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Is It Dangerous Building Boeings In Everett?  
User currently offlineB737900 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 179 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13822 times:
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Haven't seen this posted. If so please delete or move. Watching Seattle news this evening it is reported that last night (Monday) at Boeing Field in Everett an employee was caught between the flaps and spoilers of a 747. He sustained injuries. Not much details yet.
And last month, also in Everett, an employee was run over while working on an Air Bridge Cargo 787. KING 5 news talked with the 787 injured employee who is recovering with leg wounds. Boeing has been hiring lately and it was speculated (by KING news) that lack of training might have been the cause of these accidents.
Of course the union, the lawyers and Boeing are all wanting to get in front of the cameras to give their side. Watching this report made me realize that building airplanes could be a dangerous profession and hazardous to ones health.
How could this happen: being caught between flaps and spoilers on a 747 and being run over by a 787?


Sounds like a Beaver on floats..........we're saved!!
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31003 posts, RR: 86
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13785 times:
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Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
How could this happen: being caught between flaps and spoilers on a 747 and being run over by a 787?

It's called the Law of Averages.

Accidents happen every day at airports around the world. Folks just need to be more vigilant and aware of what's going on around them.


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3031 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13768 times:

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
Watching this report made me realize that building airplanes could be a dangerous profession and hazardous to ones health.

Between the thread title, and this statement, I wonder if you're trying to be overly dramatic...

Everything in life, including manufacturing, has some level of inherent risk. Is it dangerous building airplanes in the city of Everett, Washington? No. Has Boeing had some accidents lately? Yes. Boeing has been in Everett since 1967, so a 45 year track record pretty much speaks for itself.

Good try though.  


User currently offlinedfwrevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13713 times:

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
How could this happen: being caught between flaps and spoilers on a 747 and being run over by a 787?

Heavy manufacturing is hazardous work. In general, all manufacturing industries are far safer than they were even ten years ago, but still not completely incident free. Any time you're on a shop floor, you have to keep your head on a swivel.

[Edited 2012-03-20 18:07:54]

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19727 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13712 times:

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
And last month, also in Everett, an employee was run over while working on an Air Bridge Cargo 787. KING 5 news talked with the 787 injured employee who is recovering with leg wounds.

As far as I am aware, no cargo variant of the 787 is on offer.


User currently offlineB737900 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13600 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
As far as I am aware, no cargo variant of the 787 is on offer.

You are correct. I checked on-line and it apperars to be a JAL Dreamliner with a UNICEF logo. This was Feb. 3 and he was taken to the hospital in serious condition.

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):
Good try though

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I absolutely know that it is dangerous out there. I was a logger in Alaska for a short time. My reason for posting this was to perhaps find out how specifically something like this could happen. Regards



Sounds like a Beaver on floats..........we're saved!!
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5467 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13586 times:

Saw the thread title and assumed this was a thread about earthquakes (to which the Seattle area is quite susceptible, although PAE is much better positioned than BFI or RNT).

User currently offlinegweilo88 From Hong Kong, joined May 2009, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13504 times:

I own a chain of shops selling handbags and shoes. We had 2 on the job injuries last year requiring trips to an emergency room. It's not like we are building machines bigger than my home there.
Considering the operation they have in Everett it doesn't sound too bad to me.


User currently offlineamccann From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13484 times:

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 3):
Any time you're on a shop floor, you have to keep your head on a swivel.

As well as wear your personal protective equipment...

Earplugs when necessary. However I personally recommend wearing earplugs at all times.
Eyewear at ALL times, no if's and's or but's.
Shoes at ALL times.



What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinerogercamel From Singapore, joined Feb 2012, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12921 times:

Working in a large manufacturing plant is not dissimilar from a construction site. Both are inherrently risky as you are dealing with incomplete structures/machines that are designed to be safe primarily when completed.

Given that these injuries have been reported in the news it would suggest that they are not common (if they were common, they wouldn't be news). I find it hard to believe that a company the size of Boeing, based in the USA, building planes - where safety in the air is paramount, would not extend the same to their factory employees on the ground.


User currently offlineDaysleeper From UK - England, joined Dec 2009, 841 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 12737 times:

Everett is the combination of two potentially dangerous environments, it’s both a manufacturing area for very large, very heavy pieces of equipment and an airport. My experience of American companies is that they are incredibly pedantic when it comes to safety, I’d imagine that Boeing take every conceivable measure to ensure worker safety, but for the reasons I mentioned above there is always going to be an element of risk.

User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3591 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12598 times:

Building Boeings, or indeed anything will always have an element of danger involved, large structures, multiple personnel, moving machinery all contribute. Any company the size of Boeing will have procedures in place to minimise this risk, geberally they work. However you still have the human factor involved.
Its ill advised to speculate how someone can be trapped between the flaps and spoilers on a 747 when you aren't in full possesion of the facts, I think we can assume however that the worker didn't just walk past and fall in the gap, bearing in mind that they would need to be 15 feet off the ground in the 1st place.

There are many instances where people get injured through sheer stupidity, I recently saw a you tube clip of a large steel structure being lowered into a trailer with two men standing underneath in order to guide it into position, the trailer had solid sides and was 45 feet long, if a lifting strop slipped or snapped they stood no chance at all of getting out of the way. They must have thought their hard hats would protect them !!
I'm sure there would have been procedures in place on behalf of the site owners, the contractors, and the crane owners, yet it was still happening.
One of the 1st lessons I was taught on a local farm at the age of 13 was "never walk under a suspended load"

Companys such as Boeing will keep a constant eye on things to try and stop these sort of things happening, but with a workforce in tens of thousands it will always be difficult


User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 771 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12445 times:
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I was expecting something with earthquakes......

Although I doubt that Boeing will move, this could be a reason for Boeing to leave Everett for another city.


User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2660 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12353 times:

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
And last month, also in Everett, an employee was run over while working on an Air Bridge Cargo 787. KING 5 news talked with the 787 injured employee who is recovering with leg wounds

That is an incident I still cannot fathom. The taxi speeds are so dang slow, did this guy simply lie there and watch the plane slowly creep toward him?

Anyone remember the scene when Ken runs Otto over with a steam roller in? That comes to mind with the above incident!

Bonus point goes to the first person to name the film reference!



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineAirbusA370 From Germany, joined Dec 2008, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12246 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 13):
Bonus point goes to the first person to name the film reference!

A Fish Called Wanda  


User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11983 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 13):
when Ken runs Otto over with a steam roller

That's K-k-k-k-k-ken. Great movie. I love that scene.

Manufacturing airplanes and working around an airport can be dangerous. Who knew? I grew up working in an electro plating plant as a minor. One learns to be careful very quickly. Swinging a hammer is dangerous for some people too. What should be done?

I am with the others who thought this was about earthquakes.


User currently offlineB737900 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11933 times:
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Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 15):
I am with the others who thought this was about earthquakes.


When I posted this thread yesterday (Tuesday) earthquakes we the farthest thing from my mind. Although we have had some minor tremors here in the Pacific Northwest, nothing serious has shaken us recently.
My real reason was to ask how could someone get caught between the flaps and spoilers of a 747? I assume the flaps and spoilers were being "worked out" Perhaps somebody that works up there on the wing can shed some light. Regards to all.



Sounds like a Beaver on floats..........we're saved!!
User currently offline9MMPQ From Netherlands, joined Nov 2011, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11799 times:

Quoting B737900 (Reply 16):
My real reason was to ask how could someone get caught

Perhaps he was caught in a place he shouldn't have been in as they were doing test ? Or poor coordination during a test or a slip & fall. Until we hear more details, take your pick. But honestly work place accidents can happen everywhere. Sometimes because of the simplest or smallest mistakes, even if their not your own.

Can i say i was expecting kind of a thread ready to bash Boeing in Everett about something ? Reading all this I know you're only interested in the how & why though !



I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 771 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11667 times:
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Quoting B737900 (Reply 16):
When I posted this thread yesterday (Tuesday) earthquakes we the farthest thing from my mind. Although we have had some minor tremors here in the Pacific Northwest, nothing serious has shaken us recently.
My real reason was to ask how could someone get caught between the flaps and spoilers of a 747? I assume the flaps and spoilers were being "worked out" Perhaps somebody that works up there on the wing can shed some light. Regards to all.

Sorry, I disagree, the title of this thread suggest that there is something to do with the location where Boeing planes are made. The same would have applied to a title such as "Is it dangerous to build Airbus aircraft in Toulouse?"

Maybe it should be changed into "Is it dangerous to build an airplane?" That seems to be more logical to me.

I agree with you though how someone can be caught between the flaps and the spoilers......


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3024 posts, RR: 36
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11564 times:
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Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 18):
Maybe it should be changed into "Is it dangerous to build an airplane?" That seems to be more logical to me.

As my "safety training for the workplace" job guide says on the 1st page:
"Anytime a human must interact with something that can hurt them, accidents can happen. Most accidents can be avoided, but not all."



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineheathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11424 times:

I think the real question here is if AF is safe after all their accidents.....   

I would say their plant is no more safe than it always ways, and isn't any less safe than say Airbus or Bombardier. They may have had a couple incidents in the recent past, but it doesn't make them unsafe!


User currently offlineaogdesk From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 935 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10273 times:

B737900, when I used to work on 727's, there were a couple of jobs that required that flaps be lowered to allow access to the rear wing spar area. One of those jobs was removing and replacing spoiler actuators which were often found leaking. It wasn't an easy job, and while I don't recall the specific steps, it made the job much easier to raise or lower the actuator using hydraulic power (3000PSI pressure). I recall being in between the flap and spoiler and my coworker controlling the actuator by the mechanism on the inboard side of the unit. His hand was slippery with Skydrol and came off the actuator, which caused it to drop immediately. Fortunately I saw it coming and ducked *quickly*. It would definitely have caused some damage.

Yes, things happen due to improper procedures, when jobs are particularly difficult, complacency, miscommunication, and a host of other causes. Simply dismissing them and claiming that its a numbers game is irresponsible. While I don't know the circumstances of the B787 event, I have most definitely seen the risk of severe incidents rise over the last few years as the experience levels of employees have dropped.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15745 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10074 times:

Quoting B737900 (Thread starter):
Is It Dangerous Building Boeings In Everett?

Airports and factories are inherently dangerous places to work. Everyone has to always keep their head on a swivel, but sometimes these things do happen.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3139 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10074 times:

Quoting PlaneAdmirer (Reply 15):
I am with the others who thought this was about earthquakes.

Same here. Or volcano. I was recalling the recent thread on renovating the terminals at SLC, one goal being to reach current codes for earthquakes.

-Rampart


User currently offlinethreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2138 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9783 times:

Quoting garpd (Reply 13):
Anyone remember the scene when Ken runs Otto over with a steam roller in? That comes to mind with the above incident!

Well that's just plain silly: towing a brand new airplane over wet cement in Everett. Of course something/someone's going to get stuck!
Remember: the scene in the movie was airside and beside a couple of Boeing aircraft, this would be a great case of life imitating art.

[Edited 2012-03-21 11:15:13]


The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
25 KC135TopBoom : Almost any workplace is dangerous to some degree. I remember the day, like it was yesterday, I had to give CPR and emergency first aid to my secretary
26 SEA : I just pulled a muscle behind my knee on my job yesterday, does that mean my workplace is dangerous? No. Accidents happen.
27 gothamspotter : This week's incident was an Air Bridge 747. The run-over incident was a JAL 787. That victim's legs had to be amputated.
28 tribird1011 : Close, but it was Etihad, not Qatar...
29 B737900 : You are right about that; I made the correction in a later post. Hadn't heard about the amputation. Tragic indeed! Regards
30 BoeingGuy : Yes, everyone. Unfortunately the 787 guy was apparently texting (and he wasn't in the factory). This is kind of a really silly over-dramatic thread (
31 jetblueguy22 : I'm sorry but I consider a tragedy someone being killed by a hangar collapse or getting caught in a machine. Texting while standing next to a taxiing
32 BoeingGuy : Yes, it's stupidity and poor judgment but still a tragedy. I've done dumb things too and fortunately lived (and didn't hurt anyone else) and kept all
33 B737900 : Well jetblueguy22 how about you telling that to the unfortunate fellow who lost his legs. So, as long as nobody is killed then it is not a tragedy. I
34 AngMoh : Most of these type of accidents happen when people fail to comply to safety rules. In my company, the attitude of "sometimes these thing do happen" g
35 kanban : Safety at Boeing is a major concern and there is a great deal of time spent in Safety classes and inspections. Every shop has safety monitors who rea
36 bikerthai : In this case, this chap probably got some sort of a warning and will be placed in a different job when he gets back to work. The lost leg will limit
37 ajhYXE : "Tragedy" is a subjective word. It may mean something different to everyone. I don't believe anyone was called stupid in this thread. Rather, the act
38 BoeingGuy : The OP is apparently aware of the recent two injuries occurring on the Boeing Flight Line and in the factory a few days ago and wants to know if this
39 Post contains images jetblueguy22 : Oh lord . I'm not saying you have to get killed for it to be a tragedy. Did I say that guy is stupid? No. I said what he did was stupid. So why don't
40 dfwrevolution : IMO, I think it is very good that we talk openly about safety. Workplace statistics show a positive correlation between the amount of time companies
41 kanban : OK, don't blame anyone else.. I said that in spite of all the safety programs we still caught people being stupid... probably should have said they we
42 gigneil : Yet we lead the world in workplace safety. Its actually a major part of the reason we can't compete with the third world for labor. I prefer being al
43 rogercamel : And so it should. I spent a year repairing a suspension bridge, working around live traffic, at heights of 80m, and with just a suspension cable to w
44 StressedOut : I used to walk through the Everett factory often because it is such an awesome place for a walk. Having worked around the ag industry and the oilfield
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