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UA IAD-CDG Upguage To Ipte 763  
User currently offlinekfitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9267 times:

Summer schedule confirms IAD-CDG will be upguaged to a 3-cabin IPTE 763. As is well known, the 2-cabin CO 752 was having severe issues completing the route as the aircraft was being pushed to its absolute limits. UA was getting hammered from corporate accounts on both side of the Atlantic for their inability to provide nonstop service. A national story in the WSJ served to further increase the heat and throw doubt on the decision.

[Edited 2012-03-26 04:02:14]

86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 9180 times:
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BRAVO, a 757 to a city it never should have flown to bights the dust. A 757 from Washington to Paris is ridiculous, what was United thinking. Maybe UA should launch one-stop 757 Houston to Europe flights with a stop in lovely Nova Scotia.

User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9093 times:

The decision to put a 757 on IAD-CDG is one of the more idiotic airline decisions of all time.

In an ideal world, the person who made that decision and the ones who signed off on it should be fired before they make any more foolis, off the wall decisions.

On a more positrive note, I am glad that UA has come to their senses. I wonder if the advance booksings took a real nose dive and thats what brought UA around to putting a 763. Progress any way we can get it.


User currently offlineCONTACREW From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9079 times:

Quoting kfitz (Thread starter):
Summer schedule confirms IAD-CDG will be upguaged to a 3-cabin IPTE 763. As is well known, the 2-cabin CO 752 was having severe issues completing the route as the aircraft was being pushed to its absolute limits. UA was getting hammered from corporate accounts on both side of the Atlantic for their inability to provide nonstop service. A national story in the WSJ served to further increase the heat and throw doubt on the decision.

Hate to rain on your little parade, but that 752 is taking over 1 of the IAD-LHR trips this summer. So IAD-CDG will be a sUA 763, IAD-LHR will have a sCO 752.



Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8958 times:

Also EWR-CDG is going from 1 757 and 1 767 to 2 757s.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinekfitz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8930 times:

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 3):

Correct. There will still be two 3-cabin widebody 777s daily to Heathrow for those so inclined.


User currently offlineTdan From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 445 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8862 times:

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 2):
In an ideal world, the person who made that decision and the ones who signed off on it should be fired before they make any more foolis, off the wall decisions.

Really? Seems a tad irrational...you know CO flew 757s on EWR-CDG and continues to do so on EWR-LHR, which are routes with significantly more first/business demand than IAD-CDG, right?

FTR, I thought it wasn't the best move to put 757s against an A380, particularly when UA is so peaked at IAD. However, given EWR's 757 experience, there was some logic to the move as it allowed UA to increase frequency without completely destroying the economics. The test didn't work as well as planned, so a widebody returns to the route. No big deal. Should all the DL staff be fired for all the routes that they've tried over the years and failed? Heck no. Sometimes you actually have to implement ideas to see whether or not they actually work.



We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8807 times:

I'm selfishly happy to see the 767 return to IAD-CDG. Question though: Will they be getting rid of the second daily flight (which was introduced when they brought the 757s to the route)?

Quoting kfitz (Thread starter):
Summer schedule confirms IAD-CDG will be upguaged to a 3-cabin IPTE 763.

I'd expect this to be a 2-class 763 eventually.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
Also EWR-CDG is going from 1 757 and 1 767 to 2 757s.

Interesting. I truly believe that all A.netter complaints aside, CO/UA management doesn't view the 757 on a "prestigious" route as a bad thing at all. I'm sure they'd be happy to have multiple daily 757s from EWR & IAD to most European cities if range/performance wasn't an issue.

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 3):
IAD-LHR will have a sCO 752.

Interesting. I wonder if this is the AM flight?


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8797 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 7):
Will they be getting rid of the second daily flight (which was introduced when they brought the 757s to the route)?

Yes.

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 7):
I'd expect this to be a 2-class 763 eventually.

I checked UA.com, it is a two class 763.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8773 times:

I just did some searching, it looks like IAD-LHR is keeping it's 3X daily widebodies and getting an additional 757-200. Not bad at all! Interesting comparison: I believe that EWR-LHR has been 4X 757 and 1X 777. IAD-LHR is pretty much the opposite.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):

I checked UA.com, it is a two class 763.

So will EWR-IST and IAD-CDG be the first 2-class 763 routes then? Will they have enough birds converted this soon to maintain this schedule in the summer?


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8731 times:

About time. IAD-CDG was a stupid CO mgmt related decision. IAD-LHR on a 757 isn't much better but I'm assuming that will be an AM crossing. As long as the evening 777 doesn't change, then it shouldn't matter much.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
Also EWR-CDG is going from 1 757 and 1 767 to 2 757s.

This sucks. UA should have no problem operating at the very least a 762 on the route since AF dropped out.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineCONTACREW From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8720 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 7):
Interesting. I wonder if this is the AM flight?

Nope it departs at 6:59p, odd time for a departure IMO.



Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8720 times:
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Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
About time. IAD-CDG was a stupid CO mgmt related decision. IAD-LHR on a 757 isn't much better but I'm assuming that will be an AM crossing. As long as the evening 777 doesn't change, then it shouldn't matter much

The 757 could operate the morning day flight to LHR which is not that big a deal since demand is smaller in the morning.


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8709 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):

The 757 could operate the morning day flight to LHR which is not that big a deal since demand is smaller in the morning.

I guess it's doing well enough that United thought it best to add an additional frequency in the evening instead. Probably not a bad bet; IAD-LHR should do rather well in the summer, especially with the Olympics this year.


User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8700 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
This sucks. UA should have no problem operating at the very least a 762 on the route since AF dropped out.

AF has not dropped out of IAD-CDG. In fact they have use a 380 on the route. IAD is also. rumored to be, one of AF most profitable routes.


User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2209 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8700 times:

pmUA will also take over EWR-GVA using three class 763s.

User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8689 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 12):
The 757 could operate the morning day flight to LHR which is not that big a deal since demand is smaller in the morning.

I agree but the problem would be the return LHR-IAD probably needs the extra seats.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8655 times:

EWR-SFO gets a PMUA 2-class 763 starting in June:

http://www.united.com/web/en-US/apps...t/seatView.aspx?lti=1&sg=6&class=W



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8642 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 17):
EWR-SFO gets a PMUA 2-class 763 starting in June:

Like I said above, does United have enough 763s converted into 2-class to maintain EWR-IST, EWR-SFO, and IAD-CDG? I can't imagine so...I could see the first two routes, but I'm not sure IAD-CDG will be 2-class (for this summer).


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2436 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8605 times:

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 2):
The decision to put a 757 on IAD-CDG is one of the more idiotic airline decisions of all time.
Quoting Tdan (Reply 6):
The test didn't work as well as planned,
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
About time. IAD-CDG was a stupid CO mgmt related decision.

The 757 on the route wasn't some kind of trial balloon, but born out of necessity. In the last year, UA shifted a 3-cabin 777 to EWR-BRU, 3-cabin 763 to EWR-ZRH, launched 2-cabin 777 IAH-LOS, and added 764 IAH-GIG. At the same time, 3 762s and 3 744s were removed from the fleet, plus multiple 777s/767s were out of service to receive new interiors. Obviously, service on some routes needed to be cut in order to sustain this expansion. Two weaker, non-core IAD-Europe routes (to SkyTeam hubs) were downgauged, unsurprisingly.

With 787s coming online later this year and domestic 763ERs being retrofit to international standard, there is more slack in the widebody schedule, IAD-CDG returns to a 767, and order is restored to the universe.  
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):
This sucks. UA should have no problem operating at the very least a 762 on the route since AF dropped out.

The J class on the 762 is inferior to the 757 in virtually every way, and I can already hear the complaints about operating a dated product "on such a prestigious route".


User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2731 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8587 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 18):
Like I said above, does United have enough 763s converted into 2-class to maintain EWR-IST, EWR-SFO, and IAD-CDG? I can't imagine so...I could see the first two routes, but I'm not sure IAD-CDG will be 2-class (for this summer).

Maybe the EWR-SFO will be a 763 pre-IPTE??? or maybe even the EWR-IST will be pre-IPTE???


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3922 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8572 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 18):
Like I said above, does United have enough 763s converted into 2-class to maintain EWR-IST, EWR-SFO, and IAD-CDG? I can't imagine so...I could see the first two routes, but I'm not sure IAD-CDG will be 2-class (for this summer).

It could possibly be a routing involving IAD, EWR, SFO, IST and CDG, using aircraft during downtime and shuffling a rather small (to begin with) fleet through the system, as required.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4301 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 8560 times:
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Quoting IADLHR (Reply 14):
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 10):This sucks. UA should have no problem operating at the very least a 762 on the route since AF dropped out.

AF has not dropped out of IAD-CDG. In fact they have use a 380 on the route. IAD is also. rumored to be, one of AF most profitable routes

It was OpenSkies that flew its last IAD-ORY flight last October 28th.


User currently offlineCONTACREW From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8548 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 20):
Maybe the EWR-SFO will be a 763 pre-IPTE??? or maybe even the EWR-IST will be pre-IPTE???

Starting off EWR-IST will be flown with a 3-cabin 763, then later on down the road will transition to the reconfigured 2-cabin 763.



Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 8494 times:

Quoting United787 (Reply 20):
Maybe the EWR-SFO will be a 763 pre-IPTE??? or

When I randomly checked it, EWR-SFO is a "ghetto bird" 763. Still, I don't think EWR-SFO has seen any widebodies on this route since the early 2000s -- If not, then 1999. Quite exciting.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 19):
The J class on the 762 is inferior to the 757 in virtually every way, and I can already hear the complaints about operating a dated product "on such a prestigious route".

More space in J on the 762. Plus if you have that middle seat in the 2-1-2 configuration, you're set. There are lots of complaints about the cramped nature of the size of the flatbed on the PMCO 752s.

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 14):

No but AF dropped out of EWR-CDG (what I was referring to) hence why 2x 757 for UA on EWR-CDG is just lame.



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
25 Sulley : I called it -- and I expect it to eventually be a two class 763.
26 CODC10 : Flat beats recliner any day of the week. I'm not a small guy and I've never had a problem with the 757 flat bed. All I'm concerned with on a transatl
27 TOMMY767 : For taller people I'm sure it's a bit of an annoyance. The 767s have an expresso machine? That's impressive!
28 washingtonian : Well it looks like IAD-CDG will actually be a 3-class 763 (just like EWR-IST at first). I still bet that in a few months it will be a 2-class 763, alo
29 CODC10 : Have you flown on it? I'm 6'3" 215lbs and a side sleeper. I have no problems with it... but I highly recommend the bulkhead seats. Yes, the sCO 767s
30 STT757 : EWR-GVA also goes to a 2 class 763, EWR-ZRH is a 3 class 763. He was refering to EWR. It's two class.
31 washingtonian : Did I miss this announecment? So for international routes out of Newark, it's just EWR-ZRH,BRU, and GVA on pre-merger United aircraft right now corre
32 Roseflyer : Do you actually know that the decision was because of the 757 having to make fuel diversions? December was a bad month with strong winds and about 30
33 jfk777 : Washington to Paris, France " Non-Core" ? Really ? Paris is Not a Star alliance hub but its still one of the European Big 3. O & D from Washingto
34 TOMMY767 : 30%? It might had been more than that on some weeks. Etiher way it's unacceptable.
35 gigneil : It wasn't more than that any weeks. NS
36 avi8 : Wait, so what's the new configuration of the 767-300's? Will they have AVOD and wifi?
37 Roseflyer : Undesirable… Absolutely yes. Unacceptable… UA management doesn't think so. Some airlines would never operate a route that might require tech stop
38 washingtonian : Yup. I think there are a lot of natural routes from Newark, Washington, and Chicago that will not require 3-class aircraft from United once everythin
39 max550 : AF pretty much owns that route. They have an A380 and 777 on IAD-CDG already. UA picks up the people who have to fly UA. Why put a bigger plane on th
40 Post contains images kgaiflyer : I agree. I'm 6'1" @ 265 lbs (obviously all muscle ) and enjoy the flat-beds on the MIA-EWR - (LHR) route. If there is so much room that you can lose
41 STT757 : And EZE.
42 TOMMY767 : EWR: PMUA 763s: EZE, IST, GVA, ZRH. SFO is showing up as a 2-class 763. PMUA 757: SAN, SEA, MCO, MIA, BOS, ORD, DEN, SFO. PMUA A319/A320: SXM, ORD, D
43 drerx7 : You can add an IAH turn to both of those.
44 STT757 : And a PMUA 3 class 777 EWR-BRU.
45 CALMSP : IAD-CDG is slated for 3-class until as far out as I can see. IAH-DEN gets a weekend 2-class 763 with continuing service to HNL (not a permanent schedu
46 drerx7 : It looks like its the LIM bird. On those Saturdays and Sundays that it operates...as far as I can tell, IAH-SFO is not operated with a 763 but with a
47 washingtonian : As of when? I'll ask again: How many of the 14 763s will be in the 2-class IPTE conversion as of this summer?
48 drerx7 : Anything out of IAH? Are there any rumblings of 744 or 777 out of IAH?
49 laca773 : Since AF is pulling out, I'd think this would give UA the opportunity to increase their service. One JY 75W and a JY 763ER. I think they should have
50 LipeGIG : In fact IAH-GIG has always been 764 and now they are introducing a weekly 772 service (to become daily on IATA winter 2012/2013). The 764 was introdu
51 gigneil : NOBODY KNOOOWS. :-p NS
52 aznmadsci : But isn't the AF pull out from EWR replaced by a DL flight or has Skyteam left EWR-CDG?
53 STT757 : No replacement, it's UA EWR-CDG and Openskies EWR-ORY.
54 washingtonian : Lol. Making it all the more frustrating, if you search for flights on United.com for any of these routes you see 3-class 767s.
55 CODC10 : A good indicator of planned routes for the two-cabin 763ER is zeroed-out F cabin availability for advance bookings. For 9/15/12 EWR-IST: .1...UA.904.
56 jfk777 : I have a hard time believeing IAD to CDG is such a dog, if it is for UA they must be doing something wrong. AF "owns" the route because United let th
57 TOMMY767 : IIRC, there was nothing necessarily wrong with UA on IAD-CDG when CO put their 2x 757s on it. I remember a thread where I got flamed saying that peop
58 FlyPNS1 : UA is cancelling IAD-EZE. AF does well on IAD-CDG because AF has a massive hub on the other end that connects to all of Europe, Africa, Middle East,
59 CODC10 : Most of those places have nonstop service from CDG, so connecting traffic will necessarily be lower-yielding except in unusual circumstances. On the
60 TOMMY767 : Yeah and even more surprising as to why DL won't pick up the route on their own metal since they already fly EWR-AMS
61 Roseflyer : It's not that the route doesn't work, it is just that there is a lot of competition and the Y cabin is where most of the capacity is needed. The lega
62 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Until October 2011, there were *three* airlines on the route -- Air France, OpenSkies, and United. Open Skies dropped out in October after Air France
63 gigneil : United hasn't flown SFO-CDG since 2000. I wish you were right about IAD-CDG for UA. You aren't. But one way or the other, its getting a 767 back as a
64 jfk777 : United has decided to only fly from two of its hubs to Buenos Aires, the east coast flight is moving to Newark from IAD, its not getting cancelled. H
65 aznmadsci : While AF and KL used to have a big presence at IAH, especially when CO was with SkyTeam, all 3 airlines have cut back. AF used to have 2x daily IAH-C
66 gigneil : And leave the Honolulu passengers where? I promise that they know more about running that airline than you do. NS
67 drerx7 : LOL, exactly. Hawaii is not as low yielding as people think - the low yields are compensated for by massive capacity...hence the most Y heavy birds o
68 LJ : Probably the same reason why UA seems to downgauge EWR-CDG as mentioned by STT757 Thus apparently there is not much demand between EWR and CDG.
69 AADC10 : Is there any indication that the upguage will last all year or is it seasonal? I am not sure if it is necessarily prestige but it was to appeal to bus
70 gigneil : They CLEARLY have LAX-FRA. NS
71 WAC : I think people forget the role of contract sthat UA have....it is most probable the IAD-CDG is dominant on fliers that are flying part on corporate co
72 IADLHR : There is huge amount of diplomatic traffic from IAD-CDG and on to many other places. A huge percentage of it goes AF. A great percenatge of that even
73 gigneil : I don't know why anyone would think that. AF's service is, at best, on par with United's. NS
74 kgaiflyer : In the present argument, I'll have to agree that AF's 380 has all over UA's 757. I say that as both an AF flyer and a UA flyer. Shoulder to shoulder
75 Post contains images gigneil : I'm pretty sure people would think that about a Ryanair A380. Its an A380. NS
76 Post contains images laca773 : AADC10, can you explain to me what the deal is with this "ghetto bird"? UA has served LAX-FRA nonstop several years ago , albeit, for a very short ti
77 washingtonian : Something nobody commented on: Will IAD-AMS remain a 757 for the foreseeable ftuure, even if ORD-AMS shifts to a 2-class 767?
78 IADLHR : I was just getting ready to comment on this as KL, for part of the summer, is going to increase AMS-IAD from 7X weekly to, I think, 10X weekly. Does
79 STT757 : According to this Summer's schedules it remains a 757.
80 Tdan : Why does everyone assume IAD-CDG is a dog for UA? Two daily 757s was an INCREASE in capacity when it was implemented a year ago. Why would they have i
81 TOMMY767 : But it was an overall drawback because of the frequent diversions. The 763 is better suited for this route.
82 Tdan : Agreed, which likely impacted profitability and is why the 763 is back on the route. However, this does not make the route a dog. It's a dog if it co
83 TOMMY767 : There is absolutely no evidence that IAD-CDG bleeds cash for UA. That's about as same as any other BS a.net rumor such as the UA DEN hub will be elim
84 IADLHR : That is really interesting. I am sorry I missed the article when it first appeared. I guess too may things going on in too mnany places.However, I ha
85 Roseflyer : I am speculating, but a few reasons could be, wind conditions aren't as strong as they were in December when 30-40% of flights were diverting. Loads
86 CODC10 : Winds, mostly. Plus, the 757s had a row of seats removed for the E+ mods. 6 seats + 6 pax + bags is a solid weight savings.
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