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ATR-72 Crashed Near Tyumen, Russia  
User currently offlinelh648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 21746 times:

ATR-72 flight Utair 120 from Tymen to Surgut crashed 40 km from Tyumen. 41 onboard. Casualties reported. No other info yet.


I hate Lufthansa
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelh648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 21790 times:

Contact lost 2 minutes after takeoff. The next departing aircraft reported debris on fire on the ground.

Now media reporting 43 on board.



I hate Lufthansa
User currently offlineSpacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2952 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 21638 times:

Here's hoping for survivors...


The last of the famous international playboys
User currently offlineLarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 21656 times:

Hopefully the pilots was able to make an emergency landing, but with wreckage on fire that's not very likely. I hope there will be many survivors.

/Lars



139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
User currently offlinelh648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 21587 times:

Reported 9 survivors with serious injures. 11 confirmed dead. RIP.


I hate Lufthansa
User currently offlinesyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2038 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 21247 times:
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More info here: http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2012/...ope/01reuters-russia-crash.html?hp

43 aboard, 12 survived (as of 12 AM EDT)


User currently offlinelh648 From Kazakhstan, joined Sep 2006, 579 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 21039 times:

17 survived, 16 confirmed dead.


I hate Lufthansa
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 20856 times:

More news here from CBS. Rescue workers at the scene said 12 people had survived and were being flown to a hospital by helicopter. The report said 16 bodies had been recovered so far.

Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-...crashes-in-siberia/?tag=re1.latest



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineBreninTW From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1671 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19793 times:

The BBC report.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17580917

From the footage shown there, I'm surprised anyone survived!

I have to wonder if icing wasn't a contributing factor...



I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19764 times:

RIP to all those who passed away and hope that the survivers have a speedy recovery.

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 8):
I have to wonder if icing wasn't a contributing factor...

Would not be surprised if it was, however its not time to speculate on causes just yet.


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2476 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 19669 times:

RIP to those who lost their lives and for a speedy recovery for the survivors



Quoting BreninTW (Reply 8):

Does anyone know the Reg of the aircraft involved? Or is it too early to say? From the video it looks like one of the -200's from the orange bit on the tail:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gleb Osokin - Russian AviaPhoto Team



the -500's dont seem to have this:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Senior




Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineBreninTW From Taiwan, joined Jul 2006, 1671 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19422 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 10):
Does anyone know the Reg of the aircraft involved

AvHerald reports VP-BYZ


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Senior




I'm tired of the A vs. B sniping. Neither make planes that shed wings randomly!
User currently offlinePanAm788 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19353 times:

BBC reporting that both pilots and both FAs passed away. Pilots were attempting an emergency landing. RIP  


You know nothing Jon Snow
User currently offlinebtblue From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 579 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19320 times:
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How very sad... so for this year there have been no major accidents that I am aware of - this is the first?

Rest in peace those who perished.



146/2/3 737/2/3/4/5/7/8/9 A320 1/2/18/19/21 DC9/40/50 DC10/30 A300/6 A330/2/3 A340/3/6 A380 757/2/3 747/4 767/3/4 787 77
User currently offlineflyingAY From Finland, joined Jun 2007, 706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19290 times:

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 11):
AvHerald reports VP-BYZ

This used to be Finnair's old ATR (OH-KRL).


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2476 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 19055 times:

Quoting BreninTW (Reply 11):
AvHerald reports VP-BYZ


Thanks

Quoting btblue (Reply 13):
How very sad... so for this year there have been no major accidents that I am aware of - this is the first?

As far as I know, this is the first major accident for the year, its very sad indeed.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10765 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 18916 times:

Quoting btblue (Reply 13):

How very sad... so for this year there have been no major accidents that I am aware of - this is the first?

Right, so far 2012 has been the safest year in civil aviation history.


User currently offlineteme82 From Finland, joined Mar 2007, 1571 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 18624 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting flyingAY (Reply 14):
This used to be Finnair's old ATR (OH-KRL).

Oh dear... I've flown in that plane TMP-HEL route while it was in KarAir's fleet ...

R.I.P. to all who perished in this terrible accident!



Flying high and low
User currently offlineHELFAN From Finland, joined Aug 2011, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 18382 times:

Quoting flyingAY (Reply 14):
This used to be Finnair's old ATR (OH-KRL).

Was it also one of Aero's planes? Then I must have flown with it too  Wow!


User currently offlineTreg From Estonia, joined Oct 2001, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 17653 times:

Quoting HELFAN (Reply 18):
Was it also one of Aero's planes? Then I must have flown with it too Wow!

Yes. ES-KRL.


User currently onlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1749 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 15695 times:

Very sad and RIP to all those who perished.

However, it raises the question about air safety in Russia. In the last year alone there have been three fatal accidents involving Russian aircraft:

- 2 April : UTAir ATR 72 - Tyumen
- 7 September: Yak 42 - Yaroslavl
- 20 June: RusAir TU134 - Petrozavodsk

Russia is a big country with lots of flights but the safety record is atrocious compared to other regions of the world. Is there any effective regulation of the industry?



Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319-BA), OSL-LHR (319-BA), LHR-CPH (320-BA), VXO-BMA (S20-TF), ARN-CPH (738-SK), CPH-LHR (320-BA)
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3566 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 14367 times:

Reuters is reporting 31 dead.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...russia-crash-idUSBRE83102N20120402



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineCyanide72 From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13919 times:

It's always tragic to hear whenever an aircraft goes down.

RIP to all those who perished and wishing a speedy recovery to the wounded.


User currently offlineNumero4 From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13301 times:

R.I.P. to all who died in the crash, and a special thought to the crew who lost their lives trying to land the aircraft and probably saved pax doing it.


CYQB
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2509 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11659 times:

Tragic crash. I just hope that is not related to this very recent AD:

http://wwwapps3.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur...showPdf=False&ovid=CF_CF-2012-12_0

A propeller shaft failure in flight would have disastrous results. If that is what happened to this UT Air ATR 72, that would probably mean immediate worldwide grounding of the complete PW100 fleet in the light of this AD. All ATR's All Dash-8 [except Q400], all F50's, all Embrear 120's, Do 328, ATP's etc.

Regards,
PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineyeelep From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12066 times:

As that AD covers 179 suspect prop shafts that may be in current use, I don't see how it could be the basis of the whole PW100 fleet being grounded.

User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2509 posts, RR: 12
Reply 26, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 11377 times:

While you are correct on the number, Pratt really has no idea on which airplanes these 179 Propshafts are installed . . . . believe me, it's a mess. You need to remove the prop to inspect the Propshaft flange for it's serial number.

Starting today, the AD allows for 30 days to verify the Propshaft serial number. If this crash was related to this AD, I expect the 30 day period to be withdrawn, thus in effect an immediate grounding until the Propshaft has been inspected.


Regards,
PW100

[Edited 2012-04-02 12:03:50]


Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10762 times:

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):
the safety record is atrocious compared to other regions of the world. Is there any effective regulation of the industry?

I dont want to disrespect the dead in any way, but this was not an "old Russian plane" (though it is not particularly new either) so will there now be knee jerk reactions banning ATR's or European aircraft or those with PWC engines?

Its way too early to speculate as this accident could have happened to this machine whoever operated it if there is any grounds to the AD speculation, but if not and it turns out to be an avoidable accident, surely questions should be concentrated on looking at the system in Russia rather than the mentallity of knee jerk bans just because of the aircrafts age or manufacturer as previously.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineagent99nzboi From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9704 times:

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):

The ATR is a French built aircraft, not Russian.


User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 728 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 8738 times:

We do not know what happened yet. Statistically, most accidents are due to human errors. There is no reason to speculate yet about technical problems or grounding the feel. Of course the issue covered by the AD could be the reason too, but we will see.

User currently offlineLXa332 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6894 times:

Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 12):
BBC reporting that both pilots and both FAs passed away.

AV Herald is saying the first officer survived. The captain and both FAs are dead.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 31, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6595 times:

Given it took off in cold weather, they'll have to check if the wings were properly de-iced before takeoff. If I remember correctly, an Simmons Airlines (American Airlines Express) ATR 72 crashed in 1994 because the mechanical de-icing "boots" didn't clear the ice off the wing correctly, and ATR has not completely solved the problem, since two other ATR's went down due to wing icing issues.

User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 32, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5983 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):
Given it took off in cold weather, they'll have to check if the wings were properly de-iced before takeoff

Exactly my thoughts - did it go through proper de-icing procedure given that the weather was snow showers and blowing snow at the time of the incident.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineAF1624 From France, joined Jul 2006, 664 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5886 times:

Obviously with the aircraft being an ATR (known for icing issues in the past), and with the flight taking place in very cold conditions, the odds of it being an icing problem are quite high.

Could MX be relevant on what is a relatively recent frame? Does anyone know the plane's MX history?



Cheers
User currently onlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1749 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5501 times:

Quoting agent99nzboi (Reply 28):

The ATR is a French built aircraft, not Russian.

I am aware of that. But it was operated by a Russian airline in a territory that has a pretty poor record when it comes to accidents.



Next Flights: LHR-OSL (319-BA), OSL-LHR (319-BA), LHR-CPH (320-BA), VXO-BMA (S20-TF), ARN-CPH (738-SK), CPH-LHR (320-BA)
User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2476 posts, RR: 2
Reply 35, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5548 times:

Just read this on flightglobal:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...t-engines-were-functioning-370298/

This part might be of interest though:

Quote:
One local report, quoting the deputy director of Tyumen airport, states that the ATR crew opted against de-icing before departure.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 36, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5468 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 31):
iven it took off in cold weather, they'll have to check if the wings were properly de-iced before takeoff.

Thats one area of Investigation considering the situation.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineRubberJungle From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 37, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

Excessive rolling can be a symptom of wing icing:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ke-off-crash-investigators-320577/


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6726 posts, RR: 12
Reply 38, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4955 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 35):
Just read this on flightglobal:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...t-engines-were-functioning-370298/

This part might be of interest though:

Quote:
One local report, quoting the deputy director of Tyumen airport, states that the ATR crew opted against de-icing before departure.

I'm guessing it was a short turn-around, maybe they assumed it was OK, didn't do the pre-flight walk-around ?



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineSXI899 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2008, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4607 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 38):
I'm guessing it was a short turn-around, maybe they assumed it was OK, didn't do the pre-flight walk-around ?

Based in the schedules, the aircraft had a nightstop after arriving from Surgut at UT119 around 2340L.

What with the weather conditions in the hours prior to departure, I'd almost guarantee that the wings had some form of contamination on them when the crew arrived at the aircraft that morning. Question is then what was done about it, and the only source I'm going to trust on that is the final report from MAK.

Yorden



Any Type, Any Time, Anywhere
User currently offlineaeroflop From New Zealand, joined Mar 2012, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3807 times:

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 20):
Is there any effective regulation of the industry?

Its not that the industry is not regulated well enough. It is mostly to do with the fact that there was a huge drought of prefessional pilots being trained after the collapse of the USSR. My father was a commercial pilot and he was trained for 5 years (state funded of course). He then moved onto an-2, then let-410, then an-24/26, tu-154 and then B767.

These days there are such HUGE shortages that airlines take whoever they can because there are 2 (I think) flight schools in Russia who supply professional pilots. The fact that the Air Law states that aircrew in Russian airlines must be Russian Citizens does not help either.

So pilots who graduate from flights schools are snapped up by airlines and those who speak ICAO english 4 or higher go straight onto international jets while those with lesser english knowledge end up of regional turboprops.

What i'm saying is that there is a HUGE and growing experience gap between the older "soviet" pilots and the new kids. From what I read on Pprune is that the aircraft was the only one NOT to be de-iced. The PiC maybe thought he could get away on-time and safely? Fatal mistake if that was the case.


User currently offlineairbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4273 posts, RR: 51
Reply 41, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3159 times:

Icing is 99% sure the cause of this crash, got this info from a source today working for a a/c leasing company.

Anti-ice sytems on these older ATR72's are known to be too small coverage on the wings



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlinetoltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3297 posts, RR: 4
Reply 42, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3124 times:

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 41):

Icing is 99% sure the cause of this crash, got this info from a source today working for a a/c leasing company.

Anti-ice sytems on these older ATR72's are known to be too small coverage on the wings

Care to share your source? Without it, you've got nothing more than speculation.

The anti-ice systems could cover 100% of the wing. However, it is being reported that the captain chose not to deice. So no matter how effective the systems might be, it's gotta be started off with a clean wing.

Very sad, and it may turn out to have been avoidable. Hopefully there is a lesson to be learned. Palm 90 taught US carriers an important lesson. The wing must be clean to be safe.


User currently onlineEY460 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 41):
Icing is 99% sure the cause of this crash, got this info from a source today working for a a/c leasing company.

Anti-ice sytems on these older ATR72's are known to be too small coverage on the wings

The aircraft crashed immediately after take off. How can you blame the de-icing system? If the wings were clean before take-off, there was no time for the ice to form again.


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