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IAG Eyes Rescue Deal For AA  
User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15770 times:

Souce: London Sunday Times.

It is reported in the Business section of the newspaper today that "IAG is close to appointing an advisor following meetings with investment banks about the future of AA. IAG is anxious to protect their cost sharing venture on transatlantic routes.
If AA fell into the hands of a IAG rival it could be forced to leave the OneWorld alliance."
Walsh has said in the past that he considers the existing partnership as a pre-cursor to formal merger.
IAG declined to comment.

I would be surprised if Walsh would let this go without a fight after the years the two airlines have worked together.
Interesting times ahead.


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15773 times:

Using US as an example, if they did buy AA, I'd see US leave star and go with Oneworld anyway. Especially to tap Into the JBA and Transatlantic routes.

User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3364 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 15692 times:

I guess its smart for them to plan just in case but i cant see them leaving one world.

The only extremely extremely unlikely scanrio i could guess would be a new alliance is formed and someone who buys AA puts them in that. I cant imagine that alliance could offer even close to what one world does anyway. Emirates would have to really want this to happen and they dont seem to be showing signs of wanting an alliance. Virgin atlantic, virgin america, virgin australia, emirates, AA/US, westjet something like that would be my best guess and im sure they could bring a few other airlines in who feel redundant to bigger brothers and be more of an asset in a new alliance particularly in Europe and Asia. They could bring in a few more airlines i bet but they would still be quite a bit weaker than one world.


User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 14955 times:

I was wondering when IAG and Oneworld might get involved. Perhaps a deal with TPG/IAG and OneWorld itself. Oneworld has a huge stake in the outcome of AA's reorganization. Horton has already been quoted as being open to a merger and I could see AA doing something post BK with one or more US carriers

User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14798 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 1):
Using US as an example, if they did buy AA, I'd see US leave star and go with Oneworld anyway. Especially to tap Into the JBA and Transatlantic routes.

Well, if US goes ahead and takeover AA, then the new US can go anywhere right? And about TA traffic, isnt that low yielding due to over capacity?

Why wouldnt US want to stay in STAR?



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14653 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 4):
Well, if US goes ahead and takeover AA, then the new US can go anywhere right? And about TA traffic, isnt that low yielding due to over capacity?

The JBA with AA IB and BA makes each company a hell of a lot of money, and allows each other to cooperate really well on the routes to LHR MAD etc. Would US not want to tap into that, would provide a lot of feed into the Euro network and vis versa the longhaul network. At the moment, im under the impression US is going at it alone on the Transatlantic routes. It codeshares but it has no JBA JSA JV with its fellow star carriers. It would go from its current, say 1 flight to PHL from LHR, to 3, and have lots of feed from and to places like JFK and the current oneworld hubs.


User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1069 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14639 times:

Can this hinder a US takeover attempt ?

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11454 posts, RR: 61
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14599 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 5):
Would US not want to tap into that, would provide a lot of feed into the Euro network and vis versa the longhaul network.

Absolutely. A hypothetical combined AA-USAirways would have every reason to stay in the current ATI/JBA and oneworld. That arrangement - which is already lucrative for AA and its partners - would be even more so by adding even more U.S.-Europe flying to the deal, particularly since at the moment USAirways is already on the outside looking in on Star's huge ATI/JBA deal, having long ago been crowded out by a growing/merged United-Continental.

Nonetheless, I suppose it does make sense for IAG to at least do due diligence on some sort of participation as a security guarantee to ensure they keep their AA distribution channel into the vast U.S. market. But again - I don't see any way that IAG would lose that partnership, regardless of whether AA merges with another airline or remains independent, anyway.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14519 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
particularly since at the moment USAirways is already on the outside looking in on Star's huge ATI/JBA deal

That did surprise me that they are not in the ATI


User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7511 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 14472 times:

The odds of AA leaving OneWorld even with a takeover are slim to none. Even if US and AA merge, the combined carrier would (without a doubt) be a part of OneWorld. I dont think IAG has anything to worry about.


Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2949 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 14378 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 9):
I dont think IAG has anything to worry about.

Agreed. This is a PR move on IAG's part to make it clear that they will do what is necessary to retain AA's partnership. There is no doubt that Oneworld and the Atlantic JBA is where AA (or any merged carrier) belongs.


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 14139 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):

Absolutely. A hypothetical combined AA-USAirways would have every reason to stay in the current ATI/JBA and oneworld.

However, doesn't the ATI/JBA agreement stop when one of the parties is taken over? In the hypothetical case that US takes over AA I wonder if the ATI/JBA is still valid as one of the parties isn't there anymore and the scope of the ATI/JBA has changed. If you look at the AF/KL/DL situation you'll see a similiar situation where AF buys AZ, but before they can add AZ to the ATI they have to run through the whole procedure (again).


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13944 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 11):

Would that depend on who's operating license is taken over. Could US buy AA and use the AA operating license?


User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13770 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 12):
Could US buy AA and use the AA operating license?

Thats an idea, what would the lawyers say?               



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13699 times:

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 13):

Looking at the America West - US thing. America West Brought - US, who's operating license are they using?


User currently offlinereadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3192 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13650 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 14):

Blimey, its never simple,is it !



you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlinegizmonc From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13591 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 14):
Looking at the America West - US thing. America West Brought - US, who's operating license are they using?

US Airways was the name that survived and US Airways Certificate was the one used... all US Airways tickets are 037.

Basically America West was disolved. Just like SWA with do with Airtran. Currently SWA and FL are on a joint certificate but FL is a seperate company operated by Guadalupe Holding Company which is wholly owned by SWA. FYI when former FL management and SWA management met to discuss the purchase the room at the hotel was used for the HOLDING COMPANY.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 13435 times:

Quoting gizmonc (Reply 16):
US Airways was the name that survived and US Airways Certificate was the one used... all US Airways tickets are 037.

Simple then, if this was to go ahead, US buy AA, dissolve US Airways and be a stronger AA, with all the benefits AA currently has when it comes to JBA JVA ATI etc etc etc.

Personally I feel AA has the bigger name in the world compared to US.


User currently offlineAAExecplat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 634 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13327 times:

There can be no doubt that whatever US can offer, IAG can offer so much more and assure more continuity than would be true in case of a takeover by US. I still think the US merger will happen, but it better happen after AA exits from bk so that they can either be the acquirer or at least have it be a "merger of equals"...

User currently offlineseatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 756 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13185 times:

Maybe IAG feels they could back AA in a rescue deal, secure up AA and then, after BK they bid for US...so essentially AA is in charge and not US.

User currently offlineBoeing773ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12990 times:

Quoting kl911 (Reply 4):

US would want to leave star because they are completely overshadowed by the new UA. Also if US would buy AA then UA and US would have a lot of overlap(ORD/LAX). Also I don't think the DOJ would allow the merger to pass if US had the intention to stay in Star.



Work Hard, Fly Right.
User currently offlineetops1 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1069 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12690 times:

What if IAG was helping US aquire AA?? We all know that after US aquires AA they will still be a member of oneworld. So IAG still wins . And they get a much stronger AA out of it .I don't know .I am just sayin. You never know whats being worked out behind closed doors .

User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11790 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 12):
Could US buy AA and use the AA operating license?

Sure. Which company is the acquiring entity has nothing to do with which operating certificate stays.

In the case of the US-HP merger, HP was effectively the acquiring entity (just as US would be this time), but not legally, as it was structured as a reverse takeover; i.e., HP merged into a subsidiary of US and thus became a subsidiary of US, and the surviving entity was US (but HP was treated as the acquiring entity for accounting purposes). The certificate that stayed was US's.

Another example is the UA-CO merger, where UA acquired CO and was the surviving entity, but for various reasons, the CO certificate is the one that stayed (with the name changed) and UA's certificate was retired.

My suspicion is that if we see an AA-US merger, it will be structured a lot like the US-HP merger was, though I'm not sure whether the AA certificate or the US certificate would stay, as that seemingly depends on a variety of factors.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlineoflanigan From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11771 times:

AA management sucks and everyone knows it. IAG must be worried that a US run AA might try to be the powerhouse in Oneworld and go it alone. Don't get me wrong that being in an alliance does have its benefits, but a US run AA might try to become a truly global airline and brand. I might be wrong.

Only reason anyone would still want AA run by the current AA management is so they can manipulate and exploit. Doesn't solve the issues AA has at home.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 11652 times:

Quoting oflanigan (Reply 23):
Only reason anyone would still want AA run by the current AA management is so they can manipulate and exploit.

You really think thats the reason IAG are trying to help?

Quoting oflanigan (Reply 23):
AA management sucks and everyone knows it

They must of been doing something right to be one of the only big US majors to have only just gone into Cpt 11 for the first time, while others have been in and out a few times sometimes. Personally I think they have been doing very well under very tough conditions.

Quoting oflanigan (Reply 23):
but a US run AA might try to become a truly global airline and brand

Whats wrong with that? Thats a good thing. With assistance and cooperation from its alliance partners thats made even easier to do.


25 oflanigan : Well then I hope they see the need to partner with US to form a New AA. Lets see how it plays out.
26 Post contains links context : Two questions: 1. (To the OP) Would you please drop a link to the article? All I could find was http://www.marketwatch.com/story/iag...merican-airline
27 cjpmaestro : I have to admit I know very little about IAG other than it's a foreign entity comprised of BA and IB. From what I read about their performance in 2011
28 jfk777 : What makes USair's managers so "special" ? They still have two pilot seniority lists after 7 years of being merged.
29 etops1 : It's not USAirways managements fault that the pilot group is separated . That's the pilots and unions fault . Management cannot interfere with union i
30 oflanigan : And with the Pilot issue in mind, I hope that APA and USAPA can come together and talk, constructively of course. Both are part of CAPA the Coalition
31 oflanigan : And maybe sucks was a little harsh. I'll take that one back. I like the AA product flew them in First just recently. On time, great service. But that
32 Boeing773ER : This is news to me, since when did BA fly to DCA? Just kidding, I think you meant IAD.
33 Post contains images airtechy : Since we heard that Delta had hired "advisers" re: the AA bankruptcy, they have been strangely quiet. I wonder when some new news will emerge from Atl
34 william : Since everyone here is so giddy for AA and US to merge, let me go ahead and say it. This a blocking move against USAirways. I guess IAG did not truly
35 liftsifter : I think a Delta merger would prove to be very... interesting. An airline that just completed a merger, merging again. Especially considering Delta is
36 Byrdluvs747 : As I have stated many times, IAG will be involved in any AA buyout. I also count in TPG. Delta has no horse in this race. Just look at how the DOJ and
37 Post contains links VV701 : If you have the time to read it this comprehensive and excellent analysis of TATL traffic may answer your question: http://www.msmaviation.com/public
38 AAplat4life : Given some of the less than complimentary things UA said about US when UA was merging with CO, I'm sure US would like to get away from US. I think th
39 cjpmaestro : Oh my bad! I did mean IAD.
40 lucky777 : It wasn't ony UA that had less than nice things to say about LCC during its ill-fated courtship. Delta employees were absolutely repulsed when news c
41 cjpark : We have an airline managed pretty much by the same team that kept them out of bankruptcy longer than any other legacy carrier, a route system that ma
42 PezySPU : Why can't it be the other way around? Are there any particular reasons why you don't say it's a crazy management team that kept AA out of bankruptcy
43 lhr380 : Do everything you can to not take the easy way out, or just take the easy way?
44 Post contains links and images readytotaxi : Sorry Justin, there is no link. The Times newspaper is a "pay to view" on line now. I wrote the bit after reading the newspaper on Sunday. Here is a
45 PezySPU : Umm, exactly. *If* AA succeeded and turned itself into a healthy business without Ch11, it would be awesome and an example to everyone. Unfortunately
46 enilria : The key question as I keep saying is whether IAG is on board with US merging with AA. I don't think it is very valuable to them. There are no hubs of
47 Post contains images readytotaxi : Good post.
48 LAXtoATL : You are correct, it was extremely poor management for AA to postpone bankruptcy restructuring! If it had worked, they would have been hailed as visio
49 Post contains images context : WOW! Amazing resource, thank you. Fumbling through that has certainly helped me get a clearer picture! Ahh, got it. Thanks for the link to IAG. Inter
50 AAplat4life : 1. ATI rights light years behind other alliances. 2. What will be a clean balance sheet will be a result of bankruptcy filing. 3. The new efficient f
51 VV701 : I am no expert in American bankruptcy law. So anything I say is open to correction by those who know better. But as far as I know the duties of the b
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