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UA Narrow Body Order...When?  
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 10745 times:

There was some time ago speculation that UA were looking at a future NB order but this all seems to have gone quiet. I know that the merged company must have more than enough on its plate anyway but I was wondering if we will see that order in 2012?

Any thoughts?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1811 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 10676 times:

Maybe they wait for Boeing to announce the new 757..  

User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5278 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10425 times:

They have some time to decide what to do. Their A320/A319 and 757 fleets are aging, but not as old as (for example) DL's oldest A320s. Only the few 737-500s need immediate replacement. They are already taking delivery of plenty of 737-900ERs, which can gradually replace 737-500 capacity (obviously with different NB types shifting from route to route). I expect they are evaluating the 737MAX and A32Xneo as we speak.


Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlinenycdave From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 546 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 10300 times:

Yeah -- Remember, they've got over 60 737s on order, and are taking about 5-7 more this year than they're planning to retire (getting rid of the 735's). The PMCO 737 fleet is in great shape and very young, and the PMUA ABs aren't too old just yet. For the near-term, they've got no big changes they need to make, and enough on order to provide some steady growth.

That said, they have to be looking for what to do with the 757 fleet by the end of the decade, as well as thinking about the older PMUA A320's. Like seabosdca, I'm sure they're taking a careful look at the NEO and MAX, but feel a lot less pressure to make a decision than, say, DL or AA.

I wouldn't be surprised if UA waited until 2014-15 to see some testing numbers come in, before placing an order. By that point, B might even have a clean-sheet NB to launch with deliveries starting in the early 2020's...

I think most of their "new plane" budget is going to be dedicated to WB -- they've simply got too many that they're already replacing, or are going to have to replace.


User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 10003 times:
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Keep in mind that UA is investing millions in replacing the bins on the nb Airbus aircraft as part of their fleet revamp program. Combine that with a large and relatively new 737 fleet, they are in no rush to log a new order.

UA frankly has a lot more pressing issues right now than a narrow body order (i.e. the issues merging the IT systems, training issues for customer service/gate agents).

They should be 100% focused on getting their IT issues resolved, getting new contracts negotiated with their labor groups and train, train, train on their integrated procedures.


User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2706 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8883 times:

I believe that you will hear about an order to replace around 80 of the older 757's in the very near future. Either B737-900's or A321's with I believe Boeing to be the winner.


OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineord From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8379 times:

According to this recent article, United is expected to place a large narrow-body order around April or May:

March 7, 2012
Airbus fine-tunes tactics after record order run
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/.../us-airbus-a-idUSTRE82613D20120307

"This year's mostly keenly awaited order for some 150 aircraft from United Airlines, postponed from January and expected in a month or so, is likely to contain several dozen of the older models whoever wins, market watchers say."


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8248 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5458 times:
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What areb they going to replace the 744 fleet with is a question. 777-300ER's ? 748 I's

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16793 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5453 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
What areb they going to replace the 744 fleet with is a question. 777-300ER's ? 748 I's

A350s is what they stated.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5404 times:

Quoting ord (Reply 6):
According to this recent article, United is expected to place a large narrow-body order around April or May
Quoting ord (Reply 6):
is likely to contain several dozen of the older models whoever wins, market watchers say.

Be interesting to see how the order is placed, if divided between A & B, what with Smisek coming from an all B background so as to speak.

Quoting ord (Reply 6):
777-300ER's ? 748 I's

Would love to see either of those in the fleet.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9460 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5319 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 9):

Be interesting to see how the order is placed, if divided between A & B, what with Smisek coming from an all B background so as to speak.

Smisek is a Harvard educated corporate attorney with an economics background. That's not an all B background. Before being found by Gordon Bethune in 1995, he didn't know the difference between Airbus and Boeing as he was a partner in a law firm in the oil industry. Also the board of directors is an even mix between UA and CO.

Personally I'd expect any order to be very objective if it is MAX vs NEO. The company is driven by costs and analysis nowadays. It's not a good ol boys club based on opinions. It's senior analysts (not accountants) running numbers on everything from fuel burn, maintenance costs, depreciation costs, financing charges, support services, etc to figure out what works out best. However the fact that they are currently taking delivery of new 737NGs and haven't taken delivery of an A320 since 2002 might make the 737 more likely.

[Edited 2012-03-29 10:48:22]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5067 times:

G'day

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 10):
haven't taken delivery of an A320 since 2002

Was that the last delivery of new aircraft to old United?

Kind of difficult to maintain an updated fleet that way. The new 738's coming in now for the combined CO and UA likely only cover half of what is required to update the fleet, so I see some urgency for UA placing that rumored new narrowbody order.
That is likely going to be a split as well, unless A or B are going all out to prostitute themselves - nothing unheard of  


Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9460 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5034 times:

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 11):

Kind of difficult to maintain an updated fleet that way. The new 738's coming in now for the combined CO and UA likely only cover half of what is required to update the fleet, so I see some urgency for UA placing that rumored new narrowbody order.

UA has been retiring narrowbodies and replacing them with regional jets. The E170s and CR7s essentially replaced the 737 classics as the airline downsized. CO replaced its older 737s with new 738s and 739ERs.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16793 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4947 times:

I think this pending order, rumored to be for 150 aircraft, will be a mix of existing NG 737s and 737 MAX. Probably a top off order of 30-50 737-900ERs to continue the fleet replacement of UA's domestic 757s, and 100 or so 737Max that would replace the Airbuses starting around 2017.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5438 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4933 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 4):
They should be 100% focused on getting their IT issues resolved, getting new contracts negotiated with their labor groups and train, train, train on their integrated procedures.

While true, I'd imagine that the people devoted to negotiating for new aircraft are not necessarily the same people who would be training front line staff or being hands-on with the IT stuff. Also, if they are going to need aircraft in 3-5 years, it makes sense to "get in line" now rather than wait until they are needing them on the property.

Having said that, I doubt they need a huge order - they can probably start with 50 OEO's and 50-100 NEO's (ok, granted, that's not a small order, per se) and stretch those out over the rest of the decade.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2706 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 8):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
What areb they going to replace the 744 fleet with is a question. 777-300ER's ? 748 I's

A350s is what they stated.


Rumour has it the order of 25 A350's may be on the chopping block. But nothing yet on the Heavy replacement until the narrow body order is done.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 10):
might make the 737 more likely.

This is what it sounds like. Does not sound like it will be a split order. And I do think the all Boeing fleet of CAL will win out.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
I think this pending order, rumored to be for 150 aircraft, will be a mix of existing NG 737s and 737 MAX. Probably a top off order of 30-50 737-900ERs to continue the fleet replacement of UA's domestic 757s, and 100 or so 737Max that would replace the Airbuses starting around 2017

The order will replace 80+ of the older United 757's with the 900's along with options to the MAX to start retiring the A320's



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

Quoting Heavierthanair (Reply 11):
The new 738's coming in now for the combined CO and UA likely only cover half of what is required to update the fleet, so I see some urgency for UA placing that rumored new narrowbody order.

Not all of the 738s are new. CO took delivery of 738s starting in 1998 and the 73G in 1997.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinemsp747 From United States of America, joined May 2010, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 15):
Rumour has it the order of 25 A350's may be on the chopping block

It seems to me it would make more sense to order 773's or 77X's for the long haul fleet, which could replace the 744's and would fit better with their current fleet of 772's. However, I could see UA using their down payment on the A359's and ordering A320 or A321NEO's to replace the aging 757's. They already have Airbus trained pilots for their narrowbody fleet, so it's not like it would cost them a lot of money to add them.


User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4156 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 16):
Not all of the 738s are new. CO took delivery of 738s starting in 1998 and the 73G in 1997.

Yeah, but it should be 10+ years before they need to be replaced.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlinedrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5143 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

Quoting msp747 (Reply 17):
They already have Airbus trained pilots for their narrowbody fleet, so it's not like it would cost them a lot of money to add them.

The same could be said for the 737 fleet tho...of which they have more of and existing outstanding orders.

Quoting msp747 (Reply 17):
However, I could see UA using their down payment on the A359's and ordering A320 or A321NEO's to replace the aging 757's.

Or they could not spend any money and just run the existing narrowbody order and see how much Boeing will prostitute themselves to follow up the order.



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4091 times:

There is no rumor of the A359 being chopped. They talk that plane up constantly.

NS


User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4000 times:

Quoting msp747 (Reply 17):
However, I could see UA using their down payment on the A359's and ordering A320 or A321NEO's to replace the aging 757's. They already have Airbus trained pilots for their narrowbody fleet, so it's not like it would cost them a lot of money to add them.

Doubt Airbus would allow it. They already did the same thing once before--the A359 order down payment was made (at least in part) using the deferred deliveries of the 42 A320s and A319s that UA had on their books in 2008, then mysteriously disappeared in 2009 when the A359 order was made.

Besides UA admitted that they got their A359s dirt cheap. The down side of the MOU is that they admitted outright cancellation is nearly impossible, but they have wiggle room in the delivery dates--slightly. If the terms are that strict I doubt Airbus would allow them to change it again.


User currently offlinetsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 626 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3886 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 2):
Only the few 737-500s need immediate replacement. They are already taking delivery of plenty of 737-900ERs, which can gradually replace 737-500 capacity (obviously with different NB types shifting from route to route)



The question is what will they replace the 735's with directly...with CO, the 735 was configured with 105 seats IIRC...Any of the other 737's they have are too much plane for any market they deployed 735's on....all the other 737 types they are taking delivery of are substantially larger in terms of capacity. What aircraft are they planning to use in place of the 735 as they remove the type from the fleet?


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2855 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3807 times:
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Question: how many 757's does United use for true transcon flights...ocean to ocean? It seems like a 737-9 can do most other jobs? No?

If that is the case, vs waiting for a subpar replacement then for: 14 p.s. 757's plus the 757's from Boston, DC, Philly etc
why wouldn't they just by nice new 767's (like the new ANA 767's) ginstead and then even have extra widebody capacity if needed?

Is that going cost so much more? Would there be such capacity issues?



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

Quoting tsnamm (Reply 22):
The question is what will they replace the 735's with directly...with CO, the 735 was configured with 105 seats IIRC...Any of the other 737's they have are too much plane for any market they deployed 735's on....all the other 737 types they are taking delivery of are substantially larger in terms of capacity. What aircraft are they planning to use in place of the 735 as they remove the type from the fleet?

The 739ERs coming onboard this year don't directly replace the 735 what UA will do is shift 319/73G capacity around to cover the 735s that are leaving.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
25 drerx7 : Exactly. The 735 capacity is being covered at present with E70 and CR7 equip as well. In most cases the 735 is used on routes that: 1.) To RON birds
26 cruiseshipcrew : Even though I wish it was true, I'm tired of the rumors that the A350s are getting chopped from the order book. They keep saying they are very excited
27 speedygonzales : I guess it's more wishful thinking from anti-Airbus people than a rumor.
28 gigneil : Yes. Totally not doable.
29 Post contains images ukoverlander : Rumour has it.......where? On A-net ?
30 ukoverlander : With a dual fleet of 737's and A320's and an existing established infrastructure in place for both aircraft maintenance and training of both flight an
31 windy95 : No it is actual talk and a feeling inside the company. Their will be a heavy order after the narrow-body deal is done. The A350 will be revisited dur
32 ukoverlander : Hmm, no source, no link. Effectively nothing to suggest that this is anything more than unsubstantiated conjecture on your part it would seem?
33 msp747 : Didn't several European airlines at one time have large fleets of 737's and A320s? Most if not all have all gone to single fleet types in favor of Ai
34 windy95 : When was the last time you sourced an internal rumour with a link? You must not understand what the word rumour means. And yes more times than not th
35 windy95 : With a fleet of 747's, 777's and 787's and an existing infrastructure in place or soon to be for all three aircraft including maintenance and crew tr
36 Daysleeper : Perhaps I’ve e miss-understood, but I thought the logic in his post was that they could pick the best from both Airbus and Boeing as they have exis
37 ukoverlander : Correct Daysleeper. You read the post in full and therefore completely understood the case being proposed.
38 ukoverlander : Thank you for confirming my assumption that your post is pure supposition and entirely devoid of any credible factual basis.
39 windy95 : Yes you did mis-understand. His post was that a split B737 and A320 order makes sense because we have the infrastructure in place for both. It was no
40 Post contains images ukoverlander : What are you talking about Windy ????? That is exactly what the post says!!!!!!!! Which part of "the ability to target the best aircraft to a specifi
41 flash330 : But how long are the 747s and the 777s gonna be in the fleet for? can't see what's wrong with a 737-8/ A321neo order for short haul and a 787/A350 fo
42 United1 : There is nothing wrong with operating a 787/350 mix for the widebody fleet. Every airline is constantly looking at their fleet plans and UA may feel
43 gigneil : Not one that anyone has heard but you it seems. What do you suggest fly instead?
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