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Vietnam Airlines Plans LAX Service  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24834 posts, RR: 46
Posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9833 times:

While we have heard this before, and VN has even previously filed for approval with the DOT, in the below article about VN wishing to grow into a decent seized Asian network carrier, the CEO is quoted that they intend to launch service to US, with Los Angeles being the initial destination following FAA audit.

The FAA audit which is scheduled for later this year follows up on 2007 and 2008 ICAO and FAA audits which found shortcomings the Vietnamese government CAA safety oversight.

I suppose if they get a green light, we could have VN crossing the Pacific by early 2013 and surely be a welcome option for the huge Vietnamese diaspora.

Story:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gener...e%20Network%20Carrier&channel=awst

=


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30565 posts, RR: 84
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9814 times:
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Does UA still operate their connecting service?

User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7497 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9813 times:

Large market obviously, but I have my doubts. The yields would be in the toilet.


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User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24834 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9747 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Does UA still operate their connecting service?

Yes there is the daily HKG-SGN tag.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Large market obviously, but I have my doubts. The yields would be in the toilet.

True, but really not much different then places like the Philippines. Anyhow, don't forget VN probably has a rather low cost base, while it has for decades now run long-haul services to Europe.

A US flight would likely get a mix of ethnic travelers, growing tourism, and a bit of business folks especially with the Skyteam membership.

I don't see it being too bad.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineStratacruiser From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9729 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Does UA still operate their connecting service?

Yes, albeit downgauged to a 737-800.

Dave


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30565 posts, RR: 84
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9715 times:
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Quoting Stratacruiser (Reply 4):
Yes, albeit downgauged to a 737-800.

From the original 747-400? *woof*


Well, the 787-9 and A350-900 should give WN some flexibility or long-haul mission planning.

[Edited 2012-04-02 08:09:07]

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26370 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9648 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Does UA still operate their connecting service?

UA does, but it reverted to SFO when the LAX-HKG flight was CX'ed again. I'm interested to see if one of the PMCO 772ERs is put on LAX-HKG.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):

Yes there is the daily HKG-SGN tag.

I wouldn't call it a tag anymore. Its a domestic 738, not an IPTE 744.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):

From the original 747-400? *woof*

Yeah, I flew the 744 to and from Saigon last year. Its really nice to be on that plane for the short flight in C after the long flight across the Pacific, and also due to the early departure of the outbound.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinerdh3e From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1604 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9564 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
True, but really not much different then places like the Philippines.

Exactly, so if precedent is any guide, PR changing to a one stop instead of a non-stop on MNL-LAX should be a decent indicator that those routes are not the best place to make money.


User currently offlinesq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1633 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9510 times:

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 7):

Exactly, so if precedent is any guide, PR changing to a one stop instead of a non-stop on MNL-LAX should be a decent indicator that those routes are not the best place to make money.

They only do a stop on the way back from LAX, and that's due to the 744 being unable to do it non-stop. If and when they can put their 77W on the route, I think it will go non-stop.



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24834 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9496 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
I wouldn't call it a tag anymore. Its a domestic 738, not an IPTE 744.

Sure its a tag in the classic sense. You have an airplane waiting to continue the short hop. Very much like how PA/TW did back in the day in Europe.

Anyhow, the ability to rightsize to a 738 has improved the flights performance and now not be forced to operate a costly 744 on the short segment.

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 7):
Exactly, so if precedent is any guide, PR changing to a one stop instead of a non-stop on MNL-LAX should be a decent indicator that those routes are not the best place to make money.

1-stop ?? PR only stops for fuel, as they cant make it nonstop much of the year due payload/wind issues.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinerdh3e From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1604 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9346 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
1-stop ?? PR only stops for fuel, as they cant make it nonstop much of the year due payload/wind issues.
Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 8):
They only do a stop on the way back from LAX, and that's due to the 744 being unable to do it non-stop. If and when they can put their 77W on the route, I think it will go non-stop.

Apologies, I think I'm thinking of the TG flight BKK-LAX..... Sorry 'bout that. But I suppose the analogy still stands.


User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8496 posts, RR: 55
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8828 times:
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Plenty of traffic here, yields will be poor but with the low cost base VN has, they should do ok, never going to be a gold mine of a route though.


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User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8657 times:

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 11):

Plenty of traffic here, yields will be poor but with the low cost base VN has, they should do ok, never going to be a gold mine of a route though.

On such a long haul flight, the cost base of crew only matters marginally. It's lopsidedly dominated by oil and equipment type.


User currently offlinevin2basketball From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8534 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 12):
mogandoCI From United States of America, joined Jun 2009, 1608 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted Mon Apr 2 2012 16:33:38 your local time (39 minutes 50 secs ago) and read 119 times:

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 11):

Plenty of traffic here, yields will be poor but with the low cost base VN has, they should do ok, never going to be a gold mine of a route though.

On such a long haul flight, the cost base of crew only matters marginally. It's lopsidedly dominated by oil and equipment type.


Fuel typically breaks down to 45-55% of the flight hour costs, crew costs are actually a solid 15-18%.

But either way, VN with the 787-9 could probably make it work at the right config (9 abreast 280-300 seats, small J)


User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6496 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8517 times:

It sounds very promising; let's make sure they get to Cat I first and then we'll see when they'll start.

I guess they propose to start service with a 787 ?

Just a bit skeptical since we've been thru this so many times already.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly....CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlinerogercamel From Singapore, joined Feb 2012, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7415 times:

The route will probably work - it will almost certainly alternate between SGN and HAN to start with (as the European flights do at the moment).

Quoting The777Man (Reply 14):
I guess they propose to start service with a 787 ?

Unlikely I'd think - delivery only in 2015 - I'd have thought they'd start with their existing equipment (i.e. 777s) to get the route growing.

VN has a very established network in Vietnam, and a loyal population who I imagine will prefer VN to alternatives. But - both HAN and SGN as airports will struggle to attract much other than O&D and domestic transfers for the next few years. At SGN you have to re-check in onto VN domestic after intl arrival. Also - both airports have terminal capacity problems. Earlier this year I flew out of HAN in their mid-morning intl bank - an unpleasant experience. The early morning domestic departures at SGN are also memorable for the wrong reasons. I imagine that alternatives of SIN, BKK and HKG will remain preferential status for a while to come.

Nevertheless, the Japanese are funding a new terminal at HAN, and there is a whole new airport planned for SGN with a planned capacity of 100 million pax annually (history will show if that happens)


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12890 posts, RR: 100
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6518 times:
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I'm curious, how much J class demand is there to SGN? On one hand, I want to see 'more fragmentation' at my home airport (LAX). On the other, it pains me to see service launched that isn't well thought out. With connections through ICN, PVG, and other international airports, I doubt Y yield will be great. So the question is, what is the J demand to SGN from the USA?

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
Well, the 787-9 and A350-900 should give WN some flexibility or long-haul mission planning.

IMHO, this is a great route to try with the 789. Partially as the type could be routed elsewhere rapidly with good economics (vs. the A345).

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinebrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6458 times:

VN is probably going to start flights to India soon. I believe that the bilaterals were signed as India has opened that route for its airlines. VN could get a decent load to and from India to LAX.

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7204 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6400 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
I suppose if they get a green light, we could have VN crossing the Pacific by early 2013 and surely be a welcome option for the huge Vietnamese diaspora.

What's the distance between LAX and the airports in Vietnam? What sort of aircraft will be employed? (I'm assuming the triple7) and How does everybody think that these flights will do when it comes to load factor?



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24834 posts, RR: 46
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6325 times:

Dont know about J class, however the total demand to Vietnam from SoCal (incl San Diego) is almost 1,000/day !
Its an amazingly large market without its own service that must flow via variety of other airline hubs today.

SGN is far the more preferred destination over Hanoi, which makes sense most of the emigres came to the US from South Vietnam.

Back to J class, whatever it is, over time certainly this will grow as Vietnams industrial sector and trade continues to flurish. Additionally if they manage to develop into a broader Far-East network carrier VN should be able to offer viable connections also. Skyteam membership will also help to some degree.

As far as possible routings, bilateral allows VN to utilize options via Taiwan or Japan(except Tokyo) if they desire a stop on US services.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinerogercamel From Singapore, joined Feb 2012, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5862 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 16):
I'm curious, how much J class demand is there to SGN?

Probably not much in the next few years - the VN flights I've taken (admitedly all short haul up to 2 hours) have all had heavy Y loads, but light J even within the small number of seats. The aircraft are not exactly configured with high premium loads in mind.


User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2067 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4434 times:

Quoting rogercamel (Reply 15):
VN has a very established network in Vietnam, and a loyal population who I imagine will prefer VN to alternatives.

VN is a State Own airline. Many Vietnamese Expatriates hates the VN government and would not fly it unless they have to. The younger generation don't really care. For both cases, it would probably comes down to cost.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
Dont know about J class, however the total demand to Vietnam from SoCal (incl San Diego) is almost 1,000/day !
Its an amazingly large market without its own service that must flow via variety of other airline hubs today.

I live in the Seattle area, and wouldn't mind flying to the Bay or So. Cal for a direct connection to Vietnam. It beats an 8 hr lay over in Seoul on the return trip. This would also be nice because we have relatives in Cal where we can visit prior or after our trip.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 19):
SGN is far the more preferred destination over Hanoi, which makes sense most of the emigres came to the US from South Vietnam.

This is very true. But from a pure travel stand-point, Hanoi is a much more relaxing port of entry than the Saigon. If you have lots of luggage and are visiting relatives, then Saigon is preferred. If you are traveling light and is there for pleasure, then Hanoi is a great place to start, specially if you want to reduce the temperature shock.   

bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlinegdg9 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4237 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18):
What's the distance between LAX and the airports in Vietnam?

LAX-SGN is 8,169 miles.
http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sgn-lax


User currently offlinesq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1633 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4089 times:

Quoting gdg9 (Reply 22):
LAX-SGN is 8,169 miles.

So a direct flight is impossible with any of their current aircraft, right?



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30565 posts, RR: 84
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3905 times:
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Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 23):
So a direct flight is impossible with any of their current aircraft, right?
LAX-SGN with ETOPS-180 is 7098nm per GCM, so it can be done with their 777-200ERs, though they will take a payload penalty.

[Edited 2012-04-03 08:58:33]

25 Trucker : So why not fly to HNL and work out a deal with HA for the rest of the trip to the mainland?
26 Post contains images bikerthai : Unfortunately I can only afford one vacation and HNL deserves a separate trip by itself The thing about traveling domestic prior to departure is the
27 sunrisevalley : LAX-BKK takes something over 17hrs for a TG A345. Airways distance is about 7400nm. LAX-SGN is only 100nm less. So it seems to me it will present a ch
28 PHX787 : I read somewhere that VN is considering getting some 77L's? whatever happened to those rumors?
29 mogandoCI : If anything, I'm betting that VN is doing 1-stop SGN-XYZ-LAX, not a nonstop.
30 Post contains links and images Caryjack : Yes we have but the rumors are trending positive. Vietnam Al In Talks For A380s. (by FCKC Oct 30 2009 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=4593918&searchi
31 Post contains images sq_ek_freak : Ah so for now it seems like if they did start flights it'd have to be a one stop. How quickly can they get their hands on a 77L? I can think of a carr
32 mogandoCI : It's not the aircraft type, but whether at $100/barrel oil can ULH make any money, let alone to SGN. If BKK can't work, it'd be hard to imagine how S
33 Stitch : Probably not very quickly. Looking at VN's current hard product, they could fit 24 Business Class and 48 Economy Class between Door 1 and Door 2. Tha
34 Viscount724 : Legally it has to be a tag, linked to a transpacific UA flight, just like DL's change-of-gauge tags operated by 757s between NRT and various points i
35 mogandoCI : I thought both UA and DL have 5th freedom rights on those intra-Asia flights ?
36 Viscount724 : Yes they have 5th freedom rights but not 7th freedom which they would need to operate stand-alone flights with no connection to a flight originating/
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