suite in the Windy City needs to refocus on customer service as these integration-related difficulties are rampant. Employee morale is as low as I have ever seen on both sides of the house and virtually anyone's once-favorable outlook on this merger has, at best, dimmed.

Meanwhile, the Pollyanna Squad (led by Jeff Smisek) is running around to the media and investors trumpeting how well the merger has gone. From a financial standpoint, yes, things are good, but when your best customers are furious and the company's public image is taking a brutal beating because of serious operational issues, rest assured those results will not continue in perpetuity.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 30447 times:

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 1):
are extremely frustrated with the way the integration of the reservation systems and such have been going. I

Yeah PMUA employees do not like SHARES at all. Quite frankly I don't blame them. The training period to learn it was incredibly fast and now they are having issues.

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 1):
I suggest you write a serious letter to United detailing your entire experience with the situation so it does not happen again.

This wasn't me. I read this on flyertalk and thought this needs to be mentioned on a.net.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 2):
The situation will be thoroughly investigated. My inclination is that the station manager will be reprimanded, the agents directly involved will receive remedial training and probably will be reassigned, and the middle-level supervisors responsible for these gates will have their rear-ends on the line. Of course, I am not purporting to have any inside information on this matter, just a familiarity with the procedures involved when something like this happens.

Did this get any media coverage? If it did I'm sure it would be a little different of a response time from upper mgmt.

My question is had this been a PMUA LAX staff I think things would have been different:

1. Getting the proper replacement aircraft to show up for the 753 (and not 7 hours later.) Either another 753, a PMUA 757, or a domestic 763 to deal with the overbookings. The fact that the other flight to EWR that was boarding at the same time (likely a 738) shows that UA really needs to consider flying round the clock 757s or larger on LAX-EWR. Seems like most of the flights are overbooked.

2. Proper compensation. No secret on this forum that CO tried to low ball passenger during their IRROPS (case in point EWR) and while CO FF's sucked up and deal, I don't think that PMUA flyers will accept this same kind of treatment. PMUA gate agents gave out vouchures like drunken sailors. For a passenger being involved in this, 25K miles or $500 United Dollars doesn't do it.

3. Rebookings. Why did they tell the pax that they had to wait? What about the other 9 hubs that they could have routed passenger through to get home. Seems like this PMCO staff just didn't care.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineBC77008 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 30227 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 4):
This wasn't me. I read this on flyertalk and thought this needs to be mentioned on a.net.

Why do you feel that way?



"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4278 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 30206 times:

I flew through ORD the other day trying to fly to ATW. The agents I came across were the crabbiest UA agents I have ever encountered. I was travelling on a simple ZED fare. Well here is what happened. In order to use a ZED fare to list on UA, you have to go online as the airport agents aren't allowed to list, and if you call UA, you will be charged for listing. Naturally of course, the flight was full. Now it gets interesting. They don't even roll over the standby lists anymore, and furthermore, although the agent did relist me for a later flight, she said in the future when I don't get on a standby flight, I have to relist just to catch the next one.

So I go back the next day, and the kiosk won't let me check in just because I have a paper ticket. All we need is a boarding pass, nothing more. So of course the UA agent puts me in a line with a bunch of revenue passengers who were all having problems with their itinerary. It was a disaster and UA didn't have enough agents dealing with this, and the agents that were were very rude. Eventually I said screw it and rented a car (from MDW because ORD was sold out) to drive the 3 hours.

This is an even bigger mess than US/HP was, and that wasn't no bed of roses either. UA has rushed everything about this merger, and the result is that PMUA pilots still aren't comfortable with new procedures, and now the CS angle. It is a mess.


User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1537 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 30174 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 4):
Yeah PMUA employees do not like SHARES at all. Quite frankly I don't blame them. The training period to learn it was incredibly fast and now they are having issues.

When you go from doing point and click on one page of Apollo, to using six pages on Shares for the same action. This makes your job difficult. I know they had to use Shares because of the cost. The IT department needs to upgrade Shares right away.

On the ramp side. The CO bags tags are garbage compared to the UA ones. The UA ones were light years ahead of the CO ones. Larger font, easy to read, destinations and customer names on spur tags. We are having a hard time with them.


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2412 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 30162 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 4):

1. Getting the proper replacement aircraft to show up for the 753 (and not 7 hours later.) Either another 753, a PMUA 757, or a domestic 763 to deal with the overbookings. The fact that the other flight to EWR that was boarding at the same time (likely a 738) shows that UA really needs to consider flying round the clock 757s or larger on LAX-EWR. Seems like most of the flights are overbooked.

The operational realities of running an airline sort of preclude this. As far as overbooking flights, that wasn't the issue here, in general, no-show rates are quite predictable. The flight became a Class A oversale because a 757-300 (216 seats) was swapped for a 757-200 (169 seats).

Unfortunately, in this era of reducing capacity in the face of increasing demand, there is very little room for errors of this magnitude.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 4):

2. Proper compensation. No secret on this forum that CO tried to low ball passenger during their IRROPS (case in point EWR) and while CO FF's sucked up and deal, I don't think that PMUA flyers will accept this same kind of treatment. PMUA gate agents gave out vouchures like drunken sailors. For a passenger being involved in this, 25K miles or $500 United Dollars doesn't do it.

Those numbers nearly match PMUA compensation amounts for a top-tier member after a 6h delay. I was involved in a 5h weather delay a few months ago as a local 1K pax and was offered similar compensation ($400/15k). However, given the circumstances, I agree that the offer is insufficient.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 4):
3. Rebookings. Why did they tell the pax that they had to wait? What about the other 9 hubs that they could have routed passenger through to get home. Seems like this PMCO staff just didn't care.

I suspect the passengers were told to wait because the agents were swamped, frustrated, unable to cope with the situation and were not adequately supported by their supervisors.

As for routing passengers elsewhere, it is a near-certainty that alternative flights were full or close to it. As I mentioned, in this era of 85%+ systemwide load factors, there's not a lot of slack built into the system to absorb these kind of events. Further, it is unlikely that the agents were willing to "think out of the box" to find solutions for their customers (OAL, route via other UAL hubs, JFK, etc.) due to their exasperation and, frankly, panicked state.


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3138 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 30104 times:

Interesting that another commenter on flyertalk said a similar procedure was used that same day in SFO:

Quote:
"There are going to be about 100 passengers who cannot be on this flight. If the BP scanner rejects your BP, you have to get out of the way and will not be on the flight."

This seems like it was a policy or procedure adopted by at least a couple of stations.

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 5):
Why do you feel that way?

Probably because it's helpful to know? Customers (like me) might like to anticipate potential problems and avoid them?  

-Rampart


User currently offlineBC77008 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 30042 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 9):
Probably because it's helpful to know? Customers (like me) might like to anticipate potential problems and avoid them?

Yeah, I can see that. But these problems seem to surface at all airlines in one form or another.



"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
User currently offlineSulley From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 526 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 29898 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 6):
I flew through ORD the other day trying to fly to ATW. The agents I came across were the crabbiest UA agents I have ever encountered. I was travelling on a simple ZED fare. Well here is what happened. In order to use a ZED fare to list on UA, you have to go online as the airport agents aren't allowed to list, and if you call UA, you will be charged for listing. Naturally of course, the flight was full. Now it gets interesting. They don't even roll over the standby lists anymore, and furthermore, although the agent did relist me for a later flight, she said in the future when I don't get on a standby flight, I have to relist just to catch the next one.

Standby lists do roll over.

Some PMUA agents apparently either do not know how to do it or don't want to do it.

The great majority of PMUA agents want to learn and serve the customer the best that they can with SHARES, but there is a vocal minority out there who refuse to learn the system and are blaming everything on the merger. This needs to be addressed. Now.



In thrust we trust!
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4278 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 29757 times:

Quoting Sulley (Reply 12):
Standby lists do roll over.

That's the way I thought it was always done. But apparently they don't roll over to the next day, which kind of makes sense, but doesn't at the same time.

Quoting Sulley (Reply 12):
The great majority of PMUA agents want to learn and serve the customer the best that they can with SHARES, but there is a vocal minority out there who refuse to learn the system and are blaming everything on the merger. This needs to be addressed. Now.

  

Back when UA was using Apollo, most agents worked with an overlay called FastAir, and I have heard of this being used on other reservations systems as well. You wonder if UA could have adopted FastAir to work with Shares. I remember during the US/HP merger, US set up QIK to work with Sabre prior to the cutover, which gave agents plenty of experince with the new interface. WIth Shares, US is using the QIK interface, which I actually find to be very user friendly as you don't have to remember a bunch of cryptic commands. UA seems to be using native shares though instead of a GUI interface which is common at a lot of airlines, and this seems to be contributing to the problem.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 29724 times:

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 5):
Why do you feel that way?

You think this situation is at all acceptable? I feel that not enough of UA merger intergation problems have been spelled out on this forum. It's been dead silent as of late.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 8):
I suspect the passengers were told to wait because the agents were swamped, frustrated, unable to cope with the situation and were not adequately supported by their supervisors.

I guess. I wonder, could passengers have been proactive and went to a service counter outside of gates 60-64 for rebookings?



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineSulley From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 526 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 29604 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 13):
That's the way I thought it was always done. But apparently they don't roll over to the next day, which kind of makes sense, but doesn't at the same time.

They do roll over to the next day - I know this first hand (CO peep here).

Sorry for the bad service you received as a passrider.

Quoting apodino (Reply 13):
Back when UA was using Apollo, most agents worked with an overlay called FastAir, and I have heard of this being used on other reservations systems as well. You wonder if UA could have adopted FastAir to work with Shares. I remember during the US/HP merger, US set up QIK to work with Sabre prior to the cutover, which gave agents plenty of experince with the new interface. WIth Shares, US is using the QIK interface, which I actually find to be very user friendly as you don't have to remember a bunch of cryptic commands. UA seems to be using native shares though instead of a GUI interface which is common at a lot of airlines, and this seems to be contributing to the problem.

They tried porting FastAir over to SHARES and wasted almost a year doing it. That's why the new GUI for SHARES is so delayed.



In thrust we trust!
User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 29335 times:

Don't know any specifics on this...do know that there are a long list of issues with the old CRS from CO being used as well as long phone waits.

User currently offlineshufflemoomin From Denmark, joined Jun 2010, 479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 29253 times:

Didn't anyone get video of this incident? It seems everything is captured on video these days. Video of which employees acted like this and documentary evidence that they did should be more than enough for them to lose their jobs over this. I'm sure there's plenty of people in this economy happy to take their jobs and do it properly.

User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21529 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 29212 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 14):
I guess. I wonder, could passengers have been proactive and went to a service counter outside of gates 60-64 for rebookings?

Depends on your ticket type, but surely this angry full fare F high elite pax could have done so. He could have tried to move to two of the other flights that would have left in the mean time, or on a connection through IAH.

But my guess is that his claim that they weren't told anything contributed to this.

As for this being a CO agent problem, well my experience at LAX is CO nor UA agents tell you squat about delays. Not sure why?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBC77008 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 29003 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 14):

You think this situation is at all acceptable? I feel that not enough of UA merger intergation problems have been spelled out on this forum. It's been dead silent as of late.

No need to get defensive. It was only a question. I guess the merger process is going smoother than you'd like to believe!



"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
User currently offlinehiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 28969 times:

Looks like may have been a pmco deal...753 to 752 both pmco metal. Believe UA is still split on who works which metal at most stations including LAX so may have been pmco gate personnel and mgt and no pmiua involvement. The pmco folks have been going thru a lot with the merger I've been told

Oh yeah...think it was saturday the 18th...seems to match with flight aware showing both the 17th and 19th ontime and not showing the 18th at all.....  scratchchin 

[Edited 2012-03-20 12:32:25]

User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 28941 times:

Quoting Sulley (Reply 12):
The great majority of PMUA agents want to learn and serve the customer the best that they can with SHARES, but there is a vocal minority out there who refuse to learn the system and are blaming everything on the merger.

Those people should be terminated, immediately. There's no room for this crap in today's economy. Many people would enjoy the opportunity to do their job, and would do a better one at it.

NS


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 28932 times:

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 19):

I wasn't getting defensive. I think we just don't hear about this kind of customer treatment on a regular basis on a.net. I mean fights between PMCO employees and customers? That's kind of crazy.

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 20):

Looks like may have been a pmco deal...753 to 752 both pmco metal. Believe UA is still split on who works which metal at most stations including LAX so may have been pmco gate personnel and mgt and no pmiua involvement. The pmco folks have been going thru a lot with the merger I've been told......

It was all PMCO.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 28868 times:

Quoting hiflyer (Reply 20):
The pmco folks have been going thru a lot with the merger I've been told......

Please provide some examples, I'd be interested. In general, all of their processes and procedures have been employed.

NS


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 28315 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 23):

Exactly. It's the PMUA employees that have to suck it up and new learn procedures.

Seems like PMCO employees are more ticket about the loss of their airline name -- which really doesn't make sense since they kept so much of CO at UA.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineSulley From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 526 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 28722 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 21):
Those people should be terminated, immediately. There's no room for this crap in today's economy. Many people would enjoy the opportunity to do their job, and would do a better one at it.

NS

Instead of learning the system (which I admit is temporarily challenging until the GUI comes online), they're trying to force the union to get FastAir back...  

It's not happening, no matter how much they kick and scream.

Sad days for all.



[Edited 2012-03-20 13:02:33]


In thrust we trust!
25 deltaflyertoo : Subbing a 757-200 for a 757-300 or any smaller for a larger plane is not unheard of. I feel your pain, it drives me crazy when these things happen (as
26 ikramerica : Which is so ridiculous. In any other profession, new systems come along, you learn them or quit/get fired. Not all changes are the for the best, eith
27 TOMMY767 : The problem with this incident is how these are not PMUA employees, they are PMCO employees. They already know SHARES but the gate agents threw a tem
28 style : Thanks TOMMY767, I think we get your point. Quite frankly I always take stories I read on FlyerTalk with a grain of salt considering how some only li
29 UALFAson : After 8 years of flying PMUA out of LAX, most of them as a Premier, I have to completely agree with you on this. The moment your flight gets tagged "
30 hiflyer : Sulley...you must be reading FB again...grin. Fastair was a screen scraping program for Apollo. Buhbye. AMR went to HP and signed a deal (Nov 2010) fo
31 mm320cap : In fairness, this is not other industries. When people travel, they are stressed out, and frequently behave quite badly. Add in issues like weather,
32 ikramerica : Excuses. I'm not saying it isn't hard or trouble free, I was responding to the vocal union minority that is trying to force away the change. And how
33 irelayer : Quoting TOMMY767 (Thread starter): Had this been EWR I'm pretty sure there would have been some black eyes involved. I don't understand? Are you imply
34 Post contains links andrew50 : There has been some tense situations at IAH over the past week also. United blamed it on heavy passenger traffic because of spring break, right! I too
35 gigneil : Why would there be merger related tense situations at IAH? They experienced few systems changes and their agents are well versed in using SHARES. NS
36 hiflyer : Hear that SHARES was a rocky system with sporadic fails prior to the cutover...the larger database that SHARES has to drive has stretched out all the
37 WA707atMSP : I flew UA MSP-DEN-BUR on March 3 (the morning after the transition), and was very glad my flights were only delayed about an hour. A UA agent at one o
38 ltbewr : One problem of airlines in recent years due to self check-in and other 'efficiency' moves to reduces labor costs has been the reduction of those on st
39 Post contains images ikramerica : When I travel I keep it even simpler: I don't expect miracles. I know sheeet happens. Just 1. communicate and 2. treat each customer like an individu
40 chopchop767 : Fortunately, my travels haven't taken me through LAX in quite some time. I've only connected there from the Far East on a handful of occasions. When w
41 joeljack : How is compensation determined? I was on a UAX DEN-OMA 6 hr delay because of first mechanical, then pilots, then flight attendants just a few weeks ag
42 Post contains images AA777 : Just another example - of many - across all the airlines, of how flying in the United States is truly a joke. I don't see any reason why people are fo
43 ikramerica : That's assuming he's telling the truth. But I agree, I've given up on status. Silver is meaningless, and I don't travel for work so getting to Gold i
44 Termbewr : {I think the only way to get what you want... is to charter a private jet.} I work in the private jet industry and can tell you first hand that if a
45 tpaewr : Not to excuse the meltdown, but for CO it is more than just the name lost. CO has always been non-union and most voted 'no' . But the greater numbers
46 chopchop767 : Great point! I have Premier Gold with UA and I believe reap more benefits from that status in Europe where Star Gold actually gets you lounge access
47 IADLHR : Exactly. Two months down the road puts it perilously close to Memorial Day weekend and the start of the peak travel season. Since the combined UA/CO
48 ULMFlyer : From the Flyertalk OP: I don't even know what to say if this is true. I guess whoever came up with this brilliant plan simply needs to go (and I find
49 usflyer msp : This is where I am at now. I am Silver now but I am not bothering attempting to renew it. It is liberating getting to try other carriers that often h
50 IADLHR : In recent weeks, this is hardly the first, second or third time, I have heard a story like this. I lost track after abut a dozen of these F stories.
51 upcfordcruiser : Easy to say those folks should be fired. Are they union? Even if they aren't, United is probably like every other major corporation where unemployment
52 IPFreely : Did United offer any explanation why no other airlines had hundreds of people standing in line for hours? Is United the exclusive airline for spring
53 gigneil : That is simply inaccurate. There were practically no workgroups at CO that were non-union. NS
54 SYfan100 : Several years ago I was flying out of MSP in the main terminal on a Delta flight. The gate next to me had a delayed flight to Chicago in which you cou
55 BCEaglesCO757 : Do you work at UA at all ? You always sound like you have your information first hand direct from the horses mouth. Or is aviation and this forum jus
56 BCEaglesCO757 : This statement is EXTREMELY inaccurate. Where do posters on here get their information from ? In at LEAST the last 10 years, the only work gruops tha
57 hiflyer : They went union with the CSA's from what I was told so all groups apparently covered now.
58 tpaewr : Before the mess with UA came ALL customer facing work groups were happy to be NON-union, save F/A. Not tkting, not gate, not res, not even the ramp (
59 tockeyhockey : i find it hard to believe that a million miler didn't think to go to the RCC or a customer service desk away from the gate and book himself on a diffe
60 T5towbar : You would think that when this merger was announced that they (the big cheeses upstairs) would come up with a easy to use and efficient reservation sy
61 bjorn14 : It's a New York thing. Fugetaboutit. Paulie might come after you.
62 TOMMY767 : Yes, they are. F-bombs would only be the start. Hobby/interest. I don't work for United, but sometimes I really think that I should. If someone got m
63 N1120A : I said this over there and I'll say it again. If a situation even remotely similar to this one EVER happens to me, United will lose all of my business
64 traindoc : The computer issues with the new UA are indeed terrible. My wife and I travelled from SAT-IAH-EWR-LIM on the 10th. Even though we made our reservation
65 IADLHR : Good for you. Maybe with some of the full fare Y and ,F that I know of, that are holding back UA travel and other 100K and even near million milers,
66 AS739BSI : UA needs to get its act together, if FFers and biz travelers are flocking elsewhere, the profits will shrink quickly not just from oil but bad service
67 N1120A : That is certainly untrue above the wing (unless you work for another airline). Even pre-3/3, they were cross-working check-in and boarding.
68 TWA902fly : Arrived at gate 62 last night (PMCO gate) at LAX on UAL277 from MCO. The PMCO crew didn't know how to get the jetway to A320 level, and we were on the
69 rampart : To be fair, this has happened to me on several airlines, including a few years ago on CO at their own EWR hub with an aircraft they were familiar wit
70 drerx7 : Well, that kind of issue is to be expected though. I'd throw that in the bin with teething problems. The other stuff talked about is deplorable.
71 CODC10 : At EWR, it's usually it's because the operator simply doesn't show up.
72 TOMMY767 : Gate issue are common. This sort of thing happened to me at LAX earlier in the year except we wait 20 minutes for a gate -- on PS. I don't think the
73 ULMFlyer : The FT OP posted a detailed update, where he answers most of your questions. He actually spent a fair amount of time talking to UA Club agents on sit
74 EA CO AS : It's not as absurd as you'd think; many Res agents eventually transfer to various ATOs and vice-versa. I can't speak for all carriers, but at mine Re
75 gigneil : My version was quite correct. Of the CO employee base, most groups were unionized. I would call the remaining CSR work group a minority in terms of n
76 RyanairGuru : Last week I spent over 3 hours on the phone to 1K1Call trying to sort out seat assignments. The wait was only about 2 minutes so that was impressive,
77 kfitz : Good to see the operational realities of the new UA finally be shown the light of day. The fact is every aspect of the transition was rushed - the bra
78 jamake1 : The biggest infection came from PM-CO...in the form of SHARES.
79 Post contains links kfitz : There's been a steady stream of ex-UA managers leaving the company since the merger closing, the most prominent being the CIO who resigned in protest
80 rwsea : This is what happens, unfortunately, when people are more focuses on a meger of egos ... err "equals"... then through sound business decisions. The di
81 IADLHR : In this day in age, in so many industries, there are mergers because everyone wants to be the largest in its particular line of business. However, no
82 TOMMY767 : If this keeps up into summer and ORD, EWR, DEN, and IAD get their fair share of usual summer severe thunderstorms and this customer service sentiment
83 tockeyhockey : wow, that is really bad. and i was never mistreated that way by the old UA. i had 1K status for a few years, and i was able to get them to pay for a
84 WA707atMSP : 51 years ago, United made the mistake of trying to integrate with Capital Airlines almost as soon as the merger was approved, instead of operating Cap
85 CODC10 : This is quite possible. I have been one of the lucky ones, as my post-PSS travel (5 flights sUA, 5 sCO, with 2 sUA coming up tomorrow) has been gener
86 TOMMY767 : Haven't had a problem with UA really ever. Last time I flew was JFK-LAX-IAD-LGA and was very satisfied. I'll be flying EWR-MIA-EWR next month. PMUA 7
87 style : Like others have pointed out, you are incorrect with that statement. Before the 'merger talk' and announcement most groups were not unionized. Like o
88 tymnbalewne : UA ORD staff listed me no probs when the ID90T.com site hadn't yet been updated to show UA as an eligible carrier. Actually, and I thought this was q
89 m11stephen : Even seasoned PMCO agents still struggle with SHARES. Supposedly it takes the average agent three times longer to do the same task with SHARES that i
90 Post contains links kfitz : Tom Stuker, UA's 10MM flyer, has stated the SHARES choice was based on $$ and $$ alone; it had nothing to do with giving employees the tools they need
91 Schweigend : O Kfitz of Berkley, even the esteemed Tom Stuker has no way of knowing how UA is doing or will do with SHARES. Certainly UA's choice saved them some
92 kfitz : First, it wasn't just "some" money; It was in the hundreds of millions/year. Second, SHARES has technical limitations which make it inferior to Apollo
93 Pellegrine : I don't know the details of this situation at all. But frankly, having worked in customer service as a teenager, I LOVE seeing CSRs totally tell off/c
94 EA CO AS : Hogwash. No carrier pays anything even remotely close to that amount for their system annually, let alone saves that amount via a different choice of
95 Post contains images Ctermua : If UA's agents must learn how to type code instead of using Windows pop-ups, that could in the end help them become the true helpers we all look for.
96 apodino : USAirways uses SHARES and uses a somewhat user friendly interface that has no cryptic commands at all and is much more user friendly. Couldn't UA use
97 flyhossd : Over and over again, in this discussion, I'm reminded of Gordon Bethune's statement: "You can make pizza so cheap, no one will eat it." Is the choice
98 m11stephen : One of the agents I worked with use to work at US and he claims that QIK, the GUI over SHARES at US, is complete trash. Anything has got to be better
99 lhr380 : Anyone have a picture of what shares looks like?
100 BCEaglesCO757 : Thank you stylee. I didn't really want to go back and forth. As I pointed out to him, I named the some specific groups that had a union at CO. Inform
101 m11stephen : It literally looks like Windows DOS with a black background and green text. It's not an "application" it is basically a program that allows you to ty
102 CODC10 : I don't think grahampros on FT is Tom Stuker... Anyway, it's a foregone conclusion that the decision to transition to SHARES was made because of cost
103 apodino : It isn't that hard when you know what all the control commands are. Control L gets you a list menu for example, control M gets you the main menu, con
104 m11stephen : I wonder why UA doesn't implement that in the short term... US already uses QIK with SHARES so it couldn't take that much effort for UA to implement
105 apodino : My thoughts exactly
106 EaglePower83 : This whole thing is horrendous. The fact that this system is causing remotely this much of an Ops backlash, means it is the WRONG choice for the compa
107 ikramerica : Devil's advocate. Year after year, CO was rated tops or among the top for business travel, which one assumes involves high value FFs. These high valu
108 LOWS : Melodramatic much? This was one incident out of thousands of daily flights. Once they get the merger kinks worked out, no doubt thing will be better.
109 Sulley : EaglePower83, the IAM will not bring FastAir back... you have no choice in learning it. Please do so for the rest of your co-workers.[Edited 2012-03-2
110 Post contains links industrybuff : I just posted my own PMUA drama in flyertalk via this link would really appreciate anyones feedback ! thanks http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...i-
111 LOWS : I think you mean Apollo/FastAir.
112 Post contains images Sulley : Yes... long day.
113 ikramerica : Pretty unique situation but hardly UA's fault. Nor is it a result of the merger. It's a result of a mistake by someone else and your failure to keep
114 Post contains links kfitz : Tom Stuker is ua1flyer: "Fact. It is all about the money.I know how much and it's alot. Enough to make customers frustrated right now,but shareholder
115 United1 : Your very correct in that not everything pmCO is the right thing for UA....just take boarding by rows for example. That didn't take long to switch ba
116 TOMMY767 : Very true. UA always went out of their way for their high yield customers. With CO, it was if you were elite you got some perks but that was it. At t
117 BOACCunard : I hear so much about "egalitarianism" and it seems to me that a lot of elites (at least upper-tier elites) feel that being treated well is of no use
118 kfitz : The egalitarian approach mean't CO didn't cater to their elites in the same vein UA did. US business travelers and corporate accounts make up a large
119 EaglePower83 : Perhaps my post was a tad dramatic, but with good reason. I've been an extremely proud UA flyer since 2005. No they weren't perfect, but whenever ther
120 ikramerica : This is obviously coming from someone blinded by PmUA love because as someone who had been a CO silver/gold for years, the UA system was not any bett
121 TOMMY767 : Here's difference between PMCO and PMUA customer service at LAX for instance: --2 friends of mine (different occasions) missed their planes from LAX-
122 CODC10 : Right, because everyone else flying to HAM/TXL/EDI/GLA/BFS/LIS/SNN/STR are using 777s and A330s. Further, the company wasn't willing to give up EWR-N
123 TOMMY767 : It should have been ALWAYS, not usually. Well perhaps CO shouldn't have flooded so many flights into EWR that whenever the wind blew the wrong way it
124 ikramerica : Was your friends CO missed flight also due to extremely long check-in lines? Or did he just miss his flight. What time of year was the miss? If every
125 CODC10 : In theory, sounds great. In practice, good luck. That goes for every carrier... they don't just hand out compensation like candy when things go wrong
126 ikramerica : The fog at SFO was obviously pmuas fault, too.
127 ikramerica : I was out of T6 rotunda in December on DL LAX-TPA but couldn't see much.
128 style : Amen to that. Nobody negates the fact that high yield (not all elites are high yield) passengers are the bread and butter but providing good service
129 BOACCunard : Yeah, see... This is the kind of attitude that is a big turn-off to me. The "unloyal, fickle cattle in the back," i.e. people like me, are paying cus
130 ikramerica : Thing is, if they took those 8 F pax from the 753 and put them into Y, they'd still be pissed, still demand the same compensation, still complain on
131 CODC10 : That's the answer I give when people ask me why the public perception is that CO was a better airline than UA, at least in the last few years. It may
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