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Does FR Count No Show Pax As Transported Ones?  
User currently offline777 From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 514 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2872 times:

Interesting news today on the Italian newspaper: ENAC (the Italian Civil Aviation Authority) announced that the statement made by Ryanair some weeks ago regarding the fact that they are the carrier n.1 in Italy with 28M of transported passengers in 2011 (against AZ that stopped at 25M) is not true as the official number is 6M less, around 22M.

Link in Italian
http://www.ilmessaggero.it/articolo....hp?id=187707&sez=HOME_ECONOMIA

Now the only explanation I can imagine to understand such a big difference in the numbers (knowing that ENAC formally collects on regular basis the data regarding the passengers from the Italian airports) is that FR includes also the No Show passengers in the count of the transported ones.

If so, what to say… Is that fair? Is that legal?

Comments and thoughts on this matter are appreciated.

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinejoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3154 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2799 times:

Quoting 777 (Thread starter):
Now the only explanation I can imagine to understand such a big difference in the numbers (knowing that ENAC formally collects on regular basis the data regarding the passengers from the Italian airports) is that FR includes also the No Show passengers in the count of the transported ones.

Ryanair counts and publishes the number of seats sold. It's written below every press release regarding passenger numbers, for example: http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-s-july-traffic-grows-6-percent

Quoting 777 (Thread starter):
If so, what to say… Is that fair? Is that legal?

Is it fair? Well, as FR doesn't refund fees, it's fair from a financial point of view: these seats have been sold for money, which is on FR's bank account. It's not uncommon too: easyJet does the same.

Whether it's legal? Well, looking at how obvious it's stated below the presented passenger numbers, I assume it's legal.


User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2785 times:

Quoting 777 (Thread starter):
Now the only explanation I can imagine to understand such a big difference in the numbers (knowing that ENAC formally collects on regular basis the data regarding the passengers from the Italian airports) is that FR includes also the No Show passengers in the count of the transported ones.

Is that likely to account for a 6M pax variation? That's implying that 21% of all pax who buy a ticket don't turn up and use it - I find that REALLY difficult to believe.



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,B463,(..50 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offline777 From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 514 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

@Joost: I think it's unfair if you pretend to say that you carried more pax than another carrier that doesn't count the no shows. Simply as that!

@GTC64: I have the same doubt... But ENAC, as all the other Aviation authorities, asks on regular basis the airports to communicate the monthly passengers (incoming and outcoming) and in that sense I tend to trust the airport data more than the ones provided by FR.


User currently offlinePezySPU From Croatia, joined Dec 2011, 283 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2515 times:

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 2):
That's implying that 21% of all pax who buy a ticket don't turn up and use it - I find that REALLY difficult to believe.

Yes, that number stands at 10% on average. There's probably something else in those 6 million.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11572 posts, RR: 61
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2279 times:

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 4):
Yes, that number stands at 10% on average.

But I can see that average would change if you have many passengers paying very little for flights, losing or not using a cheap FR ticket is like losing a bus ticket. I was meant to go to DUB with my girlfriend a while ago, but she lost her passport and couldn't go. She was mortified at how she'd wasted my money, but when I told her the flights were £1 each way and that I really wasn't bothered she was much easier about it.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineplanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 815 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

The airport figures will be most accurate as the airports charge the airlines per passenger departed.

The 21% no show rate is likely bookings that have fallen off plus day of departure no shows. As stated, it is likely due to the affordability of the tickets.

As has been said, comparing passengers departed with booked passengers is not a fair comparison.


User currently offlinekalvado From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 485 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2142 times:

Quoting planesailing (Reply 6):
The airport figures will be most accurate as the airports charge the airlines per passenger departed.

How airport numbers are collected? with online check-in and common security checkpoint, numbers at the gate are the only reasonable ones. However it is airline who boards pax, not airport, so all they can do is to get airline numbers. With that, could that little discrepancy be another source of FR revenue?


User currently offline777 From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 514 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1847 times:

Quoting PezySPU (Reply 4):
Yes, that number stands at 10% on average. There's probably something else in those 6 million.

Crew must go may be another example. I would not be surprised to find out that they include also this kind of "passengers" in the total count.

BTW, at the following link there is the press release by ENAC with the top 5 carriers in Italy in 2011:
http://195.103.234.163/Applicazioni/...unicati/comunicato.asp?selpa1=1657

[Edited 2012-03-28 04:54:11]

User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1825 times:

So as per ENAC the following are top5 in Italy (2011)

1. Alitalia Gruppo CAI con 25.896.582 passeggeri trasportati
2. Ryanair con 22.114.392
3. Easyjet con 10.526.297
4. Deutsche Lufthansa con 6.447.057
5. Meridiana con 4.323.926.


User currently offline777 From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 514 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1760 times:

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 9):

So as per ENAC the following are top5 in Italy (2011)

1. Alitalia Gruppo CAI con 25.896.582 passeggeri trasportati
2. Ryanair con 22.114.392
3. Easyjet con 10.526.297
4. Deutsche Lufthansa con 6.447.057
5. Meridiana con 4.323.926.

Interesting to note that the Lufthansa result takes also into account the already buried Lufthansa Italia


User currently offline777 From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 514 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1403 times:

Press release with official excuses by Ryanair....

http://www.ilmessaggero.it/articolo....hp?id=188137&sez=HOME_ECONOMIA

The content of this press release is, by the way, reflects the pure FR style: "we do confirm that the responsible of this error will be tortured" - says Stephen McNamara, head of Communications.....


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