FingerLakerAv8r From United States of America, joined May 2011, 259 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 25040 times:
Is it possible the pilot may be diabetic? When your blood sugar gets low you can exhibit erradic behavior that can be interpreted as intoxication.
rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2851 posts, RR: 7 Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24904 times:
Just heard this on the radio. Tackling and arrest are not appropriate responses to a medical emergency. It sounds as if the pilot was having a stroke or seizure of some sort. (In a seizure, restraint can be even more damaging.)
A complete and accurate story should be forthcoming. The linked article, and the radio report I heard, were not complete, and partially contradictory. (Off-duty pilot flying? or just involved in restraining? Arrested, not arrested?)
richierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4022 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24749 times:
Cue up Leno and Letterman!!!!
Seriously, how long until we see video from somebody's phone about this incident?
BCEaglesCO757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 213 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24674 times:
Quoting FingerLakerAv8r (Reply 1): Is it possible the pilot may be diabetic? When your blood sugar gets low you can exhibit erradic behavior that can be interpreted as intoxication
Finding a doctor to pass that medical is like the average persons chances of winning the lottery.
He would have had to prove beyond a doubt that he had it in control,over a long period of time and on an ongoing basis.
tjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2296 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24647 times:
Quoting richierich (Reply 3): Seriously, how long until we see video from somebody's phone about this incident?
Listen carefully near the end of the second video- sounds like the guy filming is confronted by his seat mate after one of the FA's told passengers taking photos was unnecessary- starts to get a little heated.
[Edited 2012-03-27 12:47:39]
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2851 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24578 times:
Quoting richierich (Reply 3): Seriously, how long until we see video from somebody's phone about this incident?
It's "allegedly" on the link provided in the OP. I can't watch it.
I'm a lilttle worried about the "restrain him" order. I didn't realize FAs had law enforcement authority. Maybe they need to, but with that they require some training in legal issues and procedures.
Large men restraining someone having a seizure or breakdown. It's 1920s psychiatric medicine all over again.
BCEaglesCO757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 213 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24579 times:
Quoting richierich (Reply 3): Seriously, how long until we see video from somebody's phone about this incident?
About ten minutes ago if you were tuned into MSNBC. Looked a little bumpy.
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 3804 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24541 times:
Quoting rampart (Reply 2): Is it possible the pilot may be diabetic?
Oh, come on. Maybe he is. But don't let that excuse him from running up and down the aisle of the plane screaming, 'Say your prayers!'
Thankfully there is video of this so people can decide for themselves whether this is 'diabetes' at work.
rl757pvd From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24436 times:
As long as there is the occasional story like this, I dont think we have to worry about single-pilot operations any time soon...
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
FingerLakerAv8r From United States of America, joined May 2011, 259 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24346 times:
Quoting rl757pvd (Reply 9): As long as there is the occasional story like this, I dont think we have to worry about single-pilot operations any time soon...
BCEaglesCO757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 213 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24343 times:
Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 8): But don't let that excuse him from running up and down the aisle of the plane screaming, 'Say your prayers!'
Do we know that he is diabetic ?
People who have diabetic seizures act in different ways. Alot of times slurred speeech is one of the signs. Most have no reccollection of what they say or do. It can can easily be mistaken for being outright drunk. I've seen it myself.
type-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4343 posts, RR: 21 Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24347 times:
If you have diabetes the best you can get is a third class medical certificate if you use insulin. And that takes quite some doing.
Your local FAA medical examiner can't grant the certificate OKC has to grant it after carefully reviewing your particular case each and every time you are up for renewal.
So based on that since most ATP licenses require a First Class medical, I think he would be out.
It could be that perhaps he had a mini stroke or similar or some kind of neurological event that caused this situation.
And on no! It was a flight 191!!!
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
BCEaglesCO757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 213 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24240 times:
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 16811 posts, RR: 57 Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 24011 times:
Quoting BCEaglesCO757 (Reply 4): Finding a doctor to pass that medical is like the average persons chances of winning the lottery.
He would have had to prove beyond a doubt that he had it in control,over a long period of time and on an ongoing basis.
Unlikely even then. In fact, it would be incompetent of the doctor to approve a type-I diabetic to fly an airliner.
N757ST From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 282 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 23965 times:
Pilots that are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes that does not require insulin or other medications are able to hold a class 1 medical.
bcoz From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 358 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 23964 times:
At the risk of speculating here... It could be possible that the guy simply cracked up. Technically, that would be a medical issue... And I'm sure B6 doesn't want to put out a statement that says, "Our aircraft diverted because our captain cracked up."
IADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 668 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 23697 times:
Reading the articles and seeing it on the news, he started to act bizzare after he left the restroom. From what I have seen, and know, of diabetes, which isnt a great deal, I dont think a diabetic siuation gets that bad so quickly. However, I stand corrected.
I hate to say it, but it makes me wonder if some kind of drug reaction, maybe even street drugs, is involved. It just seems that everything changed so suddenly.
Could it be another bipolar situation? We may never know the answer to this one.
m11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1205 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 23692 times:
Quoting rampart (Reply 6): I'm a lilttle worried about the "restrain him" order. I didn't realize FAs had law enforcement authority. Maybe they need to, but with that they require some training in legal issues and procedures.
It's great that passengers have proven time and time again that they are always willing to come to the help of a cabin crew member during an emergency. However, it is quite troubling that the automatic response to any on board disturbance these days is, "Tackle him/her!" The flight attendant who made that request over the PA system may have just freaked out and not known what to do... It is too soon to tell what happened but it seems like requiring four passengers to tackle a crew member having a medical emergency was not only unnecessary but wreck less.
In the recent AA incident where a mentally ill F/A had a mental breakdown the remaining F/As and an off duty pilot did try to verbally calm her down before resorting to physical force. It doesn't seem like any attempt was made here to establish what was actually happening before resorting to physical force.
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
tp1040 From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 157 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 23300 times:
Even if he was diabetic, he was still a threat.
It used to be passengers acting nuts, lately it has been the crew.
sccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5088 posts, RR: 28 Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 23264 times:
Folks, let's all give the guy a break. Something profoundly disruptive has clearly happened in his life, most likely derailed a presumably successful and promising career with a good company.
The flight is safe; I just hope the affected Captain can get treatment and manage a full recovery.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
cbphoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1506 posts, RR: 6 Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 23141 times:
Quoting sccutler (Reply 22): Folks, let's all give the guy a break. Something profoundly disruptive has clearly happened in his life, most likely derailed a presumably successful and promising career with a good company.
The flight is safe; I just hope the affected Captain can get treatment and manage a full recovery
This might come as a shock to many on this board, but pilots and flight attendants ARE human after all! We are not Gods, like some passengers think we are, and we are susceptible to lots of things in life, just like everyone else is. Who knows, he might have just lost a kid, or was handed divorce papers, or could have a serious, undiagnosed medical issue. The fact is, the flight landed safely and the system worked. Until we know more about the situation, give they guy a break!
type-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4343 posts, RR: 21 Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 23139 times:
Quoting N757ST (Reply 16): Pilots that are diagnosed with type 2 diabetes that does not require insulin or other medications are able to hold a class 1 medical.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
25 tp1040: He doesn't need a break, he needs to never be allowed to fly on a plane. He might recover to be functioning, but he will never make a full recovery.
26 richierich: Amen to that. But I think it is fair to wonder what is making people 'snap' lately - is it the economy? The threat of terrorism? External domestic (a
27 rampart: For the record, that wasn't my quote. Glitch in the program. In my post, I suggested simply a medical condition, undefined seizure. Pretty obvious so
28 zippyjet: Time for a way out whacky theory. I don't believe in coincidences. But doesn't it seem hinky that recently a poor flight attendant kirked out while in
29 IADLHR: Having once worked in crisis intervention for a long time, often times, as the saying goes, it is the STRAW that breaks the camels back. It isnt, rea
30 tp1040: I have more compassion and humanity for the people that had to endure this event. Give the guy a break, seriously? What kind of break? Let him fly ag
31 JHCRJ700: Read the book Squawk 7700 and believing that this pilot simply had a break down makes a lot of sense.
32 IADLHR: Come to think of it, isnt this the second public breakdown of a B6 crew member? The B6 FA that opened the emergency slide and went down the slide as p
33 islandrob: Sorry, folks. If ANYONE is acting bizarre or irrational in the vicinity the cockpit, he/she needs to be restrained immediately. -ir
34 Mortyman: I did'nt think people with Diabetes Mellitus 1 could get a pilot licence ? Type 1 is treated with insulin injections and this kind of behaviour is po
35 flashmeister: Never allowed to fly as a *passenger* again? That's far too harsh.
36 catiii: Agreed. It's easy to anonymously sit behind your computer and crack jokes about exposure to "blue juice," or make blanket statements about what shoul
37 F9Animal: It is obvious that a medical situation happened here. First, he was a captain. He did not get to captain by exhibiting these behaviors in his career.
38 irelayer: Hey! Same sig! And yes, for the record I agree. For a Captain to just snap like that...well...what if he snaps in the cockpit? -IR
39 db373: Are we really making the argument here that this man who was allegedly banging on the cockpit door and screaming about terrorists in the middle of th
40 seat1a: What I find curious is the flight number ... 191. I'm not trying to be flip or disrespectful, but here's another flight 191 incident. American 191, De
41 TWASkyliner747: What I am still trying to comprehend is the fact that he broke the zip-tie handcuffs. Another interesting fact that I see from the news pictures is th
42 catiii: JetBlue's statement: March 27, 2012 Flight 191 Update: 3:25 p.m. ET A ferry flight is due to arrive to Amarillo at 3:11 p.m. local time to fly custome
43 jkudall: As someone who works in EMS myself, the chair he is on in the picture is not a wheel chair, it is a stair chair/evacuation chair which are carried on
44 ltbewr: Due to the ADA, the public may not really know the medical condition that probably caused this situation. I would give thanks to the sound thinking of
45 TWASkyliner747: Just inferring, I'm not judging anyone. I do have some experience in the EMS field and what I was getting at with the whole no IV thing was that this
46 flymia: Seems like the 100% best move to me. What should the FA do? Unless there is an Air Marshall is on the aircraft the Captain has the "law enforcement"
47 TWASkyliner747: Totally agree! He/She did a great job. Also, one of the passengers described the Captain as looking like he was having a panic attack.
48 beechnut: In Canada, a pilot with insulin-dependent diabetes (type 1 or 2) can hold a class 1 medical if certain control criteria are met; the certificate is r
49 PHX787: oh jeez, guys -_- haha Seriously though, this is scary stuff, when the pilot loses his mind....The CAPTAIN of the airplane... I hope he's ok, and get
50 DocLightning: That is very different. Type 2 diabetics do not get hypoglycemic. Type 1's do, and when that happens they can have sudden alterations in mental statu
51 flymia: Agreed and thankfully the worst happened OUTSIDE of the cockpit. Great move by the F/O and honestly by the captain himself for at least leaving the c
52 m11stephen: In my defense I did not read the part about the captain screaming terrorstic statements. Also, an F/A did try and calm him down and quietly walk him
53 rampart: The people "enduring" the event were happily videoing the whole thing with their (not supposed to use) smartphones. Probably need restraint as well.
54 m11stephen: Pilots, F/As, passengers, off duty law enforcement officers, etc. all have the right to use physical or deadly force against an attacker if the safet
55 Braniff747SP: According to this article, http://jalopnik.com/5896951/pilot-wh...was-one-of-jetblues-oldest-pilots, the name of the pilot is Clayton Osbon, and is on
56 PHX787: Apparently, he was forced OUT of the cockpit, and into the lav or something
57 varsity: The aircraft is CN 2141 Tail # N581JB "100% Blue"
58 SXDFC: Aviation Herald has it as N796JB, a brand new A320 that's only a few weeks old.. http://avherald.com/h?article=44d15583&opt=0
59 ltbewr: The local news here in NY City has reported that the pilot in question has rented a room in a house for 10 years not far from JFK, got along with his
60 Viscount724: The B6 incident sounds quite a bit like the AC incident in November 2008, where the first officer on an AC 763 en route from YYZ to LHR had to be forc
61 fxramper: Maybe he found out his contract isn't getting renewed and he flipped out. Either way, glad the sky posse tuned him up. I would have done the same thin
62 ASFlyer: THANK YOU! You are spot on! I think the cabin crew deserve kudos for their handling of the situation. Anyone here that thinks they didn't handle the
63 m11stephen: It's simply amazing how well the cabin crew and co-pilot coordinated with each other to get the captain out of the flight deck and then get the off d
64 EY460: First of all I have I am very symphatetic towards the Captain. He had a sort of break-down and now his life is compromised. Then I believe that the si
65 geezer: Hold it just a minute...........Yes, B6 did have a male FA pop a slide, and went down the slide with a beer in hand; so what ? This was CLEARLY a tot
66 Goldenshield: Well, this explains to me why, when I flew through AMA yesterday, I swore that I had seen a JetBlue tail.
67 soon7x7: If I'm not mistaken, didn't the FAA recently adopt some "Anti - Depressant" drugs as non disqualifying drugs consumed by Flight Crew members? If so th
68 tonystan: How very sad for the poor man. I think the FO did the right thing whatever he/she did to get him out of the Flight deck, unfortunatly it would appear
70 PanHAM: The pilot should have called in sick that morning. But then again, one always is wiser after leaving City Hall. The video is posted in German on line
71 penguins: I hope he is okay. It is pretty horrible to go through that, I assume. Do you think he will be flying again soon with B6? For some reason, I doubt it.
72 Dano1977: I do hope the pilot concerned gets all the help he needs be it medical or other. Wasn't there a case a few years ago, when a pilot started acting stra
73 Highflier92660: This morning's Good Morning America on ABC announced that several of the passengers were flying to Las Vegas to attend a security conference. That cer
74 softrally: Aargh!! The school blocked that link... for the reason "Portal sites not allowed"
75 SeeTheWorld: One report is saying that this senior pilot sold diet pills on the side ... I wouldn't be surprised if that might be a part of the explanation ...
76 PanHAM: on the side, what amazes me is that the full name of the pilot is revealed to the public. Aren't there laws to protect the privacy of people? One can
77 rfields5421: Not really. Since he is in FBI custody, a public charge has to be made to hold him.
78 rampart: This is why I don't know the full story. I refuse to view that video in full. I saw the 15 second clip on the news, I think when they had him restrai
79 fxramper: ...something in the water up in the air ? FoxNews is reporting a pax on CLT-RSW freaked out on cabin crew and attacked them before being wrestled to t
80 qualitydr: I agree on the astuteness of the First Officer's actions. While it might be "lucky" that an off-duty pilot was available, I feel the pilot flying wou
81 werdywerd: You can listen to the ATC Audio here: http://youtu.be/u8kZK2s6GJw [Edited 2012-03-28 08:21:34][Edited 2012-03-28 08:21:55]
82 ROSWELL41: The off duty pilot would need not to be qualified in type. The only requirement most pilots would demand is that the person is a pilot for a US FAR 1
83 qualitydr: I beg to differ: see http://clinical.diabetesjournals.org/content/24/3/115.full . I'm threshhold Type 2 diabetic, controlled through diet, exercise a
84 milesrich: And remember, many people want the pilots to be ARMED. Prison guards are not armed and there is a reason for that. Guns do NOT belong on airplanes.
85 lnglive1011yyz: We must take the "eye-witness accounts" with a little bit of caution - remember, 4 people can see the same thing happen and 4 stories will be totally
86 ROSWELL41: Yes, training is provided both to cockpit and cabin crews on how to handle incapacitated crewmembers.
87 tp1040: I am glad things have changed in the cockpit where the FO had the guts take action. Basically, the FO determined that the Captain was incapable of bei
88 fsnuffer: Is there a concept of mutiny in aviation. This case is a clears case of the FO assuming command but what if it was not such a clear cut case?
89 F9Animal: It saddens me how quick people jump to calling this man names, and joking about his mental health. He obviously has a great background, and didn't get
90 m11stephen: Training is provided on how to handle something like a pilot going into cardiac arrest... Not a pilot becoming physically aggressive.
91 type-rated: The latest news reports are saying that this could be a case of PTSD. As the airlines tighten the rules and expect more and more out of cabin crews th
92 islandrob: Could have been life ending for everyone on board. We have the decisive, quick-acting crew members and passengers to thank for preventing that. -ir
93 ROSWELL41: True, crewmembers are trained on how to handle that as well as other forms of incapacitation. At least where I work, we are trained in multiple types
94 ROSWELL41: +1. Hopefully he recovers and if this can be medically explained and remedied to the satisfaction of the FAA Aeromedical Division, hopefully he can f
95 BWI5OH: As I've been reading the threads, many of you have brought up some good thoughts and theories. I just want to shed some light on some things that 20+
96 catiii: Not necessarily. The Navy has in place protocols for relieving commanding officers. For cabin crews sure, but he was flight-deck crew. And truthfully
97 cbphoto: Pretty sure the OP was talking about crews in the cabin as a general term. Not specifically flight attendants or pilots! Simple really, you train for
98 islandrob: Per breaking CNN, Pilot Osbon now charged with interfering with a flight crew - a federal offense. -ir Edited to add: FO's statement regarding Osbon's
99 bobbypsp: From CNN, link to FBI report. Amazing reading http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/im...plaint.and.affidavit.pdf?hpt=hp_c2
100 PROSA: It seems WAY premature to charge Osbon with a serious felony before the medical testing is complete. If it turns out that his meltdown was caused by a
101 Polot: Just because he maybe mentally ill or have some other illness does not mean he shouldn't be charged. If it turns out that he was mentally handicapped
102 PROSA: I don't agree. Charging him at this point serves no useful purpose unless it's the only way to ensure he stays hospitalized for testing.
103 flashmeister: Scary reading. Definitely a few fries short of a happy meal. If he started acting goofy on climbout, and the crap really hit the fan about a half hour
104 AirCalSNA: Completely bizarre behavior disclosed on the FBI affidavit. Seems like it might have been appropriate to have declared an emergency as soon as the pil
105 IFlyTWA: What is it about the flight # 191? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_191[Edited 2012-03-28 15:57:36]
107 nwafflyer: I guess I am totally stupid, but I would really like to know what happened to Jet Blue 191
108 catiii: That would be my guess too. There must be a legal rationale that involved being able to keep him hospitalized. Additionally, would B6 be bringing the
109 Jeff G: Thanks very much for writing this. It provides some much needed perspective.
110 m11stephen: Really? I'm shocked... Your airline must go way above what is required by the TSA. Incapacitiation generally means something like a crewmember passin
111 wjcandee: FWIW, it does seem odd that the US Attorney has decided to charge him now unless: (1) as noted above, they for some reason want to keep him in custody
112 tonystan: No, they have the FO to thank for that for getting him out of the cockpit. Once he was locked out there was no way he was going to get back in so the
113 rfields5421: The airline cannot bring criminal charges against an individual, only the government. A charge could be based upon information provided by a corporat
114 SeeTheWorld: Three hours before this thing came to a head ... It must have been a long three hours for that FO ... that is really something ...
115 casinterest: After reading this, I think a felony is the least of his concerns. I really hope that this man gets the medical and or psychological help that he nee
117 islandrob: Uh, yes. I was including the FO when I used the term 'crew members'. And, to me, it appears that the captain, by all accounts a large and very robust
118 PHX787: Here's what's confusing me: Obviously, the captain was distraught, not in his wits....and he was causing a sizable commotion and could've easily endan
119 Silver1SWA: You're damned if you do, damned if you don't when involved in something like this. To those accusing the passengers and crew of overreacting and cross
120 tp1040: These days, US law enforcement has a tendency to automatically charge people*, then they will let the courts determine the outcome. He will get treat
121 rampart: Yeah, what if. Good work to the crew on this event, but I sometimes can't believe the crass assumptions made by posters here.
122 maxpower1954: I was on a Tokyo layover in February 1982 when I turned on the TV and watched the aftermath of a JAL DC-8 accident that occurred when the captain deli
123 mayor: Don't know if this has been thought of, but what is the deal with different flight 191s, that seem to be messed up.......the AA crash in Chicago, DL's
124 maxpower1954: And don't forget Prinair 191, which crashed at Ponce, PR in 1972 with five fatalties. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinair_Flight_191
125 F9Animal: Say what you need to say about my feelings.... But I feel bad for him. Whatever happened, I just hope he comes out okay. He is human, and humans are f
126 HAWK21M: Sad If true........as he will find it very difficult to be permitted to fly a commercial Airliner again.
127 ltbewr: As to the FO and what he did, I am quite sure this is covered by general training and common sense rules to make sure no one is at the controls who ca
128 PROSA: So let's say you're a captain with a major airline. You're unsure of your ability to fly due to psychological issues - for example depression, excessi
129 rfields5421: PROSA - Those are medical issues, and as a pilot you are obligated to inform your airline and the FAA of any changes in your medical condition. At the
130 F9Animal: That is a great question! And yes, you can. A doctor can fill out FMLA paperwork, so a person can get federal protection of a job while being out for
131 HAWK21M: It exists in Flt ops & Maintenance....If a professional feels not 100% to undertake a particular task....He could report the same & back off.
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 174 posts, 
From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 2776 posts, 
From France, joined Sep 2006, 700 posts, 
From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 668 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
