Tupolev160 From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 316 posts, RR: 1 Posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9974 times:
We all know that most of the airlines use the 3-3-3 or the 3-4-3 layout on this model, with all the discomfort it brings.Yet, some other airlines, such as Transaero or Malaysia Airlines use the much more passenger-friendly 2-5-2 layout.
How did it come the 3-3-3 became much more popular over the 2-5-2 and do you know of any other airlines besides those two using a similar seating configuration in economy?
Who/what factors decide about that and is there any way for passengers to give their voice over which seating arrangement they prefer to endure on long and ultra-long haul flights? Which seating arrangement do you enjoy better? Thanks.
[Edited 2012-03-28 15:57:56]
[Edited 2012-03-28 15:58:39]
[Edited 2012-03-28 15:59:04]
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
PanAm788 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 274 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9957 times:
IFE boxes host 3 seats each. A 2-5-2 configuration requires 4 boxes, while a 3-3-3 configuration requires 3, saving weight. Also the 3-3-3 configuration avoids the horrible seat in the middle of the 2-5-2 section. There was a recent thread on this, I believe (not that this isn't a good topic).
2-5-2 is horrible for passengers who wind up in the middle seat in the 5-abreast section.
I believe another reason is that 2-5-2 requires 4 underseat control boxes for the inflight entertainment system while 3-3-3 only requires 3 (one for each 3-seat unit). 3-3-3 also reduces the number of seat types needed and makes maintenance and seat replacement easier.
3-3-3 also means a greater chance of an empty seat next to you if the flight isn't full compared to 2-5-2.
Tupolev160 From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 316 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9881 times:
I looked for a similar topic before posting but didn't found it. Why would the middle seat in the 2-5-2 be more uncomfortable than the windows seats on 3-3-3. Not everybody loves windows and you would still have to cross two people to get to the corridor. Just that here there would only be 1 line of people that would need to cross two guys, instead of 2 as on 3-3-3. Just try to exit from A or I seats during the meal in a 777. Im really irritated with the 3-3-3 and especially 3-4-3 arrangement while - i might be the only one on this - i never saw the point of introducing IFE into aviation. I purely hate it and can't understand why can't we live even few hours without electronics and entertainment, is like being dependent on a psychoactive drug.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
kmot From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 38 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9752 times:
When I worked at UA as a Flight Attendant, I loved the 2-5-2 layout. Unless the flight is completely full, the center seat was left empty. In addition, it better allowed families of 4 to sit together. The other plus was that more people were only one seat away from an aisle.
DualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9617 times:
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 7): I think the same way, why would it be difficult to pass a cable under the carpet or through the floor.
Remember it's an airplane, not your living room. The certification for the IFE only allows for it to be installed a certain way. To deviate from that requires money for a new certification. It's probably not worth it.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21483 posts, RR: 24 Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9566 times:
Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 9): Quoting kmot (Reply 6):
The other plus was that more people were only one seat away from an aisle.
Unless you have more aisles, how can you have more seat one away from an aisle?
With 2-5-2, 8 of the 9 seats are no more than one seat from an aisle (all seats except the middle seat in the 5-abreast section). With 3-3-3 only 7 of the 9 seats are no more than one seat from an aisle (all seats except the 2 window seats).
The difference is that many passenges prefer window seats, thus don't mind being 2 seats from the aisle in exchange for having the window seat. However, nobody in their right mind would voluntarily select the middle seat in the 5-abreast section, but with today's high load factors many passengers will wind up in one of those seats if they check in late. With 3-3-3 the situation never arises.
If there were benefits to the carriers from 2-5-2, there would be more than the current very few with 2-5-2 on 777s. DL was 2-5-2 originally on their 772ERs but changed to 3-3-3. Isn't UA also changing the PMUA 777s from 2-5-2 to 3-3-3 to match the PMCO configuration?
As a sidenote, there were and may still be a few 777s with 3-4-2 seating like the original 9-abreast layout on early 747s (before they changed to 10-abreast 3-4-3 in the mid to late 1970s). Egyptair 772s were delivered with 3-4-2 and presumably still are. I think their 77Ws are 3-3-3.
Many MD-11s were also 3-4-2 (or 2-4-3). KLM's were 2-4-3 originally but when they updated the cabins and installed PTVs in Y class 3 or 4 years ago, the original 2-4-3 seats were replaced with 3-3-3. Swissair's MD-11s were 3-4-2 with the 3-abreast unit on the left side (facing forward). With KLM's original configuration the 3-abreast unit was on the right side.
aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8357 posts, RR: 47 Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9480 times:
I've grown to like 3-3-3. The reason is simple: when the plane isn't full, I have a much better chance of getting three seats for myself. Two seats are useless for sleeping and there are few blocks of five seats that do remain empty, apart from me sitting in one.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
carpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2770 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9073 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14): As a sidenote, there were and may still be a few 777s with 3-4-2 seating like the original 9-abreast layout on early 747s (before they changed to 10-abreast 3-4-3 in the mid to late 1970s). Egyptair 772s were delivered with 3-4-2 and presumably still are. I think their 77Ws are 3-3-3.
UALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2328 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8766 times:
Quoting doug_Or (Reply 13): Because the middle seat in the middle set is 1 away from both aisles
Which is a further advantage of the 2-5-2 layout. The window person (that would be me, for instance) in a 3-3-3 layout, only has one way to get to the aisle, and if one of the two pax between him and the aisle is asleep, or elderly, or whatever, he will have to bother him anyway. However, the (unfortunate) person in the middle of the 2-5-2 layout has two possible paths to the aisles, and he can choose the most convenient at any given time.
EY460 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 233 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8746 times:
I also believe that the 2-5-2 layout has several advantages over the 3-3-3 layout. However, airline's economics are pushing for the 3-3-3 so that's the most common one. Are modern IFE system boxes still grouped in 3?
tonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1174 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8511 times:
Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 3): Why would the middle seat in the 2-5-2 be more uncomfortable than the windows seats on 3-3-3. Not everybody loves windows and you would still have to cross two people to get to the corridor.
Research has shown that a Window seat is far more preferable then a middle seat. A middle seat with no personal space that requires you to disturb not just one but two people will always lose out to the same disturbance but with the ability to enjoy the views outside or rest your head up against the wall. Plus Windows are popular with many people requesting them at time of seat allocation so they are easier to offload regardless of how many people are seated beside it then a middle seat!
CXB77L From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 2183 posts, RR: 4 Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8385 times:
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Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 3): Why would the middle seat in the 2-5-2 be more uncomfortable than the windows seats on 3-3-3
Because a window seat in a 3-3-3 configuration at least has a window you can look out of, or, if someone doesn't like the window, they can lean against the wall. The middle seat of a 2-5-2 configuration could mean having 2 people on either side of you, without anywhere to lean even if you wanted to.
No one has mentioned yet, by far the largest global airline to install 2-5-2, and keep it is AA. I think this is due to overwhelming input from AAdvantage members, like myself. I have started and contributed to threads like this numerous times. However, most of my logic has already been explained here. long live the 2-5-2!