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MAYDAY: SK Linate Accident 08/10/01 Now On Youtube  
User currently onlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3893 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 19251 times:

MAYDAY: SAS Linate accident now on youtube

Part 1 - 5


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDJs-Rpp4f8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUQi84hDyTY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NgiFY9no9I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO3iq5p4zVo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtGMp5-K5DU

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKHI747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12690 times:

Thanks for sharing.

What a well made documentary and it explained incredibly well how this tragedy unfolded.

Simply shocking the systems at the airport but as is the case in all these aircraft accidents,it is never 1 reason solely responsible for it - it is a chain of very unfortunate and unlikely events that all contribute to the fate. Just imagine in this case - it took all the following to fall into place all at the same time

1, Fog
2, Tower Error
3, Illegible Marking on taxiways
4, Absence of runway intrusion alarm
5, Wrong Turn made by the Cessna crew

Remove any 1 of these and the accident would not have happened.

And even though the the subsequent delay in the reaction of the emergency staff had nothing to do with the accident but it added insult to injury and perhaps some lives could have been saved.

On a personal note,the part i found most incredible was when the Scandanavian investigator revealed that the SK pilot made one last heroic attempt to take off even after this collision and even though they spent almost 9 seconds in flight,their only remaining engine had injested just too much debris.

RIP for those who perished that day


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3070 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12391 times:

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
Remove any 1 of these and the accident would not have happened.

Yep, that's the way many accidents are. A series of chain links in which any one of them missing would have prevented the accident.

A team of my colleagues have been diligently working on Runway Safety strategies for several years now, so we can hopefully prevent stuff like this; Tenerife; Lexington; SIN at TPE; AA at KIN; AF358, etc from ever happening again. "Runway Safety" includes Runway Incursions, Runway Excursion and Runway Confusion (e.g. taking off from the wrong runway or taxiway) mitigation.


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10995 times:

I knew absolutely nothing of this accident until I watched this episode last week. This accident is very interesting in the most tragic way.

What I found to be particularly infuriating is the prison sentence handed down on the ground controller. He was a victim of the training he received. This in itself could (and should) spark a debate in the role of police in any sort of aviation-related accident.

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
What a well made documentary and it explained incredibly well how this tragedy unfolded.

I have to agree. I've seen every episode of Mayday and this has to be one of the best I've seen in the 11 seasons it has been running.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineCapEd388 From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7448 times:

I have to agree, this is a very interesting episode.

Its such a weird coincidence because about two weeks ago, I was reading about the SAS Q400 crash and I started reading about other SAS crashes and I came across the Linate disaster and I was very intrigued by it. Then a few days later I found out that Mayday was about to release an episode on it! I was like "woa, what are the odds of that" lol. Very good episode.



Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 3):
What I found to be particularly infuriating is the prison sentence handed down on the ground controller. He was a victim of the training he received. This in itself could (and should) spark a debate in the role of police in any sort of aviation-related accident.

I feel exactly the same way. There are some cases where maintenance or ATC and even pilots act in a negligent manner and deserve to be punished, but in this case, the air traffic controller, was a victim of the system. I bet that if he had brought attention to the problems at the airport, he would have been called a whistle blower and have been fired.




Every time I see this picture of the Linate crash site, i get chills. Seeing all the aircraft parts scattered all over the runway, its a very sad scene.



388 346 77W 787
User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 578 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6708 times:

Thanks for posting this. I actually got a shot of the actual aircraft at Linate in the August prior to the accident. Had the picture published on a few news sites and magazines at the time.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Thomas



Will certainly be checking this series of are crash - really interesting.



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineshufflemoomin From Denmark, joined Jun 2010, 478 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6653 times:

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):
...as when the Scandanavian investigator revealed that the SK pilot made one last heroic attempt to take off even after this collision and even though they spent almost 9 seconds in flight,their only remaining engine had injested just too much debris.

That's the part that bothered me. Why would he try to get it in the air? I thought the one situation when you should never try to fly is when you're in doubt that the aircraft is capable. I'd say colliding with an aircraft on the runway is a perfect example of when you should assume it can't. If he'd tried to get back on the ground and slow down, maybe more lives would have been saved if they'd still collided with the hanger. I'm not a pilot but I wouldn't categorise still trying to fly in that situation as 'heroic'.


User currently offlineYellowstone From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3071 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6270 times:

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 6):
That's the part that bothered me. Why would he try to get it in the air? I thought the one situation when you should never try to fly is when you're in doubt that the aircraft is capable.

They were past V1 (actually, they were past Vr as well) before they struck the Cessna. At that point, there's not enough runway left to stop. Once the V1 callout is made, you're either taking off or going off the end of the runway.



Hydrogen is an odorless, colorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people.
User currently onlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3893 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5854 times:

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 6):
slow down, maybe more lives would have been saved if they'd still collided with the hanger. I'm not a pilot but I wouldn't categorise still trying to fly in that situation as 'heroic'.

Landinggear was torn off i beleave, and so slowing it nicly down on the runway would not have been possible. At that speed it would have most likely have caught fire and possibly exploded anyway.

and:

Quoting Yellowstone (Reply 7):
They were past V1 (actually, they were past Vr as well) before they struck the Cessna. At that point, there's not enough runway left to stop. Once the V1 callout is made, you're either taking off or going off the end of the runway.


User currently offlineEY460 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 268 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5712 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 3):
What I found to be particularly infuriating is the prison sentence handed down on the ground controller. He was a victim of the training he received. This in itself could (and should) spark a debate in the role of police in any sort of aviation-related accident.

The controller was only one of the persons sentenced. Several others were sentenced including the head of Italy's Traffic Control agency amd its number two and the Linate airport director.

I don't know if you noticed that the luggage building hit by the plane was right next to the terminal building. If the aircraft was few hundred meters more to the right it the accident could have been much worse.


User currently offlineAquila3 From Italy, joined Nov 2010, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5525 times:

Quoting KHI747 (Reply 1):



Very sad remembering for us.
I have too many thoughts coming about this accident. I might try to comment further later.
For the moment I would just add to the above, as correctly noted on the clip,

4a) INOP GROUND RADAR AT LIN

That news was very early released at the time on our media, and was proposed as one of the main causes, at least one not related to fate but to some form of human action (or non-action in this case).

One theory, supported from clip as well, was that the old radar was dismantled and the new one was there , but never installed and still seating in the boxes. This seems was going on from months. It is incredible, but that is the way the things go sometimes in this Country.



chi vola vale chi vale vola chi non vola è un vile
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

Quoting EY460 (Reply 9):
The controller was only one of the persons sentenced. Several others were sentenced including the head of Italy's Traffic Control agency amd its number two and the Linate airport director.

I don't know if you noticed that the luggage building hit by the plane was right next to the terminal building. If the aircraft was few hundred meters more to the right it the accident could have been much worse.

I realize that, but it does little to explain the Italian authority's reason for indicting an under-trained controller who was dealing with unsatisfactory infrastructure at Linate. It seems they just did a broad sweep of everyone attached to the accident regardless of their culpability and charged them anyway. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that his superiors were criminally negligent, but they even say in the episode: "the controller is considered the 119th victim". Maybe there is a spin on Italian tort I'm oblivious to that you can explain?



Flying refined.
User currently offlinesq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1633 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 18 hours ago) and read 4873 times:

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 6):
If he'd tried to get back on the ground and slow down, maybe more lives would have been saved if they'd still collided with the hanger. I'm not a pilot but I wouldn't categorise still trying to fly in that situation as 'heroic'.

Per Wikipedia,

"The MD-87 lost its right engine; the pilot, Joakim Gustafsson from Sweden, attempted to take off, reaching an altitude of approximately 12 metres (39 ft). The remaining engine lost some thrust due to debris ingestion, and the plane, having lost the starboard landing gear, came down. Gustafsson applied thrust reverser and brakes, and tried to guide the plane through its control surfaces. The maneuver was judged so skillful that it is now incorporated into SAS technical manuals. All this was, however, insufficient to halt the jet's momentum, and it crashed into a luggage hangar located near the runway's end, at a speed of approximately 251 kilometres per hour (136 kn; 156 mph)."

Maybe that's what they were referring to? I need to watch the show later today!



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8005 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 4213 times:

I think the best part of this documentary was the fact the investigators saw a lot of similarities between this accident and the Tenerife disaster in 1977: the lack of an operational ground radar and other ground sensing systems at LIN increased the chance of a ground collision in low visibility conditions.   The fact this airport had a lot of runway incursion problems earlier made you wonder if an accident was going to happen sooner or later.

User currently onlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3893 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

It's incredible that such a thing could happen at an officially run airport that you would expect to have all it's safety equipment up and running. I mean ground radar in a crate !

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