redrooster3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 217 posts, RR: 2 Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6583 times:
Who will benefit to the third runway? From the picture, it looks to be a pretty lengthy runway. 15,000?+
The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
Independence76 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 165 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6561 times:
Isn't 17bn nearly half of the actual airport's construction budget back in 1995?
"In general, pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes." - John Ruskin
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11143 posts, RR: 63 Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 6508 times:
Quoting Independence76 (Reply 3): Isn't 17bn nearly half of the actual airport's construction budget back in 1995?
If you look at the graphics, what they are creating is at least half the size of the current airport. It will include a lot of extra space for terminal and cargo development.
QFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 130 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6354 times:
I was just at HKG and as massive as it is, there were a lot of gates in use in the morning peak. With all the mainlanders going to Hong Kong for their shopping, I think the increase will come from flights to/from China.
jsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1859 posts, RR: 17 Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6315 times:
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6): HKIA was entirely built from scratch within 7 years... The new runway? 4-5 years max.
Oh, for the days when infrastructure projects in the West worked that way. Nowadays, it would take a US city 4-5 years just to investigate the possibility of thinking about considering the feasibility of forming a committee to study options for a new runway somewhere. In the UK they would spend 4-5 years debating the color, length, width and thickness of the paper to be used for the New Runway Public Inquiry Report (and probably would cancel everything the week before it was released.) The Canadians would build a new runway, but would offset protests levying a 600% usage fee tax on passengers. About the only Western country that seems to build transport infrastructure in a hurry is Spain, and it turns out some of it was kind of questionable anyhow (Ciudad Real Airport, anyone?)
Hyperbole? Sure. I'm hugely oversimplifying the political, environmental, financial and geographic constraints faced by most Western markets. But Western "experts" spend all this time navel-gazing about how and why the Asian economies are catching up to and/or pulling ahead of them, and far-sighted infrastructure spending is certainly a piece of the answer.
In the meantime, congrats to HKG. The Pearl River Delta region is getting a lot more airport capacity in the next few years - CAN is building a third runway and SZX is practically tripling in size with a new runway and terminal complex.
aquablue From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 94 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6205 times:
The US has airports that have massive runway counts, including the new O'Hare project which will have 5 or 6 parallel runways (DFW, DEN, etc) !! I wouldn't be complaining. As for some of the cities that need new runways like NY, or SF, that is just extremely bad planning from decades ago and having no future vision to prevent such present constraints on development (i.e, poor locations for airports).
Asia builds airports that have room to expand and plan well for the future. They spend money to fix the problem so that in the future they won't be left stuck with a bigger one.
MarcoPoloWorld From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 600 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 6205 times:
Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 9): Western "experts" spend all this time navel-gazing about how and why the Asian economies are catching up to and/or pulling ahead of them, and far-sighted infrastructure spending is certainly a piece of the answer.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10696 posts, RR: 100 Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6009 times:
Congrats to Hong Kong. Now what is the cost of the proposed 4th runway?
Seriously, what happened to when the US built infrastructure with 15 years of growth built in? Sigh...
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 5): It will include a lot of extra space for terminal and cargo development.
It won't just be airside capacity...
Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 9): Oh, for the days when infrastructure projects in the West worked that way.
sigh...
Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 9): The Pearl River Delta region is getting a lot more airport capacity in the next few years - CAN is building a third runway and SZX is practically tripling in size with a new runway and terminal complex.
Let's not forget 2 more runways for PVG and the new 8 runway Beijing airport! To think people ask 'where could you have airline growth?' Folks, for the next 15 years, expect half the growth to be in Asia.
I wish the US would expand. Move LAX's northernmost runway a few hundred feed north and build what was once called the West Terminal. Build a new airport for SAN (or dramatically expand the current airport... unlikely, but I've seen proposals). At least DEN is building more ground transport (as is IAD). A 6th runway and more terminals at ATL, etc.
If you don't grow, you rot. Let's grow!
Note: We should include Europe. e.g., BER could have been a 3 runway 24/7 airport... FRA night ops? Naaa... who wants that growth. LHR? Ok, Thames estuary airport? 2nd runway at STN, LGW (w/doubling of terminals and better ground transport), or LTN and yes, the last would be very unlikely.
Instead we have growth in China, the mid-east, and a few other locations. Then on a.net they complain that the growth is happening where the infrastructure (and regulations) allow it... sigh...
StanleyJ From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5915 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4): It says "full capacity" but that doesn't really tell us an expected date of completion...when do you all think something like this will be finished?
The whole 3rd runway was just a minor formality... on the plus side, the hideous to use (by HKG-SIN-ICN standards) Terminal 2 for 2nd tier airlines will get reconfigured. Huzzah!
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2252 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5424 times:
So has the far-spaced third runway option been chosen? I remember having seen several layouts being discussed in a previous thread somewhere, some including 4th rwy options.
flythere From Hong Kong, joined May 2010, 384 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5304 times:
Quoting cipango (Reply 1): $17bn is a lot to spend on a third runway in my opinion. Lets just hope they can guarantee the economic return to pay it off!
The expected economic benefit up to year 2050 is about $120bn AFAIR. 17bn isnt solely on the extra tarmac but also includes all the supporting facilities, new passenger terminal, underground train system, extra fire stations and so forth..
Quoting Independence76 (Reply 3): Isn't 17bn nearly half of the actual airport's construction budget back in 1995?
Yea, (actually back then 1992) inflation and higher standards of infrastructure play important roles in the ever-high capital-needed project.
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11143 posts, RR: 63 Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5177 times:
Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 6): HKIA was entirely built from scratch within 7 years... The new runway? 4-5 years max.
I would say longer than that. The current airport site was built out of the sea by completely leveling two sizable islands and using the material to build up the land. This time there is no on site island, even if they were going to level another island they would have to ship the fill to HKG which adds time and difficulty.
mogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4779 times:
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 17): I would say longer than that. The current airport site was built out of the sea by completely leveling two sizable islands and using the material to build up the land. This time there is no on site island, even if they were going to level another island they would have to ship the fill to HKG which adds time and difficulty.
Dan
They've done way more in the original building of the airport. It included 2 bridges (and one of the longest suspension car/rail bridge in the world), an entire highway and rail system, plus an entire airport.
Filling the ocean for 1 runway is not all that work (the water isn't painfully deep like at KIX)
jet-lagged From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 850 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4714 times:
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4): It says "full capacity" but that doesn't really tell us an expected date of completion...when do you all think something like this will be finished?
This press release at HKIA http://www.hongkongairport.com/eng/media/press-releases/pr_1060.html has a zip file attached, including an overall timeline. Which is 11 years. It's not quite clear where they are in the process, but I doubt they would open the 3rd runway much before the additional terminals are ready.
B2443 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 681 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4043 times:
Quoting StanleyJ (Reply 19): HK$66.8 billion (US$8.6 billion). Of the 2009 variety... and should be a nice big white elephant
Wasn't the high speed rail project shot down already? If HK were to pay for it, why? They could just hop on a light rail over to Shenzhen and they will be all set. If the mainland were to pay for it, again why? HSR extersion from Shenzhen to HongKong won't benefit the mainland much at all. They can't even go there freely. They could use the money to build better schools in the inland areas.
My question is who are paying for the project? HK SAR, the Mainland, or cost sharing between the two?
StanleyJ From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2010, 29 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3904 times:
Quoting jet-lagged (Reply 21): They've done way more in the original building of the airport. It included 2 bridges (and one of the longest suspension car/rail bridge in the world), an entire highway and rail system, plus an entire airport.
The Airport Core Programme was estimated to cost HK$200billion (US$25billion)... way back in the late 80's/early 90's. Even at the average rate of inflation of 5% (CPI) in Hong Kong. 1 dollar then is about 2.50 dollars now (the HKD:USD remained the same, so same which ever dollar we talk about). So that's HK$0.5trillion(!) or US$60billion of the 2010-ish variety. So an extra runway, new piers, APM extension, plus some Terminal 2 reconfiguration for about 1/3~1/4 the cost of building the original airport... about "right" really.
25 warren747sp: What we really need at EWR n certainly LHR!
26 PlymSpotter: Designed and built concurrently at a pace unprecedented by anything before or after thanks to the handover deadline, but it still took 7 years to con
27 Boeing773ER: Oh wow, I just watched the video they have posted and they seemed like this runway needed to be built if Hong Kong wanted to be an economical powerho
28 mogandoCI: Like you said, it could be concurrent. It's not 1 truck going back-n-forth trying to create 6 sq km by itself.
29 super80: HK government should have just kept Kai Tak open back then. lol It would have been a lot cheaper and i'm sure many would still enjoy flying into Kai T
30 kaitak: If only ! So true; Britain is falling behind because its government has been in ostrich mode for the past two years; there are signs that it is recog
31 PlymSpotter: Of course there is going to be more than one machine involved, they are moving 90 million cubic meters of sediment out and 75 million cubic meters of
Sponsor Message: 
From China, joined Sep 2004, 1501 posts, 
From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2009, 293 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 217 posts, 
From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 4985 posts, 
From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11143 posts, 
From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 130 posts, 
Build a new airport for SAN (or dramatically expand the current airport... unlikely, but I've seen proposals). At least DEN is building more ground transport (as is IAD). A 6th runway and more terminals at ATL, etc. 
Ok, Thames estuary airport? 
2nd runway at STN, LGW (w/doubling of terminals and better ground transport), or LTN 
From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2252 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3355 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
