Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why No 757s In Asia/Pacific?  
User currently offlineEGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 85 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8190 times:

A quick search of the photo database shows that there really are very few 757s operating in Australia? As the topic suggests, I was just wondering why?

Looking at the length of the routes (SYD/MEL - PER for example) they seem to be about right for the 757 so I'm assuming it's something to do with load factors?

Or maybe the 757 never really 'took off' in Australia..  

Any ideas?

[Edited 2012-03-22 12:52:18]

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8141 times:

The 757 was never a big seller in the Asia/Pacific region. For Australia I would say it was too big at the time. For the rest of Asia it was too small since most markets were (and some still are) highly-regulated when the 757 went into service. With frequency restrictions in many markets, carriers preferred to use larger widebodies.

User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8525 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8140 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Too small for SYD-MEL and too big for most other routes at the time would be my guess. The 757 was never really that popular in markets outside of the USA/Europe. In the whole of Asia/Australia/Africa/Latin America it sold in relatively small numbers to relatively few airlines.


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineEGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8077 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
The 757 was never really that popular in markets outside of the USA/Europe. In the whole of Asia/Australia/Africa/Latin America it sold in relatively small numbers to relatively few airlines.Moderation in all things ... including moderation  

Yeah they were my thoughts, too. I suppose now it would fit in but it's obviously a little too late.

I suppose despite the distances being pretty similar, the US has far more cities to link whereas Australia didn't/doesn't?


User currently offlinerogercamel From Singapore, joined Feb 2012, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7639 times:

In Asia timing is also a reason - the 757 ended production in 2004, which is (I understand) before much of the recent expansion really took off.

Also - from my experience the routes around Asia are either very heavy (e.g SQ runs 8x 777 to/from CGK - a flight of 105 minutes and 7 wide body flights to and from HKG and both routes fill up quick) or can be served by smaller alternatives once or twice a day.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19275 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7594 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 2):

Too small for SYD-MEL and too big for most other routes at the time would be my guess. The 757 was never really that popular in markets outside of the USA/Europe. In the whole of Asia/Australia/Africa/Latin America it sold in relatively small numbers to relatively few airlines.

The other thing is range needs.

The longest domestic nonstop in mainland Australia (something like PER-BNE/SYD) is a significant amount shorter (~20%) than the longest domestic nonstop in the continental US. So even before the 757, the 727 was capable of such routes.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5601 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7575 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
The longest domestic nonstop in mainland Australia (something like PER-BNE/SYD) is a significant amount shorter (~20%) than the longest domestic nonstop in the continental US. So even before the 757, the 727 was capable of such routes.

That's true. The B721 was a bit dogey westbound on SYD-PER, but the B722 was fine. The B721s often operated via ADL, but just as much for traffic reasons, in those days, as range issues.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinePacNWJet From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 955 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7516 times:

Well, the 757 is not entirely non-existent among Asia/Pacific carriers:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © S. H. Yang
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Zengqingyi


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Zhangliming
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Xu Zheng


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Air Sheep
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © chiral


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jerome Zbinden
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bastian Ding



User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7456 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Any images of the Delta 757s that appear to still be operating intra-Asian routes?


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24643 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7353 times:

Quoting Coronado (Reply 8):
Any images of the Delta 757s that appear to still be operating intra-Asian routes?

Fairly recent photos of 4 of those aircraft.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ilkka Portti - flyFinland
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kinmei


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tokyo Spotter
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © J.Suzuki



User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7112 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7192 times:

I think more than any other reason, the 757 never took off out here because a) the 762 was more useful in terms of range for isolated Oceania - having the range to navigate both the regional stuff and longer routes AKL-HNL/PER/SIN/NGO/DPS etc etc.

The other contributing reason may have been that the smaller islands depend on airfreight for lots of their produce etc, so a bulkloaded 757 wastes more time loading and carries less (and non-containerised)cargo than a 767. This was a contributing factor for NZ gaining intl A320s over 737s as well


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7157 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Thanks Viscount724
I notice that N549US has the winglets installed. Any of the other PMNW 757 in the images you posted undergoing or about to undergo this modification? Is this modification of value to these Asian stage length runs? I always thought this was more of a transatlantic sort of thing. J



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2946 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7119 times:

It was just the wrong plane for the market, like you say... I daresay that earlier deregulation in this region may have meant that LCC's would have been in the market earlier -- these are the carriers buying this category of planes today...

This size bracket is rapidly gaining popularity -- look at how many A321's and 789's that many Asian carriers are now operating. JQ in Australia has a number of A321's, which move around the network depending on demand.

Quoting EGSUcrew (Thread starter):
Looking at the length of the routes (SYD/MEL - PER for example) they seem to be about right for the 757 so I'm assuming it's something to do with load factors?

4 of QF's 6-7 daily flights from SYD-PER are operated by 300 seat A330's (and a 400 seat 747, though this flight will revert to A330's soon), and the other 2-3 are operated by 250 seat 767's (and 737's over the weekends) -- the 757 would really be too small for these routes.

MEL/BNE-PER is a similar situation, though there are far more 767's than A330's. There's also a big migration to widebodies only on these flights (though in reality they're only 4-5 hours long), with QF making a big deal of more widebodies and VA bringing A332's in for these routes...

I think a small fleet of A321/B739ER aircraft could serve QF very well though...


User currently offlinetayser From Australia, joined Mar 2008, 1124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7065 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 12):
MEL/BNE-PER is a similar situation, though there are far more 767's than A330's

it's 50/50 763/332 split with widebodies on MEL-PER-MEL for QF

8 daily flights (next Monday):

2 x 738
3x 332
3x 763

VA are 5x daily 737s, up to 2 (i think?) will switch to 330s - fairly decent capacity increase

[Edited 2012-03-22 21:09:33]

User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9460 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7029 times:

Early on airlines chose the 767 or 757. There weren't that many airlines that operated both. Air New Zealand, Qantas and Ansett Australia all chose the 767, which was logical for many of their routes. The additional range of the 767 proved useful as the airplane could operate the routes to Pacific and Asia unlike the 757.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinemdavies06 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2009, 380 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7021 times:

Asia Pac carriers in the 80s and 90s were either very big (JL, NH) carriers or hub carriers (GA,CX,MH,SQ etc) with little competitions in their home markets. Under this scenarios many routes tend to be operated by widebody jets as they were able to operate less frequencies than was needed by the competition landscape.

Another reason was that a lot of carriers were using the long haul jets to operate regional routes. This is because most of the main long haul markets (namely US and European routes) takes a little over a day to complete a rotation, and the departure banks were (and still are) very concentrated to one part of the day. For example, nearly all of the European flights to Europe from SE Asia were midnight departure and arrival back to base in the morning one day later. This created a need to find routes to use these metals regionally which can be turned around in a few hours. This is not a problem for European carriers as the jet usage is more spreadout globally but for Asia pac carriers this has always been a problem.


There weren't a lot of long thin routes which covers the 5-10 hours flight range of market which the 757 do well in. Most of the routes of that range tend to be covered by widebody jets. Most of these markets in this range were trunk routes (NRT-HNL, SIN-MEL as an example). There wasn't a major market (such as US West to East coast traffic, TATL) for Asiapac which existed with a lot of volume and a lot of city pairs to connect.

The only market which would have served well with the 757s were China where the size of the market were not particularly big and there were a lot of primary and secondary routes needing jets the size of 757. As noted above CZ and CA had 757. They are being replaced by 737, 320 and 330 now. Although there were also secondary routes in Japan, JL (and JAS) already had the DC10, A300 and MD11, whilst NH had the 767. Other carriers (CI, SQ, TG) had the A300 or A310.

After the 1980s, most carriers opted for 330 and 772 or a step down to 737NG/320.

[Edited 2012-03-22 21:35:20]

User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3115 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6965 times:

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 15):
Other carriers (CI, SQ, TG) had the A300 or A310.

SQ did operate the 757; looked great in their livery.



FLYi
User currently offlineaquariusHKG From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2010, 94 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6821 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 16):
Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 15):
Other carriers (CI, SQ, TG) had the A300 or A310.

SQ did operate the 757; looked great in their livery.

Actually SQ dumped their 757 in favor of the A310, that might give some insight

From what I read SQ claim that the A310 can load/unload faster being twin isle


User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 671 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6753 times:

Air Niugini currently operates a 757-200 (TF-FIC) on its Port Moresby - Brisbane flights on Fridays.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Nacho Rguez. Bea



Tasman Cargo Airlines operates 5x weekly 757-200F (in DHL colour scheme) services across the Tasman from Auckland to Sydney and return.

Monday - Thursday
ETD AKL 19:30
ETA SYD 21:15
ETD SYD 22:59
ETA AKL 03:40 (+1)

Saturday
ETD AKL 11:30
ETA SYD 13:15
ETD SYD 15:00
ETA AKL 20:30


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jonathan Rankin



User currently offlineEGSUcrew From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6367 times:

Thanks for all the info, I actually didn't realise all of the smaller airlines that operate 757s.

User currently offlineStickShaker From Australia, joined Sep 2004, 739 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6286 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 16):
SQ did operate the 757; looked great in their livery.

SQ had a sub-fleet of 4 757's, I remember doing SIN - CGK on one during the 80's. As aquariusHKG says, they were sold in favour of the 310.

Quoting qf002 (Reply 12):
I think a small fleet of A321/B739ER aircraft could serve QF very well though...

I've always been baffled as to why JQ got the 321 but QF never ordered the 739ER - must be quite a few routes out there that could use them.


Cheers,
StickShaker


User currently online747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3403 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6247 times:

The last 757, was delivered to a China based carrer.

User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6226 times:

I seem to remember that several B-757s were used or preferred to many of the high/hot airports of Tibet, Mongolia, India, etc. They had great performance for high/hot and had a decent load.

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6211 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

The RNZAF operate 2x B752s and are used several times per week on Auckland (Air Force Base) - Ohakea - WLG - CHC. The RNZAF B752s are a frequent visiter to Australia and the Pacific

Royal Tongan Airlines use to operate a B752 before going bust. Was a nice sight seeing it at AKL instead of the usual B747s, B767s and B737s at the international terminal.

Freedom Air (SJ, NZs LCC at the time) also operated a B752 on the HLZ - Australia (SYD?) when SJ first started ops in competition to Kiwi Air on the same routes out of HLZ before moving to ex NZ B732s later B733s and finally A320s before NZ merged SJ into NZ ops.

Kiwi Air out of HLZ. IIRC Kiwi also got some A320s and did a national tour around New Zealand before going bust.


User currently offlineCZ346 From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 6158 times:

Quoting EGSUcrew (Reply 19):

We operate a couple.. from here to like - Urumqi...

The 757 blew up because of NAT routes connecting cities because westerners can't take a connection (I'm one of them). The Asians use big planes for EVERYTHING, and there aren't as many cities that have smaller amounts of traffic that desperately need to be connected. There are some, but no where near as many.


25 aviasian : Some of the airlines that have operated B757s in the Asia Pacific region (and some still operate them) include: Air China (current operator) China Xin
26 PHX787 : I was always curious as to how the DL 757s got to NRT for those intra-Asia routs. Surely, they don't have the legs to do trans-pac, or do they?
27 timf : They usually fly a repositioning flight NRT-ANC then a revenue flight from ANC, or vice-versa. On a couple occasions they have gone through HNL inste
28 SRQKEF : Air Niugini (lsd from Icelandair/Loftleidir) is one airline I know of.
29 Post contains links and images LHRXXXLHR : I have never been a huge fan of the SQ livery but this is pretty sharp: View Large View MediumPhoto © Tim Rees
30 qf002 : A321 NEO's might be a possibility, or even the 739ER MAX... The gap is just going to get bigger moving to a 738/A332 domestic fleet over the next few
31 sweair : Where does 757 outrun the 321/739 on payload range? It seems like 757 constantly has about 11 more seats than 321? 189 vs 200 typical? I have been on
32 Post contains images Akiestar : 5J leased two 757s for use on international routes when they were still a full-service carrier. And if I may say, they were very beautiful 757s!
33 himmat01 : Indian Airlines had ordered the B757 in 1985 but was dropped in favor of the A320.
34 Post contains images HAWK21M : Blue Dart Aviation....Owned by DHL Air does operate B752SF & B752PCF.
35 MHG : Well, I flew on RP-C 2715 in 2003 (MNL-HKG) and although I was hoping to get a DC-9 at the time I enjoyed the flight (going to meet my fiancee soon m
36 NZ107 : JQ operated a few out of OOL - a destination where QF has chosen to leave for JQ for the meantime..
37 nzrich : Kiwi Air based in NZ also operated the 757 at one stage Air NZ leased a britannia airways one for a little bit Royal Tongan had one also
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why No IFE In This Row On The A380 posted Mon Aug 16 2010 07:39:33 by c5load
Why No Seats In Aviodrome Fokker 100 Yet? posted Sat Jun 26 2010 13:26:59 by kl5147
Why No A330s In Japan? posted Mon May 31 2010 08:17:39 by PM
Why No JetBlue In North Texas? posted Fri Mar 12 2010 12:00:30 by USAirways787
Why No PTV's In United Airlines B747 Y Cabin? posted Sun Feb 14 2010 10:47:13 by UALORD
Why No Southwest In NYC Market? posted Sat May 17 2008 20:09:00 by B727fan
Why No Cameras In Aircraft Cabins? posted Fri Jan 4 2008 07:38:33 by VTMAA
Why No Skyteam US-Australia? posted Mon Oct 15 2007 13:25:18 by JetBlueGuy2006
Why No AF In HEL? posted Mon Aug 20 2007 23:45:02 by FFlyer
Why No Airbuses In VA Seven City Area? posted Fri Jun 29 2007 04:38:23 by 747400sp