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Hong Kong Approves Third Runway  
User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1722 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7465 times:

Good news for Hong Kong;

Hong Kong's Executive Council has approved "in principle" the construction of a third runway at its international airport.

The runway, which is expected to cost $17bn (£11bn), will be Hong Kong's most expensive project.

The airport is expected to operate at full capacity by 2020.

There have been fears of air traffic congestion, though the expansion plans have also faced opposition due to environmental concerns.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17443322


CZ 787 to AKL can't wait.
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecipango From Ireland, joined Jul 2009, 671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7450 times:

$17bn is a lot to spend on a third runway in my opinion. Lets just hope they can guarantee the economic return to pay it off!

User currently offlineredrooster3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 229 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7347 times:

Who will benefit to the third runway? From the picture, it looks to be a pretty lengthy runway. 15,000?+


The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
User currently offlineIndependence76 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 268 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7325 times:

Isn't 17bn nearly half of the actual airport's construction budget back in 1995?


"In general, pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes." - John Ruskin
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7859 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7306 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Thread starter):
The airport is expected to operate at full capacity by 2020.

It says "full capacity" but that doesn't really tell us an expected date of completion...when do you all think something like this will be finished?



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11690 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7272 times:

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 3):
Isn't 17bn nearly half of the actual airport's construction budget back in 1995?

If you look at the graphics, what they are creating is at least half the size of the current airport. It will include a lot of extra space for terminal and cargo development.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7222 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):

HKIA was entirely built from scratch within 7 years... The new runway? 4-5 years max.


User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 802 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7165 times:
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Wow! It looks from the photo like they'll almost be doubling the size of the airport. - Much more than just a 3rd runway!

User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 7118 times:

I was just at HKG and as massive as it is, there were a lot of gates in use in the morning peak. With all the mainlanders going to Hong Kong for their shopping, I think the increase will come from flights to/from China.

User currently offlinejsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2051 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7079 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6):
HKIA was entirely built from scratch within 7 years... The new runway? 4-5 years max.

Oh, for the days when infrastructure projects in the West worked that way. Nowadays, it would take a US city 4-5 years just to investigate the possibility of thinking about considering the feasibility of forming a committee to study options for a new runway somewhere. In the UK they would spend 4-5 years debating the color, length, width and thickness of the paper to be used for the New Runway Public Inquiry Report (and probably would cancel everything the week before it was released.) The Canadians would build a new runway, but would offset protests levying a 600% usage fee tax on passengers. About the only Western country that seems to build transport infrastructure in a hurry is Spain, and it turns out some of it was kind of questionable anyhow (Ciudad Real Airport, anyone?)

Hyperbole? Sure. I'm hugely oversimplifying the political, environmental, financial and geographic constraints faced by most Western markets. But Western "experts" spend all this time navel-gazing about how and why the Asian economies are catching up to and/or pulling ahead of them, and far-sighted infrastructure spending is certainly a piece of the answer.

In the meantime, congrats to HKG. The Pearl River Delta region is getting a lot more airport capacity in the next few years - CAN is building a third runway and SZX is practically tripling in size with a new runway and terminal complex.


User currently offlineaquablue From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6969 times:

The US has airports that have massive runway counts, including the new O'Hare project which will have 5 or 6 parallel runways (DFW, DEN, etc) !! I wouldn't be complaining. As for some of the cities that need new runways like NY, or SF, that is just extremely bad planning from decades ago and having no future vision to prevent such present constraints on development (i.e, poor locations for airports).

Asia builds airports that have room to expand and plan well for the future. They spend money to fix the problem so that in the future they won't be left stuck with a bigger one.

[Edited 2012-03-20 19:36:15]

[Edited 2012-03-20 19:37:14]

User currently offlineMarcoPoloWorld From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 649 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6969 times:

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 9):
Western "experts" spend all this time navel-gazing about how and why the Asian economies are catching up to and/or pulling ahead of them, and far-sighted infrastructure spending is certainly a piece of the answer.

In the meantime, congrats to HKG.

Well said.   


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 6920 times:

So.. this is more or less an expansion, and not so much just a third runway being added (like at SEA)?

Quoting MarcoPoloWorld (Reply 11):
Well said.   

Something to bring up in Econ. tomorrow!

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 7):
Wow! It looks from the photo like they'll almost be doubling the size of the airport. - Much more than just a 3rd runway!

I'm inclined to say almost tripled, even..



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13446 posts, RR: 100
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 6773 times:
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Congrats to Hong Kong. Now what is the cost of the proposed 4th runway?  

Seriously, what happened to when the US built infrastructure with 15 years of growth built in? Sigh...

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 5):
It will include a lot of extra space for terminal and cargo development.

   It won't just be airside capacity...

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 9):
Oh, for the days when infrastructure projects in the West worked that way.

sigh...

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 9):
The Pearl River Delta region is getting a lot more airport capacity in the next few years - CAN is building a third runway and SZX is practically tripling in size with a new runway and terminal complex.

Let's not forget 2 more runways for PVG and the new 8 runway Beijing airport! To think people ask 'where could you have airline growth?' Folks, for the next 15 years, expect half the growth to be in Asia.

I wish the US would expand. Move LAX's northernmost runway a few hundred feed north and build what was once called the West Terminal.    Build a new airport for SAN (or dramatically expand the current airport... unlikely, but I've seen proposals). At least DEN is building more ground transport (as is IAD). A 6th runway and more terminals at ATL, etc.

If you don't grow, you rot. Let's grow!

Note: We should include Europe. e.g., BER could have been a 3 runway 24/7 airport... FRA night ops? Naaa... who wants that growth. LHR?    Ok, Thames estuary airport?    2nd runway at STN, LGW (w/doubling of terminals and better ground transport), or LTN    and yes, the last would be very unlikely.

Instead we have growth in China, the mid-east, and a few other locations. Then on a.net they complain that the growth is happening where the infrastructure (and regulations) allow it... sigh...

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineStanleyJ From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 6679 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
It says "full capacity" but that doesn't really tell us an expected date of completion...when do you all think something like this will be finished?

It's all in the 2030 Master Plan *drumrolls*

http://www.hkairport2030.com/en/

The whole 3rd runway was just a minor formality... on the plus side, the hideous to use (by HKG-SIN-ICN standards) Terminal 2 for 2nd tier airlines will get reconfigured. Huzzah!


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2743 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6188 times:

So has the far-spaced third runway option been chosen? I remember having seen several layouts being discussed in a previous thread somewhere, some including 4th rwy options.

User currently offlineflythere From Hong Kong, joined May 2010, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 6068 times:

Quoting cipango (Reply 1):
$17bn is a lot to spend on a third runway in my opinion. Lets just hope they can guarantee the economic return to pay it off!

The expected economic benefit up to year 2050 is about $120bn AFAIR. 17bn isnt solely on the extra tarmac but also includes all the supporting facilities, new passenger terminal, underground train system, extra fire stations and so forth..

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 3):
Isn't 17bn nearly half of the actual airport's construction budget back in 1995?

Yea, (actually back then 1992) inflation and higher standards of infrastructure play important roles in the ever-high capital-needed project.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11690 posts, RR: 60
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6):
HKIA was entirely built from scratch within 7 years... The new runway? 4-5 years max.

I would say longer than that. The current airport site was built out of the sea by completely leveling two sizable islands and using the material to build up the land. This time there is no on site island, even if they were going to level another island they would have to ship the fill to HKG which adds time and difficulty.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinezeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9210 posts, RR: 76
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5941 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Thread starter):

The runway, which is expected to cost $17bn (£11bn), will be Hong Kong's most expensive project.

How much is that new rail line to the mainland cost ?



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineStanleyJ From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5570 times:

Quoting zeke (Reply 18):
How much is that new rail line to the mainland cost ?

HK$66.8 billion (US$8.6 billion). Of the 2009 variety... and should be a nice big white elephant.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5543 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 17):
I would say longer than that. The current airport site was built out of the sea by completely leveling two sizable islands and using the material to build up the land. This time there is no on site island, even if they were going to level another island they would have to ship the fill to HKG which adds time and difficulty.


Dan  

They've done way more in the original building of the airport. It included 2 bridges (and one of the longest suspension car/rail bridge in the world), an entire highway and rail system, plus an entire airport.

Filling the ocean for 1 runway is not all that work (the water isn't painfully deep like at KIX)


User currently offlinejet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 877 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5478 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
It says "full capacity" but that doesn't really tell us an expected date of completion...when do you all think something like this will be finished?


This press release at HKIA http://www.hongkongairport.com/eng/media/press-releases/pr_1060.html has a zip file attached, including an overall timeline. Which is 11 years. It's not quite clear where they are in the process, but I doubt they would open the 3rd runway much before the additional terminals are ready.


User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4930 times:

If only that said LHR instead of Hong Kong in the Title to the thread   

Looks like a massive project they are going way into the bay, kudos to HKG


User currently offlineB2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4807 times:

Quoting StanleyJ (Reply 19):
HK$66.8 billion (US$8.6 billion). Of the 2009 variety... and should be a nice big white elephant

Wasn't the high speed rail project shot down already? If HK were to pay for it, why? They could just hop on a light rail over to Shenzhen and they will be all set. If the mainland were to pay for it, again why? HSR extersion from Shenzhen to HongKong won't benefit the mainland much at all. They can't even go there freely. They could use the money to build better schools in the inland areas.

My question is who are paying for the project? HK SAR, the Mainland, or cost sharing between the two?


User currently offlineStanleyJ From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4668 times:

Quoting jet-lagged (Reply 21):
They've done way more in the original building of the airport. It included 2 bridges (and one of the longest suspension car/rail bridge in the world), an entire highway and rail system, plus an entire airport.

The Airport Core Programme was estimated to cost HK$200billion (US$25billion)... way back in the late 80's/early 90's. Even at the average rate of inflation of 5% (CPI) in Hong Kong. 1 dollar then is about 2.50 dollars now (the HKD:USD remained the same, so same which ever dollar we talk about). So that's HK$0.5trillion(!) or US$60billion of the 2010-ish variety. So an extra runway, new piers, APM extension, plus some Terminal 2 reconfiguration for about 1/3~1/4 the cost of building the original airport... about "right" really.


25 warren747sp : What we really need at EWR n certainly LHR!
26 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Designed and built concurrently at a pace unprecedented by anything before or after thanks to the handover deadline, but it still took 7 years to con
27 Boeing773ER : Oh wow, I just watched the video they have posted and they seemed like this runway needed to be built if Hong Kong wanted to be an economical powerho
28 Post contains images mogandoCI : Like you said, it could be concurrent. It's not 1 truck going back-n-forth trying to create 6 sq km by itself.
29 Post contains images super80 : HK government should have just kept Kai Tak open back then. lol It would have been a lot cheaper and i'm sure many would still enjoy flying into Kai T
30 kaitak : If only ! So true; Britain is falling behind because its government has been in ostrich mode for the past two years; there are signs that it is recog
31 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Of course there is going to be more than one machine involved, they are moving 90 million cubic meters of sediment out and 75 million cubic meters of
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