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Pinnacle Airlines Files For Chapter 11 (Part 1)  
User currently offlinepilotfox From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 553 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 23227 times:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pinnac...es-files-chapter-11-030000890.html

From the yahoo finance link

MEMPHIS, Tenn., April 1, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- Pinnacle Airlines Corp. (NASDAQ: PNCL - News) today announced that the Company and its subsidiaries have filed voluntary petitions for relief under Chapter 11 of the United States Bankruptcy Code in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York (the "Court"). Pinnacle intends to use the Chapter 11 process to continue implementing a comprehensive turnaround plan aimed at addressing its operational and financial challenges in a rapidly evolving regional airline industry. During this process, the company will remain focused on providing passengers with safe, reliable and timely service in collaboration with its network partners, Delta Connection, United Express and US Airways Express.

(Logo: http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20110112/CL29411LOGO )

Pinnacle expects to accomplish several key initiatives during the restructuring process to help ensure that it returns to profitability and remains viable over the long term as the regional airline industry continues to contract and transform. These initiatives include restructuring its key operating agreements with Delta Air Lines, winding down its operations with United Airlines, completing the wind-down of its Essential Air Service (EAS) flying with US Airways, achieving cost savings from its workforce, identifying additional opportunities across the organization to reduce costs, and ensuring that it has the appropriate fleet, staffing levels and network to operate profitably on an ongoing basis.

Sean Menke, President and CEO of Pinnacle, said, "We intend to use the Chapter 11 process to reset our financial and operational structure in order to position Pinnacle for viability over the long term. Quite simply, our current business model is not sustainable, as increasing operating expenses, liquidity constraints, business integration delays and difficulties associated with combining our operations have hindered our ability to maximize our growth potential. Following a lengthy review process, and with the assistance of independent financial, industry and legal advisors, our Board of Directors determined that a court-supervised restructuring is the only feasible course of action to implement our turnaround plan."

Menke continued, "We are committed to delivering safe, reliable travel throughout this process, and thank all of our employees for their continued focus on providing our mainline partners and their customers with on-time flights and superior in-flight service. Our objective is to emerge from this process as a stronger, more focused company, with a revised business model, a substantially improved cost structure and operating agreements that will position us for profitable growth in the future."

In conjunction with the filing, Pinnacle has received a commitment for secured super-priority debtor-in-possession financing ("DIP Financing") from Delta Air Lines, Inc. in the amount of $74.3 million. Following Court approval, $44.3 million will be used by Pinnacle to repay a secured promissory note held by Delta. The remaining $30 million in DIP financing, combined with cash generated by Pinnacle's ongoing operations, will be available to help ensure that Pinnacle has sufficient liquidity to meet its operational and restructuring needs.

Pinnacle has filed a series of customary motions with the Court seeking to ensure the continuation of normal operations, including requesting Court approval to continue to pay employee wages, salaries and benefits without interruption and to pay suppliers for fuel and other goods and services provided after the filing date.

Pinnacle noted that it previously filed withdrawal notices with the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) for all of the Essential Air Service (EAS) markets currently served by Colgan Air, a Pinnacle subsidiary. Pinnacle has asked the DOT to establish an accelerated process to identify replacement carriers for the EAS markets it serves, which are currently served by Saab 340 aircraft.

The remaining Saab 340 fleet that Colgan operates for United Express will be wound down over the next several months, with these operations projected to end by Aug. 1, 2012. Similarly, Colgan's Q400 aircraft operations will be wound down by Nov. 30, 2012.

[Edited 2012-04-01 20:30:41]

215 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 23183 times:

Quoting pilotfox (Thread starter):
Similarly, Colgan's Q400 aircraft operations will be wound down by Nov. 30, 2012.

Wow. So who does that UAX Q400 flying out of EWR go to?


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 23148 times:

Well this is not an April Fools joke here. What a shame. Everyone knew this was the path Pinnacle was headed over the past few months.

Too bad for what this may mean for employees and communities served by Colgan.

Interesting how DL basically is bailing them out, but they more or less have to because of the significant amount of CR2 and CR9 lift they provide.


User currently offlineDashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 23072 times:

Wasn't an April Fools joke when Menke and his cohort got a huge raise either...... Nothing like getting a raise when you're asking your employees for concessions.

User currently offlinethegoldenargosy From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 22893 times:

Quoting pilotfox (Thread starter):
The remaining Saab 340 fleet that Colgan operates for United Express will be wound down over the next several months, with these operations projected to end by Aug. 1, 2012. Similarly, Colgan's Q400 aircraft operations will be wound down by Nov. 30, 2012.

Why are they shutting Colgan down? I thought they were getting rebranded as Mesaba?


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5125 posts, RR: 28
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 22824 times:

Menke is a snake in disguise! He is really proving to be a bankruptcy king to force concessions. Could we be witnessing a modern day Lorenzo? It will take a ton of proof to sway me away from my concerns about Menke. I wish the employees the best.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlinesuisjes From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 22690 times:

I see people hating on Mesa a little less. I see the next hate rant coming on though. They are businesses if the business model is failure they change it. Pure and simple, unfortunately, the employees take the brunt of the punishment! They are all dirty! Face it!

User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5125 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 22612 times:

Oh man. Just visited a pilots forum. Menke got a $400,000.00 raise, bringing him to $650,000.00 a year? I honestly can't see any justification for that raise, especially since he has been pushing employees to take paycuts! I heard that Pinnacles headquarters was decorated with thousands of copied news articles posted everywhere this morning about Menke and his raise. This really boils my blood. This clearly shows how awful corporate America has become. I don't care to hear that this raise will help keep this talented Mr. Menke in place.... Pinnacle is in bankruptcy because of poor executive performance, and that raise sends a terrible message to employees facing pay cuts. If Menke was so talented, he would have turned the company away from bankruptcy starting the day he arrived at Pinnacle.

Yes, I am ranting. And yes, I am peeved. I can't blame the employees for being angry! No CEO of any company deserves a raise like that, especially if they are partly responsible for taking a company into bankruptcy! JALs CEO was honorable when he took a cut to help the airline. This is absolute greed.

A true good hearted leader leads by example. A poor leader pleads with workers to sacrifice pay, yet accepts a large raise, and forces employees to cut pay by going the way of bankruptcy. A true leader would accept a pay cut, and join his/her workforce in sacrifice to save the company. He joins the likes of these Wall Street cons. I don't care if he is the most talented godly CEO,,,, he does not deserve a raise. If he brings Pinnacle out of bankruptcy as a successful, profitable company.... Then and only then should he be rewarded with a raise..... And so should all of the employees of Pinnacle. I am just sick to my stomach!

[Edited 2012-04-01 22:17:42]

[Edited 2012-04-01 22:21:42]


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1872 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 22513 times:
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One thing doesnt seem to make sense: Pinnacle owes DL 44 millon via a promissory note, so DL is going to loan Pinnacle 74 million, then Pinnacle will turn around and give 44 of that 74 million back to DL to pay off the note. That's like me owing my father ten thousand dollars, then asking dad for a 15,000 loan so I can pay him back the ten thousand I owe him. Why doesn't DL just forgive the note, write off the loss, and give Pinnacle 30 million?


Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7968 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 22454 times:

Hasn't Pinnacle been under Chapter 11 before, or was that just Mesaba?


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User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 22384 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 7):
I honestly can't see any justification for that raise, especially since he has been pushing employees to take paycuts!

While I agree with you that the principle of getting a raise in the midst of requesting concessions is ludicrous, he apparently took on the CFO role in addition to the CEO role once the CFO left to work for NK. Not saying I agree with it, but the filing that talked about his raise stated that as being one of the reasons for it.


User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 22382 times:

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 8):
One thing doesnt seem to make sense: Pinnacle owes DL 44 millon via a promissory note, so DL is going to loan Pinnacle 74 million, then Pinnacle will turn around and give 44 of that 74 million back to DL to pay off the note. That's like me owing my father ten thousand dollars, then asking dad for a 15,000 loan so I can pay him back the ten thousand I owe him. Why doesn't DL just forgive the note, write off the loss, and give Pinnacle 30 million?

I'm guessing there is some sort of tax-related reason for this weird transaction...

I am not looking forward to work to tomorrow. 9E is one of the accounts I handle for my company and now we pretty much have to write of $40000.

Fun.


User currently offlinethebyte From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 22103 times:

Quote:

The remaining Saab 340 fleet that Colgan operates for United Express will be wound down over the next several months, with these operations projected to end by Aug. 1, 2012. Similarly, Colgan's Q400 aircraft operations will be wound down by Nov. 30, 2012.

So I guess this explains the E135's returning to UA's fleet? This make sense. Just pull a few parked E135's from the desert to cover the loss of the Saab's. It puts these planes, that are already costing them money, back into service.

The big surprise to me is the UA Q400 aircraft. Aren't the Q400's owned by UA? Are they going to find another carrier to fly them or are they actually leaving leaving UA's fleet? Aren't the Q400's in the process of receiving first class?


User currently offlinecrjavionics From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 21910 times:

The amount the Menke and the other one got is more that the salary of the departing CFO. Also, if and when they hire a new CFO in the future, do you think those two are just going to take a cut back to what they were originally at?

[Edited 2012-04-02 02:37:37]

User currently offlinebmibaby737 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1835 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 21788 times:

Pinnacle has filled to reject the following aircraft leases:

SAAB 340:
N237MJ, N239CJ, N242CJ, N251CJ, N309CE, N321CJ, N339CJ, N356CJ, N402XJ
N407XJ, N412XJ, N413XJ, N414XJ, N416XJ, N418XJ, N420XJ

Q400 Dash 8:

N33WQ 4033 lsf Bombardier Capital (Was only a 12month lease to support 1st Class Mods)
N351NG 4351
N354NG 4354

http://dm.epiq11.com/PinnacleAirlines


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3686 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 21730 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 1):
Wow. So who does that UAX Q400 flying out of EWR go to?

ConnectAir? Not sure if they have Q400s.

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 7):
I honestly can't see any justification for that raise

Yep. As a British banking regulator said...."You can always reward excellence and should, even mediocrity but never failure."

[Edited 2012-04-02 03:00:59]


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3686 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 21695 times:

Quoting crjavionics (Reply 13):
the departing CFO

So this is why Ted Christie jumped....can't blame him (if he wasn't at fault of course)



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinebhmdiversion From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 21258 times:

The Saabs will be going away as part of United's plan. 9L had until yesterday to improve their operational scores, or be kicked to the curb.

Menke did this to the employees, and shareholders. His whole story about how he's going to change Pinnacle for the best was all BS and in the end he only cared about himself.

Sorry to my former coworkers.


User currently offlinebhmdiversion From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20946 times:

This is a good summary from the employee FAQ website:

4. What changes are going to happen to our operations?
 We intend to complete the wind-down of EAS flying with US Airways.
 Beginning in May, we will begin the wind-down of our Colgan Q400 and Saab 340 operations with United Airlines. The Saab 340 wind-down is planned to be completed by the end of July and the Q-400 operation will come to an end in November.
 We will continue to operate all CRJ200s and the former Mesaba CRJ-900 aircrafts.
 Beginning in January 2013, we will wind down the 16 Pinnacle CRJ-900 aircrafts over a period of five months.
 PinnPro ground-handling associated with the Colgan Saab 340 operation will wind down in coordination with air service termination to specified cities.

5. How many planes will be taken out of service, and when?
 [3] Saab 340 aircraft associated with the US Airways EAS flying will conclude operations in June 2012.
 [24] Saab 340 aircraft associated with United Express service will wind down between May and July 2012.
 [31] Q400 aircraft associated with United Express service will wind down between May and November 2012.
 [16] CRJ900 aircraft associated with Delta Connection service will wind down between January and May 2013.

The Saab's, Q's, and the ATL CR9's are gone in the future.


User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12965 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20927 times:

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 7):
Oh man. Just visited a pilots forum. Menke got a $400,000.00 raise, bringing him to $650,000.00 a year? I honestly can't see any justification for that raise, especially since he has been pushing employees to take paycuts!

The ones to be angry with are the members of the board of directors, who represent the shareholders, and who approve the hiring/firing of corporate officers and set their pay.

Apparently they thought the company was better off spending the $400k and suffering the ill will of the employees vs seeing Menke go.

But the joke is on them: CH11 wipes out the shareholders, and in bankruptcy a new BOD gets elected.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 8):
One thing doesnt seem to make sense: Pinnacle owes DL 44 millon via a promissory note, so DL is going to loan Pinnacle 74 million, then Pinnacle will turn around and give 44 of that 74 million back to DL to pay off the note. That's like me owing my father ten thousand dollars, then asking dad for a 15,000 loan so I can pay him back the ten thousand I owe him. Why doesn't DL just forgive the note, write off the loss, and give Pinnacle 30 million?

Because loans between business entities have all kinds of terms and conditions attached to them that your dad's loan doesn't have, and this kind of transaction allows the T&Cs of the old loan to be replaced by the new.

Also there are totally different accounting, tax and legal implications for "forgiving" a loan (which is really writing off a bad debt) vs getting payment for one loan and issuing a new loan.

Writing off a bad loan then immediately issuing a new loan would look to regulators like you were trying to shift losses from Pinnacle to DL, so would receive a lot of scrutiny.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 20771 times:

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 18):
Beginning in January 2013, we will wind down the 16 Pinnacle CRJ-900 aircrafts over a period of five months.

I assume these will go to another DL Connection carrier since I can't imagine that DL wants to dump CRJ-900's right now.


User currently offlinecrjavionics From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 20612 times:

I wonder which 16 will go? Is it a coincidence that Pinnacle owns 16 CRJ900s (the PQs)?

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 20500 times:

Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 17):
The Saabs will be going away as part of United's plan. 9L had until yesterday to improve their operational scores, or be kicked to the curb.

What was the problem operationally? At least at Dulles, 9L seemed on par with other Express carriers (though with their short stage lengths, they were disproportionately affected by bad weather and airfield delays).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21865 posts, RR: 55
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 20276 times:

Quoting pilotfox (Thread starter):
achieving cost savings from its workforce

How the hell do you cut when the workforce is hardly making anything to begin with? What a disaster for the employees, and I feel horrible for them. They don't deserve this - this one is on management, for trying to expand faster than was sustainable.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 9):
Hasn't Pinnacle been under Chapter 11 before, or was that just Mesaba?

Mesaba filed for bankruptcy back when Northwest did, but I don't think Pinnacle has been in Chapter 11.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinebhmdiversion From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 20031 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 22):
Quoting bhmdiversion (Reply 17):
The Saabs will be going away as part of United's plan. 9L had until yesterday to improve their operational scores, or be kicked to the curb.

What was the problem operationally? At least at Dulles, 9L seemed on par with other Express carriers (though with their short stage lengths, they were disproportionately affected by bad weather and airfield delays).


United (as part of the pre-restructuring) had informed Pinnacle that they had until April 1 to improve performance, or UA would take the flying off Colgan. The performance on the Q's and Saab's was getting worse and worse due to MX and allegedly a "money losing" contract.

This might be a coincidence, but wasn't Trenary's last day March 31, so his "bonus" couldn't be taken away by the courts?


25 Cubsrule : That may or may not be true, though it's a complicated question.
26 DashTrash : We have a winner. This bankruptcy has been in the works for quite some time. The exec raises were part of it.
27 kgaiflyer : Are there still ATRs (former CO planes) in storage? If so, could they be 'Febreezed' and brought online like the 135s.
28 VictorKilo : Is the plan for UA to find another carrier to operate Q400 lift, or is the elimination of 55 turboprops part of United's planned domestic capacity re
29 bhmdiversion : There is an employee conference call at 10am Central. That should be an interesting call...
30 Coronado : Delta, is agreeing to provide 30million in fresh cash DIP (Debtor in Possession) financing, but this is conditional on the courts effectively agreein
31 JBo : This explains why they haven't followed through with rebranding Colgan as Mesaba. Assuming UA owns the Q400s, I imagine they will find a new home. The
32 MountainFlyer : Why would they get rid of CR9s and keep CR2s? Aren't CR9s more profitable than the CR2s?
33 KingAir200 : Generally yes, but that would depend on the terms of the CPA they were flown under. At any rate, 9E owns the 16 ATL CR9s, while DL leases the 200s an
34 cbphoto : incorrect, RP currently operates a few of them out of DEN for F9! For how much longer is unknown, but they do operated them. Realistically RP could p
35 tjwgrr : I'm sure you mean CommutAir which operates the -200 & -300 varients, but not not the Q400. CommutAir would make sense since they operate both the
36 enilria : My question is whether DL will use this to extricate themselves from the Pinnacle 50 seater flying. I'm told the contract allows them to do that. The
37 LOWS : That would be nice, but whether or not that happens depends on OO's own financial problems right now.
38 EricR : I always believed that the Regional / Mainline carrier relationship placed too much risk on the regional carriers. Regional carriers bare all of the
39 JBo : I stand corrected. I thought the few remaining former Lynx Q400s had already been phased out. And yes Realistically RW/RAH could pick up the flying f
40 Flight152 : Commutair can't even reliably operate the aircraft they have, let a lone doubling their fleet and number of pilot domiciles. I don't see them taking
41 Coronado : As I understand it Delta leases from outside leasing companies virtually all of the 120+ CRJ-200 operated by Pinnacle, and in turn subleases them to
42 durangomac : Actually in a CPA scenario the mainline partner pays the regional a flat fee per hour and the mainline partner usually takes all the variable expense
43 bhmdiversion : As a highlight to the employee call - Menke began to cry when talking about his new raise. He said he didn't want his family to go through ANOTHER ban
44 flyPBA : I hear Westjet is looking for about 30 turboprops ...
45 toltommy : DL can't. DL owns the planes and subleases them to 9E. 9E can reject them, but they go back to the owner/lessor, which in this case is DL. Since DL h
46 Goldenshield : You know that scene at the end of The Lion King, where Scar gets taken out by the hyenas? That's what I'm imagining from what you're describing.
47 9lflyguy : With all the negativity in this thread, I think we have forgotten about the employees of Colgan who are now on the street. My thoughts go out to all m
48 PSU.DTW.SCE : This is correct. On the DL connection side, the former XJ and F8 CRJ-900s are all leased by DL with Pinnacle as the operating carrier. Same with the
49 apodino : I could say a lot about what this means for the crew members and hard working employees, but most of its already been said. The people I really feel b
50 ScottB : That's exactly what is happening. DIP financing gets superpriority over all other indebtedness, so Delta ensures that the amount of the existing prom
51 apodino : A Pilot forum stated that this was due to lake of 170/190 sim space for the pilots who would be displaced.
52 KingFriday013 : Real sad to see this turn into a train wreck (plane wreck?). Best of luck to all the crewmembers. I doubt there's any possibility of this happening...
53 Mir : There's got to be some context here that I'm not aware of - was he talking about personal bankruptcy or corporate bankruptcy? If it's the former, I'd
54 enilria : OK, I just blew my eyesight reading PNCL's 10K and it does appear that PNCL pays Delta a lease for the aircraft and then Delta reimburses PNCL for th
55 DashTrash : No. PDT being wholly owned will not by flying outside of the USAir system. The 400s are scoped out and the 200s went to South America in '07. Only 10
56 apodino : Frontier Airlines went into bankruptcy on his watch too if I remember correctly. It's funny, everyone on here thought that Menke would be a great thi
57 sonomaFlyer : This would be a golden opportunity for Alaska Air Group (aka Horizon) to pick up some of these Q400's. They've discussed lack of Q400's in their fleet
58 LAXintl : Announced this AM part of the BK, Pinnacle have inked a new 10-year contract with Delta. I'm sure details will trickle out...
59 F9Animal : What a POS! He should be ashamed to accept a raise, while hard working employees under him have been dumped on the street. He has officially earned h
60 PlanesNTrains : Interesting.... What do you propose he should have done differently to have saved Pinnacle, aside from doing it for less money? -Dave
61 Cubsrule : Let's keep this in perspective. $400,000 is what, $20 per employee? That money would not save many - if any - jobs.
62 airportugal310 : Ummm...ok? Classy...
63 gustywinds : Menke did not put Pinnacle into bankruptcy. Menke was hired because the Board of Directors knew Pinnacle would be going into bankruptcy and Menke had
64 Post contains images rdh3e : Below: UA/CO does not own the planes. Most would *I believe* go back to BBD should 9E liquidate or UA break the contract on grounds of breach. (BK is
65 Cubsrule : Yes, though that's on the longer-term horizon, as it would have to wait until after Pinnacle emerges.
66 LAXintl : Was reading some of the court filings. These guys are in pretty financially upside down with much of their operations. Regarding their contracts, one
67 rdh3e : Do you have a link to that document? I'd be very interested in reading it.
68 mariner : Republic has been saying for a long time that the Q400 is an expensive aircraft to operate - and was mostly shouted down for it here. mariner
69 LAXintl : Received the following draw down schedule for United flying. Aircraft in service at end of each month: Q400 April – 28 May – 25 June – 22 July
70 bhmdiversion : Ask and ye shall be rewarded: This is from the employee website (flypinnacle.com): This message is being sent to all company-provided email addresses,
71 nwaesc : Ick. Easy. On huge piles of cash...
72 crj200faguy : This may not be Menke's fault but why is he justifying his gigantic pay raise??
73 enilria : I have a bit of insider info on this whole situation. First, if you have read my stuff on the F9 board you know I've been critical of SM before, so I
74 PSU.DTW.SCE : The CRJ-200 air service agreement dates back to the NW days back when NW was adding the CRJs to the fleet before they own Ch. 11 filing. NW was order
75 rdh3e : Not at all unprecedented. UA signed a CRJ deal with OO in the early 00's that was through 2024. That's still on the books. So that deal was twice the
76 Mir : Probably not. But let's say he hadn't taken the money. You couldn't find a more cost-effective way of boosting employee morale than that. Instead, he
77 avek00 : Just as an FYI, although many commercial agreements include language allowing for termination in the event of a BK filing, that language is seldom en
78 rdh3e : Which is probably why they agreed on the wind down before the filing.[Edited 2012-04-02 14:06:02]
79 Post contains links cbphoto : http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/stor...2/pinnacle-bankruptcy.html?cmp=rss Looks like the Qs will stay with United, question is which regional will get
80 MountainFlyer : It still would hurt Bombardier because they potentially loose the sale of 30 brand new planes if 30 used ones hit the market and Westjet decided to p
81 sldispatcher : I think that is a smart move on United's part. Just because one regional hasn't seemed to be able to get them to work doesn't mean another one can't.
82 MountainFlyer : This is purely speculation on my part, but I would bet OO over AS/QX. For one, aside from a new type, OO has more ability to absorb that kind of grow
83 cbphoto : I would agree as well, I put a very good chance that OO gets these planes. Also, it has been a long standing rumor within Skywest that a Q400 trainin
84 FlyASAGuy2005 : Not quite. Most moden CPAs call for the mainline carrier to foot he fuel bill. I know that's how it's set upt DL with their carriers (those that are
85 n7371f : The word out of Export Canada/Crown Corp is that United already has the Q400 fleet lined up to go to another operator. Makes sense. UA just spent seve
86 flightopsguy : Colgan Saab service had become (in our experience) very unreliable out and back to IAD. We had four cancels last year back to IAD and either had to ta
87 MaverickM11 : Who in their right mind would parachute into 9E to fix it? And how much should they be paid?
88 FlyASAGuy2005 : I think you're making my point. He's no Jerry Grinstein or the other guy (the JAL CEO) and I get it now. He has no real vested interests in the compa
89 LAXintl : If the Q400s stick around with another UAX partner, that means someone else is willing to fly them at a rate lower than Pinnacle could. If United pull
90 MaverickM11 : I'm really not trying to make any point. I'm curious what people would be willing to pay for someone, anyone, to fix 9E.
91 usflyer msp : I am going to hypothesize that the DH4 flying is going to end up with Republic/Lynx. There is no way any carrier can get a DH4 program going from scra
92 FlyASAGuy2005 : Top dollar I would presume. The BOD is responsible to the investors and the investors don't want to see their $$ go down the toilet. Then again, the
93 CWAFlyer : Didn't Lynx surrender they operating certificate recently? Thought I read or heard that somewhere
94 XJET : I thought they did too. I think the Q400 was added to the RP certificate.
95 JBo : Lynx is gone, the Q400s are under the Republic (RW/YX) certificate (RP is Chautauqua).
96 Cubsrule : I'm not suggesting that it looks good - it doesn't. I'm simply suggesting that some perspective is in order. The question of what salary an executive
97 mdtrunner : What about the Saab flying out of IAH and IAD? That's a lot of routes.
98 Mir : Plenty. But only after the fact, not before. We're not talking about a salary, though. We're talking about a pay increase. Two very different things.
99 MaverickM11 : How do you get someone to sign up for that deal?
100 airportugal310 : I think the airline industry is best summed up with this simple phrase: "damned if you do, and damned if you don't" A vicious cycle, for sure. I have
101 Cubsrule : That's where we disagree. Sometimes, when things get bad, a company needs to keep its executives very badly and needs to give them raises to do so. A
102 Mir : That is generally how the world works. I hire someone to do something for me, I pay them a certain salary, and then once the job is done they get som
103 airportugal310 : I have to agree with you. When times get tough, and as I have seen all too often in the past 6 months, everyone starts to head for the door. Losing a
104 KaiGywer : I feel really bad for the XJ people who were told "Come to Colgan and you get full seniority, or come to Pinnacle and get nothing..."
105 boberito6589 : Does anyone think Silver Airways would be able to pick up enough airplanes and crew members fast enough to replace this flying?
106 MaverickM11 : I have no idea how the deal is structured but I'd assume the executives would get stock in the post bankruptcy company.
107 93Sierra : No way could silver airways come in, they are still new to operating the Saabs. The loss of yet another major turbo prop operator is weird.......in a
108 YNGguins : They are the only regional carrier to apply for the Pinnacle EAS service from Altoona and Johnstown, PA into IAD on a Saab... Check regulations.gov.
109 bhmdiversion : There has been some grumblings about Silver taking these over within their ranks. It was specualtion to their pilot group, but there was some pre-wor
110 Post contains images enilria : I have heard that what happened is that the DL deal has an adjustment clause for cost increases and it kicks in every few years. It's in the 10K. The
111 RyanairGuru : Other than the PA EAS, can anyone tell me what routes UA use the Saab on out of IAH and IAD? Thanks
112 F9Animal : Easy... There are plenty of much more qualified execs out in this big world that would take Menkes $250,000 salary. Plenty of executives out of work
113 Cubsrule : But again, I wasn't making any point about Menke specifically. I was critiquing the notion that it's never acceptable to give an executive a raise du
114 LOWS : IAD-MGW-CKB-MGW-IAD comes to mind. Also on EAS.
115 KCZG : Out of IAD the SF3s are flying to BGM, ABE, SCE, HPN, CHO, CRW, AOO, JST, SHD, CKB, and MGW.
116 Post contains images F9Animal : Sorry bud, I was not disagreeing with you. I was just adding to it, and started writing a darned book. Lol! No, I agree with you bud!
117 norcal : It has nothing to do with the aircraft and everything to do with the contract that Colgan agreed to fly them under. They low balled it and because of
118 Post contains images rdh3e : It means the opposite. Pinnacle actually stated that they wanted to walk away from the contract. UA would prob try to move the aircraft because they
119 FRNT787 : It was expensive when they operated 11. The costs associated with the airplane have been quite higher than was anticipated when it was purchased.
120 Post contains images MaverickM11 : They've got so much leverage!
121 apodino : My question is, would SkyWest actually take on the Q400 contract? Much of the Q400 flying is in EWR and historically SkyWest has never had a crew base
122 FRNT787 : BB has never had a problem with making money. The contract would have to be right though. If the contract is right, you better believe he would like
123 rdh3e : What makes you think they really want to be in the business of flying? There is a reason they are the most stable of the regional partners financiall
124 enilria : I don't know how people define high. The CASM is about 35% lower than a CR7 or E170 at stages under 600 miles. I don't know how that qualifies as hig
125 Mir : If the executives oversaw the descent into bad times in the first place, there is no need to reward them for such - in fact, it would be counterprodu
126 apodino : That is very true...but the problem is the ground handling operation only makes up about 11 percent of Air Wiscosin's revenue, with the other 89 perc
127 Cubsrule : Agreed. But consider this scenario (which happens from time to time): things are bad, and the company brings in a new executive in hopes of keeping t
128 FRNT787 : Not in every case. At Frontier/Republic, even when they had 11 of them, that was not the case. The maintenance, from what I have seen and heard out o
129 Goldenshield : What financial woes? Their knees just got scraped; the legs didn't fall off.
130 F9Animal : If this is the scenario that Menke faced, I have to throw a penalty flag. Menke knew the minute he walked into Pinnacle, he was going to file bankrup
131 Post contains links rdh3e : You're paranoid. This is laughable. 400k is not "fattening your wallet" as a CEO. That's next to nothing for the amount of garbage that comes his way
132 bjorn14 : Yep, sure did thanks for the correction.
133 Cubsrule : Was he colluding with the credit card processing company whose holdback change caused the filing?
134 Mir : Offer them a nice pay increase, to be delivered when the company is solvent again. Until then, they stay on the same salary they've been taking. And
135 apodino : No...but I am not convinced that the ASA/Expressjet integration is causing all the losses based on their financials and their own statements, and tho
136 Cubsrule : But how is that a bad thing? Bankruptcy sucks. The only individuals who benefit from bankruptcy are the lawyers. Except for those who feel a very hig
137 Mir : You want someone with, as you put it: If your management isn't loyal to the company, but only loyal to the paychecks they get, then their loss will n
138 Cubsrule : How can you make that statement categorically? Money makes the world go round. Sometimes, a mercenary with a certain skill set is what you need. Othe
139 PHX787 : The unions have got to be careful not to do anything stupid that would drive the airline into the dust. That's why BK is a very tumultuous time for e
140 enilria : I can't find the Lynx Q400 filings, but if you look at QX which had both aircraft (Cr7 and Q400) you will see that the fuel savings is much greater t
141 FRNT787 : I don't doubt it is cheaper. But, it is not as dramatically cheaper as many believe. What I most often hear is that costs are higher than expected, a
142 F9Animal : I highly suspect he or someone directed by him did. It was so well played. It may not seem big to you, but that is a huge increase for a CEO of a reg
143 Cubsrule : Besides your suspicion, what evidence do you have?
144 mariner : No. mariner
145 F9Animal : Evidence is something that is in Pinnacles corp offices, which I don't have access to. Hopefully an investigator will uncover it. These guys are good
146 bennett123 : I do not doubt that you have a hunch on this. Based on your experience, (which I can not prove, but am not doubting) I expect that you are probably ri
147 FlyASAGuy2005 : For a guy that has to take a job at a regional carrier it is.. But hey, for us peasants that have to work 5 days a week plus OT to make a decent livi
148 F9Animal : I am sure agencies in the federal government could. I wish I could! I would never throw such an allegation if I did not suspect it. Most of the inves
149 suisjes : And the CFO of Delta just gave up his position is there some kinda of relevance? This was not cooked up in a basement of some south atlanta house, th
150 FRNT787 : Was there a quoting error? I am not sure what I said that you are responding to. I was talking about Q400 costs.
151 norcal : 11 is still too small of a fleet for how Lynx operated them. They had an entirely separate management structure for Lynx. Those costs needed to be sp
152 enilria : The bigger issue is customer aversion toward turboprops, but just because it is more expensive than it was supposed to be does not make it a "high co
153 Post contains images enilria : Agreed. If they had gotten some CPA agreement for the plane with others they would have gotten proper economies of scale.
154 F9Animal : I am not asking anyone to buy anything. However, you suspect wrong doing back at Western Pacific? Which I find very interesting. Criminals don't chan
155 Mir : Not in the airline industry. There is no way that an airline could ever compete with other industries in terms of cushy executive jobs. Either the pa
156 norcal : Either that or used Frontier management to run the operation. No need for Lynx to have separate management structure. TSH does a similar thing with T
157 Post contains images Cubsrule : Say what you like about the employee relations side of the TSA/GoJet saga (and there's a lot to be said there), but as far as administration, TSH han
158 FRNT787 : Which was a prime cited reason BB had for replacing the Q400 with E190s. At RAH, the E190s have similar CASM, with more revenue potential, and signif
159 JA : Are the Q400s leased/owned by Pinnacle or UA?
160 enilria : I can tell you that the reason they did what they did is that they didn't want FAPA making a claim to represent Lynx pilots so they thought it needed
161 rdh3e : Reply 45 & 64:
162 mariner : Sorry F9, the reason there are so many familiar faces around is because there is a limited pool of talent. What Enilria says is true - SM was at West
163 bjorn14 : IIRC they ordered some but never took delivery because of the financial crisis. I think ATRs are a better choice for inter island flying.
164 flashmeister : I do recall that Wexford made a play to provide DIP financing to Westpac in Chapter 11 in an attempt to get control of Westpac assets over to F9. Thi
165 Post contains links mariner : Originally, it was intended that Lynx should grow. There was an initial order of 10 plus 10 options, and one of those options was exercised. I don't
166 F9Animal : Yes, F9 did repay the loan. I think F9 also was one of the first to pay back the 9/11 loan. As for Westpac, I am almost certain Wexford was involved.
167 mcg : I must say, that's the craziest thing I've ever seen on Anet, ever. Think about it, you are claiming that SM went to First Data and got them to deman
168 FRNT787 : I would assume many of them. It would depend on how many furlough crews each group has (and this I do not know.)
169 FlyASAGuy2005 : Blah blah blah. We get that you defend it. This comment below really boggled my mind Let's try this on for size... based your your logic, airlines sh
170 enilria : Again, I do not think SM is a crook as you do. I consider what I am about to say as completely unrelated to PNCL, but you can add it to your knowledg
171 rdh3e : Much of an airlines workforce (including my job) is "skilled" labor, but can be easily replaced. Does it suck when we look up from the gutters, yes i
172 Mir : Not relevant. Even if it did represent a cost savings, the same executives who took a company into bankruptcy should not be getting a pay increase wh
173 rdh3e : Didn't we already establish that SM wasn't responsible for the BK? And that it's quite possible that the BK filing was completely unavoidable? And th
174 Mir : We have no way of knowing that for sure. That's possible, but it doesn't mean that the executives deserve pay raises during the process. -Mir
175 mariner : Whoa - I don't consider SM to be a crook. mariner
176 MaverickM11 : How could SM be responsible for 9E's BK? He's only been there a couple months.
177 Mir : He's the CEO. You know, the whole "the buck stops here" deal. Don't want to be responsible for what happens to the company? Don't be the CEO. It's tr
178 flashmeister : You've got a few things mixed up in here, most notably the order of the merger and the hub move. Westpac's hub at DEN opened on June 29, 1997. The me
179 n7371f : Not to make this more about Frontier and less about Pinnacle but here's what I can add... The merger initiated at WestPac. Frontier didn't want it -
180 PlanesNTrains : Well, honestly I think it's like the pot calling the kettle black, but hey - it's an election year. I'm not sure what kind of CEO would take this job
181 mariner : Equally, he has a certain experience that not many airline CEO's do have - or at least, CEO's available to Pinnacle - he has experience of guiding a
182 Mir : I never said anything about reducing his wages. -Mir
183 bjorn14 : I'm just curious if SM saw the books before he took the Pinnacle job. That would answer a lot of questions.
184 mariner : I'm sure he would have seen large parts of the books, but - I assume - there are things he did not see until he became an officer of the corporation
185 STT757 : Much of the Q400 flying for UA is now pretty evenly split between EWR, IAD and IAH. I hope they can get someone to pick up the flying for them, it's
186 F9Animal : You are correct. Public companies are leading the way to honesty, integrity, and wholesome law abiding truths. I mean, Fannie May, Enron, Freddie Mac
187 Goldenshield : *Cough* Johnathan Ornstien *Cough*
188 Post contains links Mir : Pinnacle is now saying that it will be relying primarily on 50-seat RJs to get it through bankruptcy. http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...ws%2Favd%
189 FlyASAGuy2005 : I'm not sure what to say about this. So basically DL has them by the balls due to the DIP financiang and won't be making much money off the ATL based
190 LOWS : Are you all trying to get sued for libel?
191 PlanesNTrains : Well, I felt you were implying that he should earn "something" - but not the salary he was getting. That would imply to me a reduced wage. I will say
192 F9Animal : Dave, if you are referring to my comments, I am sorry you feel they are disgusting or inflammatory. I can however stick to my guns, and I have every
193 PlanesNTrains : It's not your opinion of him that bothers me, it's the lengths you go to in expressing your opinion. Flight attendent urine in his cup? I mean, if th
194 Mir : If you take another look at my posts (particularly the one that you quoted), you'll see that all I was asking is that he not get the raise - whatever
195 Goldenshield : It's not libel if it's true.
196 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : umm... LOL Do people not use Google?
197 F9Animal : Oops! I forgot about that one! Think I was steaming pretty bad when I wrote that one out. Plus, I admit!! I had oral surgery that day, and I was unde
198 GEG2RAP : Any news on who got the q400 contract? thanks
199 Post contains images enilria : I wasn't referring to you. You know who I was talking about. I know for a fact from people who were involved that WestPac moved to DEN in anticipatio
200 bhmdiversion : Did anyone else see that American Eagle / Eagle Ground Services will be ground handling some of the old Coolgan stations?
201 Post contains images mariner : I have no reason not to trust you because I am aware of what happened and gave the basis of it in post #184 - without wanting to reveal any sources:
202 Coronado : I think the announcement of Sean Menke's resignation from Pinnacle this morning should be tagged on to this thread. Perhaps he did not enjoy the criti
203 Post contains images enilria : What's my batting average up to now?
204 bhmdiversion : Maybe he is trying to escape MEM without being seen!
205 bjorn14 : I don't blame him..I finally did after 4 years of college.
206 F9Animal : I knew it! I took some heat for it, but I stand by what I said. He is no doubt dirty. I bet the pressure of the employees led to this. Plus, I am sure
207 mariner : How does this make him "dirty"? mariner
208 Post contains links F9Animal : He will follow the likes of....... Drum roll....... http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/n...cer-guilty-of-fraud.html?ana=yfcpc It will come out eventu
209 mariner : Anything is possible, I suppose, but presently, there is zero evidence of that ands unless you can provide some I think it is quite wrong to suggest
210 F9Animal : You know I highly respect you, and I always value your opinions. True, I don't have evidence. But, I have investigated criminal theft for years, and
211 mariner : It isn't the first time it - or something similar - has happened. When Republic bought Frontier they offered Menke a job, and a very good one - but no
212 mariner : I'm sorry, if you have no evidence, I don't think you suggest it or imply it. Pinnacle was a financial mess, which is why people - the staff - are co
213 Post contains images LOWS : In some jurisdictions, suggesting that could be considered defamation of his professional character, without any supporting evidence. Especially sinc
214 bjorn14 : Reminds me of the Democrat Senator who once said, "There is no evidence of any wrongdoing but we have to investigate anyway"
215 Post contains links SA7700 : As this thread has become quite long and slow to load for some users, it will be locked for further discussion. Please feel free to join part 2 of the
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