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Emirates Seattle Route Load Factor  
User currently offlineRajtravels From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 3 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 20066 times:

Any idea how is Emirates new Seattle route doing? From A/C change from 300ER to 200LR how is the load factor in this route.

69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 693 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 19906 times:

How long ago did they change from the 300-er to the smaller LR?? Makes sense to me though. I always thought it (777-300er) would be too much plane for that route.

User currently offlineredrooster3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 229 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 19748 times:

Isn't it a little too early to judge a new route?

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 1):
How long ago did they change from the 300-er to the smaller LR?? Makes sense to me though. I always thought it (777-300er) would be too much plane for that route.

EK usually starts new US routes with 77L's, then later when the route matures, they switch to 77W/A380.



The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
User currently offlineliftsifter From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 19534 times:

I don't quite think the rote gets enough to even warrant a 77L. While it is early, it's safe to assume they're making a killing off of cargo on the route.


A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A342 A343 A346 A380 B738 B744 B763 B772 B77W B787 Q400 E190
User currently offlineaerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 19467 times:

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 3):
While it is early, it's safe to assume they're making a killing off of cargo on the route.

How so? what are they carrying?



What?
User currently offlineliftsifter From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 19427 times:

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 4):
How so? what are they carrying?

No idea exactly what they're carrying, but EK wouldn't start the route if there wasn't a good trade for cargo on the route.



A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A342 A343 A346 A380 B738 B744 B763 B772 B77W B787 Q400 E190
User currently offlineaerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 19402 times:

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 5):
No idea exactly what they're carrying, but EK wouldn't start the route if there wasn't a good trade for cargo on the route.

Perhaps carrying Boeing parts for their aircraft back to Dubai MX lol, maybe cheaper to haul it themselves rather than pay for others  



What?
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 19317 times:

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 4):
How so? what are they carrying?

Some of the goods expected to be carried include seafood, fresh fruits and vegetables, medical equipment, software, technology and telecommunications equipment, computer and electronic products, non-electrical machinery, chemicals and fabricated metal products. Additionally there would be aircraft parts and aircraft engines to service the growing fleet and the Emirates Engineering facilities which carries out maintenance under contract to other airlines.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 18905 times:

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 7):

I'm guessing the engine isn't a GE90 considering the sheer size of the powerplants  

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3384 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 18644 times:

I think EK put a lot of thought into the decision to operate a daily service to SEA, they did it in a traditionally slow period of the year for travel. It's way too soon to debate if this route will make it long term, but I'd expect passengers are not the largest motivating factor for EK on this route.

This flight is not just for Seattle, but the entire Northwest, in addition to the goods that can transport via EK cargo, would be products made here in Oregon from Intel, as well as business travel for Nike, Adidas, Freightliner and more. I think SEA is a season -sentric market, and if airlines want to go year round, you have to ebb and flow with the season. BA has at some point been less than daily to London during the off season, or a tag via YVR, to a twice daily operation during the summer.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 18544 times:

The 77L was put on the route because the 77W is needed elsewhere as A380 substitution while that fleet is undergoing wing-crack repairs. The 77W should be back on the DXB-SEA-DXB run around May.


..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineboeing773W From South Africa, joined Mar 2012, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17088 times:

Quoting rotating14 (Reply 1):
How long ago did they change from the 300-er to the smaller LR?? Makes sense to me though. I always thought it (777-300er) would be too much plane for that route.

They only operated the 77W for the first 2-3 days or so following the launch, and then switched to the 77L.

Quoting aerohottie (Reply 6):
Perhaps carrying Boeing parts for their aircraft back to Dubai MX lol, maybe cheaper to haul it themselves rather than pay for others

Cargo is definitely a large part of it but it can't only be cargo, otherwise they would have just launched a freight service with Emirates SkyCargo to SEA. There's probably quite a bit of passenger traffic otherwise they wouldn't have launched the route. As the poster further up noted, the traffic is not just SEA bound, but the entire northwestern United States.

Also, let's not forget that Vancouver is pretty close and I have no doubt that there would be people from there who would fly EK from SEA. They've been facing fierce opposition from the Canadians with launching service to new cities there (even increasing YYZ service).


User currently offlineboeing773W From South Africa, joined Mar 2012, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 16994 times:

Just checked the EK website and they do in fact route YVR passengers through SEA with AS codeshare.

User currently offlineaerohottie From Australia, joined Mar 2004, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 16352 times:

Quoting boeing773W (Reply 12):
Just checked the EK website and they do in fact route YVR passengers through SEA with AS codeshare.

Ah, very interesting. A bit of a two finger salute to the Canadian authorities I presume  



What?
User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 16047 times:

I think people sometimes forget that load factor has nothing to do with how profitable the route is.
First Class/Business Class and Cargo are the main 'bread & butter' for any route.
Load factor can be low, but what it matter is the yields.


User currently offlinefrmrcapcadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1731 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 15826 times:

India, East Africa, others were somewhat difficult from Seattle. This flight fills a noticable gap.


Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 994 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 15670 times:

I think another question is how badly are they hurting BA SEA-LHR, DL SEA-AMS and AF SEA-CDG, LH SEA-FRA? I'm sure they've all taken a wee hit from losing many of those with connections to the Middle East, India and Africa.

User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 15645 times:

Quoting something (Reply 10):
The 77L was put on the route because the 77W is needed elsewhere as A380 substitution while that fleet is undergoing wing-crack repairs. The 77W should be back on the DXB-SEA-DXB run around May.

Maybe...I felt they needed the capacity down here in Houston after we lost the 2nd daily to DFW and the single daily 77L was not enough capacity whereas 2 daily was too much capacity. I never saw SEA warranting the 77W capacity - maybe after a few seasons.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7707 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 15482 times:

From what Ive heard, so far, the loads are in the toilet. There have been days when J has had less than 5 rev. business pax.

But it is way too early to make a judgement. Give it time and let it build.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlinevadheim From Norway, joined Jul 2000, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 15320 times:

They could make a stop in Scandinavia on it's way to/from Seattle -
I bet that could help the load factor if a problem today.

I guess they need to fly 'that way' (i.e. across Scandinavia) anyway  


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 994 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 15186 times:

Quoting vadheim (Reply 19):
They could make a stop in Scandinavia on it's way to/from Seattle

I'm still holding out for AS to start SEA-OSL   


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5082 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11318 times:

They have been advertising well here in Seattle. The route will do just fine, especially when cruise season kicks in to gear.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11192 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 21):
They have been advertising well here in Seattle. The route will do just fine, especially when cruise season kicks in to gear.

I don't think cruise season will have a big impact on this route - it will just take some time for it to develop...much like SQ at IAH. EK will stick it out for awhile...hopefully.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10898 times:

One of the more unique routes IMO. I think it is too niche of a route to work long term especially when factoring in the ULH nature of the route.

User currently offlinerwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3110 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10810 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 21):
They have been advertising well here in Seattle. The route will do just fine, especially when cruise season kicks in to gear.

Are people from the Middle East, India, and Africa really flying all the way to Seattle to take an Alaska cruise? I doubt it.


25 wedgetail737 : Middle East and India, you'd be surprised. Africa...I agree...not so much. SEA is also today's gateway to Vancouver and western Canada. I think AS co
26 Roseflyer : Cargo is somewhat a myth. Even if it was a cargo heavy route, it wouldn't be more than 10% of the revenue from the route and in reality I'd expect it
27 ER757 : That's actually true, no smiley needed. This absolutely played a part in their decision to start SEA. It was by no means the one reason they came her
28 Roseflyer : And none of those operations are close to daily other than FedEx. SEA doesn't have anywhere near the cargo of airports like ANC, ORD or LAX in the US
29 Post contains images lightsaber : What is SEA-DXB's load factor? While I respect EK's business model. But quite simply, no company bats 1000. (100% success rate) There is enough scuttl
30 MAH4546 : The thing is, EK is absolutely dumping capacity in the market, including sub-$2000 J fares. Even if it's the "wrong time," even if it's a small market
31 drerx7 : True...but in this economy there may not be enough people to pay even those 'insanely cheap' fares. You can spur enough market to fill a 737 to Panam
32 seabosdca : SEA in general is absurdly seasonal. (Just look at the weather month by month and you'll understand why...) I know EK doesn't usually operate seasonal
33 Roseflyer : Some airlines drop SEA from daily to 4 or 5 times per week. Does EK operate other routes on a subdaily basis, because that is what some long haul air
34 Post contains images ER757 : If you lived in Seattle, don't you think a nice, warm, dry desert destination with lots and lots of tourist activities would sound good on those rain
35 drerx7 : That's what Florida, Vegas, Hawaii, and any number of other destinations that are less than a 14hr flight to an uber expensive destination in a reces
36 wedgetail737 : I'm sure the population EK is looking for in the DXB-SEA market isn't all tourists. Tourists, for the most part, will fill the coach section of the 77
37 AirIndia : not only business but also VFR from employees here esp in Microsoft, Expedia that have a significant South Asian skew. From my relatives in SEA i am
38 texdravid : Why did EK start SEA with a 77W and DFW with a 77L? Did they expect SEA to have more demand than DFW? By the way, how is EK's DFW-DXB doing? How is it
39 wedgetail737 : Since Dubai is obtaining a larger role in the Hydro races, I think it would be a good PR for EK to be a sponsor of Seafair.
40 PITrules : Its making DL's LAX-SYD flight, according to their VP of Cargo.
41 MAH4546 : Other EK markets are seeing similar capacity dumps and reacting far better, even in this economy. And, honestly, if traffic was so bad right now, air
42 RWA380 : A member of my family is from India, he works for IBM in PDX and goes to India 2-3 times a year to see family, and he goes via AMS or SIN, he likes b
43 Quokkas : Microsoft Gulf opened its Dubai-based headquarters in 1991. This office acts as a regional office for the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman,
44 something : Do 'we' have any hard numbers though, or is this all mere speculation based on feelings? I know for a fact that the route is scheduled to return to a
45 wedgetail737 : Apparently FI is doing well from SEA to KEF and beyond. Maybe FI was the best solution for those destinations in Scandinavia and other Northern Europ
46 LAXintl : Wait another month. The airports March traffic reports will be out in late April. For cargo, SEA is rather small fry in the US. ACI-North America rank
47 HiFlyerAS : Unless some of you arm-chair airline CEO's are sitting at the EK gate in SEA with a counter in your hand you have no basis for any of this speculation
48 sq_ek_freak : Out of curiosity, where did you find the sub-$2000 Business Class fares? Also what dates were you looking at, and what was your final destination, Du
49 flyyul : Yeah looking at the seat maps it looks like the F/J cabins are very weak. Economy seems to be busy. Dallas looks like it's doing relatively well
50 RJNUT : i think recently they ran a DFW-to EK Network special for free Biz class upgrade off full coach ,so that may have been what he saw...it was only abou
51 Stitch : Could be performance. A 777-200LR can operate with a full payload out of DXB with temps north of 40°C and DFW and IAH can be that hot in the summer.
52 seabosdca : Those are vastly more likely to make money, for two reasons: 1) there are not many alternatives (where there are many alternatives from SEA on U.S. a
53 BoeingGuy : SK made SEA work for over 40 years. LH entered the market and SK was having financial problems IIRC. That's why they dropped SEA, not because SEA cou
54 Post contains images Quokkas : Yes: EK does but they aren't paid up members of this forum. OK, I know you didn't want to hear that. Not sure? OK, in this thread everything else is
55 drerx7 : Yeah, but IAH often saw the 77W subbed when it was 2 daily, and now it is a daily 77W.
56 Post contains images ER757 : Using that logic, no one in NYC would ever go to Hawaii when Florida and the Bahamas are so much closer and so much cheaper. I guess HA is going to b
57 BoeingGuy : Oh I get it. EK forgot to pay their A.net dues so now they can't post their load factors and financial performance in threads like this. So the rest
58 drerx7 : Wrong, HNL-JFK is a totally different market...and you know that, besides SEA being a smaller O&D market the airfare in all classes will superced
59 threeifbyair : People do like to explore, but they do so infrequently. You might check out DXB once, but not every winter. Here in SEA, I know many people who go to
60 lightsaber : I second. We had something close: Thank you for looking into the available seats. That at least tells us 'something.' I would expect SEA to have even
61 YVRLTN : I'd be interested to see if there is any leakage from YVR. I suppose two short term indicators will be QX's LF's and if BA put in the 2nd flight this
62 Gunsontheroof : SK was in town for over forty years before their ongoing financial problems/LH's entry into SEA forced them out. If offering forty years of continuou
63 wedgetail737 : I believe that's expanded service from last summer. I think they only flew 2X weekly last summer. I agree that fares may be cheaper out of YVR, but t
64 wedgetail737 : I wish I could post a YouTube video about Emirates. One of the goals of Emirates Airlines is to serve cruise locations throughout the world, hence, S
65 CXfirst : From flight radar, I see that flight, along with many other North American flights travel over Norway. This ranges from the south of Norway to the No
66 Post contains links Coronado : Perhaps this should be a new topic, but it does not seem like Emirates is resting on their laurels and keep pushing. I was surprised that their advert
67 ER757 : yes it is. It's almost totally leisure travel, SEA/DXB is mixed business and leisure. Not everyone who flies for business travels in business class,
68 Roseflyer : It is true that the demand is weaker than SFO, but there is also less competition. There are connections via LHR, AMS, CDG and FRA to the Middle East
69 drerx7 : That's a half decent point you make; however, if there is not a lot of traffic to begin with then it doesn't matter where they sit. There is more lei
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